Tomcat33 Posted May 29, 2008 Posted May 29, 2008 Tomcat AND Owl: You guys are a hoot...no pun intended! You sound like the married couple! Both sets of advice are good, but which is right for me? Find a path, make a plan, find out why first....it all just wants to make me sit somewhere and cry for about three weeks. I don't know what to do at all! I haven't had much luck figuring out why I have done anything in life so i don't know why all of a sudden I would have clarity on this, but on the other hand, many decisions I have made have been impulsive or hasty and no good came from those either. Maybe I should listen to the silence. I think it is a cryout.....but if anything a cry to myself. Of course, he is not uninvolved being my husband and all....but I must have acted out of character like this for some other reason. I can't seem to get clearheaded on this at all. The dust from the other issues must settle . I don't see how any practical or logical decision can be made in my state and with so many other complicating factors that were not covered in Chapter One of my book! I know I tend to prattle. "Hiss hiss meow" I think I still have one of OWL's feathers stuck in one of my paws…:laugh: TerriblePerson (I hate having to direct myself to you with that name it is so cruel and I just don't see that in you…but I digress…) You don't have to figure anything out right now, you WON'T figure anything out right now it's like Carhill said it is all little steps, but it has to start somewhere. It is all a process like anything in life like any single thing we set out to do, be it a medial daily task or a life changin project, it all starts with one small change and steps in the direction you need to go. But if you are unsure which direction to go this is the reason why the "whys" are important. NOT to beat yourself up but simply to undestand. To explore what it was that prompted you to act so out of character and to understand it clearly and for what it is. From there you can embark in your new path. I can appreciate just how overwhelming this must feel to you, and that you are scared, facing ourselves to make a change because something is wrong IS scary so understand that everything you are feeling is normal. You are not going crazy you have not lost the ability to tap into your intuition even if it feels that way right now, you are just discombobulated. It's like when that chain that makes the wheel go round on a bike misses a spoke and hops off the track, the bike is still a bike but you do need to pull over and stop to rehook the chain back on so that the gear will make the wheel turn again and you can continue on your path. Your own self doubt about your choices is normal, it is a direct correlation to what you have just lived . You just encountered this darker perhaps less attractive version of yourself in some dark alley and that's enough to disorient anyone. So what I am going to say may sound really twisted but take it more like the glass half full than something dark or cynical, what you do have in your favour is that because your H is so preoccupied with bieng himself with his own thing, you can actually use this time to find yourself again. This is very important for you right now, your marriage is not going anywhere, if you have made it thus far a little more time until you get yourself in better shape and understand the big picture better, is not going to take away from the potential you might have together as a couple to recover. Also if I may suggest like someone else suggested journal your feelings/thoughts, make a list of those that are more pressing that affect you the most and see where they stem from. Distinguish between FEELING and THOUGHT and then see which thoughts are based on reality and wich are not. You are going to have a lot of racing thoughts and mixed emotions running around in your head and the only way to get them in check is to purge them out of your head, those thoughts that linger in your head will do more bad than good.
Owl Posted May 29, 2008 Posted May 29, 2008 You guys are a hoot...no pun intended! You sound like the married couple! Both sets of advice are good, but which is right for me? Find a path, make a plan, find out why first....it all just wants to make me sit somewhere and cry for about three weeks. I don't know what to do at all! I haven't had much luck figuring out why I have done anything in life so i don't know why all of a sudden I would have clarity on this, but on the other hand, many decisions I have made have been impulsive or hasty and no good came from those either. Maybe I should listen to the silence. I don't know that you've so much "made decisions" as much as you've just flat out "done things". That's why you need a plan...you've not planned ANYTHING outright over the course of this whole thing...you've not been THINKING...you've been feeling. THAT is what led you to where you're at today. Time to turn on the thinking again. You've made no headway in this time trying to sort things out. No surprise...because you've been trying to do it by yourself. That ain't gonna get you anywhere, friend. That's why you need to consider counseling...both individual, and marriage. The individual can help you figure out your own personal "why's" to a degree. The marriage can help you sort out your relationship issues. Your H clearly needs a "wake up call". He's obviously said and done a number of things that have left you feeling lost and confused. One thing to bear in mind though, and you'll hear a lot of disagreeing views on this, but I'm going to say it loud and clear and up front...THAT DID NOT JUSTIFY YOUR CHOICE TO BEGIN AN AFFAIR WITH "ROOMIE". A large part of what you're going to have to work through is accepting the responsibility for this choice. Don't worry, you don't have to do it today. Or tomorrow...but eventually, its a must. From where I stand, you've indicated that at this point you want to work on the marriage. That means you need to clear the air. That means coming clean about the affair to your H. Which is one more need for MC...because marriage counseling can help "set the stage" for that to happen. It can create a place that's 'safe' for you to work through this with your H. I know you hate the idea of telling your H...but honestly, this is his marriage too. He DESERVES the truth, and the right to make HIS choice about whether or not he wants to reconcile, once the truth is known. Just as much as its your right to do so as well. Right now, he doesn't have the full info, so he's in the dark and can't make a fully informed choice. My suggestions in a nutshell: Get into counseling...marriage and individual. TODAY. Tell your H the truth about what's happened. Tell your H the truth about how you currently feel about him and your marriage. Communication is probably the FIRST real thing that died in your marriage, and its the most critical to get working again first. Work with your MC/IC/and H to figure out where to go from here. Last thing..."roomie" is probably going to have to find a new place to live. YOU should insist on it first and foremost, to remove the temptation and prevent conflict between him and your H. Work with your counselors to develop your game plans from there.
