Author mixwell Posted June 1, 2008 Author Posted June 1, 2008 I think some people are missing the point that this guy wouldn't even be here complaining or hessitating about asking this girl out on another date had she been a little more appreciative of him. "Thank-you" goes a long way, believe me I speak from experience, I have never gone out with a guy who didn't INSIST on paying even after years of being together. If you make a guy feel like you appreciate what he does for you he WILL bend over backwards for you. Wouldn't you? Positive reinforcement goes a long way, a lot further than anything you can buy. Every man has the potential to be a gentleman provided he encounters a lady. Golddiggers are a dime a dozen and a true gentleman keeps his antenae up to avoid those. Thank you for not having selective reading ^_^..
Author mixwell Posted June 1, 2008 Author Posted June 1, 2008 So we went out again tonight to the movies again to see The Strangers (kind of lame ending i m o) Again I didn't receive any thank you (I got a I had fun tonight at the end) and I didn't bring up anything about her paying her portion nor mention anything from the last date. I paid for everything this time without any mention of her paying for her 1/2 of anything.. My question is since she is showing interest (a lot of body contact, holding hands, her wanted me to feel her leg for some random reason, rubbing my hand when we are holding hands and rubbing my arm, a lot of tapping when jokes are made) why when I go in for the kiss I get the old turn the cheek routine ? She did that after I walked her to her car and tried to kiss her and then I gave her a curious (exaggerated) look and she comes back and kisses me on the lips real quick before she leaves.. Seems like she is interested but why not the kiss ? I don't think I've gone on 2 dates and not gotten to make out with a girl (assuming she is interested). Kinda seems like she could be using me and isn't interested enough to take it there but shows signs to keep my there to potentially keep paying for dates. (Sorry if I'm jumping to conclusions haha) I'm only putting up with this because this is the first chick that I have actually had a higher interest level in compared to other females I have dated in the past. I guess I could just keeping winging it and see what happens but this is a complete 180 from the other girls I have dated in the past. PS. The people that think I'm clueless for not doing all these "gentleman" like things. Its not that I'm clueless but I see a lot of men getting taken advantage of for being a gentleman and you cannot argue that. No woman respects a man that gives her everything she wants and has no backbone. After all there is a reason why MOST (not all) woman don't like nice guys and it is because the lack of challenge. I kind of feel like doing everything she wants makes me less of a challenge to her which would in turn make her get bored of me. MOST (not all) woman like a challenge and like to persue whether they will admit it or not. Anyways thats all for now.. Peace
Author mixwell Posted June 1, 2008 Author Posted June 1, 2008 See, honestly, if you treated me like this, I would think you were a total dick and had NO respect for women. Why do you seem to have such issues with doing NICE things for a girl on a date? Well, we weren't there to see it all go down. I know I expect a lot from a date, but I also am very appreciative and verbal about it. I expect courtship, not "hanging out" and being treated like one of the guys or a hook-up. Generally speaking when you are NICE and very outgoing it sometimes is taken as a sign of weakness. Some girls thrive on seeing how high they can get a guy to jump for them and see what they can get away with. The difference you said yourself "I also am very appreciative and verbal about it" which I'm totally down with and wouldn't have had such an issue had that been done. Okay I'm seriously done for the night I'm dead tired.. Hope to hear some feedback manana. Peace
TiffanyLove Posted June 1, 2008 Posted June 1, 2008 PS. The people that think I'm clueless for not doing all these "gentleman" like things. Its not that I'm clueless but I see a lot of men getting taken advantage of for being a gentleman and you cannot argue that. No woman respects a man that gives her everything she wants and has no backbone. After all there is a reason why MOST (not all) woman don't like nice guys and it is because the lack of challenge. I kind of feel like doing everything she wants makes me less of a challenge to her which would in turn make her get bored of me. MOST (not all) woman like a challenge and like to persue whether they will admit it or not. Anyways thats all for now.. Peace I absolutely agree with you. Compliments and gratitude go a long way. "I had fun tonight" could just as easily have been "Thank you for tonight. I had fun." I think that a person should acknowledge and appreciate when someone (anyone) spends money on them. A dating situation is no different than your friend buying you lunch. You would acknowledge it and show gratitude. I also don't believe it should be 'expected' that simply because you're a man you should pay for dates (though personally I prefer when a man does). On the same note, I don't think it should be 'expected' that she kiss you after a date or two simply because you took her out. Just go with it, drop the expectations, and truly relate with one another respectfully.
