I need your insight. Does my bf have another woman?

[Trialbyfire]

He's testing the waters in an immature way. Talk about playing with matches...

[stillwaitingonyou]

He's testing the waters in an immature way. Talk about playing with matches...

 

What do you mean? Like... if she reacted positively then he may move on that? Like he's seeing if she may feel the same and it goes back to her giving him that permission?

 

ugh, he makes me sick!!

[Trialbyfire]

What do you mean? Like... if she reacted positively then he may move on that? Like he's seeing if she may feel the same and it goes back to her giving him that permission?

 

ugh, he makes me sick!!

Think back on when you were in highschool.

 

"You like me."

 

"No, I don't."

 

"Yes you do."

[Owl]

This is 'testing the waters' in a verbal sense.

 

When a guy is attracted to a woman, he tests her boundaries and watches how she responds. Initially, he'll talk with her at a normal distance. Then, he'll slowly close the distance, and see how she reacts. If she doesn't rebuff him, he'll enter her personal space in a non-threatening manner, like touching her shoulder or arm. Again, if she doesn't react negatively, he'll escalate once more by touching a more personal location, but still in a non sexual manner. He'll brush her hair outta her eyes, or touch her face. As long as she doesn't rebuff him, he'll continue to escalate. This is how he figures out if she's interested or not.

 

What your BF is doing is the exact same thing, in a verbal instead of physical way. He starts with joking and laughing. Then he MILDLY crosses the line with the "hon", and "sweetie" comments. Next, he'll tell a risque joke...not very bad, but borderline. He'll also start making comments about her personal appearance ("wow, you smell nice today"). It'll stay non-threatening for a long time...and it will continue to escalate for as long as she doesn't set a hard boundary on him.

 

Yep, you're looking at the beginning of something right now.

[OWoman]

Think back on when you were in highschool.

 

"You like me."

 

"No, I don't."

 

"Yes you do."

 

Primary school, more like. High school is discussions about the meaning of life and seeing whether your philosophies match up enough to consider getting hot and sweaty behind the cricket nets at break.

[OWoman]

When a guy is attracted to a woman, he tests her boundaries and watches how she responds.

 

Gosh I'm glad I don't live in America, Owl! It seems awfully complex! How do people ever get it together to breed?

[whichwayisup]

Boy, he has a HUGE ego and just seems to love to play a dangerous game. He's definately playing the cat and mouse game and ego game with her. WTF.

[stillafool]

How old is your bf? I would have been so upset after I found out he took the time to write her a 5 page letter. What guy does this unless he is interested in this girl. He should be writing you a 5 page letter. Also just because he sent you flowers does not mean he is not guilty. Sometimes flowers, candy and gifts are sent to cover up guilt and to throw you off. (Been there and had that done to me). Their email conversation definitely sounds like there is sexual chemistry between them and he is feeling her out. Another thing, if they get together on some Sundays, why can't you go with him to meet her?

[Owl]

Gosh I'm glad I don't live in America, Owl! It seems awfully complex! How do people ever get it together to breed?

 

That's ok, Owoman. I'm equally glad I don't live in your country as well.

 

BTW...this isn't a cultural thing. Watch the next time you go someplace, and see how people "test the boundaries". Its not limited to men, women do it too. Its simply how people court. Everyone does it, and the vast majority of them don't realilze that they do. I'll bet that YOU follow a similar process without ever being aware of it.

 

Its simply how people show interest and gauge the response back.

 

Don't blame America for it.

[frannie]

I am planning on confronting him about it because he shouldn't be calling another girl a BABE, HONEY, SWEETIE, or wahtever!! Even if he is joking. I don't know... it just keep running through my head and what someone had posted before that he is testing the waters and seeing how she reacts. If she reacts positively then who knows what would have happened...

 

 

UGHH!!!! i CAN'T STAND HIM I'm crying and typing at the same time!

 

SWOY I'm sorry you're going through all this, it must be pretty terrible watching him doing this virtually in front of your eyes. On the other hand, at least you can see him for what he is.

 

Yes, he's testing the waters. He's not 'joking', why would he be joking like that? He's pursuing this, and what's more he thinks that five minutes to call up to send you flowers is going to get you off his a** for a while.

[stillwaitingonyou]

How old is your bf? I would have been so upset after I found out he took the time to write her a 5 page letter. What guy does this unless he is interested in this girl. He should be writing you a 5 page letter. Also just because he sent you flowers does not mean he is not guilty. Sometimes flowers, candy and gifts are sent to cover up guilt and to throw you off. (Been there and had that done to me). Their email conversation definitely sounds like there is sexual chemistry between them and he is feeling her out. Another thing, if they get together on some Sundays, why can't you go with him to meet her?

