Need insight, not judgement

[Terrible Person]

:(Ok...I need insight. Not judgement. So here goes.....my story. I am 46. My husband 48. He is also a former Marine. FORMER. I met my husband 10 years ago when he was still married. I did not want to be the reason for a divorce so we stopped seeing each other altogether so he could be sure about what he wanted. He missed his kids. . He tried a brief reconcillation with his wife and she immediately got pregnant, but did not tell him until she was past her first trimester. They already had two children, obvious marriage problems and financial problems. I warned him she would do this before he went back and he said on no, she won't, yada...for the above reasons. I have no children.

 

At that point, he decides he does not like to be manipulated and leaves her before she has the babies. Yes, I said babies....it was twins. She was already 43 then so this pregnancy was a little suspicious as there was very little sex even on the onset of the reconcillation and then it stopped altogether. This was a period of about four and half months.

 

We started seeing each other again. But now he wasn't sure about me and we both started dating others. We got back together in 2003 and married in 2004.

 

During that time there have been many changes. Perhaps I was too old to try marriage. I don't know. He was a cyclist and had an accident that kept him off his bike for a long time. He just got back on last week as his job is nearby and he is getting over his fear now. While not cycling he gained about 60 pounds. He started drinking scotch and smoking cigars. He began to scare me and talk to me when he was drunk as though I was a recruit. He never hit me though. We have not had sex in nearly two years. I am beginning to get old now, although I dont' look too bad for my age I'd say. I feel unattractive and undesireable.

 

In March one of his friends from work who worked here during the week and went home to another state on the weekends needed a place to stay. We had the room and we needed his expertise on some projects so it was working out. I really loved the guy as a friend and I believe in some ways my husband thinks of him as his best friend.

 

A couple of weeks ago, the roomie mentions to me what did I think of the sexual tension between us. I would never had mentioned it if he hadn't, but yes, there was. This guy is funny, adventurous, spontaneous, etc. But also MARRIED. He is also 36. Ten years younger than me. We talked about the tension briefly because we are NEVER alone.

 

That night I went to him in his room and had sex with him. Though it was fast (needed to be) it was FANTASTIC. I think he and I would have a great sex life. We did it one more time after that and then his guilt got to him and he said by no uncertain terms that was never going to happen again. And it didn't. We do/did all of our real communicating thru texting.

 

He believed my husband suspected something had happened between us or was going to. I don't know. Could be.

 

Then one day he texted me while away and my husband answered the text as me, thinking it was funny. I don't know what was texted, but it was enough to get my husband slightly riled.

 

I, on the other hand, am so pissed he answered my phone. We share a lot but a person is still a person and needs some modicom of freedom and privacy no matter what.

 

At any rate, the fellow is acting so weird and not staying here (haven't seen him in days he is at his brother in laws house - he stayed there for a long time before so that is why he moved in with us for awhile) he definitely believes my husband KNOWS we had sex. He does not know that. But he does know and I took the blame, that I did go into talk to the guy in the night (nudge) and laid near him but did not touch him. We just talked. I told my husband basically this made the other guy our roomie uncomfortable (of course!) and that I should talk these things out, our problems with my husband. So my husband knows I went in his room and was close to him (he knows he is my friend too and that always before had had a little brother affection for him and that is the truth).

 

Even though I took the fall albiet full of white lies he is still angry with the other guy, who according to the story, basically asked me to leave his room because of the relationship he has with my husband as close friends...yada. My husband is very very mad at me. These actions of my mine have ruined everything. I should not have done what I did, but after two years I just needed to be held and have I guess, a quickie, to feel I was still desireable.

 

The problems of the verbal abuse have been there for awhile. But only since we were married. It is very difficult to have a conversation with him without a whinny "I know" from him repeatedly. Counseling is not possible now as I am not working currently and we are practically living on Credit Cards. I mean groceries, gas, everything.

 

We have a second house we are trying to sell but it needs some TLC before we can even put it on the market, and God knows how long it will be there. I turned in my two 401K's to help with expenses but neither of us is good with money and little was done with the money. I put the downpayment of 10K down on this house and our little dog broke her leg and needed emergency surgery which cost 3K and I know we did spend some money on things that were needed but the remainder, I don't know where it went.