Owl Posted May 29, 2008 Posted May 29, 2008 <spits tuffs of Tomcat fur outta his beak> Actually...very good advice in that last post by TC. This is a MARATHON...its not a sprint. Nothing has to be "figured out" today, but you do need to start down the path to recovering yourself (and/or your marriage, depending on your choices) TODAY. Baby steps...pick your first step, and move in that direction. And think about that second step as you're taking your first...next thing you know...you're happy again. My wife and I are now four years happily recovered after her affair. Trust me...she did NOT see that happening back then. But she's very, very happy that we worked through it all.
Chrome Barracuda Posted May 29, 2008 Posted May 29, 2008 This situation is messed up on all sides. Why did she agree to marry him knowing she'd be his 4th wife, knowing he cheated on his wife before her and probably the one before her? She needs to come clean with her H about the cheating marriages shouldnt be based on lies... ...you know what I'm not even gonna finish what I was thinking. I'm just gonna let them marinate on that.
Tomcat33 Posted May 29, 2008 Posted May 29, 2008 I don't know that he "gave up" 2 yrs ago, but everything changed after the cycling accident, that was a huge turning point. He physically was unable to...well...you know. Then he started another job doing work quite different than what he was doing (still in trades though) and the new set of guys (yes, they are pretty much all guys there) seemed to change him even more. That is when he discovered his penchant for scotch and cigars. That is when the weight started piling on. That is when I first saw the drill sargent in him come out. AFter 8 years of knowing each other, that is when I see it first. After scotch. Hmmmm. I know the weight gain has wielded some startling blows to his self-esteem which in turn has effected our sex life 100%. Someplace I mentioned that we have "tried" a couple of times, but if he fails then I feel I am failing, or there is something about me that makes him fail at it, and it feels so much like rejection (real problem for me) that I am afraid to try more times now in case he fails again. Well this does change things from the original post in terms of how the information was presented, so it's not so much that he gave up two years ago it is morseo that he has been preoccupied with his accident and his own distress to devote of himeself properly to the marriage/you and that's understandable but you have to be there as the supporting partner to really know what that is like. I can empathise with both of you. It seems like you have been dealt a very difficult hand and life has dealt you some very hard times to overcome over the last few years. I'm sorry, I am sure you have both been suffering deeply in your own way because of this. One of my favourite films comes to mind Breaking The Waves, an excellent depiction of how life can turn on us and how we manage to cope or overcome. I recommend it if you have not seen it TP. It is psychlogically heavy and shot in dogma so it is pretty intense.
Tomcat33 Posted May 29, 2008 Posted May 29, 2008 <spits tuffs of Tomcat fur outta his beak> Actually...very good advice in that last post by TC. This is a MARATHON...its not a sprint. Nothing has to be "figured out" today, but you do need to start down the path to recovering yourself (and/or your marriage, depending on your choices) TODAY. Baby steps...pick your first step, and move in that direction. And think about that second step as you're taking your first...next thing you know...you're happy again. My wife and I are now four years happily recovered after her affair. Trust me...she did NOT see that happening back then. But she's very, very happy that we worked through it all. "spit, tuff and cat" all in one sentence you know we could go to town with all those words OWL but we are still in the PG timeslot aren't we Likewise was thinking the same thing about your post. WOW, we actually ended up teaming up on this one?!? NO WAY! in particular this: I know you hate the idea of telling your H...but honestly, this is his marriage too. He DESERVES the truth, and the right to make HIS choice about whether or not he wants to reconcile, once the truth is known. Just as much as its your right to do so as well. Right now, he doesn't have the full info, so he's in the dark and can't make a fully informed choice.