Jilly Bean Posted June 1, 2008 Posted June 1, 2008 Generally speaking when you are NICE and very outgoing it sometimes is taken as a sign of weakness. Some girls thrive on seeing how high they can get a guy to jump for them and see what they can get away with. The difference you said yourself "I also am very appreciative and verbal about it" which I'm totally down with and wouldn't have had such an issue had that been done. Okay I'm seriously done for the night I'm dead tired.. Hope to hear some feedback manana. Peace And I agree - ever since I was a young child, I would even thank my DAD for buying the family dinner if we went out! Heck, I STILL thank him if we go for ice cream and he pays! It's just how I am. I like to acknowledge kindness... So this is now two dates and you are still feeling that she is using you because she is not saying thank you. I think you should honestly stop dating her, as from date one you have convinced yourself she is a user, and that sentiment isn't going to change. Perhaps she is, perhaps she doesn't have good breeding. Either way, you've already made your decision on her. Move on.
Mahatma Posted June 1, 2008 Posted June 1, 2008 I think the way she sees it is she isn't worth a 15-20 minute drive. If it is only date 2, I think you should be the one to pick her up and pay. Later, once you two are a couple, I think it is only fair to share some payments. It also depends where you are going. If you go to a really nice restaurant and the tab is rather large, she should be the one to chip in a little, but you should never have to ask. If she just assumes you should do everything for her and she is just along for the ride, its time to drop her and move on. She is probably used to guys doing everything for her because of her looks.
Tomcat33 Posted June 1, 2008 Posted June 1, 2008 I also don't believe it should be 'expected' that simply because you're a man you should pay for dates (though personally I prefer when a man does). On the same note, I don't think it should be 'expected' that she kiss you after a date or two simply because you took her out. Just go with it, drop the expectations, and truly relate with one another respectfully. Tiffany gave you some excellent advice Mixwell, I say go with it too. You are too caught up now in trying to see if she is going to take advantage of you that you you see everything as a sign that she is using you. There is nothing wrong with her not wanting to kiss you on a second date she may be one of those smart girls who wants to get to know you first before she gest intimate with you. Don't worry if the kiss isn't there yet more importantly, how does she treat you when you are out together is she into you, does she take interest in you ask about you, does she seem like she flirts with you and smile a lot (you already told us she does get touchy feeling so yes) does she think about you when you are not together, ie text email or call you when she doesn't hear from you and most importantly does she still want to see you when you ask her out? Those are all important clues leading into what a girl is feeling when she is with you. If you want, you can plan a date that doesn't require spending $$ on your part, and that is how you can see if she wants to spend time with you.
