In Over My Head

[Owl]

These choices really are that simple. They're not EASY in any stretch of the word...but the choices are that simple.

[Mustang Sally]

2long -

Thank you for that. Yes, thank you so much. Mr I and his plight aside, I needed that as well.

 

I smiled and nodded several times while reading through your link. But these, especially, I'd like to reproduce here:

 

"Marriage is not supposed to make you happy. It is supposed to make you married, and once you are safely and totally married then you have a structure of security and support from which you are free to make yourself happy, rather than wasting your adulthood looking for a structure."

 

As well as this:

 

"Simone Signoret, married forever to Yves Montand in a marriage that survived his notorious affairs with Edith Piaf and Marilyn Monroe, explained: 'Chains do not hold a marriage together. It is threads, hundreds of tiny threads which sew people together through the years. This is what makes a marriage last---more than passion or even sex.'"

 

Those two quotes really spoke to me today.

Thank you, again.

[MrIndependent]

Thanks for that 2 long. There is lots of food for thought in there.

[smartgirl]

Mr I,

With regards to the email from OW, several thoughts:

 

You and OW are former adulterous lovers -- there is no being "friends" after that. ANY relationship will be kept a secret from your wife and that will just continue the pattern of deceipt and emotional isolation that has already damaged your marriage. It just needs to stop.

 

I have read this same exact thing in countless emails of MM trying to leave A and get back with W. OW gets fed up or whatever, and tells MM they want no contact. At some point, when MM really does start to move on OW misses being wanted and needed. There is the inevitiable - I just wanted to see if you are ok or lets be friends. They are as addicted to the A situation as MM was and are wavering.

 

The smartest thing to do would be to not respond to her email and not respond to any others you get. But I feel pretty certain you will feel compelled to respond, believing you are being kind to her and that you can control your feelings because you have begun making decisions. You will only pull yourself, W and OW backwards.

[mattym]

I've tried reading through most of this thread, and see a lot of similarities with my life so for what it's worth to the OP...

 

I've been where you are , and I feel for you & understand how painful this is. If it helps, know that you're not alone, and that, cliched as it may read on the screen, it does get better..

 

When my A ended, I bounced back & forth. I think smartgirl pasted some of my (now lost) thread & like you, I tried to go from 'illicite lover' to 'friend' - in my case, it didn't work, and I don't think it ever really can..not without a few years under the bridge. Even then, it's disrespectful to your spouse. What would you think, if she wanted to be best pals with someone she was having an affair with previously?

 

NC is hard- the silence is almost unbearable. You may check your phone 10 times a day, wonder if it's her every time it rings, and in my case, feel so guilty for feeling that way that it stops you bonding with your wife..but it does get better

 

I felt as you did - like I wanted 2 universes to exist- 1 where I could be a married man & keep my family happy, and another where I could go off and be with OW

Like you, I thought I loved my OW. But here's the truth- I thought I loved her - just not enough to make any sort of commitment to her or give up anything I had. Is that Love?

 

What I loved was the attention & the ego trip. I was selfish. But so was she, and so really is your OW. She knew going in that you were married.

 

Maybe she's gone NC to get you chasing her, maybe she's relieving her guilt by letting you patch things up. Maybe like mine, she's already lining up the next option

 

It may help to think about how good she was at the deception side of things with you. If she did that effortlessly, then consider whether she may have done this before..

 

Don't be like I was & start seeing OW as a panacea and home life as an insurmountable problem. If you had never met OW, would you be considering leaving your W? If not, then perhaps, like me, your A was more about you

 

I don't have any answers, just some observations from my own experience. I nearly lost everything, but I was lucky

 

feel free to pm me if I can be of any use. look after yourself

 

Matt

[cherrymoon]

Hi there, Mr I and hello Matt.

Mr I can you see that Matt and I have told you the exact same thing. You don't really love her if you did you would leave and make a life with her.

 

I was harsh the last time as I feel you need to listen to those of us fools who have done the same.

 

Matt I did lose everything (nearly I have my kids)

My H and I are trying once again but it doesn't look good to be honest.

 

Mr I don't email and if you have then don't send a second. Sadly there is no place right now to protect her. I had to stop all contact I hated it, I checked my phone constantly. I found an excuse to contact him it was a cycle. Then one day I realised this.