 

My boyfriend is 25... I want to believe him so bad when he says it is nothing. What do you think it means when she reacted like that? Is it positive or negative? I know it's all negative... but I want to know exactly if SHE likes him... I know they flirt back and forth but it seems that most of the work is on MY BOYFRIEND... he's the one who tests the situation first!

[whichwayisup]

Your gut is screaming so listen to it. Something is really "off" here. A girl who writes a guy a 5 paged letter is SERIOUSLY liking him. Doesn't matter if she is fresh out of a relationship, she is getting something from him, just like he is getting something from her. Maybe it's just an emotional thing, or an ego feed for them both, either way it is WRONG of him to be doing this when YOU are his girlfriend.

 

I understand you want to believe him and don't want to believe that he is capable of selfish and inappropriate behaviour, but his actions ARE you showing you this.

[pelicanpreacher]

I tried to talk to him today... there were periods where he got a bit defensive and there were periods where he was joking around like nothing is happening. He started off joking around and laughing it off but when I really pried into it and said it is honestly bothering me he said that after all these years I should know him better. I feel hurt because yes, I don't have proof and it may all be in my insecurities, however I also feel hurt because he cannot acknowledge that what he is doing is wrong. He says he thinks of this girl as a friend... and only that and that I'm just going crazy.

 

I think I just need to really convince myself and get enough courage to walk away.

 

All this "other woman" aside... I need to make myself understand that even though there is someone else in the picture now... what is his intentions? Being together for 6 years... is that not enough for him to want to marry me? i don't want to sound insecure or desperate but I think he's made me like this. I need to know that even without someone else that waiting around for him to commit to me like I need him to isn't going to happen. It doesn't matter if it's with this girl or possibly the next... 6 years should tell you that you want to be with someone forever? especially at this age? doesn't it? Is this really a dead end either way...

 

I think your boyfriend's use of his father's death as a reason you can't understand what he's going through is an excuse to keep you at bay. This event didn't occur when he was an adolecent who needs the security of his father's presence or a teenager trying to find himself but, instead, a fully grown man capable of living on his own. As a fully functioning adult he should have been emotionally mature enough to realize that your empathy for his feelings as he dealt with his grief were just as deep as the feelings he endured surrounding his father's death. His notion that he had to find a connection with another woman who endured a similar experience was a cop-out and insulting to your intelligence. Surely he must know you have experienced traumatic loss of a significant person in your lifetime or have enough maturity of being to provide the comfort of connection he needed at a time like this, yes?

 

As an adult, when faced with traumatic life changing events, we can either focus or fold. Your boyfriend has chosen not only to fold like a deck of cards but has also regressed in maturity to that of an adolescent. This is evidenced by the immature manner in which he interacts with you and his new friend! Although the death of his father may have initially caused disorientation of his values and emotional bearings he's made little attempt to progress into the man he'd be at this stage of life if his father were alive today. The removal of the authoritative figure his father represented in life has given him a newfound sense of freedom subduing his seriousness about establishing plans for the future and has diminished his zeal to continue a relationship with you. If his father were alive today he would probably tell him to GROW UP and STOP BEING A BABY because acting like a 12 year old at 25 is unacceptable for any reason at your age!

 

There were signs that he's been tiring of your relationship or has issues with maturity because he's always shown a reticence to show the commitment you deserve by living together, after being with you for 6 years, in a fully adult relationship. Marriage and the responsibility of children are nowhere in the near future with him as I see his blossoming relationship with this other woman as another step in his divestment of all perceived restraints of the past when his father was alive.

 

You, on the other hand, have matured to a stage well beyond his and are not having your needs met. I understand your reluctance at moving on from this relationship because of the time and emotional investment you've made but you two aren't even playing in the same league anymore. You're moving towards the majors while he's moving towards the Pee Wee's and never the twain shall meet!

[OWoman]

You, on the other hand, have matured to a stage well beyond his and are not having your needs met. I understand your reluctance at moving on from this relationship because of the time and emotional investment you've made but you two aren't even playing in the same league anymore. You're moving towards the majors while he's moving towards the Pee Wee's and never the twain shall meet!

 

That is the crux of it. Do you want a partner or a kid?

[MichelleS1983]

I want to say that I am confident that he will NEVER cheat on me but emotional cheating is a completely different ballpark.

That kind of blind trust is going to be your downfall.

 

Sounds as though your boyfriend is using his father's death to act like a jerk, quite honestly. His father died 2 years ago and he's milking it for everything it's worth, how utterly pathetic. Does he think he's the ONLY one on earth whose lost a parent? Alot of people have - they just don't use it as an excuse to have an emotional affair, which is what your boyfriend is doing.

 

He's basically openly dating this really 'cool' gorgeous girl from work, and you're allowing it to happen.