Author mixwell Posted June 1, 2008 Author Posted June 1, 2008 Tiffany gave you some excellent advice Mixwell, I say go with it too. You are too caught up now in trying to see if she is going to take advantage of you that you you see everything as a sign that she is using you. There is nothing wrong with her not wanting to kiss you on a second date she may be one of those smart girls who wants to get to know you first before she gest intimate with you. Don't worry if the kiss isn't there yet more importantly, how does she treat you when you are out together is she into you, does she take interest in you ask about you, does she seem like she flirts with you and smile a lot (you already told us she does get touchy feeling so yes) does she think about you when you are not together, ie text email or call you when she doesn't hear from you and most importantly does she still want to see you when you ask her out? Those are all important clues leading into what a girl is feeling when she is with you. If you want, you can plan a date that doesn't require spending $$ on your part, and that is how you can see if she wants to spend time with you. Yea I am over analyzing everything and I'm being a little defensive I guess. The reason I thought we would make out or kiss was because I've noticed that in the movies when we talk she gets really close to my face kinda like she is hinting she wants to kiss. She treats me well when we are out and seems to show a lot of interest. All of the indicators of interest are there body contact, caressing, laughing at most of my jokes, we will often make eye contact and hold it for like 5 seconds or so. Quite often she will text me out of the blue first thing in the day which would lead me to believe she was obviously thinking about me which would lead me to think she is genuine in her being interested in me. Yesterday when we were holding hands in the car she was caressing y arm with her other arm while we were talking. If I had to sum up my thoughts on why I felt like I was getting used it would be because she seems too good/ interested in me to be true. Its lame that I think there is another motif for her because I find it hard to believe that a girl like her would be interested in me. Its retarded to think that but the last few girls I've dated weren't really a challenge to me to be honest. I got what I wanted I guess and ended up bored with them due to clingy and them doing what I wanted to. Very ironic to be the other person in that situation. To be honest it feels really refreshing to be seeing/hanging out with a girl that I am very interested in for once rather than just seeing how quick I can get some because of lack of high interest. I really appreciate ALL of the advice from everyone. Gives me more perspective than my own views and what my friends think about the scenario. (My friend was telling me shes immature and was using me and its a waste of time so I kinda used that with my own instincts) I really hope things turn out well with this girl. I don't really care about how long it would take to get more intimate because I really like her but she has very nice big beautiful lips that I want to kiss soooo bad.. haha
Jilly Bean Posted June 1, 2008 Posted June 1, 2008 I find it hard to believe that a girl like her would be interested in me. This is really why you keep trying to sabotage it, and convince yourself she is a rotten person.
White Flower Posted June 1, 2008 Posted June 1, 2008 This is really why you keep trying to sabotage it, and convince yourself she is a rotten person. This makes sense. Try not to have a self-fufilled prophesy.
Author mixwell Posted June 2, 2008 Author Posted June 2, 2008 This makes sense. Try not to have a self-fufilled prophesy. Yea I don't really have self esteem issues and I know I'm a decent looking guy although I could lose a little weight and I have a great personality. I guess my train of thinking is out of whack since I'm really feeling this girl. I need to chill out. The scary thing is that I keep thinking about her and I haven't done that in a long time with a girl !!
Jilly Bean Posted June 2, 2008 Posted June 2, 2008 Then why not try and think the best of her and that it can work out, rather than trying to put her in a box because of a few missteps she has taken? Agreed she should be more appreciative, but it sounds like she is very interested, albeit a bit ill-mannered. Just take a deep breath and try not to ruin it for yourself.
White Flower Posted June 2, 2008 Posted June 2, 2008 Yea I don't really have self esteem issues and I know I'm a decent looking guy although I could lose a little weight and I have a great personality. I guess my train of thinking is out of whack since I'm really feeling this girl. I need to chill out. The scary thing is that I keep thinking about her and I haven't done that in a long time with a girl !! Then chill and have fun!
Tomcat33 Posted June 2, 2008 Posted June 2, 2008 Its lame that I think there is another motif for her because I find it hard to believe that a girl like her would be interested in me. Its retarded to think that but the last few girls I've dated weren't really a challenge to me to be honest. I got what I wanted I guess and ended up bored with them due to clingy and them doing what I wanted to. Very ironic to be the other person in that situation. To be honest it feels really refreshing to be seeing/hanging out with a girl that I am very interested in for once rather than just seeing how quick I can get some because of lack of high interest. Very important reflections you have made here Mixwell, it means your interests levels have peaked consdierably for this girl because she is making you "work" for her. Men feel mostly in their element when they are actively pursuing, and trying to win over a woman, within reason of course but this is playing out exactly the way nature intended for it. The mating game is instinctual not fabricated. However what to do with all these new uneasy emotions right? Mixwell the motif is what YOU are imagening in your head it is not necessarily based in any cold hard facts and your thoughts are controlling your feelings. Do me a favour Write on a peice of paper 7 columns 1st column state the situation so basically what your concern is (that this girl is taking you for a ride she is using you etc) 2.. write out what you feel when you think about this girl's motives and rate it with a number from 1 -100% in terms of 1 being a good feeling and 100% being a VERY negative feeling. 3.rd column write out what feelings you had before you came to the conclusion in column #1 (angry, stupid...etc) 4. write out all the evidence that would support # 3 ie. she didnt say thank you on the first date, etc. 5. now write out the evidence that DOES NOT support #3 so anything that supports that what you are thinking is NOT based on facts but rather on your own thinking (basically all the postive things you wrote on the post above she flirts with me, she is very touchy feely she texts me a lot when I am not around her etc) 6. write out an alternative thought that supports # 5 example, (maybe I am just reading into things, maybe I am just scared because I really like her and want her to like me too and she is really not that bad etc.) 7. Now lastly rate how you are feeling now after doing the exercise in a % from 1% to 100% 1 bieng the good and 100% being the worst. Once you have sat down and done this carefully and given it some thought come back and tell us what was your % for # 2 is and then the percentage for # 7 is, once you finished the exercise. Once you do that I'll give you the conclusion to the exercise.
