AndyW Posted June 3, 2008 Posted June 3, 2008 What I think is kind of amusing is the question in its self. I think most people are fairly decent overall. Does that mean I can be in a relationship with them, no. Women are great. Beauitiful and smart. Are all women decent, no. Nor are all men. We choose who we decide to be with and go after though. You are never forced to go out with someone. I have gone after two attractive women in the past 4 years. Both were my choice. They were both intelligent, sexy, funny, out going, well put together. But I know they were both High M before I ever went out with them. I know they were both materlistic before I went out with them. I know they were both selfish before I went out with them. Sure I can complain about them but at the end of the day I am the idiot that choose to be with both these women. Maybe some guy won't mind the fact they only care about them selves and they aren't that loyal. Maybe some guy will just give them what they want and he will be okay with that. I am not that guy. Maybe some guy will want to pay and deal with that trophy. My point is I can't say they weren't decent. For me they weren't decent but I know I ignored all the important details early on. I only looked at the outside package which only gets you thru the short term. The inside is what relationships are built on and why they last. I got the outside and it would never last because I am very different then the partners I choose on the inside. I am 32, I have learned my lesson. It was all my doing and all my fault. But I still love women. I don't think they are all evil, money sucking creatures, selfish creatures. As a good man I just need to choose wiser. I need to stop only looking at the outside package and look deeper before I fall in love with the shell that is empty. My bad! Now of course I want to find someone I am attracted to now but I am going to pay a lot more attention to the smaller things. Does she have to carry a $4000 bag to feel okay about herself. Does she have $50k in shoes. Is she covered in diamonds. I am going to listen to the things she says about past relationships. I am going to take my head out of my ass basically. I don't want another selfish women who only cares about herself. I don't need a women to cook, clean, and do whatever unless that is what she wants. I want an intelligent, sexy, fun, caring, loyal, partner. Someone who is supportive and positive and I will give the same in return. We choose who we want to be with. Often times as a guy I ignore all the bull****, bad idea. At the end of the day if you have had bad luck with women look in the mirror. That is what I am doing!
serial muse Posted June 3, 2008 Posted June 3, 2008 It is only ironic to you because you are assuming too much. I fall into neither category I have neither had it rough nor been particularily unlucky. I am complaining about a general stereo type that any individual is free to break at any time. You are attacking an individual because of his personal opinion. * I am not in my 30's if I was I'd have more cause to be content with my life the way it is. Address people with civility and you'd be surprised to find they respond in a similar way. Start off a conversation by insulting people, and they're not inclined to be sympathetic to you. That's life, friend. Learn it, live it, love it. Dunno what you think I'm assuming; I've read your posts and the whiny sense of entitlement in there about how women aren't giving you what you want, which apparently means they suck. This is not a "stereotype"; as you say, it is your personal opinion. So here's mine: I think you have a lot of growing up to do. Perhaps lesson number one is how to treat people with respect, if that's what you'd like in return. Nobody owes you anything, including love. You earn these things by being respectful, and by being loving.
Mustang Sally Posted June 3, 2008 Posted June 3, 2008 MM - Please tell us about your relationship(s), as Kasan has suggested. Maybe you will glean more meaning from the feedback you receive at this site if you share some specific experiences (rather than vague generalisations)? Just a thought. I know it has worked better for me in the past when I took the time to post my own story... Peace.
EnigmaXOXO Posted June 3, 2008 Posted June 3, 2008 That was a GREAT read ... and spot-on. Thanks so much for sharing that article with the rest of us, t_veron!
Taramere Posted June 3, 2008 Posted June 3, 2008 I just wanted to see if anyone on this forum would be willing to accept atleast a little bit of fault. Why would a bunch of strangers accept blame for your problem? The men I care about and encounter in my day to day life aren't worthless, horrible, self-centred creatures...and I don't get any sense that they regard me as a worthless horrible, selfish creature. They're normal, likeable people who care about their friends - and whose friends care about them. I'm willing to bet that that's the real life experience of the opposite sex that most other people on this forum can relate to...notwithstanding the negative thinking and desire to vent that romantic disappointments sometimes draws people into. Apparently it's not an experience you share though. In your experience, women are people you just can't get along with - and it's probably comforting to find other men who feel the same way. Comforting to think that men who do have positive, affectionate relationships with women only do so because they've in some way sacrificed their manhood - rather than because they have the desire and the ability to be happy.
