Does anyone really believe that most women out there are decent ?

[MaxManwell]

I'm proud to be a woman! I'm also proud to say that yes, women DO have their roles in society whether we like it or not. It's okay to say that men should be strong, hard working, look after his family well, treat a woman right - but doesn't the same apply to women? `come on girls think about it. Isn't it great when you can be in the arms of a man and be his and respected and you can give the same back? - Who ever starts the process off first it doesn't matter. What does matter is if one tries to be "a lady" or "a man" and the other doesn't give the same level of respect then at least you know you have tried?

 

There are times when a woman should be strong: For her family, for her job and for her man. And there are times that a woman should be a WOMAN for her family, for her job, and for her man.

 

That means a lot of things to a lot of different people. And I can openly admit that sometimes I love to be submissive in the traditional sense - but that doesn't mean I don't want respect or I'm being disrespected. In fact, if I feel that my woman-ness is being compromised I make it known. That's the art of communication and one that should be embraced.

 

I think the problem here is that we've taken equality too far on both sides of the gender scale - and all of us are not believing in what we are true women and true men as we were created!

 

We do all have a purpose you know?

 

Bitterness causes us all to miscommunicate, it's counter productive. So Max to a large extent (discounting any bitterness that may come across from you and interpreted by others) I would have to agree with you - we are creatures (both men and women) and we should embrace who we are 100% - There is nothing more powerful than a man being a REAL man and a woman being a REAL woman. 100% whoa!

 

hehehe.

 

The thing I hate about modern feminisn is that it is supposed to be about equality but all it does is represent women's interest over men's.

 

The most oppressed group in society are male labourers, they're paid about the same as an unskilled customer facing worker, for work that is a lot harder often requiring special skills.

 

Feminists are nowhere to be seen on this issue. Instead we see images of some female figure that by all accounts is not even poor, splattered all over the media. The answer to why feminists don't represent equality is that women don't do things for other people unless they have something to gain or if it involves a cute animal or baby.

 

I'll make a rather crass generalisation - with all representation of female issues is it so hard to believe that maybe ladies, as a group, you have become a little selfish and self absored. That these 'problems' we're having might actually be brought on by you ? Given that is a lot of representation for woman's issues, but none for men. Is it not even slightly possible you might be at fault ?

 

Men were wrong we did not respect the individual rights of a woman, we kept them in the home and barred them from professional work. That was a long time ago before most of us were even born today it is a different issue, and very much it is particular groups of young men that are oppressed.

[Woggle]

I agree with you but the problem with men such as yourself is that you try to negotiate with feminism and you try to meet them halfway but that will not work. Feminists know exactly what they are doing and equality is not their aim. Men deliver a crsushing blow to feminism today if we all did it together but I am placing any bets on that happening. We need to treat feminists like the enemy to our gender that they are. Your posts come across as a man begging for mercy and women will sense that and go in for the kill.

[eric82]

Typical woman response.

 

DOn't try and fix the problem, its all about emotions,it is all within you.

 

LAME

 

 

A problem isn't just what happens to you but more importantly how you handle it and how you let it affect you - your life and disposition. This is why problems are ALWAYS inherently about emotions. It may not be "all within you", but all that's within you matters most to you.

 

You're letting your problems with women bring you down to the point that you're saying in other threads that you hate life and want to hurt people. This isn't an unavoidable result of the way women treat you, it's the way you're choosing to perceive and deal with it all. Your problems won't be fixed by blaming and/or changing women, but by understanding how your own faults interact with their faults and create the problems you face.

[Leia]

A problem isn't just what happens to you but more importantly how you handle it and how you let it affect you - your life and disposition. This is why problems are ALWAYS inherently about emotions. It may not be "all within you", but all that's within you matters most to you.

 

You're letting your problems with women bring you down to the point that you're saying in other threads that you hate life and want to hurt people. This isn't an unavoidable result of the way women treat you, it's the way you're choosing to perceive and deal with it all. Your problems won't be fixed by blaming and/or changing women, but by understanding how your own faults interact with their faults and create the problems you face.

 

Well said!

 

Maxwell, you need to see a professional... fix yourself!

[serial muse]

Yawn. There's no point in even talking to you, as far as I can see, Max. All you want is attention, probably from those very women you "despise."