I AM ALONE

I HAVE BEEN PHYSICALLY HURT BY MY H BECAUSE OF THIS AFFAIR.

I HAVE NO MONEY AND 4 CHILDREN.

I HAVE WALKED OUT OF MY HOME AND OUT OF THE BEST JOB I EVER HAD.

I HAVE LOST MY HUSBAND

I HAVE LOST MY SELF RESPECT

MY SELF ESTEEM

I AM NO LONGER TRUSTWORTHY.

MY KIDS ARE BROKEN AND HURTING (I DID THAT TO THEM)

 

WHERE IS HE????

AT HOME WITH HIS WIFE AND KIDS.

GOT A NEW JOB

STILL LIVING WITH HIS UNIT TOTALLY INTACT

HE GETS A BIT OF ABUSE FROM THE WIFE AND HAS TO GO TO COUNSELLING BUT ACTUALLY HE IS FINE.

WHAT IS HE DOING???

ACTING LIKE NOTHING HAS HAPPENED.

HE DIDN'T PROTECT ME LIKE HE PROMISED.

HE RAN HOME AND BROKE HIS WORD TO ME.

HE RINGS AND TELLS ME HE LOVES ME

HE WANTS ME TO GO AWAY WITH HIM AS HIS NEW JOB TAKES HIM OUT OF THE COUNTRY AND NO ONE WILL KNOW.

PHONE SEX

TO SEE ME just to talk:lmao:.

 

this isn't you I know but where is the love and look what can happen.

Stop all contact.

I lost all respect for this man once he wanted sex again until then I was stupid enough to think I was worth more.

He refused to stop contact. I would give in.

Then I met someone who I trusted enough to tell. He said he didn't believe this guy was still making contact and not getting anything in return.

I asked MM to please respect my decision and to leave me alone. I got such **** from him and then a he would wait for me:lmao: reply.

 

He texted a month later. I changed my number after that.

 

he didn't love me he was obsessed and loved what it brought to him.

The sex was crap for me. He had never had it so good.

I need someone to takecare of me, to desire me.

I actually had it all but could no longer see it as my H refused to acknowledge it was that bad.

 

Matt what did you do to make your marriage work and owl and 2 long how do i help my H (he keeps Fing it up, so it is hard for me ut i want to go home i want my husband )?

 

Mr independent. The hurt goes a lot faster when you lose a lover it take forever and hurts so much worse when you lose the person you married believe me, Sometimes I am so broken

[Owl]

Cherrymoon, please start your own thread here, describe your situation in detail, and I'll gladly post advice to your thread for you.

 

I don't want to focus on your situation on Mr I's thread.

 

Fair enough?

[cherrymoon]

absolutely and sorry.

[mattym]

My M is still a fragile work in progress. I've learned that the ramifications of an A are far more than the discovery

 

There's the missed time with children, the loss of innocence within the marriage, the huge financial cost of leading a double life ( I will be in debt now for several years) , and the sheer scale of the lies - in my case I lied to everyone from employer to friend to family jut to keep this one person in my life

 

Where one party is married, with commitments, and the other is single, there is an imbalance. It's a horrible , painful mess & I'd hate to see someone else go through it

[cherrymoon]

Shame people can't see into the future.

I have to agree with everything you said and the position you are now in me too.

 

In a way Mr I you are lucky your affair is finished and you have the full potential to have your life back. I cannot say whether you should tell or not I can see how bad it could become but I also see that your wife deserves to know.

Whatever decison you make I wish you all the best. I also hope with all my heart you never put yourself in this situation again. I know that I will never ever do what I have done to my H to anybody ever again.

[MrIndependent]

Mr I,

With regards to the email from OW, several thoughts:

 

You and OW are former adulterous lovers -- there is no being "friends" after that. ANY relationship will be kept a secret from your wife and that will just continue the pattern of deceipt and emotional isolation that has already damaged your marriage. It just needs to stop.

 

I have read this same exact thing in countless emails of MM trying to leave A and get back with W. OW gets fed up or whatever, and tells MM they want no contact. At some point, when MM really does start to move on OW misses being wanted and needed. There is the inevitiable - I just wanted to see if you are ok or lets be friends. They are as addicted to the A situation as MM was and are wavering.

