Pandagirl gets dumped: I'm bummed, but OK

[pandagirl]

I just wanted to say that the one thing that DOES make me mad about this breakup, is this line he said to me:

 

"Breaking up with you makes me think there is something wrong with ME. I mean, here you are this nice, wonderful girl..."

 

AH! I'm the "NICE GIRL." When the eff did THAT happen??? haha. At least I'm a "nice girl" he wanted to bone. That take some of the edge off.

[fishtaco]

Well PG, I'm one of your supporters.

 

First I believe some women CAN have sex for fun only, some other women spoke up in the thread about this as well. It's important for the woman to know if they are capable of do this, and act accordingly. But forcing this view on everyone, or insulting other women just based on this, I feel, is wrong.

 

I seriously doubt one can take an attribute such as views on sex, and blindly apply it to 100% of the population. I was used as a bedbuddy and booted later by a woman before. So immediately I can say there is at least one woman in the world that does NOT have the sex-must-be-with-committed-partner view.

 

Plus people, not just women, have different views and different needs at different times of their lives. The previously mentioned ex-bed-buddy could have adopted the sex-must-be-committed view today, because she is now at a different point in her life. Maybe PG will have another sex-only relationship next time, or maybe she'll switch to sex-must-be-committed with the next guy. It's up to her, and what her needs are. NO ONE has the right to tell her what she must do. From this thread, seems like she has gained much understanding of herself. I believe next time, PG should make a decision that's good for her, and not a decision that validates some random internet people's LS posts, including mine.

 

I'm frankly quite puzzled at all these hostility, does it come from some sort of religious basis? Seem like every time the topic of women enjoying sex for sex only comes up, it's world war 3. Can't individual women be allowed to make that decision for themselves?

 

But I feel that even the naysayers can agree. PG, even if you made a horrible decision, this was an excellent and amazing personal growth for you. Sometimes, you learn the most when you lose. But the fact that you don't feel like you lost made this experience even better. High-five from me.

[Jilly Bean]

FT - if I may, I don't think the challenges about her sleeping with him have to do with her exercising her right to get her groove on for the sake of getting laid. It's the fact that she was acting so cavalierly about someone whom she had been dating, had invested enough emotion in to create many threads over, including one days before he dropped her in which she was upset that he hadn't called her after they had been intimate). I also think some find it a bit odd and concerning (well, I do, at least), that she would sleep with someone who was rejecting her.

 

I am ALL for women getting a piece when and where they want it, so long as they are not lowering their self-esteem in the process. I have had a LOT (read: phenomenally high magic number - lol) of casual sex in my day, but I have a hard time getting my mind around how I could ever sleep with a guy FOR THE FIRST TIME who just got done telling he didn't want to date me anymore. Particularly when I was invested in him.

 

I think THAT is the issue - not her having casual booty.

[Tomcat33]

I'm frankly quite puzzled at all these hostility, does it come from some sort of religious basis? Seem like every time the topic of women enjoying sex for sex only comes up, it's world war 3. Can't individual women be allowed to make that decision for themselves?

 

 

 

For what it's worth, GREAT post.

 

And to the bolded question, for some here yes it comes from some hardcore religious beliefs which I may add fanatical or overzealous views of any kind are closer to insanity than they are to anything else.

 

That homeless dude that talks to himself everywhere he goes didn't start off talking to himself because he was easy going happy go-lucky take your life one day at a time, he became like that because he devoted too much of his thoughts on something in particular, to the point that his tunnel vision isolated him from the rest of the world and pushed him over the edge.

[pandagirl]

Honestly, I almost had sex with him on principle. The sex was fine, but not great. My ultimate reason for sleeping with him was because I hadn't slept with someone in a LONG time because of my herpes, and this was sort of a way of validating that a person does not have a problem having sex with a person who has HSV. For me, it was a very good thing.

 

plus, YES, i was extremely attracted to him.

[Cov]

I don't think there's anything wrong with a woman having multiple sexual partners, just as long as they stay away from me. Though in Panda's case she had sex because she hadn't had it in a while. We all get sexually frustrated and need an outlet, sometimes masturbation just isn't enough.