Author mixwell Posted June 2, 2008 Author Posted June 2, 2008 1st column state the situation so basically what your concern is (that this girl is taking you for a ride she is using you etc) My situation is that I am not normally expected to pay for 100 percent of dates in the beginning. I felt like at that point I was being used but due to some other input form posters I feel like it could be the natural way the dating scene works. I feel that she could not be using me because of her showing signs of interest and texting me in the mornings which would imply that she is not using me. 2.. write out what you feel when you think about this girl's motives and rate it with a number from 1 -100% in terms of 1 being a good feeling and 100% being a VERY negative feeling. Initially when I thought of this girls motives I got angry and defensive thinking that I was getting used. I had a 80% neg feeling but with the signs of interest it dropped to 20% 3.rd column write out what feelings you had before you came to the conclusion in column #1 (angry, stupid...etc) When I jumped the gun and came to the conclusion that she was using me it saddened and angered me because once I found out she was attractive (I've met girls online that seemed cute but weren't and she is a cool chick. I figured that she would be able to get a "buff" hot guy and that she is using me because she knows she is cute. Although initially I believe it was my personality and flirting/teasing that attracted her. I know that woman love a guy that makes them laugh and has a personality but I still have a hard time accepting that you don't have to be a super model stud to get an attractive girl. (My faulty thinking patterns of course) 4. write out all the evidence that would support # 3 ie. she didnt say thank you on the first date, etc. My ONLY evidence to support #3 was that she didn't say thank you after I picked her up, bought the tickets, snacks and dinner led me to think she didn't appreciate my efforts. When I asked her to drive down and she refused led me to think she wasn't interested in me enough to drive and see me. 5. now write out the evidence that DOES NOT support #3 so anything that supports that what you are thinking is NOT based on facts but rather on your own thinking (basically all the postive things you wrote on the post above she flirts with me, she is very touchy feely she texts me a lot when I am not around her etc) Okay first of all before meeting she would call me QT, babe etc (we have a joke about how we are getting married and calling each other babe and honey. One the first date she said when she got in the car "So do I get a hug?" She has no problem with me having my hand on her leg and she seems to get really close to my face when we were talking at the movies. I find often we stare into each others eyes and hold contact for 5 sec or more. When we held hands she was caressing my arm with her other hand while we were talking. She also seems to notice my features (I blink a lot due to my eyes getting very dry and she noticed I have thin lips) She has texted me on more than 1 occasion in the morning to say have an awesome day at work. I was sitting with my left leg crossed over my other leg at the movies and she mentioned that it made her want to sit like that for some reason. She also seems to stand really close to me or make sure at some points when walking together that we bump into each other. Through texting (other days and earlier today) she says well call me later if you want to with a winking face after. ::: Off topic but I can't help but wonder why with all these signs she would have turned her cheek when I went to kiss her and then kissed me on the lips real quick. I know some girls take longer to be intimate and she might not want to give me the goods soo early on so I can understand that but I think this is the 1st time in my dating career that this has happened::: (I know I have to be really interested in this girl to remember almost ever little indicator of interest and little thing she does . 6. write out an alternative thought that supports # 5 example, (maybe I am just reading into things, maybe I am just scared because I really like her and want her to like me too and she is really not that bad etc.) Maybe she is really interested in me and wants to make sure that I am interested in her enough to put in effort to persue her. I think that there is a possibility I am putting a defensive shield to try to block all signs of bullshit and try to force her to prove that she is really interested in me which I am now thinking might not be a good idea. I see a lot of guys giving into women too much and I think its my natural defense to question everything and avoid signs of getting used and let down. I need to learn more of a common ground and avoid it but not be on the defense all the time. I admit I am