 

At any rate. Now I have nothing. No job. An unhappy marriage. Lost the one friend I did have (our roomate) and basically have screwed up any chances of the couples (there are about two other couples that we could have established relationships with). We have been very isolated. This was going to be a good thing because I was with him ALL the time when not at work. My work friends are gone. I am alone. My sister is here but we are rather estranged for many reasons.

 

I don't have any pie in the sky ideas that this guy and I would have a future (he has an unhappy marriage too) and would like to forget the incident altogether. But the bigger deal Richard (names changed of course) makes of it by staying away...avoiding...overdoing the guilt, etc. is just making matters worse. It was a mistake. Its over. Keep it to yourself and I will keep it to myself and lets just go back to the way it was. I am able to do this. He, not so much. He bought a house here and will be moving his wife and sons (two are older and I believe he has one about 8 or so. Not sure.) here at the end of June. If he continues acting this way he just makes it weirder and weirder. I have taken the fall and the onus is on me.

 

The big question is. What was the real reason I did this? I dont' like the invasion of privacy and the jealousy (which was there with all guys that would look at me before) and of course, the loud talking and pushing me around as if he were a drill sergent (?) wasnt helping, neither was the drinking nor the no sex. I am unhappy and unsure our marriage is salvageable. I am not attracted to him anymore physically (again, this is not new) and I am tired of all the stuff I mentioned above.

 

I posted this in the marriage infidelity forum and aside from being called names, never really got any insight. Does anyone here have insight instead of judgement?

 

Terrible Person

[whichwayisup]

I suggest since you have no kids with him, get a divorce. You're obviously unhappy in your marriage since you did cheat and your H is abusive towards you. Forget the MM right now, you need to end your marriage for you not for someone else.

 

If you D, then you need to be OK being alone. There's always a chance that the MM will not divorce his wife.

 

Go to counselling to help you as well.

[carhill]

My only insight would be to clarify the reasons to stay or leave your marriage first, and then make a decision as to how to proceed. MC has been real helpful for me in that regard. I ended up using a bit of my retirement to pay for it and it was worth every nickel of the penalty I paid to the IRS Perhaps you can find a free version of this type of help. Another option, if you're tapped out on one of the houses and it's upside down (not uncommon in today's market), just walk away from it and use the money to pay other bills and for counseling. I'm not saying that's "right", but sometimes you have to make hard choices.

 

I think clarity will help you in ways you have yet to discover, including your role in these other relationships you've had.

 

IMO, work on yourself first, the marriage (or its ending) second, and then, once healthy, deal with all these other distractions. I know it's hard. Trust me, I know. It takes a daily, minute by minute commitment. You can do it

[Terrible Person]

I suggest since you have no kids with him, get a divorce. You're obviously unhappy in your marriage since you did cheat and your H is abusive towards you. Forget the MM right now, you need to end your marriage for you not for someone else.

 

If you D, then you need to be OK being alone. There's always a chance that the MM will not divorce his wife.

 

Go to counselling to help you as well.

 

 

Your insight is very thoughtful. I am not "worried" about the MM right now. It isn't about us being "together". I am just trying to find out what it is about. I do not want to give up on my marriage, in my heart, I really don't.

 

My husband has recognized how scary and angry he gets when drinks too much and has elected to cool it on the liquor on his own. So that problem might be relieving itself soon.

 

This is his fourth marriage. My first. I did not get married until I was nearly 44. I wanted it to be forever. That is WHY I waited. But now, because I don't have the experience of a divorce or a string of other serious relationships or engagments that didn't stick, I'm not sure how to handle any of it. Maybe?

 

I've never had to answer to anyone. Now all of a sudden I should be ok with this jealousy and isolation? Not to mention the answering of my phone. I don't think anyone would agree that these things he does are right either. But, I did marry, so I need to learn how to cope or learn something useful from my actions so that I can do better.

 

Yes, we will probably have to sell the house WAAAYYY below market value, but we have location, location, location going for us....so that should be a help anyway. There is no money to turn in a 401K now. I turned all of mine in for the downpayment on the house we are in now, fixing up this house and on fixing our puppy's broken leg.