 

What do you expect, that half of the world is going to jump on your asinine bandwagon and say, yeah, tell me how I'm completely worthless and I'll fall at your feet? Say whatever you like in your post, but in response I'll feel free to say that I'm bored to tears with this kind of whiny, passive-aggressive, why-isn't-everything-being-handed-to-me-on-a-silver-platter, self-entitled kind of post. I'm sure you know perfectly well that there are just as many decent women as there are men, but it's more fun for you to get pissy and throw blame around. I think you said you're in your 30s, but you sound like you're about 17. Please, stop being such a melodramatic teenager. Most likely the reason you haven't found a "good" woman is because seriously, you haven't really been looking. But hey - good luck with your self-absorption.

 

And Woggle - just a point. He did say this. Do you really think you guys are the same? Because actually, I don't. You have one thing in common - you like to rip on women. But his actual view of their "role" is pretty different from yours. So maybe you don't really want to rah-rah him. Just saying.

 

Yes a girl should stay home; cook,clean and look after babies but that doesn't mean if she wants to she can't go out and become a doctor or lawyer. I am all for equal opportunity but not social engineering. A woman should be a loving caring and submissive creature that is dedicated to her family and holding the unit together.

[Stockalone]

I agree with you but the problem with men such as yourself is that you try to negotiate with feminism and you try to meet them halfway but that will not work. Feminists know exactly what they are doing and equality is not their aim. Men deliver a crsushing blow to feminism today if we all did it together but I am placing any bets on that happening. We need to treat feminists like the enemy to our gender that they are. Your posts come across as a man begging for mercy and women will sense that and go in for the kill.

 

I agree that there are some women out there who think "equality" is not achieved unless the woman calls the shots in the relationship.

 

But I also think that it is the man's fault if he let's a woman treat him unfairly. If he doesn't like what is happening, he will have to speak up and set boundaries. If that doesn't work, then they are incompatible and need to move on.

 

Having said that, women are entitled to their fair share of the "power". And there are many woman out there who are willing to enter into a relationship as equals and don't have the need to "punish" their guy for millenia of opression.

 

What I do find strange though, is that usually when a guy complains (doesn't matter if he is indeed bitter or just unhappy about some things that IMO are worthy of debate) about women, he either gets told by the women that he has a chip on his shoulder, should seek therapy (which is also something that is strange to me, must be an american thing) or that he is simply considered broken inside.

 

Sure, I would agree that there is no point in blaming everyone but yourself for your problems. However, I think it is ridiculous that some people suggest that it is all the fault of the guys who are complaining.

 

 

 

There are a lot of great women out there but there are a lot more girls who are just horrible and are more like boys than what a woman should be. Yes a girl should stay home; cook,clean and look after babies but that doesn't mean if she wants to she can't go out and become a doctor or lawyer. I am all for equal opportunity but not social engineering. A woman should be a loving caring and submissive creature that is dedicated to her family and holding the unit together.

 

You can't force women to be a housewife. Women will either choose that role for themselves or they won't.

 

However, I would agree on raising the kids. At least as long as the kids are still very young. I am convinced that a mother will do a far better job at taking care of a baby than any man, even with the best intentions, ever could.

 

Cooking and cleaning are things that everybody can do and I don't have a problem sharing those duties. But if you want a woman that will stay at home, they are out there. But don't be surprised if most women will not like the idea that they should stay at home and especially not that they should be submissive. I also think that the "submissive creature" part is what will cause you the biggest problems.

 

While I certainly have my own outdated gender role issues, I don't see why they have to be submissive instead of an equal partner. We men aren't bad fathers just because we work and aren't around the kids 24/7, so I think the same holds true for the women. A woman can be a caring mother and still have the ambitition to have a carreer.

 

And you can't blame the women for wanting that. There is no reason to be bitter about women who want different things out of life than you do. If you let them control your life by making you bitter, you are giving them way too much power.

[Taramere]

What I do find strange though, is that usually when a guy complains (doesn't matter if he is indeed bitter or just unhappy about some things that IMO are worthy of debate) about women, he either gets told by the women that he has a chip on his shoulder, should seek therapy (which is also something that is strange to me, must be an american thing) or that he is simply considered broken inside. .

 

The OP said this in another thread:

 

I hate everything about my life and it makes me want to hurt people.

 

I'm not American, but that strikes me as a problem that might be worth taking to a doctor for further discussion.

 

As far as debating topics for this thread go...."women are all take" and "women are rotten to the core" seem unlikely to provoke much in the way of intelligent or insightful debate. It's hard to see what the intention would be other than to vent in a manner that's offensive to the female readership.

 

If you're a woman, no response you give other than a very cossetting and collusive one (which generally serves no valid purpose) is considered acceptable. Whether you attempt to be objective and helpful, or try to have a sense of humour about it, or simply snap back....it doesn't matter. It will invariably elicit a negative response and further useless whining.

