Surf2008 Posted June 2, 2008 Posted June 2, 2008 Should a guy who is living with his finace be able to attend a gathering at a friends house, drink till he can't stand and stay the night, without his fiance? Now before you judge.... I have been with my girl for 2 years. I have never done this before (NEVER). She is invited (although she will say that I didn't invite her correctly). I haven't hung out with some of these guys in 5 years. My friends lives over an hour away. When I try to explain this to my fiance, she gets very upset and claims very seriously that I have no respect for her feelings and that I don't care about her feelings. So I ask, what does this have to do with your feelings .? Why don't you just come with me and we get drunk together (she drinks too), these are really good people? "Because you don't want me there" she says, then I say "I would love nothing more than to be able to hang out with my finace with my friends and have a good time. That being said, I haven't seen these guys in 5 years, I don't want to have to watch what I drink and I don't' want to leave early; so if your ok with that than lets role together." So I agree to not stay over night and she is ok with me going by myself. Well I get to the party and time flys, but by the time I'm into 2.5 beers... its 9:00 and I promised I would be home before 12:00 am and I have a long drive home with expired plates (on the way there I realized my plates were expired, its a long story, but unusual for me to do that). I'm having a great time at this party, but I realize I have to leave. So I call and ask "permission" to stay overnight so I can enjoy myself a little longer. She blows up at me. I quickly stop selling the idea and say "ok, I'm sorry, I've had my last beer and I'll be home before 12:00 am" ... I get home and she has booked a flight back home and is contemplating leaving me for good, because "I don't care about her feelings"... I'm thinking...she is the one not caring about my feelings. Remember, we have not spent a night apart in over a year. So I don't get upset with her, I just say, "I love you and I want you to be happy... if leaving me makes you happy...then leave", Well she doesn't leave and she cancels the flight, but what the hell man? I feel trapped, she is so afraid of everything... and I love her, but I'm not sure I can take the limits on my legitimate freedom forever. What should I do... leave? Carry on with what I want to do, without carring if she will leave me? ... Talk to her different? Help! [FONT=Arial][sIZE=2][/sIZE][/FONT]
Mr. Lucky Posted June 2, 2008 Posted June 2, 2008 When I try to explain this to my fiance, she gets very upset and claims very seriously that I have no respect for her feelings and that I don't care about her feelings. So I ask, what does this have to do with your feelings .? Why don't you just come with me and we get drunk together (she drinks too), these are really good people? "Because you don't want me there" she says, then I say "I would love nothing more than to be able to hang out with my finace with my friends and have a good time. That being said, I haven't seen these guys in 5 years, I don't want to have to watch what I drink and I don't' want to leave early; so if your ok with that than lets role together." So I agree to not stay over night and she is ok with me going by myself. Well I get to the party and time flys, but by the time I'm into 2.5 beers... its 9:00 and I promised I would be home before 12:00 am and I have a long drive home with expired plates (on the way there I realized my plates were expired, its a long story, but unusual for me to do that). I'm having a great time at this party, but I realize I have to leave. So I call and ask "permission" to stay overnight so I can enjoy myself a little longer. She blows up at me. I quickly stop selling the idea and say "ok, I'm sorry, I've had my last beer and I'll be home before 12:00 am" ... I get home and she has booked a flight back home and is contemplating leaving me for good, because "I don't care about her feelings"... I would suspect Surf2008, that you have posted already knowing what most people's response will be. Regardless, here goes... She sounds pathologically controlling and manipulative. Grown people in a healthy relationship trust each other to act in ways that conform to agreed upon boundaries and guidelines, as opposed to "asking permission". So unless you want to spend the rest of your life trying to toe a line that changes based on whim and insecurity, I'd seriously reconsider your pending marriage. Otherwise, I'll look for your post in the "Divorce and Separation" forum 12-18 months from now . Mr. Lucky
Author Surf2008 Posted June 2, 2008 Author Posted June 2, 2008 That's that hugh? Well to be honest, I agree, but I have people telling me it will get better too, but I'm not sure it will. I'm getting so many mixed messages. I have so much invested in this relationship, to just walk away is so huge. Thanks for you input
michelangelo Posted June 2, 2008 Posted June 2, 2008 And find out why your fiancee is such a drama queen. What was she worried about? Was an old girlfriend there?