[fishtaco]

FT - if I may, I don't think the challenges about her sleeping with him have to do with her exercising her right to get her groove on for the sake of getting laid. It's the fact that she was acting so cavalierly about someone whom she had been dating, had invested enough emotion in to create many threads over, including one days before he dropped her in which she was upset that he hadn't called her after they had been intimate). I also think some find it a bit odd and concerning (well, I do, at least), that she would sleep with someone who was rejecting her.

 

I am ALL for women getting a piece when and where they want it, so long as they are not lowering their self-esteem in the process. I have had a LOT (read: phenomenally high magic number - lol) of casual sex in my day, but I have a hard time getting my mind around how I could ever sleep with a guy FOR THE FIRST TIME who just got done telling he didn't want to date me anymore. Particularly when I was invested in him.

 

I think THAT is the issue - not her having casual booty.

 

Well I didn't have a problem with your posts, you didn't insult PG. But in response to your post (Sorry PG, I'm going make some guesses here about you, correct me I'm wrong):

 

1 - Why is it connected to the lowering of self esteem? You mentioned yourself you enjoyed casual sex. But those were okay because you were not interested in the guys. So if one of those guys were interested in something more with you and was disappointed that you wanted sex only, but had sex with you anyway, now they have low self-esteem? To me I call that getting what I can get before it ends.

 

2 - People change their minds all the time. To me it feels like women do that more often, but my views are probably biased because I don't date men. Either way there's no denying it. Maybe PG changed her mind? I've had women that seemed to be into me disappear for no reason. I don't chase them down and point my finger and say you suck. I just shrug and move on, I accept it as part of dating. In this case maybe PG lost interest and realized that there were only physical chemistry but no emotional chemistry.

 

3 - PG herself mentioned that she realized a lot of the early on issues were her and not the guy. Maybe she was only "invested" because she didn't want to "lose", not because she wanted the guy. Then she had the revelation, and that investment became moot and pointless. The only thing left was the physical attraction, hence the casual sex.

 

4 - When you had your casual sex, I'm sure it was understood that you don't want to date the guy, and the guy didn't want to date you, hence it stayed casual. In this case, instead of "understood", it was said out loud. But the brutal honesty was needed in PG's situation, it actually helped her deal with some of the issues she had. So from what can I see, PG's situation only differs from yours in terms of presentation. The undercurrent is exactly the same -- not enough chemistry for dating, just want sex.

 

Anyway, this is just IMHO. I brought up some counter points, maybe valid, maybe not. Feel free to shoot them down.

[Untouchable_Fire]

I have had a LOT (read: phenomenally high magic number - lol) of casual sex in my day, but I have a hard time getting my mind around how I could ever sleep with a guy FOR THE FIRST TIME who just got done telling he didn't want to date me anymore.

 

While I completely and utterly agree with what your saying here... I just have to admit that a woman having a really high "magic number" is really, really gross.

 

Which perhaps feeds into why I just feel that Panda hooking up with this guy seems sad... not cathartic.

[pandagirl]

fishtaco:

 

2 - Exactly, there was no emotional chemistry. That was the key problem. The entire time I was dating him, it felt like I was dating a good friend who I wanted to make out with all the time (he's hot!). However, I am now aware that emotional chemistry can develop if you are open to it.

 

3 - I was invested because in prior relationships, I have always either self-sabotaged the situation, or not even bothered getting involved in fear of getting hurt. During this experience, I wanted to push my boundaries and go against my natural extincts. Last week, I even told my friend that I should just break-up with me, because things weren't progressing the way I wanted them to, but since the "giving up/what's the point" attitude is such a pattern of my behavior, I decided to stick it out, relax, and see what could develop.

[pandagirl]

FT - I also think some find it a bit odd and concerning (well, I do, at least), that she would sleep with someone who was rejecting her.

