Problems with boss

[Trialbyfire]

Whisteblowers? WTF are you talking about?

 

That's an awfully presumptuous statement to make about my experience, and also incorrect. You don't know what I have and haven't done. I've been directly involved in the "real" hiring practices of hundreds of employers. You? One or two or a handful (i.e., your own), at most.

Last word anyone?

 

Theory and reality are very different experiences. I've hired and fired more than enough people. Never been sued or had a disgruntled whistle blower come back. Until you've managed on an executive level within a large corporation or been a managing partner, theory doesn't cut it.

[Star Gazer]

Last word anyone?

 

Would you like to be the pot, or the kettle?

 

Theory and reality are very different experiences. I've hired and fired more than enough people. Never been sued or had a disgruntled whistle blower come back. Until you've managed on an executive level within a large corporation or been a managing partner, theory doesn't cut it.

 

How is this in any way relevant to whether or not SG should quit this job for another one and express her reasons why when she does? And why do you keep bringing up whistleblowers?? How is that in any way relevant here either? Tangential "arguments" have no place here.

 

Finally, you must have forgotten that I practice employment law exclusively. Are you an executive of an HR consulting company? Unless you are, you're in no better position to criticize my opinion. I'm not speaking of theory - but actual implementation of policies and practices and the ACTUAL ramifications of the same for HUNDREDS of companies. I don't need to be an executive of a large corporation or the managing partner of my firm to know this.

[Trialbyfire]

Would you like to be the pot, or the kettle?

 

 

 

How is this in any way relevant to whether or not SG should quit this job for another one and express her reasons why when she does? And why do you keep bringing up whistleblowers?? How is that in any way relevant here either? Tangential "arguments" have no place here.

 

Finally, you must have forgotten that I practice employment law exclusively. I'm not speaking of theory - but actual implementation of policies and practices and the ACTUAL ramifications of the same. I don't need to be an executive of a large corporation or the managing partner of my firm to know this.

I believe you're the pot!

 

Policy is created to ensure for corporate coverage from civil suit. Policy and practice can sometimes deviate, reliant on situation. It's the same as going to school. Theory and practice can greatly deviate.

 

Look backwards through this thread. You'll find who brought up the tangent...

 

Overall, it's pretty common sense not to burn your bridges with past employers whenever possible, since glowing references get you jobs and all you're getting from telling all, is a momentary satisfaction from payback. It's very petty.

[Art_Critic]

I've answered the question before about would you rehire them .. But we have a policy about not rehiring someone who has left the company...

 

If an employer who gets asked the question refuses to answer it then that in itself is the answer the asker needed to know..

 

There is always a way around asking the questions needed as well as answering in a way that you can give the proper info without the threat of a lawsuit..

[Star Gazer]

You never answered why you keep referring to whistleblowers? How is that relevant here?

 

I believe you're the pot!

 

Nice to meet you, Kettle.

 

Look backwards through this thread. You'll find who brought up the tangent...

 

You did! Post #10.

 

Overall, it's pretty common sense not to burn your bridges with past employers whenever possible, since glowing references get you jobs and all you're getting from telling all, is a momentary satisfaction from payback.

 

I agree that a glowing reference helps, but a bad reference is not necessarily "the last thing you want," which is what you said earlier. The last thing you want is to stay in a job where you're miserable and treated like crap. What you want is to leave a job with dignity, which may or may not include standing up for yourself and telling your employer the real reason why you're choosing to leave.

 

As for "telling all," IMO AND IME, it helps the employer learn WTF they're doing wrong and why they have the attrition rate they do. Given SG's work environment, if she doesn't speak up to enable change, I suspect she'll be the first in a long line of departers.

 

You can now have the floor, since I know you want it.

[Trialbyfire]

I agree that a glowing reference helps, but a bad reference is not necessarily "the last thing you want," which is what you said earlier. The last thing you want is to stay in a job where you're miserable and treated like crap. What you want is to leave a job with dignity, which may or may not include standing up for yourself and telling your employer the real reason why you're choosing to leave.

 

As for "telling all," IMO AND IME, it helps the employer learn WTF they're doing wrong and why they have the attrition rate they do. Given SG's work environment, if she doesn't speak up to enable change, I suspect she'll be the first in a long line of departers.

 

You can now have the floor, since I know you want it.

Go back and reread what I wrote. You're applying what I said to something I didn't say. I will stand firm on a bad reference being the last thing you want but it doesn't mean that she should stay in the job. Leaving a job with dignity, means getting another job and walking away. The minute you start sounding like a bitter, disgruntled employee, the less likely they will listen. Just walk away.

 

Massive turnover is very telling. No words are necessary. For every new employee, there is cost associated to the training period. Any decent, successful Executive will know this.

[Trialbyfire]

I've answered the question before about would you rehire them .. But we have a policy about not rehiring someone who has left the company...