 

I'm just very very confused.

[Terrible Person]

My only insight would be to clarify the reasons to stay or leave your marriage first, and then make a decision as to how to proceed. MC has been real helpful for me in that regard. I ended up using a bit of my retirement to pay for it and it was worth every nickel of the penalty I paid to the IRS Perhaps you can find a free version of this type of help. Another option, if you're tapped out on one of the houses and it's upside down (not uncommon in today's market), just walk away from it and use the money to pay other bills and for counseling. I'm not saying that's "right", but sometimes you have to make hard choices.

 

I think clarity will help you in ways you have yet to discover, including your role in these other relationships you've had.

 

IMO, work on yourself first, the marriage (or its ending) second, and then, once healthy, deal with all these other distractions. I know it's hard. Trust me, I know. It takes a daily, minute by minute commitment. You can do it

 

You have some good advice too. I think the stress of my losing my job of ten years to a 25 year old girl recently (yes...age discrimination starts earlier and earlier now), the need to fix up and sell the second house, our financial situation as it stands now, etc. None of these things are actually "good" for any marriage I suspect. Its a lot of stress at one time. I will take your advice to heart and see if I can't get some clarity for myself first, as you mentioned. Thank you so much.

[Owl]

Exactly. Don't worry about the "WHY" you did it...right now, you need to work out what you're going to do from here. Stay married or get a divorce seems to be your first required set of choices. If you opt to stay married, do you want to improve the marriage, or accept it the way it is. If stay, no action needed. If you want it better, then get a gameplan to get there...marriage counseling would oviously be your first step. There are clearly issues on BOTH sides of your marriage that need to be addressed for it to become a healthy one.

 

If you opt to divorce, get a lawyer, and start the process. Work on getting some type of employment, figure out where/how you're going to live, etc...

 

I'll be honest...there are a lot of things I'd suggest as well, but you're likely to feel "judged", and so they probably won't help you much at this point.

 

Start with making a CHOICE...then figure out how to make that choice happen (get a plan)...and then work your plan to make it happen. There's your first steps.

[Terrible Person]

Exactly. Don't worry about the "WHY" you did it...right now, you need to work out what you're going to do from here. Stay married or get a divorce seems to be your first required set of choices. If you opt to stay married, do you want to improve the marriage, or accept it the way it is. If stay, no action needed. If you want it better, then get a gameplan to get there...marriage counseling would oviously be your first step. There are clearly issues on BOTH sides of your marriage that need to be addressed for it to become a healthy one.

 

If you opt to divorce, get a lawyer, and start the process. Work on getting some type of employment, figure out where/how you're going to live, etc...

 

I'll be honest...there are a lot of things I'd suggest as well, but you're likely to feel "judged", and so they probably won't help you much at this point.

 

Start with making a CHOICE...then figure out how to make that choice happen (get a plan)...and then work your plan to make it happen. There's your first steps.

 

 

I appreciate your frank answer. I don't mean to imply that it isn't natural for people to judge, just that in this particular instance, I have already judged myself and need ideas, insight, etc., not to feel worse at this point. The answers I have received on other threads (maybe I was on the wrong one to begin with) though I have been berated and rightfully so, have at least had some substance to them, as yours does.

 

I will contemplate your suggestions and maybe just take a long walk, it is quite beautiful here today. Maybe some true alone time will help let me see things more clearly and from a less in the middle of the muck position.

 

I appreicate your reply. Thank you.

[Owl]

You're welcome. Enjoy your walk, and I hope its productive. If you decide you'd like to hear some of my other thoughts/suggestions, just post here and let me know.

[Tomcat33]

I think you should pay close attention as to why you did this, the root of every infidelity is to be figured out if you want to move past and grow from what you did.

 

On the surface you did this because you have been feeling unappreciated by your mate, you have not been desired sexually for two years and you have in turn inherited an "uglier" version (inside and out) of what you had for a mate.

Then here is this new man who pays attention to you and it felt good to be appreciated again. You did this as a cry out for help, you did this out of the resentment you must be feeling towards your mate for letting himself go as he did.