 

Is there something very obvious that I'm missing here? Some way of taking these comments that Max, Woggle and SpikeyChick (aka jophil something or other from sosuave) like to regurgitate endlessly...and turn them into some kind of meaningful conversation?

[MaxManwell]

Usually people who have had things handed to them on a silver platter talk about other people wanting things handed to them on said platter.

 

People who have actually had it rough can have a very different perspective on what it takes to succeed. These people tend to assume nothing is handed to you, and when a person is in distress understand they're obviously trying hard but have encountered an obstacle and need help.

 

The rich kid is simply oblivious to the obstacle because Mum and Dad or plain good luck removed it for him or her.

 

'I worked hard and so should you' attitudes tend mostly to come from people who have had everything handed to them.

 

Honestly, how does putting someone down in anyway help them to become motivated or to go after something with enthusiasm. You're just tooting your own horn for the sake of your own ego.

[MaxManwell]

The OP said this in another thread:

 

 

 

I'm not American, but that strikes me as a problem that might be worth taking to a doctor for further discussion.

 

As far as debating topics for this thread go...."women are all take" and "women are rotten to the core" seem unlikely to provoke much in the way of intelligent or insightful debate. It's hard to see what the intention would be other than to vent in a manner that's offensive to the female readership.

 

If you're a woman, no response you give other than a very cossetting and collusive one (which generally serves no valid purpose) is considered acceptable. Whether you attempt to be objective and helpful, or try to have a sense of humour about it, or simply snap back....it doesn't matter. It will invariably elicit a negative response and further useless whining.

 

Is there something very obvious that I'm missing here? Some way of taking these comments that Max, Woggle and SpikeyChick (aka jophil something or other from sosuave) like to regurgitate endlessly...and turn them into some kind of meaningful conversation?

 

I just wanted to see if anyone on this forum would be willing to accept atleast a little bit of fault.

[SoleMate]

A woman should be a loving caring and submissive creature that is dedicated to her family and holding the unit together.

Oh, do you need help holding your "unit" together!!?? That goes a long way towards explaining your negative attitude. You have my sympathy as that must be a very troubling problem.

[dreamergrl]

I just wanted to see if anyone on this forum would be willing to accept atleast a little bit of fault.

 

And you don't find any fault in yourself? So you want women to take the blame, and call you perfect? Hahahaha no

[serial muse]

Usually people who have had things handed to them on a silver platter talk about other people wanting things handed to them on said platter.

 

People who have actually had it rough can have a very different perspective on what it takes to succeed. These people tend to assume nothing is handed to you, and when a person is in distress understand they're obviously trying hard but have encountered an obstacle and need help.

 

The rich kid is simply oblivious to the obstacle because Mum and Dad or plain good luck removed it for him or her.

 

'I worked hard and so should you' attitudes tend mostly to come from people who have had everything handed to them.

 

Honestly, how does putting someone down in anyway help them to become motivated or to go after something with enthusiasm. You're just tooting your own horn for the sake of your own ego.

 

 

Apparently, you aren't familiar with the concept of irony.

 

But sure, feel free to insult a bunch of people you don't know and then complain when they think you're rude and childish because of it. It must be because women aren't "decent."

 

Have you read your own posts?

 

Like I said. Grow up. And it might do you some good to accept some responsibility yourself.

[Stockalone]

I'm not American, but that strikes me as a problem that might be worth taking to a doctor for further discussion.

 

It might be worth to think about seeking counselling but I don't see the "need" to see a professional everytime someone has thoughts like this.

 

I assume that it is not so bad that he can barely control himself not to kill someone. As long as those occational thoughts remain thoughts, I don't have a problem with it.

 

 

As far as debating topics for this thread go...."women are all take" and "women are rotten to the core" seem unlikely to provoke much in the way of intelligent or insightful debate. It's hard to see what the intention would be other than to vent in a manner that's offensive to the female readership.

 

That was merely a general observation, not meant in particular for this thread. Misogynistic tendencies should not be tolerated.

 

I do agree that the OP has issues and he is bashing women but I am also convinced that some of the responses to the OP are just as offensive as his posts.

 

 

 

If you're a woman, no response you give other than a very cossetting and collusive one (which generally serves no valid purpose) is considered acceptable. Whether you attempt to be objective and helpful, or try to have a sense of humour about it, or simply snap back....it doesn't matter. It will invariably elicit a negative response and further useless whining.

 

I agree, but the same holds true if the roles are reversed. I am thinking of the "nice guys" threads. While there are quite a few whiners and woman bashers, there are also those who try to discuss valid points but they will be simply overlooked. The responses are always that the men posting in these threads are bitter, whiny losers who will end up alone.