 

If an employer who gets asked the question refuses to answer it then that in itself is the answer the asker needed to know..

 

There is always a way around asking the questions needed as well as answering in a way that you can give the proper info without the threat of a lawsuit..

*voice full of regret*

 

"While I wish I could answer all your questions, my company policy prevents me from responding to this specific question."

[MaxManwell]

Go back and reread what I wrote. You're applying what I said to something I didn't say. I will stand firm on a bad reference being the last thing you want but it doesn't mean that she should stay in the job. Leaving a job with dignity, means getting another job and walking away. The minute you start sounding like a bitter, disgruntled employee, the less likely they will listen. Just walk away.

 

Massive turnover is very telling. No words are necessary. For every new employee, there is cost associated to the training period. Any decent, successful Executive will know this.

 

I got a really, really bad reference from a very bitter and nasty boss of mine employed in a job that is really only for people who cannot find much else. I was actually told by him that I couldn't leave because it 'makes it look like no one wants to work for me'.

 

I did was not use my direct superior as a reference and put another supervisor down. They actually called the company and I recieved a call back saying 'we've just spoken to (my boss) do you have another reference'. The other references I had apparently checked out because I was offered the job.

 

If the employer is sensible and is not some bimbo HR nutter one bad reference shouldn't mean you have no chance of getting the job. Personally I'd view anything negative as pretty biased especially if the employee had a decent term working the job. I've got to wonder in some cases, why was a person kept at the company for three years if it was not a good worker ? Personal bias in a workplace setting really irritate me.

[Trialbyfire]

I got a really, really bad reference from a very bitter and nasty boss of mine employed in a job that is really only for people who cannot find much else. I was actually told by him that I couldn't leave because it 'makes it look like no one wants to work for me'.

 

I did was not use my direct superior as a reference and put another supervisor down. They actually called the company and I recieved a call back saying 'we've just spoken to (my boss) do you have another reference'. The other references I had apparently checked out because I was offered the job.

 

If the employer is sensible and is not some bimbo HR nutter one bad reference shouldn't mean you have no chance of getting the job. Personally I'd view anything negative as pretty biased especially if the employee had a decent term working the job. I've got to wonder in some cases, why was a person kept at the company for three years if it was not a good worker ? Personal bias in a workplace setting really irritate me.

From a professional hiring capacity, no one should be calling the person you listed, as your direct superior. This is due to people not being honest about who they reported to or using another employee as a "reference". They should be calling the company reception and asking for HR or whomever is responsible in the management capacity.

[MaxManwell]

From a professional hiring capacity, no one should be calling the person you listed, as your direct superior. This is due to people not being honest about who they reported to or using another employee as a "reference". They should be calling the company reception and asking for HR or whomever is responsible in the management capacity.

 

They're not really allowed to contact the employer without my permission anyway.

 

Are we confusing background checks with a reference ? To my knowledge a reference is just a person who testify to you character. I would assume not all employers are so draconian.

[MaxManwell]

I think the point was that they did contact my supervisor as well as the referee's I listed who were both actively my superior. You don't have to put your current supervisor on any job application to my knowledge. Especially if you are leaving a company because you are unhappy.Again, like I said, if you manage to avoid petty HR bimbos it isn't going to be the death of you. Coincidentally I did deal with a professional HR department, but it must have been one of the more flexible kind.

[Geishawhelk]

The Laws are different in the UK.

In supplying references you have to nominate at least two people with whom you worked or to whom you were responsible, and also the name of the head of HR.

Secondly, it is illegal to give a 'bad' reference, in writing. It could be construed as libel and therefore written references must be worded cautiously. The worst written reference anyone could give here, is:

 

"So-and-so has worked for us for X years."

 

Verbal references are less common, but not so bound by Political Correctness. However, now that more and more calls are recorded, even here, ex-employers have to tread cautiously and carefully.

 

Just adding.....

[MaxManwell]

 

"So-and-so has worked for us for X years."

 

.

 

This is what I have trouble understanding. Why should I trust the opinion of someone who kept a 'bad' employee for X number of years ? Unless you want to support oppressive management practices.

[Geishawhelk]

They wouldn't necessarily.

 

A person has to go through a standard disciplinary procedure, depending on the offences. It's not an easy task firing somebody in this country. You have to follow a standard format involving informal chats, informal warnings, verbal warnings, written warnings, suspensions and ultimately, dismissal.

The problems may not have arisen immediately, and the problems might be recent. Shoegirl's been working in her job for six months, but the problems are have only recently manifested.

The problem may not even have been there at all to begin with, but might have esclated. There might be a new employee and a clash of temperaments. or a schism in the working group, or something that an employee finds unacceptable.

If a person resigns it's another matter again.

 

Mind you, I know a person who started with a company 2 weeks ago.

She was informed on Friday to not bother coming in on Monday.