 

The only way you can work out your situation is if you get to the root of the why, every next move will depend on how much you wish to explore the why's. Once you figure that out you will know what you want next, if it will be to stay or go.

[Tomcat33]

Start with making a CHOICE...then figure out how to make that choice happen (get a plan)...and then work your plan to make it happen. There's your first steps.

 

 

I'm sorry but you cannot make a conscious healthy choice without understanding your overall picture, and the overall picture has to start from the root., The why's ARE important, they are fundamental actually.

[Owl]

I agree the "why" is important...but that's not where she needs to focus at RIGHT NOW.

 

First...she needs to decide if her marriage is salvageable or not, and if it is, take the steps to make that happen.

 

She'll sort out the "why" in marriage and individual counseling that'll be required as part of that, or as part of her plan for herself once she's started moving down any other path she takes.

 

Right now, her marriage will likely die long before she's truly able to sort through all the "why's" and such.

 

This is triage...deal with the most immediate crisis FIRST. Treat the symptoms that are going to kill you first...THEN, once the patient is stabilized, you can go looking for the source of the problem. It doesn't do any good to treat the infection if they're going to die from the fever before the antibiotics can act.

[Untouchable_Fire]

I will contemplate your suggestions and maybe just take a long walk, it is quite beautiful here today. Maybe some true alone time will help let me see things more clearly and from a less in the middle of the muck position.

I appreicate your reply. Thank you.

 

Owl is exactly correct. Your path will start with choices.

[Owl]

We'll have to offer our own viewpoints, and "agree to disagree" on this, TC. This is one of those things that you and I are likely to remain on opposite sides of.

[Tomcat33]

First...she needs to decide if her marriage is salvageable or not, and if it is, take the steps to make that happen.

 

Figuring out WHY she cheated will help her assess that. As she figures this out it will shed some light into where she wants to proceed next in terms of her marriage.

 

In otherwords does she truly not love her H anymore, or was this a cry out for attention because she most definitely still loves him?

[Tomcat33]

This is triage...deal with the most immediate crisis FIRST. Treat the symptoms that are going to kill you first...THEN, once the patient is stabilized, you can go looking for the source of the problem. It doesn't do any good to treat the infection if they're going to die from the fever before the antibiotics can act.

 

Excellent example but by the sounds of it nothing is "dying" here, in fact it sounds like it has been dead for quite some time, her H gave up 2 yrs ago and she is trying to figure it all out.

[carhill]

OP, after hearing the opinions offered, and taking your walk, let us know what you propose as your first step in the process. Walking the path is one step at a time, and each step, especially the first one, is important. Maybe, over the coming weeks, you can help me

[neverendingsaga]

I just wanted to let the OP know that this sort of bickering is often started on these threads for whatever reasons, but to please not to let it discourage her from continuing to post for support.

 

You'll still get responses on your particular situation, and its your choice to sort through the responses for the advice that best suits your situation.

 

yes ive noticed this bickering, usually from the same people, & its really disheartening. i think you handled it really well owl. it seems to me like some ppl on here always think theyre right about everything & cant actually give advice... instead they have to pick on the advice that other ppl give. owl your welcome to give me advice anytime & i wont listen to ppl who pick on it b/c i think you are a great person & very wise like your name LOL:), & other ppl in here seem to care more about having there own voice being heard & than helping. i get sad every time i read fights like this in this forum: isnt this place supposed to be for HELP?! not fighting & having to prove were right all the time. i like that you just let it go & cared more about the poster then about your advice being 'right'. so i will listen to your advice anytime.

[LakesideDream]

TerribPer,

 

There is advise to be had here. Some good, some bad. It's often judgemental. If this threat thrives.. you will have to choose what you want to pay attention to.

 

There are lots of us here your age or older (I'm 58) there are a few retired Marines as well, you will probably meet Gunny. The geezers generally have excellent opinions, and advice for you.

 

I wish you all the luck in the world. I've made it through ugly spots, and so will you.

[Terrible Person]

You're welcome. Enjoy your walk, and I hope its productive. If you decide you'd like to hear some of my other thoughts/suggestions, just post here and let me know.