quankanne Posted June 2, 2008 Posted June 2, 2008 she has booked a flight back home and is contemplating leaving me for good, because "I don't care about her feelings"... I'm thinking...she is the one not caring about my feelings. Remember, we have not spent a night apart in over a year. So I don't get upset with her, I just say, "I love you and I want you to be happy... if leaving me makes you happy...then leave", Well she doesn't leave and she cancels the flight, but what the hell man? I feel trapped, she is so afraid of everything... huge red flag, dude – she feels it's okay to manipulate you however she wants, then backs down when you fail to fall into the role she expects you to assume. Frankly, she doesn't sound mature enough to even be contemplating marriage. don't walk away ... RUN! This is not the person you should contemplate an ever-after with because you will be continually tested by her, and you will rarely, if ever, pass those tests.
D-Lish Posted June 2, 2008 Posted June 2, 2008 I see nothing wrong with going out and letting loose with your male friends you haven't seen in ages! You haven't seen these guys in years, and have spent every night together with your gf for the past year--- it's distressing she can't allow you one evening of companionship with your friends! Do things like that get better? Not likely. The threatening to leave on her part was a power/punishment move... Take a man's friends and freedom from him- and you can bet a part of him dies inside. That's so uncool. I would suggest putting your foot down with her. DO you want to get married and then end up ostracized from your friends because she doesn't want you having fun with them? It's sad really- that she doesn't realize that giving you her trust and freedom would actually bring the two of you closer... instead it could very well pull you apart. I'd think long and hard about getting married- I wouldn't proceed until this issue gets resolved. The only way to resolve it is to take the hard line with her.
curiousnycgirl Posted June 2, 2008 Posted June 2, 2008 I think it is foolish to believe it will change/get better. You need to assume the woman you are about to marry is the woman you will live with for the rest of your life. So the question is can you? You've only provided parts of the story - so I am trying to reserve judgement. What did you mean when you said she didn't feel you had asked her correctly? Overall I think the entire scenario is absurd, and a huge red flag. To tell the truth my first reaction was WTF she wants him to drive drunk?! Maybe her side will become clearer to me when you answer my question above - but truth is I don't get it, and I'm stunned you gave into it!
Mr. Lucky Posted June 2, 2008 Posted June 2, 2008 and I'm stunned you gave into it! Good point! We've all been speculating about her, but an obvious question would be "Why would you agree to drive home after several beers with expired plates, based solely on her demand?" If you feel strongly about something, don't you feel qualified or empowered to make a decision like that yourself ? Mr. Lucky
blind_otter Posted June 2, 2008 Posted June 2, 2008 That's that hugh? Well to be honest, I agree, but I have people telling me it will get better too, but I'm not sure it will. I'm getting so many mixed messages. I have so much invested in this relationship, to just walk away is so huge. Thanks for you input Think of it this way. You should never marry someone for what they might become. You should always marry someone for who they are, right now. When women complain about not being able to change their men, the advice is always quite obvious - you can't change someone. They can only change themselves. And that only happens when they recognize, for themselves, that the way they are behaving is unacceptible. The same holds true for men complaining about not being able to change their woman.