Working in her probationary period (generally 3 months, sometimes 6) she could leave with no notice. And equally, they were able to fire her without notice.

[MaxManwell]

They wouldn't necessarily.

 

A person has to go through a standard disciplinary procedure, depending on the offences. It's not an easy task firing somebody in this country. You have to follow a standard format involving informal chats, informal warnings, verbal warnings, written warnings, suspensions and ultimately, dismissal.

The problems may not have arisen immediately, and the problems might be recent. Shoegirl's been working in her job for six months, but the problems are have only recently manifested.

The problem may not even have been there at all to begin with, but might have esclated. There might be a new employee and a clash of temperaments. or a schism in the working group, or something that an employee finds unacceptable.

If a person resigns it's another matter again.

 

Mind you, I know a person who started with a company 2 weeks ago.

She was informed on Friday to not bother coming in on Monday.

Working in her probationary period (generally 3 months, sometimes 6) she could leave with no notice. And equally, they were able to fire her without notice.

 

Women can get treated pretty badly in some roles I am amazed at the sexism displayed by employers. Its just blatant but women for the most part tend to encourage such practices. If a woman really earns less than a man why would anyone ever hire a man ? The answer is that they usually don't. Does the term 'women's work' ring any bells ? I hate the way that it is more important to be liked by your boss than be able to do your job well. Superiors should be more impartial, however recent trends tend to support such workplace bullying ! Fired after two weeks... why was she even hired ? Could they not tell or test if she had the necessary skills ? They simply didn't like her in my opinion unless she lied on her resume or broke some rules.

[Geishawhelk]

She's bolshy, rude, confrontational and extremely argumentative. She's also loud, brash and opinionated.

These are not things that always obviously manifest within the constraints of an interview, where political correctness is paramount and any form of implied prejudice is to be avoided at all costs.

A prospective employer cannot even ask a young lady if she intends to start a family, as this is seen as prejudicial to her gaining long-term employment. These laws are put into place to protect the employee against unfair or constructive dismissal. but they are unfortunaly weighted against the employer.

 

She came from a job with very good credentials and qualifications. This is all that counts.

[Geishawhelk]

Women can get treated pretty badly in some roles I am amazed at the sexism displayed by employers.

 

 

This, from the same person who wrote:

 

I want to boss women around in an office

 

and -

 

I am a man I have testicles; they make me want to do things, they make me want to be dominant, especially of women.

 

On a side note: There is a reason all secretaries are female and its is because guys like me love bossing around women. Why servers, cashiers... retails, are all female and it is because men like me enjoy being jerks to women.

 

And who furthermore, having received numerous posts on his own personal situation in this thread, has studiously avoided engaging with others and replying to questions concerning his own attitude and intended actions...

[MaxManwell]

 

This, from the same person who wrote:

 

 

 

and -

 

 

 

And who furthermore, having received numerous posts on his own personal situation in this thread, has studiously avoided engaging with others and replying to questions concerning his own attitude and intended actions...

 

I'm failing to see your point. Sexism exists - women encourage it - some women deserve that treatment. Sometimes it is enjoyable to be a sexist jerk - that still does not make it right. Whoever said anyone was perfect anyway ?

[Nevermind]

It's a bit like saying "Killing is bad - hand me a rifle". Didn't you say you wanted to be a better person? Start with this.

[Cherry Blossom 35]

Women can get treated pretty badly in some roles I am amazed at the sexism displayed by employers. Its just blatant but women for the most part tend to encourage such practices. If a woman really earns less than a man why would anyone ever hire a man ? The answer is that they usually don't. Does the term 'women's work' ring any bells ? I hate the way that it is more important to be liked by your boss than be able to do your job well. Superiors should be more impartial, however recent trends tend to support such workplace bullying ! Fired after two weeks... why was she even hired ? Could they not tell or test if she had the necessary skills ? They simply didn't like her in my opinion unless she lied on her resume or broke some rules.

 

Women's work? What is this, the 1950s? Dude, catch up.

[MaxManwell]

Women's work? What is this, the 1950s? Dude, catch up.

 

Its a term to describe the clustering of women into various professions.

[Geishawhelk]

What's the term for the clustering of men into various professions...

A load of bo***cks? :lmao:

[Mary3]

There is an actual service an employee can hire who will call the former employer and take note of anything negative said about the former employee.

 

They report back to you what your employer says : " Joe really sucked at his job with us and was consistantly late " That kind of thing.

 

Not sure the name of the service but I think it was rehire.com . Something like that...

[johan]

You're lucky. My stapler is constantly in my way, and why? Because I get to decide where it goes. If you let the masses choose, then you get what you ask for. Chaos and misery.

[Mary3]

You're lucky. My stapler is constantly in my way, and why? Because I get to decide where it goes. If you let the masses choose, then you get what you ask for. Chaos and misery.

 

You're lucky. Yesterday the stapler was locked in the office. Alot of good that will do me , lol !