Author MaxManwell Posted June 3, 2008 Author Posted June 3, 2008 MM - Please tell us about your relationship(s), as Kasan has suggested. Maybe you will glean more meaning from the feedback you receive at this site if you share some specific experiences (rather than vague generalisations)? Just a thought. I know it has worked better for me in the past when I took the time to post my own story... Peace. Sorry, I thought I had made it clear that I have never had a relationship.
nittygritty Posted June 3, 2008 Posted June 3, 2008 I agree with you but the problem with men such as yourself is that you try to negotiate with feminism and you try to meet them halfway but that will not work. Feminists know exactly what they are doing and equality is not their aim. Men deliver a crsushing blow to feminism today if we all did it together but I am placing any bets on that happening. We need to treat feminists like the enemy to our gender that they are. Your posts come across as a man begging for mercy and women will sense that and go in for the kill. Oh Woggle, Your daughters are sooo going to have you singing a different tune someday. :)
The Collector Posted June 3, 2008 Posted June 3, 2008 In needing to control an entire gender, smacks of fear of the unknown. It's akin to racism. I'd say women are far more guilty of trying to control men than vice versa.
dreamergrl Posted June 3, 2008 Posted June 3, 2008 Sorry, I thought I had made it clear that I have never had a relationship. No you have, a relationship doesn't have to be the bf/gf type. The relationships you have had are paid sexual encounters with other women. Now you've grown accustomed to having women wait on your needs, and what you don't seem to understand is that healthy relationships aren't based just on your needs. It's not a take all and give nothing situation. You have unrealistic views on women now - that will never get you anywhere in a significant relationship. You'll be doomed to be paying out to have a short term fulfillment - and it will be nothing more then that. You created your situation, if you want it changed, do something about it YOURSELF and don't blame others.
Mustang Sally Posted June 3, 2008 Posted June 3, 2008 Sorry, I thought I had made it clear that I have never had a relationship. Ok. Sorry - my mistake. How about your experiences in pursuing relationships? You allude to the fact that you have, at least, pursued relationships in the past, only to be left out, holding your....well, you know what you alluded to in the past. Tell us some specifics about these failed relationships, if you please. I'm just struggling to see how one would be unable to find anyone out there to have some sort of relationship with...? Seriously. There are all kinds of people out there...covering both ends of the spectrum (and everything in between), having relationships with other people, and finding it satisfactory. My goodness - even a plain jane like ME was able to find guys to date, have sex with, and eventually marry one and raise a family. You know? Tell us more about your personal experiences.
Kasan Posted June 3, 2008 Posted June 3, 2008 Sorry, I thought I had made it clear that I have never had a relationship. Then how have you formed your opinions about women if you have never had a relationship?
dreamergrl Posted June 3, 2008 Posted June 3, 2008 Then how have you formed your opinions about women if you have never had a relationship? Read post 59
Trialbyfire Posted June 3, 2008 Posted June 3, 2008 OP, does your concept of relationships come from historical exposure to women and relationships, such as your parents? Were they traditional role models? Was your mother submissive? What was your relationship with your parents like?
Untouchable_Fire Posted June 3, 2008 Posted June 3, 2008 It wont happen because his basis of a relationship is paying prostitutes for sex. His view is the way it is because he's used to "getting what he pays for". He doesn't have to have a personality with these women. They just have to do as he pleases. From a male perspective, here is what MM is dealing with. It's obvious that early on he had some kind of impediment when dealing with girls. Typically this amounts to something that prevents him from developing confidence, and making him feel rejected. Sometimes this is a personality issue, sometimes its simply a lack of physically attractive features. So, he feels rejected by women in general... but... finds that some will trade money for sex. The combination of those two allows him to easily objectify women. The anger from rejection and the loss of respect from those willing to sell themselves as a commodity. It's sad... and very fixable, but most wont take the steps to do so.