 

 

Yeah...I think I can take it. I'm always open for suggestions.

 

I really think divorce is out of the question. I had some reservations in my heart about our getting married in the first place and I put it off to pre-marriage jitters. But maybe it wasn't. At any rate, I'm married now and as far as I can see, that is how it will stay. Though from other's points of view here, it may seem I did not take my marriage vows seriously, I really did. I took him knowing I was his fourth wife, I took him knowing he has a chronic disease (Crohn's), I took him knowing he now has four children, I took him knowing we would always be struggling for money in some way.....all that better and worse. Its just now, and for the past couple of years, its been mostly worse.

 

OM is not leaving his wife! Of course not! That was not something that even crossed my mind. Its not as though all of a sudden we're in love and have to be together forever.....yes, I love the guy (roomie), but in the same way I have always loved him. There will probably always be the curiousity of "what if things were different"? There may be another reality being played out right now in the cosmos or whatever where he and I are acting out our attraction or need for each other openly. But that is not this reality.

 

There is something bigger than me happening here and I have to figure out what it is. The big picture. Something.

[Terrible Person]

TerribPer,

 

There is advise to be had here. Some good, some bad. It's often judgemental. If this threat thrives.. you will have to choose what you want to pay attention to.

 

There are lots of us here your age or older (I'm 58) there are a few retired Marines as well, you will probably meet Gunny. The geezers generally have excellent opinions, and advice for you.

 

I wish you all the luck in the world. I've made it through ugly spots, and so will you.

 

I appreciate your well wishes and I certainly need them from anyone willing to offer them. I'm so confused and frightened. I can't seem to think straight at all. You are so right though, I have made it through some ugly spots in my life too and I'm still here, so it can be done, right?

[Terrible Person]

OP, after hearing the opinions offered, and taking your walk, let us know what you propose as your first step in the process. Walking the path is one step at a time, and each step, especially the first one, is important. Maybe, over the coming weeks, you can help me

 

 

I would love to be of help to someone else!!! Anytime! If you think you might want to hear my assessment of something you are going through I would be more than happy to help! I seem to be able to understand and help OTHERS sort out their problems better than I can my own. Once I heard it said, "Its hard to see the picture when you are inside the frame" and I think that must be why sites like this even exist.

 

My first step? I don't even know. I guess not to do anything in haste or in this emotional state. My husband and I have so many issues to deal with right now, all major stressors. I think it would be another mistake to make a kneejerk decision to leave. More meditation. Some time passing. Some problems maybe working themselves out (the financial, the second mortgage, a new job, etc.) taking some of these stessors out of the picture could change the whole landscape right?

[carhill]

I've found the financial issues seem to work themselves out more easily when one has clarity in other areas. It's like emotional and spiritual clarity promote intellectual clarity so one can make reasoned and fair decisions in an unemotional manner.

 

I'm a little further down the path than yourself, but there are many parallels. Be sure to read my journals, which are coming this weekend, as I think you may find some insight, as well as be able to add your own. After 2300 posts, I guess I might as well start a thread

 

Remember, one day at a time. The only person you can control and change is yourself.

[Terrible Person]

Figuring out WHY she cheated will help her assess that. As she figures this out it will shed some light into where she wants to proceed next in terms of her marriage.

 

In otherwords does she truly not love her H anymore, or was this a cry out for attention because she most definitely still loves him?

 

Tomcat AND Owl:

You guys are a hoot...no pun intended! You sound like the married couple! Both sets of advice are good, but which is right for me? Find a path, make a plan, find out why first....it all just wants to make me sit somewhere and cry for about three weeks. I don't know what to do at all! I haven't had much luck figuring out why I have done anything in life so i don't know why all of a sudden I would have clarity on this, but on the other hand, many decisions I have made have been impulsive or hasty and no good came from those either. Maybe I should listen to the silence.

 

I think it is a cryout.....but if anything a cry to myself. Of course, he is not uninvolved being my husband and all....but I must have acted out of character like this for some other reason. I can't seem to get clearheaded on this at all. The dust from the other issues must settle . I don't see how any practical or logical decision can be made in my state and with so many other complicating factors that were not covered in Chapter One of my book! I know I tend to prattle.