 

I am ALL for women getting a piece when and where they want it, so long as they are not lowering their self-esteem in the process. I have had a LOT (read: phenomenally high magic number - lol) of casual sex in my day, but I have a hard time getting my mind around how I could ever sleep with a guy FOR THE FIRST TIME who just got done telling he didn't want to date me anymore. Particularly when I was invested in him.

 

I would have NEVER slept with him if i felt like I was falling in love with him. nevernevernever. That would have been a bonehead move. But I wasn't.

[Cov]

Calm down Panda, you aren't at the Nuremberg Trials standing trial.

[dogtown]

4 - When you had your casual sex, I'm sure it was understood that you don't want to date the guy, and the guy didn't want to date you, hence it stayed casual. In this case, instead of "understood", it was said out loud. But the brutal honesty was needed in PG's situation, it actually helped her deal with some of the issues she had. So from what can I see, PG's situation only differs from yours in terms of presentation. The undercurrent is exactly the same -- not enough chemistry for dating, just want sex.

 

 

Well said. I agree. Panda just verbalized what you (JB) didn't when you had casual sex.

[Jilly Bean]

Yeah, I guess I can't get past the part of having a guy dump me to my face and then jump in the sack with him moments later. I still have a hard time believing PG that she was so disinvested from this guy, when three days prior to the dumping, she started a thread for being upset that he didn't call her or return her messages after they were intimate. If she were *that* into him to care enough about why he was or wasn't calling, I have to think there was more there than she let on here.

 

There are PLENTY of guys to casually screw out there, I just could never see myself having sex with someone who rejected me and told me I was not dateable, but my vag was worth taking. As someone else said on here, I think he took advantage of knowing how vulnerable she was on this issue and she agreed because sleeping with him somehow validated her worth on some level and made the rejection less painful. I mean, she posted again today about comments he made about her. Clearly this is something still weighing on her mind...

 

I am ALL for female empowerment when it comes to sexuality and getting a little something something, but only when the woman is calling the shots. I mean, she even titled the thread - SHE GOT DUMPED. It's not like she even views it as a mutual breakup, and this is what is bothersome to me. PG DOES seem to NOT be the type to pump and dump, and that she is seeking something deeper. Which is why I am surprised she hopped in bed so easily, and also after he said later.

[pandagirl]

I understand your take on the situation, with me posting other threads and sounding insecure, but I need to repeat that insecurity is my bread and butter and it's why I'm in therapy. I also have a history with depression, severe low-self esteem and general unhappiness (I sound a barrell of sunshine, don't I?). I become insecure about everything. A little voice in my head has always told me: "you're not good enough," "there's is something wrong with you," "you did something to make this happen."

 

I take things that people say about me, and scrunitize and analyze them to death, usually to make myself feel bad. For instance, in college when I got critiqued on a paper I wrote by a professor, though it was a normal evalution and the professor was nice, I would start crying because hearing negative comments was so painful for me, and I automatically thought I was stupidest person alive and worthless.

 

So it's more like, how do I explain this...though I wasn't emotionally invested in this guy, I still took his words personally and used them as a way to make myself feel bad. Because, it's simply what I do, but therapy has helped me loads in correcting this cognitive behavior.

[Jilly Bean]

So then are you saying that you sleeping with him was a way to, in fact, minimize the bad feelings his rejection left you with?

 

BTW - I applaud you for your honesty. It's what I suspected was lurking below the surface.

 

And I happen to find self-awareness VERY attractive in people, so yes, I would probably think you are still a barrel of fun.

 

We ALL have our ****, PG. It just defines us on how we choose to process and cope with it. BUT, I think your enlightenment shows that you are fully capable and committed to overcoming your issues. Good for you!

[Tomcat33]

There are PLENTY of guys to casually screw out there, I just could never see myself having sex with someone who rejected me and told me I was not dateable, but my vag was worth taking. As someone else said on here, I think he took advantage of knowing how vulnerable she was on this issue and she agreed because sleeping with him somehow validated her worth on some level and made the rejection less painful. I mean, she posted again today about comments he made about her. Clearly this is something still weighing on her mind...