Author Surf2008 Posted June 2, 2008 Author Posted June 2, 2008 To answer your question about "I didn't invite her correctly": There is a back story, a huge back story. I have always given in to her when she protestes me doing things that would be overnight, including business trips. She has "allowed me" to do "approved" activities. I can golf with my friends (I have yet to do that), for half a day, I can go fishing (I have yet to do that either) with my friends for half a day, but anything that would requires me to stay overnight is seen, by her, as a great threat. So this time, we had been fighting for about 5 days about other things. This is not the only issue I have with her. I can get into that later. So this time I was just going to do what I wanted to do. I just wanted to hang out with my friends without any rules and regluations. So I said to her, "I'm going to the party on Saturday. Do you want to go?", she said "No, you obviously don't want me there", so I said, "Its not that I don't want you there, its that I don't care, I would love it if we could go together, thats the type of thing I want to do with my partner, but I don't want to leave early (like we always do) and I just want to get drunk, which I rarely do." This made her even more angery. She swore that i would get there and want to stay, I ,at the time, disagreeed with her, but when I got there, she was right I wanted to stay." Her main argument when I got back was that I had put her in a bad situation, a "no win" situation. On the one had, she said, you said you should come home and you know that I didn't want you to stay over night, and on the other and I'm now the crazy girlfriend that is making you to come home". In other words: I just want you home without any discussion or argument, especially if you friends are listening. As for the other issues. She can turn on my in a heart beat, we can be hanging out having a good time. At somepoint in the situation she will as me question, usually have something to do with something or someone I did in my past. The most recent question was, "Have you ever been naked in public?", I said "yes, when I was in college I went streaking through a frat party, that had 150 people in it. I walked around the party naked for about 15 minutes." She rolled her eyes and said, "ok, I'm done here." She got pissed and starts to ignore me. I usually try to state my case and she fights me everystep of the way. The argument turns into my appeal for understanding with her refusal to understand or to even let me know that she still loves me even though she is upset with me. She is also very jealous. ... i know i know ... what am I doing?
Author Surf2008 Posted June 2, 2008 Author Posted June 2, 2008 Also... 4 years ago her mothered died in a very very tragic way at the same time that her father was severely injured and is now handicapped. Her world was shattered. I guess I thought I would be strong enought to help her. She has a ton of pain from that and so I gave in to things too much to make her feel better.
curiousnycgirl Posted June 2, 2008 Posted June 2, 2008 Ok IMHO this is a toxic relationship. She has a list of things she allows you to do?! Frankly you two are not suited! Generally people who prefer to stay home or get home early don't need to make rules about it, becuase their partners typically feel the same way. The fact that she has imposed on rules on you is completely controlling. The fact that you accepted them is absurd. I understand you not wanting to rock the apple cart while she was recovering from her family tragedy - but that doesn't mean you want to live your life that way. Frankly I'm very suprised that she is happy with the situation either. No woman wants to have to tell her man how to make her happy - he should sort of know it (for the most part) and do it on his own. Ok maybe I'm wrong on this one - I am not a controlling woman - so maybe some women are like this (which of course makes me wonder why women like this are married/engaged and I can't seem to figure it out). I think you two need joint counseling and I think you two need to seriously question your compatability. If the relationship continues as it has been, I'd suspect you will become very resentful and neither one of you will be happy. Good luck to you!
Author Surf2008 Posted June 2, 2008 Author Posted June 2, 2008 She doesn't impose rules perse. There isn't an actual list of approved activies, but that's what it feels like. When I met her we went out all the time. We always stayed out late and with her friends we would. But with my friends she is ready to go home early. When I'm with her and her friends, I understand that this is her time and I'm there for her. For her, when she's out with her friends she cares more about me, which to me in unnecessary. When I'm out with my friends she wants me to take care of her the whole time. Which means that she wants to leave early. Which is fine... but when I do want to stay out late...once in a blue moon, I should get any crap about it...darnit! I'm not easily manipulated, I can see when I'm begin manipulated, but I usually don't confront it because I don't want to upset her. She is not happy at all. She is miserable. When ever I try to talk about what I need she cries and starts yelling and blaming me. The way I see it, I'm trying to fullfill my life and that doesn't line up with her life. I know the answer. The bottom line is, yes this is a toxic relationship and I just need to do what I want and and she can leave me if she wants to. Ok IMHO this is a toxic relationship. She has a list of things she allows you to do?! Frankly you two are not suited! Generally people who prefer to stay home or get home early don't need to make rules about it, becuase their partners typically feel the same way. The fact that she has imposed on rules on you is completely controlling. The fact that you accepted them is absurd. I understand you not wanting to rock the apple cart while she was recovering from her family tragedy - but that doesn't mean you want to live your life that way. Frankly I'm very suprised that she is happy with the situation either. No woman wants to have to tell her man how to make her happy - he should sort of know it (for the most part) and do it on his own. Ok maybe I'm wrong on this one - I am not a controlling woman - so maybe some women are like this (which of course makes me wonder why women like this are married/engaged and I can't seem to figure it out). I think you two need joint counseling and I think you two need to seriously question your compatability. If the relationship continues as it has been, I'd suspect you will become very resentful and neither one of you will be happy. Good luck to you!