Tomcat33 Posted June 3, 2008 Posted June 3, 2008 Max I know it is difficult to reach out and ask for help, but if you want people on your side you need to revamp your approach. This thread is a joke with grown adults getting into tit for tat about what is wrong with men and women... if you feel like venting and just want to bash women then continue on in engaging in the battle of the twits about who is more selfish men or women, now if you are SERIOUS about wanting to leave your current life behind to start a more healthy and productive life with women here is my advice to you: - stop living vicariously through the words of others, if you have NO experience you can't really form an educated opinion SORRY - being rejected a couple of times is NOT having experience. - go out there and get your OWN experience, bumping your head trying to ask a few women out and failing is not experience you keep trying until one girl takes you up on your advances you don't need 20 women to accept your invitation to date you only need ONE - and for goodness sake STOP with the quick fixes with prostitutes if you ARE SERIOUS about making a change then CHANGE the habit that is bringing you doubt and stick to it - if you can't do it alone GET HELP use the money to get help and see it as an investment for your future, a happier future - get to know a woman and LET HER GET TO KNOW YOU even if she is NOT perfect experience what it is like to let someone IN - learn to deal with rejection like WE ALL HAVE men AND women you are not anymore special than any one of us are so WHY should your life be spared from rejection or pain? NO ONE'S life is, so get used to it this is life THAT is what maturing is all about - stop going for the easy fix and paying women to show you interest and work your butt off to have a normal rel with a normal woman the more experience you gain the better you will become at getting selective and getting what you need - learn to GIVE in order to get and don't get so discouraged if things don't turn out as you expected, you have to be willing to LOSE to win. Love is about making yourself vulnerable to someone else if you keep walls up and you protect yourself so much from everyone else you will die a lonely soldier surrounded by a big brick wall, but if you tear some of those walls down you might just end up with the right company who will love you and make you feel very wanted - STOP FEELING SORRY FOR YOURSELF because I am sure you have a LOT to offer and there is a woman out there who has a LOT to give you it is your duty to get out there and find her, just as you go out and find work to fulfill your financial needs you don't sit around at home going "oh there's a knock at the door, must be the money...." YOU WISH!! WE ALL WISH but life doesn't work that way go out and find the right woman to fulfill your emotional and physical needs and EXPECT to bang your head against the wall plenty times before you find her - be willing to take some pain in order get again, life without pain is a life NOT LIVED you are not living my friend! - If you were a drug addict I would tell you the exact same thing, you cannot be a social cocaine user while you are trying to quit cocaine and lead a clean life, you either WANT cocaine in your life or you don't you are an addict and you have proven that your addiction controls your life moods and thoughts, so you either kick it or accept your life JUST AS IT IS. Change doesn't happen magically and via blaming others for the unfairness of your situation life IS unfair if you can accept that then maybe there is hope for a better future for you. if none of this makes sense to you then quit your winging and call up one of your high end ladies of the night and keep your life EXACTLY as it is. no one is not going to support you in your decision if that fulfills you then all the best to you. Who are any of us to judge? But we all know it doesn't truly fulfill you or else you would not be questioning if there is a "little more" to life than this But a person that complains and does NOTHING to improve a situation is not a person who is SERIOUS about making a change Lastly I can appreciate your confusion, but consider this: A person that does not know what they want is a person that does not want what they have.
Woggle Posted June 3, 2008 Posted June 3, 2008 This true that I might rip on women sometimes but I don't believe in rigid gender roles. I just wish women would be held accountable more and everything wasn't always blamed on the man. Women claim to be just as strong as men but then bring out the tears and play the victim card when things don't go their way or they have to face the music. The lack of accountability and entitlement mentality in many modern women does not make for healthy relationships. When I speak against feminism I am not speaking against equality but against the hate movement that feminism has become. It is just a logical for a man to oppose feminism as it is for a blackman to oppose the KKK or a jew to oppose the Nazis. It is perfectly rational to be against what is against you.
Kasan Posted June 3, 2008 Posted June 3, 2008 This true that I might rip on women sometimes but I don't believe in rigid gender roles. I just wish women would be held accountable more and everything wasn't always blamed on the man. Women claim to be just as strong as men but then bring out the tears and play the victim card when things don't go their way or they have to face the music. The lack of accountability and entitlement mentality in many modern women does not make for healthy relationships. When I speak against feminism I am not speaking against equality but against the hate movement that feminism has become. It is just a logical for a man to oppose feminism as it is for a blackman to oppose the KKK or a jew to oppose the Nazis. It is perfectly rational to be against what is against you. I find it so ironic Woggle, that you have such a skewed view of woman but have married twice, given the fact of your young age. I guess it's "Can't live with them, and can't live without them" irony at it's best.
Woggle Posted June 3, 2008 Posted June 3, 2008 I find it so ironic Woggle, that you have such a skewed view of woman but have married twice, given the fact of your young age. I guess it's "Can't live with them, and can't live without them" irony at it's best. I have no use for most women but I do give a woman a chance of she proves herself worthy. I made a big mistake the first time but hopefully this time will be different. I don't think women are evil by nature or that they are created that way but by constantly coddling them and giving in every time certain women whine and scream this society has turned many women into entitled brats that are completely impossible to have a healthy and happy relationship with. There are women who have a strong enough character though that they are still decent people and these women I have no issue with.
Untouchable_Fire Posted June 3, 2008 Posted June 3, 2008 The lack of accountability and entitlement mentality in many modern women does not make for healthy relationships. I think this is true for both genders, but perhaps a little more so for women. I but by constantly coddling them and giving in every time certain women whine and scream this society has turned many women into entitled brats that are completely impossible to have a healthy and happy relationship with. Our system often puts too much emphasis on women. The percentage of boys going on to college has been dropping for years. I fear that we are slowly cutting out a portion of our male population as though they are disposable. Anyway... that's all off topic.