 

 

 

Yes, for the type of woman that does not have a transmitable STD the possibilites are endless if you we want. But when you have to preempt a night of fun with "oh by the way...." it does complicate things not to mention takes out the fun and sponteneaty out of it.

 

Also let's not forget that even though the chemistry wasn't all there either way, there was a little foundation of trust that was built since they were hanging out for a bit so it makes it easier for her to break the news to a guy without him judeging her and makins assumptions about her that are wrong.

 

But we have to commed PG on being honest with men, that in and of itself is quite admirable. Some azzholes out there would keep it to themselves and just go along with it and figure "oh well I didn't ask for this so why should I warn men about it" She is doing the right thing and that deserves praise.

[D-Lish]

So then are you saying that you sleeping with him was a way to, in fact, minimize the bad feelings his rejection left you with?

 

BTW - I applaud you for your honesty. It's what I suspected was lurking below the surface.

 

And I happen to find self-awareness VERY attractive in people, so yes, I would probably think you are still a barrel of fun.

 

We ALL have our ****, PG. It just defines us on how we choose to process and cope with it. BUT, I think your enlightenment shows that you are fully capable and committed to overcoming your issues. Good for you!

 

I have read what you said Jilly, and if this was a more normal situation (without the H involved), I would agree with most of what you said. I think it would be pretty traumatizing to get the diagnosis Panda did... and this guy was the first guy she felt worthy of explaining her situation to. I imagine there was so much turmoil and fear and insecurity going on here... pretty freakin' scary to reveal yourself in such a way, putting yourself on a pedestal to be judged.

 

I think the sex was more of a cathartic release on Panda's part. It's a way of confirming someone knows I have this thing looming over me and still wants to sleep with me (ie: I am not untouchable).

 

It might just have been an "ice breaker" relationship that helps her deal with the next one.

 

I've had casual encounters- and cathartic sex before as well.

Cathartic sex is kinda good actually.

 

I see it as something Panda maybe felt she had to do... a stepping stone in the process of dealing with the H.

[Tomcat33]

D-Lish HA! we posted almost the same thing at the same time

[hip chick]

I don't understand why you would be insulted by being called a "nice girl."

 

I just wanted to say that the one thing that DOES make me mad about this breakup, is this line he said to me:

 

"Breaking up with you makes me think there is something wrong with ME. I mean, here you are this nice, wonderful girl..."

 

AH! I'm the "NICE GIRL." When the eff did THAT happen??? haha. At least I'm a "nice girl" he wanted to bone. That take some of the edge off.

[pandagirl]

I have read what you said Jilly, and if this was a more normal situation (without the H involved), I would agree with most of what you said. I think it would be pretty traumatizing to get the diagnosis Panda did... and this guy was the first guy she felt worthy of explaining her situation to. I imagine there was so much turmoil and fear and insecurity going on here... pretty freakin' scary to reveal yourself in such a way, putting yourself on a pedestal to be judged.

 

I think the sex was more of a cathartic release on Panda's part. It's a way of confirming someone knows I have this thing looming over me and still wants to sleep with me (ie: I am not untouchable).

 

It might just have been an "ice breaker" relationship that helps her deal with the next one.

 

I've had casual encounters- and cathartic sex before as well.

Cathartic sex is kinda good actually.

 

I see it as something Panda maybe felt she had to do... a stepping stone in the process of dealing with the H.

 

Well put, Dlish!

 

I feel like everything happens for a reason. Though he broke it off with me, I feel extremely lucky to have met him at this point in my life. Let's face it: most relationships don't work out, and he is the first guy I've dated in about four years. Still, this completely random guy came into my life and we were able to establish a relationship based on friendship, honesty, and communication in such a short period of time. He was accepting, understanding and kind about me having herpes, and never made me feel like I was less of a person for having it.

 

Yes, this may have been the best practice relationship ever.

 

And, seriously, thank you to everyone who has been so supportive of me. I feel like you guys really care about me!

[D-Lish]

Well put, Dlish!