D-Lish Posted June 2, 2008 Posted June 2, 2008 Spending time in a relationship wiht a person that is miserable can take it's toll on a person. It can and does suck the energy out of you! Pre-marital counselling an option?
quankanne Posted June 2, 2008 Posted June 2, 2008 she can leave me if she wants to. if you know the relationship is unhealthy, what the hell are you waiting around for, expecting her to leave if she doesn't like what's going on? Shouldn't you be making tracks instead, simply because you know the relationship is not what it should be for a lifetime commitment? Or are you just lazy, hoping that *she* will see the light and end things instead of you being the decisive one? You're only going to prolong the agony, then get stuck in a marriage you don't even want because you're not happy or compatible with her. just my two cents
Author Surf2008 Posted June 2, 2008 Author Posted June 2, 2008 We actually tried it for a while, but we fought more after each session. I would explain my position and she would agree with the me during the session and then have at me once we got in the car. I did mention to her today that we need to talk to someone. She said she would go. The stance I'm taking right now is: I'm living my life how I see fit. I'm not a drunk. I don't do drugs. I have absolutly no intention on cheating on her. I just want to do guy things from time to time and not have the one I love mad at me or upset. When I say I'm going on a fishing trip in a month and I need to stay near the dock. So I'm going to leave the night before and stay at a hotel. I shouldn't get a rash of crap because of the way I asked and If I cared about her feelings I would ask it in a different way. Its a deversion from the real issue, which is I'm leaveing and she will do anything to keep from going. In a healthy relationship it should be easy. I'm going on a fishing trip in a month... cool have a good time.
iamloved Posted June 2, 2008 Posted June 2, 2008 I had a really bad relationship - where the guy cheated and lied and totally took me. I was so very, very stupid (and young). My next relationship was with my, now, husband. As is often the case, he paid for the ex's sins. It wasn't fair or rational. I was suspicious and insecure. PRIOR to getting married - we worked on it. I recognized how stupid it was - because in the end - you can't control your partner's/spouse's behavior you can only control your reaction. Hindsight (20 years or so..) - the problem was that I jumped into a relationship too soon - I hadn't really dealt with all of the issues so I just brought them forward. Don't know if this could be your situation - but it is an alternative to the assumption that she is a manipulative control freak. I would definitely insist that this get rectified before I said, "I Do". I would make sure that I understood the root of the problem. If she is a manipulative control freak - that isn't going to change in 6 months.
Mr. Lucky Posted June 2, 2008 Posted June 2, 2008 When I say I'm going on a fishing trip in a month and I need to stay near the dock. So I'm going to leave the night before and stay at a hotel. I shouldn't get a rash of crap because of the way I asked and If I cared about her feelings I would ask it in a different way. Its a deversion from the real issue, which is I'm leaveing and she will do anything to keep from going. In a healthy relationship it should be easy. I'm going on a fishing trip in a month... cool have a good time. If this is what have have to go through just to go on a fishing trip, what hoops will you have to jump through on the big things in life? Family? Finances? Career? It boggles the mind... Mr. Lucky
GPFan Posted June 3, 2008 Posted June 3, 2008 So I call and ask "permission" to stay overnight so I can enjoy myself a little longer. She blows up at me. I quickly stop selling the idea and say "ok, I'm sorry, I've had my last beer and I'll be home before 12:00 am" ... I get home and she has booked a flight back home and is contemplating leaving me for good, because "I don't care about her feelings"... Oh! The fun hasn't started yet, wait until she has a kid or two to hold over your head... Think of it this way. You should never marry someone for what they might become. You should always marry someone for who they are, right now. When women complain about not being able to change their men, the advice is always quite obvious - you can't change someone. They can only change themselves. And that only happens when they recognize, for themselves, that the way they are behaving is unacceptible. The same holds true for men complaining about not being able to change their woman.Behaviours that are vexing early on will become misery-makers in a marriage or long-term commitment. It appears you are already halfway there. The bottom line is, yes this is a toxic relationship and I just need to do what I want and and she can leave me if she wants to.What is plan B if she doesn't leave as expected?