 

The smartest thing to do would be to not respond to her email and not respond to any others you get. But I feel pretty certain you will feel compelled to respond, believing you are being kind to her and that you can control your feelings because you have begun making decisions. You will only pull yourself, W and OW backwards.

 

Oh I wish I was called smartguy and not Mr I! You were right I did feel compelled to respond and I have sent a reply. It was really just an acknowledgement and an attempt at closure on my part. I did say maybe we could keep in touch via email though. There is still a part of me that finds it so hard to let her go completely. Deep down though I know that I must do this, for her sake and for my W's sake. That is why I know I do love her despite what others may think.

[MrIndependent]

I've tried reading through most of this thread, and see a lot of similarities with my life so for what it's worth to the OP...

 

I've been where you are , and I feel for you & understand how painful this is. If it helps, know that you're not alone, and that, cliched as it may read on the screen, it does get better..

 

When my A ended, I bounced back & forth. I think smartgirl pasted some of my (now lost) thread & like you, I tried to go from 'illicite lover' to 'friend' - in my case, it didn't work, and I don't think it ever really can..not without a few years under the bridge. Even then, it's disrespectful to your spouse. What would you think, if she wanted to be best pals with someone she was having an affair with previously?

 

NC is hard- the silence is almost unbearable. You may check your phone 10 times a day, wonder if it's her every time it rings, and in my case, feel so guilty for feeling that way that it stops you bonding with your wife..but it does get better

 

I felt as you did - like I wanted 2 universes to exist- 1 where I could be a married man & keep my family happy, and another where I could go off and be with OW

Like you, I thought I loved my OW. But here's the truth- I thought I loved her - just not enough to make any sort of commitment to her or give up anything I had. Is that Love?

 

What I loved was the attention & the ego trip. I was selfish. But so was she, and so really is your OW. She knew going in that you were married.

 

Maybe she's gone NC to get you chasing her, maybe she's relieving her guilt by letting you patch things up. Maybe like mine, she's already lining up the next option

 

It may help to think about how good she was at the deception side of things with you. If she did that effortlessly, then consider whether she may have done this before..

 

Don't be like I was & start seeing OW as a panacea and home life as an insurmountable problem. If you had never met OW, would you be considering leaving your W? If not, then perhaps, like me, your A was more about you

 

I don't have any answers, just some observations from my own experience. I nearly lost everything, but I was lucky

 

feel free to pm me if I can be of any use. look after yourself

 

Matt

 

Matt, thanks so much for your support - I really appreciate you posting here when you have so many problems of your own. I hope that if ever I get out of this mess I will be able to contribute to LS in a more positive way. Your situation sounds very similar to mine. However in my case I was willing to make a commitment to the (single) OW but she got cold feet and started to back off. What haunted me was the thought that she was doing this not because she didn't love or want me (I was sure of that) but because she didn't want to be responsible for breaking up a M.

 

You're right about the NC. It has been almost unbearable. I have caved in and replied to the email now and suggested it will be OK to keep in touch. The problem is we were such good friends and to be honest it's that part of the R I miss the most. She was never the super affectionate type anyway and if you wanted an ego boost she is the last person you would pick! How long did you try the "friends" thing and why didn't it work out?

 

I would love to PM you some time if that's OK? How do I do this?

[MrIndependent]

Hi there, Mr I and hello Matt.

Mr I can you see that Matt and I have told you the exact same thing. You don't really love her if you did you would leave and make a life with her.

 

I was harsh the last time as I feel you need to listen to those of us fools who have done the same.

 

...

 

Oh cherrymoon, I read your post with tears streaming down my face. I am so sorry that you (and your family) have been through all this. You were not harsh with me, just honest and I am beginning at long last to come to my senses. I am like an addict in rehab at the moment and as the pain begins to fade I am starting to shift focus from myself to others that I have hurt, neglected and been selfish with. I suppose that is why I think I can continue contact with OW because I am starting to take back control over the situation. I am pretty sure that even if we met up now I would not cave in and go back to her. This is not because I don't care for her (I know there are those that don't believe it can be love) but precisely because I do. I also care for my W but the jury is still out as to whether we can remain married. I will try though. The problem is I suspect I will be tempted to do this again and it is not fair on her to continue this behaviour.

 

Thank you so much for pouring your heart out on this forum and I wish I could be more support to you. Maybe you will allow me to be once I have sorted myself out?