 

I feel like everything happens for a reason. Though he broke it off with me, I feel extremely lucky to have met him at this point in my life. Let's face it: most relationships don't work out, and he is the first guy I've dated in about four years. Still, this completely random guy came into my life and we were able to establish a relationship based on friendship, honesty, and communication in such a short period of time. He was accepting, understanding and kind about me having herpes, and never made me feel like I was less of a person for having it.

 

Yes, this may have been the best practice relationship ever.

 

And, seriously, thank you to everyone who has been so supportive of me. I feel like you guys really care about me!

 

Well you are cared about babe...

You did a tough and honourable thing.

 

I imagine the process will only get easier from here!

You still don't have PM eh?

[Star Gazer]

Why is it that a woman can never just want sex for sex. Why is it impossible to believe that she had sex with him because that's what she wanted? Why does it have to be attached to low self esteem or the desire to fulfill a deeper need?

 

Seriously!!

 

It's the fact that she was acting so cavalierly about someone whom she had been dating, had invested enough emotion in to create many threads over, including one days before he dropped her in which she was upset that he hadn't called her after they had been intimate).

 

It's called EGO. No one likes being dumped or avoided or blown off, ESPECIALLY if it's by someone you yourself aren't all that into to begin with (as was the case with PG).

 

I also think some find it a bit odd and concerning (well, I do, at least), that she would sleep with someone who was rejecting her.

 

I am ALL for women getting a piece when and where they want it, so long as they are not lowering their self-esteem in the process. I have had a LOT (read: phenomenally high magic number - lol) of casual sex in my day, but I have a hard time getting my mind around how I could ever sleep with a guy FOR THE FIRST TIME who just got done telling he didn't want to date me anymore.

 

But she didn't want to date him either, so what's wrong with that?

 

Yeah, I guess I can't get past the part of having a guy dump me to my face and then jump in the sack with him moments later.

 

Again, she wasn't all that into him either - so what's the problem??

 

I am ALL for female empowerment when it comes to sexuality and getting a little something something, but only when the woman is calling the shots.

 

Wow. Talk about a double standard.

 

But what about MUTUAL "shots," as was the case here? Before you say he was the one who technically "dumped" her because he brought the subject up that was on BOTH of their minds, why are you so he!! bent on seeing this situation as anything less than one of free choice by PG? She called a shot alright - to get laid.

 

I get it, PG. I get it all.

[Jilly Bean]

SG - because less than three weeks ago she was talking about him and describing him as the greatest guy she had met in 6 years, that she didn't want to invest in him, but he was so wonderful, that she say long-term potential, etc. It wasn't until he said goodbye that she claimed she wasn't feeling it either. Three days before he dumped her she was posting here wondering why he hadn't called. THAT is not the words of a woman who seems like she could have casual sex with this person and then write it off easily.

 

Plus, her comments about twisting his words to feel badly about herself makes me think she slept with him to ease those feelings. Like it would somehow prove to her that she was worthy, even if he was rejecting her.

 

I don't think this is quite as cut and dry as you are making it, and her recent posts are revealing more of the underlying pathology that supports this.

 

D - I hear ya, sister. I AM holding her to the same standards of someone who doesn't have the H. But, I thought that was the whole point of this thread? To point out that people with H should have the same opportunities and options as those without. I don't think it's in anyone's best interest who has an STD to think they should take what they can get because of their situation. I have to wonder if she wasn't infected, would she have made the same choice to sleep with him? Would she have if she hadn't of allowed his words to make her feel badly about herself, therefore needing some type of reassurance from him (ie. sex)?

[dreamergrl]

JMO but I don't think it was so much that PG was so into this guy, she was dealing with dating w/hsv and getting back into the playing field. I think she was dealing with her insecurities of dating with hsv. It's not wrong that she slept with him knowing they were going to break up because she now knows and can feel confident that despite what she has, she can still be desired by a man. She can know that the stigmata of dating with an STD doesn't have to effect her love life or sex life as much as it's conceived to be so wrong. PG over came something that was difficult for her. I applaud her and her strength.

[notgoodatthis]

Pandagirl,

 

Will you always have to use condoms when having sex or will you ever feel it's ok to have unprotected sex? Please keep us posted.