 

When there are "nice girls" thread, I don't see the men calling those women crazy cat ladies who will never get a man.

[Untouchable_Fire]

And you don't find any fault in yourself? So you want women to take the blame, and call you perfect? Hahahaha no

 

Seems he is another victim of society.

 

I think he would be much happier if he started seeing women as people.

[serial muse]

I think he would be much happier if he started seeing women as people.

 

Wholeheartedly agree. I think this sums it up nicely.

[dreamergrl]

Seems he is another victim of society.

 

I think he would be much happier if he started seeing women as people.

 

Wholeheartedly agree. I think this sums it up nicely.

 

It wont happen because his basis of a relationship is paying prostitutes for sex. His view is the way it is because he's used to "getting what he pays for". He doesn't have to have a personality with these women. They just have to do as he pleases.

[MaxManwell]

Apparently, you aren't familiar with the concept of irony.

 

But sure, feel free to insult a bunch of people you don't know and then complain when they think you're rude and childish because of it. It must be because women aren't "decent."

 

Have you read your own posts?

 

Like I said. Grow up. And it might do you some good to accept some responsibility yourself.

 

It is only ironic to you because you are assuming too much. I fall into neither category I have neither had it rough nor been particularily unlucky.

 

I am complaining about a general stereo type that any individual is free to break at any time. You are attacking an individual because of his personal opinion.

 

* I am not in my 30's if I was I'd have more cause to be content with my life the way it is.

[Carmen87]

Usually people who have had things handed to them on a silver platter talk about other people wanting things handed to them on said platter.

 

People who have actually had it rough can have a very different perspective on what it takes to succeed. These people tend to assume nothing is handed to you, and when a person is in distress understand they're obviously trying hard but have encountered an obstacle and need help.

 

The rich kid is simply oblivious to the obstacle because Mum and Dad or plain good luck removed it for him or her.

 

'I worked hard and so should you' attitudes tend mostly to come from people who have had everything handed to them.

 

Honestly, how does putting someone down in anyway help them to become motivated or to go after something with enthusiasm. You're just tooting your own horn for the sake of your own ego.

 

Oh really? That is not what I see at all. I had a rough life growing up as did many of the people I associate with. When we see people whine about the things you do, we tell you to get a life and quit your bitching. Life isn't easy, and it isn't supposed to be. The point is that you are supposed to overcome obstacles that are put forth. If you bitch about everything in life, you will get nowhere.

 

"You will never leave where you are until you decide where it is that you want to be."

[MaxManwell]

Oh really? That is not what I see at all. I had a rough life growing up as did many of the people I associate with. When we see people whine about the things you do, we tell you to get a life and quit your bitching. Life isn't easy, and it isn't supposed to be. The point is that you are supposed to overcome obstacles that are put forth. If you bitch about everything in life, you will get nowhere.

 

"You will never leave where you are until you decide where it is that you want to be."

 

Again a personal attack on a matter of opinion. Yet in the first place you did not jump down my throat with all of the rhetoric.

[Trialbyfire]

In needing to control an entire gender, smacks of fear of the unknown. It's akin to racism.

[Kasan]

We can bring this thread down with personal attacks, but OP I am wondering how your thinking is impacting your relationships.

 

In other words, are you having fulfilling relationships with your current POV?

[MaxManwell]

We can bring this thread down with personal attacks, but OP I am wondering how your thinking is impacting your relationships.

 

In other words, are you having fulfilling relationships with your current POV?

 

I don't think my POV has much to do with it.

[t_veron]

This is an interesting thread. I catch myself asking the same thing and I'm sure many others do as well. This is not about men or women it happens for everyone at some point in time. I believe it comes down to you and who you attract and what you're willing to put up with from the getgo. It does take a lot of bad experiences to realize the one common problem in all the experiences is you (man or woman). Fix the common problem and I'm sure the next set of experiences will go better till you find the right one. Here's a good article that might help explain.

 

http://ezinearticles.com/?Why-Do-I-Attract-So-Many-Losers?&id=432525

[Kasan]

I don't think my POV has much to do with it.

 

You dodged the question--are you having fulfilling relationships?

 

Ahhhhhhh....I get it, you are blaming a gender for your failures.

 

Do you hold yourself accountable for any of your failures? Have you done any self-examination to why these relationships failed?

[MaxManwell]

It does take a lot of bad experiences to realize the one common problem in all the experiences is you (man or woman).

 

http://ezinearticles.com/?Why-Do-I-Attract-So-Many-Losers?&id=432525

 

That is very true finally someone is talking sense.