Woggle Posted June 3, 2008 Posted June 3, 2008 Get out now before you can. It will only get worse after you get married and she will have your balls in a vice grip. She is doing you a huge favor by showing you this side of her before the wedding and you should run for your life.
serial muse Posted June 3, 2008 Posted June 3, 2008 She doesn't impose rules perse. There isn't an actual list of approved activies, but that's what it feels like. When I met her we went out all the time. We always stayed out late and with her friends we would. But with my friends she is ready to go home early. When I'm with her and her friends, I understand that this is her time and I'm there for her. For her, when she's out with her friends she cares more about me, which to me in unnecessary. When I'm out with my friends she wants me to take care of her the whole time. Which means that she wants to leave early. Which is fine... but when I do want to stay out late...once in a blue moon, I should get any crap about it...darnit! I'm not easily manipulated, I can see when I'm begin manipulated, but I usually don't confront it because I don't want to upset her. She is not happy at all. She is miserable. When ever I try to talk about what I need she cries and starts yelling and blaming me. The way I see it, I'm trying to fullfill my life and that doesn't line up with her life. I know the answer. The bottom line is, yes this is a toxic relationship and I just need to do what I want and and she can leave me if she wants to. She is clearly unhappy, and is projecting her issues onto you. And you've been patient with it for a while; sounds like you've even tried to be a kind of white knight to her, to "save" her. But that's not a life sentence; if she really doesn't see anything wrong with the way she tries to manipulate you, then you don't have to stick around. You said maybe you should do what you want and if she leaves, she leaves; but if you're unhappy, you can leave. There's freedom in that - you aren't trapped. You can take a stand for yourself and the kind of relationship you want; that's entirely reasonable. But it'll be harder to leave once you're married. Please, think carefully about whether this is the relationship you want. You shouldn't have to feel guilty for wanting to see your friends or wanting time for yourself.
torranceshipman Posted June 3, 2008 Posted June 3, 2008 Wow, she sounds awful! She's so controlling and manipulative and negative - I bet that negativity sucks the energy and the life out of you....I think that marrying this girl would be a HUGE mistake. Maybe staying together but breaking the engagement is also an option?-to make her understand that your relationshp is not strong enough right now to make a huge commitment like getting married.
DaddyO Posted June 11, 2008 Posted June 11, 2008 Dude, RUN I've been married for 3 years, and although I cant complaint there are instances where I have to lay my foot down and tell my wife that Im just going out with my Buds. Trust me, you'll get to the point where you will not even have a good time with your Buds because the first thing in your mind will be "I think my woman is already pissed". Once you start thinking about your SO when your with your friends then its all over. RUN and dont look back. She's not worth your time.
jmargel Posted June 11, 2008 Posted June 11, 2008 From my own experience get these problems resolved before getting married. Any problems you have now get magnified by 10 afterwards. Trust me on this.
reservoirdog1 Posted July 18, 2008 Posted July 18, 2008 She has placed her own self-worth into you and the relationship. When you go off with your friends, she sees that as a threat as something you would rather do then spend time with her. She needs to realize these emotional problems she has. However you can't point them out to her, because if you do then you are pushing yourself away from her and it will just either make her cling on harder or to run off. If she hears it from a counselor then there is a better chance she would be willing to change. I second this. I'm newly out of a relationship that had a lot of the same characteristics you describe, Surf. Your fiancee sees your relationship as a zero-sum game -- if you do something with people other than her, then she and the relationship automatically lose. Everything you do without her is at the expense of her and the relationship. Forget the notion that getting out and doing your own thing sometimes is good for you, healthy, keeps you happy, recharges you and makes you a better and more committed partner. She is incapable of seeing that, due to her insecurity, and because she's made you solely responsible for her happiness. You need to get this fixed before you get married. I couldn't take any more of it in my relationship; I looked ahead to the future after marriage, and saw more of the same -- only this time, within a marriage. If it can't be fixed, you have to either learn to accept it, or get out. Because just being married won't fix it.
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