 

My SO doesn't take women 'friends' out to dinner. He doesn't talk to them on the phone almost every night. He doesn't write them 5 page letters to take with them when they travel. And he certainly doesn't gush to me how 'cool' and 'gorgeous' they are.

 

What someone here said is true - you can't make a man feel something he doesn't feel or make him stay where he doesn't want to stay. He's only 25 - he's been in a committed relationship since he was a 19 year old TEENAGER. He's never had a chance to date because he's been with you for the last 6 years - that doesn't fare very well for you, being honest. The guy has never had a chance to spread his wings or sew his wild oats. Not saying that's your fault, but the truth of the matter is that he's never had a chance to be an adult single and that will work against you. In fact, it IS working against you right now.

 

At the very LEAST, he's having an emotional affair with his coworker - but with your approval.

[stillafool]

My boyfriend is 25... I want to believe him so bad when he says it is nothing. What do you think it means when she reacted like that? Is it positive or negative? I know it's all negative... but I want to know exactly if SHE likes him... I know they flirt back and forth but it seems that most of the work is on MY BOYFRIEND... he's the one who tests the situation first!

 

I think it is positive for him and negative for you. I think this girl is a creep also. She knows he has a gf but gives you no consideration which makes me think she wants him and is enjoying all this attention from him. The fact that she doesn't try to be friendly with you is sending out more red flags. I would never cross the limits with someone else's bf the way she has unless I wanted to take him away from his gf.

[tinktronik]

My boyfriend is 25... I want to believe him so bad when he says it is nothing. What do you think it means when she reacted like that? Is it positive or negative? I know it's all negative... but I want to know exactly if SHE likes him... I know they flirt back and forth but it seems that most of the work is on MY BOYFRIEND... he's the one who tests the situation first!

It does suggest that your BF is being the aggressor. However she is participating.

Either way the bolded concerns me . You seem to be under the impression that he is waiting for her to accept before he will leave you . I am concerned that if you feel she is not into him, you will stay with him, but he is clearly into this other girl. You need to pull yourself together and make some good decisions for YOU.

The lines have clearly been crossed , 5 pg letters, "hon" comments, weekend dinner dates, WHY are you even questioning what is obvious?

[whichwayisup]

but I want to know exactly if SHE likes him...

 

Yes she does. The 5 paged letter is proof enough and the fact she spends alot of time talking with your boyfriend, let alone seeing him alot too. They are bonding and growing together, and that is time and energy taken away from you and your relationship.

[OWoman]

I think it is positive for him and negative for you. I think this girl is a creep also. She knows he has a gf but gives you no consideration which makes me think she wants him and is enjoying all this attention from him. The fact that she doesn't try to be friendly with you is sending out more red flags. I would never cross the limits with someone else's bf the way she has unless I wanted to take him away from his gf.

 

Different people have different "limits", and maybe this girls are closer to mine than to yours, SAF - I have many close male friends whose partners are not my friends (in most cases I've never met them) but whom I'm most certainly not trying to 'steal' from their SO. But that's neither here nor there - what matters are what limits the BF has set with her, and whether those are acceptable to OP (the posts suggests not) in which case OP either needs to lump it and live with it, or tell BF she's not happy with those limits and wants to negotiate new ones. Which BF an accept, or reject - in which case OP either has to lump it, or move on.

 

I don't see why this other girl's agenda is remotely relevant - would the BF's behaviour be any more acceptable (to the OP) if the girl was not a threat? Is HIS behaviour not the issue, rather than her possible response to it?

[stillwaitingonyou]

Different people have different "limits", and maybe this girls are closer to mine than to yours, SAF - I have many close male friends whose partners are not my friends (in most cases I've never met them) but whom I'm most certainly not trying to 'steal' from their SO. But that's neither here nor there - what matters are what limits the BF has set with her, and whether those are acceptable to OP (the posts suggests not) in which case OP either needs to lump it and live with it, or tell BF she's not happy with those limits and wants to negotiate new ones. Which BF an accept, or reject - in which case OP either has to lump it, or move on.

 

I don't see why this other girl's agenda is remotely relevant - would the BF's behaviour be any more acceptable (to the OP) if the girl was not a threat? Is HIS behaviour not the issue, rather than her possible response to it?

 

You make a lot of great points because I feel as though I need to know if she likes him and if she doesn't then it's all good. But then I sit and realize that I am upset with the girl because I thinks he is trying to steal him away from me...but at the end of the day, I don't know if that's even true... and what should be the most important thing about it is that he's not stopping her for either THINKING she has a chance... or even worst, he actually is going to give her a chance.

 

I really thank you guys for all your help and I AM trying to pull myself together... I just don't know, I go through these phases and I think I can get through it and wait to a certain point. But then... I have phases where I'm ready to walk.