J2FT1 Posted June 3, 2008 Posted June 3, 2008 My take on all this: Most women want to be the "women," "lady," meaning they want the doors opened for them, their tickets payed, being first priority, and STILL want equal fairness. Some women expect to be asked out, carry "the lighter load," and if the man expects the woman to carry the same load, he is a pu*sy, or is asking too much, or not acting like "the man." I used to work at UPS. The guys had to carry the boxes and stock them into the vehicles while the girls only get to check off the boxes. This happens by default simply because of your gender. Since the man gets the harder work for being a man, should he expect the same thing? Women expect men to be men and be able to do all everything but still want equal everything. I mean, if you want to be treated fairly by guys, you have to be able to do what the guys (that you want respect from) does. Obviously women can't do everything that a man can and they have to accept that, and so, naturally, they would be treated differently but do they accept that? Yes women can do things that men can't; like have babies, and be able to make a crying baby stop, that is why they are called upon to do it, but yet they refuse to be a "homemaker." Many women wants things that they are not. How would you feel if your husband asked to stay home and you go to work? If anyone heard this, they would say "dump this guy!" A little example. Women wants to get payed as much as men in professional sports, the problem is, people want to see the men play more because they are naturally more exciting to watch, I think it's not right that woman can demand this. Many women want to have more "power", but when they come across a shy, submissive, passive man, they (most) see him as having no confidence, not a man but a boy. If you women want a "man", you had better be a "woman." If you women want power (equality, blah, blah, blah), get youself a "boy." As a saying was once said to me, " One house cannot have two fathers." So guys, find yourself a good "woman." It's ironic because my mother was a very influential part of my life (more than my father) She took care of so many things, took care of the family. She doesn't expect anything less from the daughters, and doesn't expect the sons to get anything less. I know what real women are capable of. Things like the "feminist movement" turned many generations of women into "men-wannabes".
Kasan Posted June 3, 2008 Posted June 3, 2008 I used to work at UPS. The guys had to carry the boxes and stock them into the vehicles while the girls only get to check off the boxes. This happens by default simply because of your gender. Since the man gets the harder work for being a man, should he expect the same thing? Women expect men to be men and be able to do all everything but still want equal everything. I mean, if you want to be treated fairly by guys, you have to be able to do what the guys (that you want respect from) does. Obviously women can't do everything that a man can and they have to accept that, and so, naturally, they would be treated differently but do they accept that? Ummmm....just to clarify here-- I don't know what center you worked out of, but the women who are package car drivers bust their butts and work as hard as the men do. They have the same weight limit packages on their trucks as do the men as well as the same amount of stops. Carry on!
J2FT1 Posted June 3, 2008 Posted June 3, 2008 Ummmm....just to clarify here-- I don't know what center you worked out of, but the women who are package car drivers bust their butts and work as hard as the men do. They have the same weight limit packages on their trucks as do the men as well as the same amount of stops. Carry on! No, this is stocking the boxes into the vehicles to be shipped. Women are put on the "line" to check off the boxes (so nothing is missed) by default and men are stockers unless there is an open spot or something. I'm pretty sure they won't make women carry 60lb. boxes. For they guys, its " don't be a wussy." Just to clarify, none has said that to me but it's a general take on it.
Lovelybird Posted June 4, 2008 Posted June 4, 2008 when speak of 'equalty', it doesn't mean everything has to be same as men. Obviously man and woman are different, stay-home-mom is doing honorable job, good for them. I think men are amazing they can do many things that I cannot, but there are lots of things they cannot do but I can. women want to be treated equally, equally respected, equally cared as a human. If you treat women like they are prostitutes, they must rebel. If you want to nuture a special relationship with a woman, then you have to treat her with respect and love (same as you want to be treated: if you want her to be fidelity, you do the same to her; if you want her to respect and care about what you feel, you do the same), you have to give yourself, not treat her like some prostitute whose job is satisfying YOUR needs only (even that is their job, it only takes one hour maybe? not 24/7/365) If you give proper love and respect to woman, then I don't see why woman would rebel. Most women don't care cook, clean, stay at home, as long as the man provide them love and care. I don't care about being submissive, as long as the man who wants to lead is leading toward goodness by example: such as service spirit and genuinely care about others. so the problem isn't about women don't want to be submissive, the problem is that man who lead don't know how to serve or lead. If a man knows how to serve and care and love, why a woman on earth not want to be submissive? You want woman to be submissive? learn how to lead how do you define "women respect you"? no matter what you do, she remains same? like those prostitutes don't care what you do and don't do?
Author MaxManwell Posted June 4, 2008 Author Posted June 4, 2008 OP, does your concept of relationships come from historical exposure to women and relationships, such as your parents? Were they traditional role models? Was your mother submissive? What was your relationship with your parents like? Its not that simple lots of people who didn't have a good relationship with their parents who have gone on to become perfectly healthy adults.
Gawdess Posted June 4, 2008 Posted June 4, 2008 Typical woman response. DOn't try and fix the problem, its all about emotions,it is all within you. LAME Typical man response. Blame women for yourself not being attractive to women and not getting laid.
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