White Flower Posted May 30, 2008 Posted May 30, 2008 yes ive noticed this bickering, usually from the same people, & its really disheartening. NES, There are many different viewpoints and perspectives. It is actually good to see them all and then sift through them to suit your personal needs. Sometimes friendly exchanges can look like fighting, but it is often not the case here at LS. Of course, fighting does happen and we can choose to ignore that.
bentnotbroken Posted May 30, 2008 Posted May 30, 2008 NES, There are many different viewpoints and perspectives. It is actually good to see them all and then sift through them to suit your personal needs. Sometimes friendly exchanges can look like fighting, but it is often not the case here at LS. Of course, fighting does happen and we can choose to ignore that. Really there are some people here that I love to bicker with WF, GWEN, OB but it is always stimulating and sometimes very entertaining. It is kind of like bickering over coffee.
White Flower Posted May 30, 2008 Posted May 30, 2008 Really there are some people here that I love to bicker with WF, GWEN, OB but it is always stimulating and sometimes very entertaining. It is kind of like bickering over coffee. True, and even though Bent serves bitter coffee, I still love her;) J/K. I know she can take my jokes and I can take hers. Really, even though we tend to disagree we can still respect each other.
bentnotbroken Posted May 30, 2008 Posted May 30, 2008 True, and even though Bent serves bitter coffee, I still love her;) J/K. I know she can take my jokes and I can take hers. Really, even though we tend to disagree we can still respect each other. Now you know my coffe isn't bitter, it is just a different F*L*A*V*O*R, and acquired taste if you will;)
White Flower Posted May 30, 2008 Posted May 30, 2008 Now you know my coffe isn't bitter, it is just a different F*L*A*V*O*R, and acquired taste if you will;) Ha ha ha ha ha! Thanks for my morning laugh. By the way, I'm drinking a cup of Maxwell House right now. And I admit you were an acquired taste. I don't know how I was converted, by I'm hooked.
bentnotbroken Posted May 30, 2008 Posted May 30, 2008 Ha ha ha ha ha! Thanks for my morning laugh. By the way, I'm drinking a cup of Maxwell House right now. And I admit you were an acquired taste. I don't know how I was converted, by I'm hooked. AAAHHH the divine power of persausion:p You know that sarcasim is strangly addicting. Or so I am told.
Author Terrible Person Posted June 2, 2008 Author Posted June 2, 2008 I still don't have the all the answers and am still getting berated on some other threads, but yes, sifting through everything is helping. It really is. Although I don't find the name calling I am getting on another thread particularily fruitful you all here have been quit thoughtful. Final words of advice from anyone? Owl? TomCat?????
Owl Posted June 2, 2008 Posted June 2, 2008 Same advice I gave you before, my friend. My view on your situation hasn't changed. Select some short term goals (save the marriage, end the marriage)...get plan to get there, and start moving in that direction. I've outlined my thoughts on either choice. Just let us know what you plan to do from here, and we can give you more specific advice based on those changes.
porter218 Posted June 2, 2008 Posted June 2, 2008 You should try to get to the bottom of why you 2 have stopped having sex for so long. I have never heard of a man who could go for that long. You need to sit down with him and figure this out. It is possible to save your marriage but I am not sure it is worth it. It sounds like he changes after you say "I do". he has failed four times so I wonder if he is capable of making you happy. But as far as him answering your phone married people often do that, the only reason it upset you is because you were doing something wrong. Bottom line you and your husband need a serious talk before any decisions are made.
OWoman Posted June 3, 2008 Posted June 3, 2008 But as far as him answering your phone married people often do that, the only reason it upset you is because you were doing something wrong. Not in any marriage of mine! I would consider this completely unacceptable and would end the M immediately, same as snooping in my email or my snailmail. A shared landline, fair enough, or if asked (my SO does ask me to answer his phone if he's cooking, say, or I might ask him if I'm driving) for a cell, but if he were just to pick it up and answer - I'd consider that invasive and overstepping the boundaries, and he'd find himself out on the street. It has nothing do to with "doing something wrong" and everything to do with respect for personal space.
Owl Posted June 3, 2008 Posted June 3, 2008 Given your views on marriage, its not surprising you feel this way, Owoman. My wife's very welcome to answer my phone, see my email, etc... Those who have nothing to hide, hide nothing. Why do you feel that need for privacy from someone that you share your life with? What does this gain you, vs what risks can it present?
Tomcat33 Posted June 3, 2008 Posted June 3, 2008 You should try to get to the bottom of why you 2 have stopped having sex for so long. I have never heard of a man who could go for that long. . Well read the thread and you will see why.
bentnotbroken Posted June 3, 2008 Posted June 3, 2008 I never had a problem with Mr. Messy answering my phone, I never kept it locked. Once he read a letter from a good friend(a female) that I had asked him not to read. She was having problems and he knew her very well. I just told him she was in trouble, not what it was. He insisted on finding out what it was. That was the first and last time he did that. But I never hide anything from him. I guess I just never felt the need to hide anything.