 

Why doesn't he just leave me... I'm sure he's not going through all this.

[whichwayisup]

if she doesn't then it's all good.

 

No, it's not because HE may like her. HE is spending TOO much time with another woman PERIOD and that takes away from you and your relationship.

 

Why doesn't he just leave me... I'm sure he's not going through all this.

 

Why would he leave when right now he is TWO women in his life meeting all his needs. This guy has it made in the shade! Why give up one woman when you can have two!

[Trialbyfire]

Why doesn't he just leave me... I'm sure he's not going through all this.

My question is, why are you putting everything into his hands and control? Why aren't you shutting him down, one way or the other? Someone like this will get away with whatever they can. Why not have the best of both worlds?

[stillafool]

Different people have different "limits", and maybe this girls are closer to mine than to yours, SAF - I have many close male friends whose partners are not my friends (in most cases I've never met them) but whom I'm most certainly not trying to 'steal' from their SO.

 

I have male friends also whose gf's I am not close with, but when I meet them I go out of my way to be friendly to assure them that I am just a friend. Also my male friends and I don't write each other 5 page letters, talk on the phone every night for long periods and hang out every Sundays without our spouses or SO's. That would make anyone feel insecure.

[stillafool]

Another thing Stillwaitingonyou, if you start out chasing all the girls away he wants to explore instead of dealing with him and his behavior, this is what you can expect from marriage with this guy.

[OldMan]

I joined this forum today. I found your story so moving that I was compelled to contribute something in the hope it would help. Unfortunately I've had some experiences that relate to yours.

 

My boyfriend, before this one girl, has always flirted. He had met someone in college and she obviously had a crush on him. He totally played on that, sure, it was very long ago and definitely it was an ego boost for her and himself but I just can't shake the fact that even though his flirting had stemmed from years ago that this is just another layer.

 

I had caught him writing and email and her response... They email each other quite a bit during work because I guess their work emails get traced...

 

he said,

 

Forgive me, but I'm not 100% sure what you mean in this post. Does the conversation you quoted relate to your BF's current relationship, or this other relationship he had previously with someone from college?

 

If that conversation was with his current OW, then there's good and bad news. The good news is that they're not having sex yet: they're not at that stage, they're flirting. If they were in a physical relationship their chatter would be quite different IMHO.

 

The bad news is that he's definitely considered it. There's some emotional infidelity going on, but it's hard to say how deep it runs.

 

That's probably why he's tried laughing off your concerns, then acted a bit offended as if you don't trust him. Guys think of infidelity as physical, sexual relations. He probably figures that he's done nothing wrong... technically. But the fact that he's attracted to OW and he'd *like* to have relations with her makes him feel uncomfortable, a bit guilty.

 

Her version was just full of friendship things about how easy it is to be such good friends. Again about more death and her reassuring him that it will turn out to be a blessing and that he will eventually live to learn from his sadness rather than dwelling on it. None of which she had said anything "suggestive" that they had things going on... but there were definitely inside jokes that only those two would get.

 

If OW is young and attractive, and in a successful professional position (as you described her) then the chances are she's keeping her options open too. She might be attracted to your BF, but if after 6 months they haven't initiated a physical relationship then there's something holding things back. If he's flirting with her in this manner then it's possible he's probing the relationship; but being single and attractive OW probably has more than one guy who's interested, so she's not rushing. I can't see a very high probability that their relationship will progress to the next level, even if that's what your BF would like. This sounds like a fizzer. (But people behave differently -- I could be wrong.)

 

I have told him that I wanted to get married... he knows where I am in life and that I am getting impatient.

 

No need to rush. You've got many more years ahead of you to start a family. If you want to marry this guy because you absolutely love him and he's your soul-mate then great, that's understandable. But is that the case? Are you sure you're not being unnecessarily desperate? Or is it ego -- has his interest in a younger, more attractive woman hurt your feelings, so you feel you have to "win"? Rushing into marriage with the wrong person is a very, very bad mistake.

 

Here's a suggestion: ask him to move out (or you move out if it's his place). Don't put it as if you're ending the relationship. You've already raised the issue of marriage and he hasn't responded positively. That means that either he's not that into you, or he's too young to get committed just yet. At the moment it sounds like he's enjoying all the benefits of marriage but none of the responsibilities. If he moved out that would give him time to consider what he really feels about you -- and vice versa, it sounds like you could do with some time to decide whether he's really Mr. Right.

 

Most men won't buy the cow if they can get the milk for free.

 

You should consider the possibility that maybe he's not going to be the husband that you would like him to be. Expecting something from him that he's unwilling to give won't work out so well. Living apart would give both of you some breathing space to make the right decisions.

 

 

All the best,

Dave