not used to a lot of resistance to girls giving in and putting in some effort to hang out together which initially led me to believe I was getting taken for a ride but this might be her "test" to see if I am legit or if I am just trying to get into her pants. Usually at this stage (2nd date) I've already made out with a girl if not more and start to work into going further but with this girl (although I would like to get the making out portion out of the way) I am totally fine with just being able to kiss her.. She has such nice lips !! OMG I can't stress this enough haha.. I rarely study all of a girls little features unless I am really interested. Other girls I would literally think "shes not looking I will just hook up with her and eventually see if I can sleep with them" Don't get me wrong the other girls SEEMED cool and layed back while being okay looking but eventually it got to the point where one girl literally thought I was avoiding her because I didn't talk to her for 1 day and admitted that she was at home waiting for me to call and see if we could hangout (She literally said that to me) Huge turn off and seemed very needy/desperate. I know how females feel now when a guy is too interested and shows it. I am really interested in this chick but I don't really want to show it all at once. :: off topic:: through texting today I asked again if she had fun and she said yea. She mentioned a few times that I was quiet at times in the car but we were looking for a pizza place to eat at and couldn't find any. I told her "I still enjoyed driving around aimlessly with you to find a pizza place. (It was 12:30am and I was pretty sure none were open) She said "aww how sweet" so I think I earned some points there haha.. Okay I really rambled on about this question and I apologize. 7. Now lastly rate how you are feeling now after doing the exercise in a % from 1% to 100% 1 bieng the good and 100% being the worst. Right now I am feeling 15% (85% good) because I still have a little doubt but now that I have rationalized and taken an open look at all the scenarios and analyzed everything I can think of it I really do believe that she is genuinely into me but I still have a little doubt that there MIGHT be a chance she could be using me but those thoughts are kind of fading away. I really think that if she was only into me to use me that she would but on the "interested" act when we hung out and not continue it through text since she knows (today) for example that we are not going to hang out. In conclusion I am now going to be optimistic about the situation and I am interested in this girl enough to continue and see where things might lead. I will still keep a minor bull**** detector and observe signs that might tell me she is not interested in me. I hope things turn out for the best. The only thing I know is that A LOT of females that are 19-21 can be very wishy washy and I've seen a lot of personal experience with friends and friends g/fs when they hit 21 and want to go crazy but have the b/f. A lot of times they break up with them so then go buck wild and I shouldn't even be worried about that because I am confident that I have the tools and personality to keep a girl interested in me and not lose interest. I haven't had a questionaire this difficult since high school finals but I'm glad I took the time to sit, think, and really express my ideas on the questions. Thanks Tomcat
Tomcat33 Posted June 2, 2008 Posted June 2, 2008 WOW Mixwell not only did you do a significant turnaround in your feeling/thought patter you came back and posted the whole questionaire here for us to see, good on ya!! So you went from 80% of feeling negative to significant drop of 20% of feeling good once you layed out your thoughts on paper and RATIONALISED your mood. FANTASTIC! What I wanted to demonstrate to you is that YOU control your mood with your thought pattern. When you came back to post about why this girl makes you feel so out of whack you basically just spelled out infront of you why this girl makes you feel this way, and it is not so much the girl as it turns out but your own negative thoughts that are making you FEEL what you feel. I am glad you understood the exercise and any time you are feeling "out of control" in mood and thought play out the feelings VS thoughts and you will see or be able to rationlise how much of it is based on reality and how much of it is based simply on that silly demon voice we all carry inside.
Tomcat33 Posted June 2, 2008 Posted June 2, 2008 She mentioned a few times that I was quiet at times in the car but we were looking for a pizza place to eat at and couldn't find any. I told her "I still enjoyed driving around aimlessly with you to find a pizza place See she questions your interest level too. All good signs my friend!
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