OWoman Posted June 4, 2008 Posted June 4, 2008 Given your views on marriage, its not surprising you feel this way, Owoman. My wife's very welcome to answer my phone, see my email, etc... Those who have nothing to hide, hide nothing. Why do you feel that need for privacy from someone that you share your life with? What does this gain you, vs what risks can it present? It hasn't to do with privacy, Owl, but with respect. If someone asks, I'm happy to share. But the assumption of entitlement that leads someone to take without asking is what I object to. (Sometimes someone may share something in confidence, which is different - then, if someone asks, I'll tell them I was told in confidence and ask them to respect that. But beyond that, I have nothing to hide and am quite open if asked. But I insist that those boundaries are respected, and that I'm asked.)
Author Terrible Person Posted July 9, 2008 Author Posted July 9, 2008 Just a "quick" update. The situation has changed dramatically since my last post. If you can believe it, even more stressors were added to our lives since I posted last. Some great things came out of the entire situation, some bad things too. We have basically gone through hell and back in the last several weeks. New things came to light, seriousness of medical situations for both of us and all this demanded regrouping of our lives. I have opted NOT to tell. My husband has to work with this man. It is my belief that is much more tortureous (if that is what some responders would like to see happen to me) to live with that huge mistake than to tell. This job adds to my husband's failing self-esteem, as he is involved with critical systems for a large corporation. There would be terrible consequences if I unloaded and "came clean" that would ultimately be worse for my husband. I will not do this to ease MY OWN conscience. So for my own reasons (just like Denise Richards...."It's Complicated"!) and others that contribute to my decision that are not devulged here, I will not tell. The "roomie" is gone and has completely altered how he interacts with me. I miss his friendship (not sex!) but this is how it must be I suppose. I'm old enough to know that. Let sleeping dogs lie as they say. We are both dogs, I know, but this brief but illicit affair needs to be behind both of us. I know I have more serious issues to deal with. Not to degrade the seriousness of what happened, but in life some things are even more serious. My marriage has improved dramatically and is totally back on track. I realize how much I still love him, more every day. I found out he actually did desire me but thought I didn't desire him. We have been together sexually, but more importantly we have connected again sensually, emotionally and spiritually. Though more stressors have been added to our lives, our marriage at least is not one of them. He has his own share of guilt to deal with regarding his behavior too, so as far as I'm concerned, it all must be let go, and it has been. I hope everyone here at LoveShack that responded to my situation is happy for us and consequently, for me. I still pray that the stressors will resolve themselves, and I have to believe they will. It is a very scary time right now but we have each other. I may post again, but as far as this initial problem, it has been solved. Some may not agree with how I dealt with it, but the outcome has been good for everyone, so I will not question it now. I am no longer a Terrible Person! I am a human being. I deserve love and respect the same as anyone. If I acted out to find it, it was understandable I believe, but YES, it was wrong. Those who answered so cruelly have never heard the saying "love your brother/sister". I don't think that was conditional on judgements made by the individual. I am human. I am a sinner. I am still a very good person and extremely caring. If people don't want to believe that, that is up to them of course. Thanks to all, even those with the mean posts. I learned there are still many people out there that don't seem to mind throwing stones even if they are themselves in a house of glass!
Owl Posted July 9, 2008 Posted July 9, 2008 Just curious...so do you feel that your affair was "justfied", or "right"? Do you feel it was "good for your marriage" in any fashion? Last thought...any guilt at all about keeping this all from your H?
Author Terrible Person Posted July 10, 2008 Author Posted July 10, 2008 No. Under no circumstances do I think what I did was right or justified. I have tried hard to analyize my behavior and look at my sins dead on. I will have guilt until I am able to tell. The time is not right now. We will make it if we both want to and we both want to. We will make it.
bentnotbroken Posted July 10, 2008 Posted July 10, 2008 Loving your brother/sister requires that you tell them the truth. Don't just pick and choose the parts of the bible to tailor to your situation at the time. Because it also said thou shalt not commit adultery. And it also speaks about false witness(lying). God is good all the time, even when we don't deserve it, which none of us do. It is his mercy that allows us the opportunity to do the right thing, all of the right thing. You can't hide the lie and expect it not to come to light, it will. God did say whatever is done in the dark, will come to the light. You have made your choices, not a mistake, and you continue to make them to cover your misdeeds. Your H deserves the truth, and he will eventually get all of it, what then?
herenow Posted July 11, 2008 Posted July 11, 2008 I'm sure your H feels guilt about what he has done. Do you think it's fair to allow him to carry that guilt alone knowing that you too had an affair? Are you asking your H to be honest with you about his affair or are you just letting it go and not asking any questions? If you are asking him to be honest with you, don't you owe him the same honesty? Just asking because I don't think you can have a real reconciliation when one of you is keeping a secret. And, if you do keep this secret and your marriage is rebuilt, it would be rebuilt on lies. When he finally finds out the truth, there may be no going back again.
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