[cherrymoon]

Don't cry for me. I chose to do what I did, this is the price I paid.

 

None of us can tell you honestly that you don't love this woman and if like me you morn the friendship that is hard. I wonder are you and I more alike?

 

The thing is when this is all over you will wonder did you ever love her.

 

Affairs take us away from the reality which is our marriages and we gain so much from the other person because we share quality time with them, no kids, no bills no everyday stuff.

I know it makes no difference to you what anybody here says because you so strongly believe in what you feel.

 

I was so afraid of letting go of my MM I was paniced, I cried my heart out I lost weight the works.

The truth is when I lost my husband I felt a million billion times worse and I was convinced I didn't love him.

Funny thing is love isn't actually excitement etc it is something engrained into your soul every second of everyday you have lived with that person.

It is every tear and every second of laughter. It isn't a feeling or an emotion it is you. It is like the air we breath we can't see it or touch it but without that specific air/love we cannot go on.

The only thing to live for after you lose that love are your kids and hope that you can reverse the mistake and live your life with the power of hindsight.

 

Mr I have myhindsight and everybody else who is telling you walk away.

[cherrymoon]

last thing for now. Under no circumstances can you have contact with this lady and save your marriage. Only when it has completely shut down can you start to see things clearly and then you can fix your marriage if that is what you want.

 

I truly know this and if I am never right about anthing else this is fact.

Only when you decide no more will your wife have a chance in your eyes.

 

If nothing else you are rubbing your wifes face in it by keping contact. You have enough friends and you married your bestfriend.

 

Give your wife that little bit of respect. As for other woman well as one of them i can safetly say Tough! Married men are just that married.

She will survive and she will rebuild her life and she will be happy.

 

Your loyalty is to your wife. Be strong and be tough it hurts but it will fade.

[smartgirl]

last thing for now. Under no circumstances can you have contact with this lady and save your marriage. Only when it has completely shut down can you start to see things clearly and then you can fix your marriage if that is what you want.

 

I truly know this and if I am never right about anthing else this is fact.

Only when you decide no more will your wife have a chance in your eyes.

 

If nothing else you are rubbing your wifes face in it by keping contact. You have enough friends and you married your bestfriend.

 

Give your wife that little bit of respect. As for other woman well as one of them i can safetly say Tough! Married men are just that married.

She will survive and she will rebuild her life and she will be happy.

 

Your loyalty is to your wife. Be strong and be tough it hurts but it will fade.

 

I want to echo these ideas. By continuing a secret relationship - no matter what the nature - you are being disrespectful towards your wife and you are weakening the exclusivity that a good marriage should have. I don't think you will ever have a quality relationship with your wife if you cannot bring yourself to show her this amount of respect and consideration.

 

I know you think there are problems from your wife's side in this. But what I see is a man who makes proclamations, and then doesn't follow through. I see a man who plays his wife for a fool when it suits him. I see a man who says he wants a good relationship with his wife, but isn't willing to stop having a relationship with another woman. I see a man who thinks it is ok to be deceptive within his marriage. Look at all those things. How would you feel if you were the recipient of that treatment?

 

You can't build or rebuild a marriage on a foundation of dishonesty and disrespect. You are kidding yourself if you believe otherwise.

[smartgirl]

Matt, thanks so much for your support - I really appreciate you posting here when you have so many problems of your own. I hope that if ever I get out of this mess I will be able to contribute to LS in a more positive way. Your situation sounds very similar to mine. However in my case I was willing to make a commitment to the (single) OW but she got cold feet and started to back off. What haunted me was the thought that she was doing this not because she didn't love or want me (I was sure of that) but because she didn't want to be responsible for breaking up a M.

 

You're right about the NC. It has been almost unbearable. I have caved in and replied to the email now and suggested it will be OK to keep in touch. The problem is we were such good friends and to be honest it's that part of the R I miss the most. She was never the super affectionate type anyway and if you wanted an ego boost she is the last person you would pick! How long did you try the "friends" thing and why didn't it work out?

 

I would love to PM you some time if that's OK? How do I do this?

 

Just another thought for you to ponder. Maybe she started to see you with new eyes when she saw how quickly and easily you were willing to walk out on your wife and children. Maybe she didn't want to get seriously involved with someone who could be so detached and uncaring. Honestly, I've sort of wondered about this aspect because you don't indicate much, if any, concern in your posts for your children's feelings in all this.