[Terrible Person]

Excellent example but by the sounds of it nothing is "dying" here, in fact it sounds like it has been dead for quite some time, her H gave up 2 yrs ago and she is trying to figure it all out.

 

 

I don't know that he "gave up" 2 yrs ago, but everything changed after the cycling accident, that was a huge turning point. He physically was unable to...well...you know. Then he started another job doing work quite different than what he was doing (still in trades though) and the new set of guys (yes, they are pretty much all guys there) seemed to change him even more. That is when he discovered his penchant for scotch and cigars. That is when the weight started piling on. That is when I first saw the drill sargent in him come out. AFter 8 years of knowing each other, that is when I see it first. After scotch. Hmmmm.

 

I know the weight gain has wielded some startling blows to his self-esteem which in turn has effected our sex life 100%. Someplace I mentioned that we have "tried" a couple of times, but if he fails then I feel I am failing, or there is something about me that makes him fail at it, and it feels so much like rejection (real problem for me) that I am afraid to try more times now in case he fails again.

 

So.....roomie and my dirty deed come in at a point where I just want to know that someone would find me attractive. I know, I know, with men they'd probably do a billy goat if it lipstick on, they'll go after most anything. So in reality what was proven? It really shouldn't be that comforting that another man wanted me I guess....but in my mind it seemed like it was revalidating something in me. Kidding myself again to be sure.

 

Roomie has been spending much less time here (overnight). ow that my husband "knows" I went into roomie's room to talk to him.....he has been extra vigilant to wake up, sleeping like a cat as he did when he was a Marine, and I think it freaks roomie out. It shouldn't though cause I wouldn't go in his room again with him in it for anything.

 

Anyway, roomie is still helping us work on the other house as trade-out for our taking him in for these last three months or so. His sister does live in the city here, but he had been living there so long before that I think they just needed a break. He would stay there during the week, as he does here, then commute home on the weekends, next state over - as he still does. He's quite a character.

 

Everything on the surface of the situation will be different at the end of June when he moves his wife and family here. There will not even be an opportunity of shennagins! Plus, this little affair clearly wasn't the answer to that big question. WHHY?????

[Terrible Person]

I don't know that he "gave up" 2 yrs ago, but everything changed after the cycling accident, that was a huge turning point. He physically was unable to...well...you know. Then he started another job doing work quite different than what he was doing (still in trades though) and the new set of guys (yes, they are pretty much all guys there) seemed to change him even more. That is when he discovered his penchant for scotch and cigars. That is when the weight started piling on. That is when I first saw the drill sargent in him come out. AFter 8 years of knowing each other, that is when I see it first. After scotch. Hmmmm.

 

I know the weight gain has wielded some startling blows to his self-esteem which in turn has effected our sex life 100%. Someplace I mentioned that we have "tried" a couple of times, but if he fails then I feel I am failing, or there is something about me that makes him fail at it, and it feels so much like rejection (real problem for me) that I am afraid to try more times now in case he fails again.

 

So.....roomie and my dirty deed come in at a point where I just want to know that someone would find me attractive. I know, I know, with men they'd probably do a billy goat if it lipstick on, they'll go after most anything. So in reality what was proven? It really shouldn't be that comforting that another man wanted me I guess....but in my mind it seemed like it was revalidating something in me. Kidding myself again to be sure.

 

Roomie has been spending much less time here (overnight). ow that my husband "knows" I went into roomie's room to talk to him.....he has been extra vigilant to wake up, sleeping like a cat as he did when he was a Marine, and I think it freaks roomie out. It shouldn't though cause I wouldn't go in his room again with him in it for anything.

 

Anyway, roomie is still helping us work on the other house as trade-out for our taking him in for these last three months or so. His sister does live in the city here, but he had been living there so long before that I think they just needed a break. He would stay there during the week, as he does here, then commute home on the weekends, next state over - as he still does. He's quite a character.

 

Everything on the surface of the situation will be different at the end of June when he moves his wife and family here. There will not even be an opportunity of shennagins! Plus, this little affair clearly wasn't the answer to that big question. WHHY?????