 

Many people see a difference between a sexual liaison on the side and actually breaking up marriages over it. A cheater might be ok to have a fling with, but not every OW wants to marry one.

[angie2443]

A cheater might be ok to have a fling with, but not every OW wants to marry one.

 

Not the smart OWs, anyways.

[MrIndependent]

Just another thought for you to ponder. Maybe she started to see you with new eyes when she saw how quickly and easily you were willing to walk out on your wife and children. Maybe she didn't want to get seriously involved with someone who could be so detached and uncaring. Honestly, I've sort of wondered about this aspect because you don't indicate much, if any, concern in your posts for your children's feelings in all this.

 

Many people see a difference between a sexual liaison on the side and actually breaking up marriages over it. A cheater might be ok to have a fling with, but not every OW wants to marry one.

 

Except that I was considering moving out before I met the OW and told her this and the reasons behind it. It's not like I met her and then suddenly I wasn't happy at home. Believe me the effect on the children is something I have considered very carefully and is the main reason I haven't left before now. But they are grown up now and I think they would understand.

 

To be honest I have never been entirely sure what OW wanted and I don't think she even knows herself. I do know it was more than a fling though. Originally she told me she loved me and wanted me to move 500 miles to be with her (it is easier for me to do this due to my work). This would obviously be a big step for me but when it eventually became clear I was willing to do it she backed off and said she didn't want to be responsible for breaking up my M. Now I have no way of knowing whether this is the real reason or whether she just got fed up with me. I think you know deep down though if someone loves you and even in my current, more objective state I would say she probably did/does. None of this really matters anymore though because she has said she wants to end it so that is that.

[2sunny]

maybe you should explain to your wife the deficiencies in your marriage/relationship and that you were trying to fill the void with the company of another woman.

 

that would allow a good starting point as far as honesty and clarity between the two of you as to whether or not you want to work on the deficient areas as a team or not.

 

you may be surprised to know your wife's reaction to information once she knows the truth.

 

i'm sure she already knows something is terribly wrong - she is just unsure of what it all entails.

 

to allow her the truth of the whole situation is only being respectful of her position in the marriage and to decide together where to go with that information is up to both of you at that point.

 

you will feel better even if you leave the marriage knowing that you were truthful and exhausted all measures of reconciliation before walking away.

[smartgirl]

Except that I was considering moving out before I met the OW and told her this and the reasons behind it. It's not like I met her and then suddenly I wasn't happy at home. Believe me the effect on the children is something I have considered very carefully and is the main reason I haven't left before now. But they are grown up now and I think they would understand.

 

To be honest I have never been entirely sure what OW wanted and I don't think she even knows herself. I do know it was more than a fling though. Originally she told me she loved me and wanted me to move 500 miles to be with her (it is easier for me to do this due to my work). This would obviously be a big step for me but when it eventually became clear I was willing to do it she backed off and said she didn't want to be responsible for breaking up my M. Now I have no way of knowing whether this is the real reason or whether she just got fed up with me. I think you know deep down though if someone loves you and even in my current, more objective state I would say she probably did/does. None of this really matters anymore though because she has said she wants to end it so that is that.

 

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I thought I remembered you saying something about the children being difficult, so I thought they were still at home.

 

That makes things less complicated in some ways in terms of looking at the marriage in terms of the two people involved, without the challenges of hurting young children.

 

So I will repeat what I said in an earlier post. You and your wife both deserve a rewarding, solid marriage. Taking OW out of the picture -- along with the possibility of any future OW -- you have to figure out if you really want to be with your wife and she with you. Speaking for myself middle aged or not, I would not want to be in a marriage of convenience waiting while my H looks for something better.

 

Your determination of whether to stay in your marriage should not be based on how it compares to a new opportunity. It should be based on whether the two of you can be happy together or not. She already told you she isn't happy either. Have you had any follow up conversations about that?

[smartgirl]

Not the smart OWs, anyways.

 

Hear, hear! If I could figure out how to do one of those smiley face things I would do that.

[2sunny]

i was thinking that same thing.

 

possibly that he has resumed his communication with OW and isn't needing support for NC now.

 

yikes!

[whichwayisup]

Let's not assume the worst here. Maybe he's away on holidays with his wife or something.