Author HopePhil Posted June 17, 2008 Author Posted June 17, 2008 I do not even know if she has Hope. Plus, I am afraid that if I pull away too much, it will remind her of how I was when we were married. That I wanted too much of my own space and I ignored her. I DO NOT EVER want her to feel like that again. To feel alone.
TrustInYourself Posted June 17, 2008 Posted June 17, 2008 I do not even know if she has Hope. Plus, I am afraid that if I pull away too much, it will remind her of how I was when we were married. That I wanted too much of my own space and I ignored her. I DO NOT EVER want her to feel like that again. To feel alone. Exactly the same situation with my wife. She left me because she always felt alone, even when I was around. Now, what?
badbrit Posted June 17, 2008 Posted June 17, 2008 Phil and Trust Can I ask one thing please? You say you left your partners alone too much. I want to clarify this please. Did you leave them alone too much and then they dumped you while this was happening OR did you leave them alone too much, they told you or you figured it was not a good thing, changed it and then were dumped? In the weeks directly before the breakup, where they left alone too much or were you with them more than you had been previously?
badbrit Posted June 17, 2008 Posted June 17, 2008 Actually that is only relevant to Phil, Trust you said that she felt alone even when you were around. You failed to meet her emotional needs dude, totally. Obviously did not listen to her, emphasize with her, support her, be there emotionally with her. That one sentence you said suggests some big failings if she felt alone even when you were there.
TrustInYourself Posted June 17, 2008 Posted June 17, 2008 Phil and Trust Can I ask one thing please? You say you left your partners alone too much. I want to clarify this please. Did you leave them alone too much and then they dumped you while this was happening OR did you leave them alone too much, they told you or you figured it was not a good thing, changed it and then were dumped? In the weeks directly before the breakup, where they left alone too much or were you with them more than you had been previously? The past 2 years I played online games in every spare moment. I recently had to take business trips out of town frequently. These trips would last a week. When I retured I would be back at my computer, playing the games, ignoring my wife's subtle signs of unhappiness and discontent. After my last trip, which was with an old buddy to Las Vegas, she never called or texted me once. Upon my return, I was told, she felt, "happier when I am gone." This separation has been planned for months. I have seen history of apartment searching, bank accounts being set up, since January. She moved out in April, after my trip to Vegas. I told her something as well. I told her sometimes you have to freeze people out for them to miss you and forget the pain. She was like, "Are you sure? You did that to me for 2 years. It worked awhile, but now look at where we are."
TrustInYourself Posted June 17, 2008 Posted June 17, 2008 Actually that is only relevant to Phil, Trust you said that she felt alone even when you were around. You failed to meet her emotional needs dude, totally. Obviously did not listen to her, emphasize with her, support her, be there emotionally with her. That one sentence you said suggests some big failings if she felt alone even when you were there. Bingo. Now I'm going to play russian roulette and give her more time alone. Who's crazy? hahahaha!
sunshinegirl Posted June 18, 2008 Posted June 18, 2008 Actually that is only relevant to Phil, Trust you said that she felt alone even when you were around. You failed to meet her emotional needs dude, totally. Obviously did not listen to her, emphasize with her, support her, be there emotionally with her. That one sentence you said suggests some big failings if she felt alone even when you were there. I haven't read this whole thread but the bolded thing above stood out to me. (Sorry if what I say is really out of context.) I think this is huge. I am getting the impression that some guys feel totally blindsided by breakups/divorces because they thought they were good husbands - doing lots of helpful things around the house, being dutiful, etc. Paying bills on time, helping with childcare, etc. Then they feel like they get a raw deal because the breakup/breakdown seems to come from nowhere. I'm starting to see that a lot of the breakdowns that seem sudden/unexpected on the guy's part have their roots in the bolded part above. My guess is that many women, if not most, want or even need to have an empathic, emotional connection to their mates. I know I did, and my ex-boyfriend was actually really incapable or unwilling to provide any emotional grist in our relationship. He was superbly good at cooking for me, doing hobbies, activities, and trips together...we *did* lots of great things together... but you know what? I actually felt alone when I was with him because he could not, or would not, provide any emotional, empathic connection. I ultimately couldn't talk to him about what was on my mind - I would get back one-sentence replies and no questions, no banter, no back and forth. He demonstrated no curiosity or interest in my friends or family. He rarely, if ever, checked in with "hey, how are you doing? You seem down." He did not seem invested, interested, or concerned with who I AM, as a person, or what I care about. I was just some warm body that he liked to have sex with and generally liked to have around. I certainly don't expect men to relate in the same ways women relate. But the complete absence of emotional connection was leaving me feeling extremely alone even if we were the only two people in the house. SO. To the degree that the poster's wife was feeling alone even when with him? I think badbrit is right on, that this area, this failing, is why. Sorry again if this is totally irrelevant.
Author HopePhil Posted June 18, 2008 Author Posted June 18, 2008 My ex was always there for me when I needed her AND when I wanted her. I was only there for my ex when I thought she needed me. After hearing what she said, soon after the split, I was never truly there for her when she needed me and was never there when she wanted me. I did not believe that at first, but I do now. That is why I am there for her every time she texts me, when she calls me, when she whispers my name... I want to be there for her when she wants me. If I can do that, I will always be there for her when she needs me.
n9688m Posted June 18, 2008 Posted June 18, 2008 I know I did, and my ex-boyfriend was actually really incapable or unwilling to provide any emotional grist in our relationship. He was superbly good at cooking for me, doing hobbies, activities, and trips together...we *did* lots of great things together... but you know what? I actually felt alone when I was with him because he could not, or would not, provide any emotional, empathic connection. I ultimately couldn't talk to him about what was on my mind - I would get back one-sentence replies and no questions, no banter, no back and forth. He demonstrated no curiosity or interest in my friends or family. He rarely, if ever, checked in with "hey, how are you doing? You seem down." He did not seem invested, interested, or concerned with who I AM, as a person, or what I care about. I was just some warm body that he liked to have sex with and generally liked to have around. But did you tell him this? Or did you expect him to be a mindreader?
sunshinegirl Posted June 18, 2008 Posted June 18, 2008 But did you tell him this? Or did you expect him to be a mindreader? Nope, didn't expect a mind-reader. Without rehashing all details, suffice it to say that after a certain amount of time it was becoming exhausting to try to engage him in conversations that he really had no interest in participating in. It's one thing if it's just thoughtlessness, and a conversation or two of "hey, I need a bit more engagement from you" can elicit desired behavioral adjustments. It's really another when the person really doesn't seem to have the ability to produce genuine curiosity about others. I also tried to get him to talk about his divorce, and he just wouldn't go there. Intellectualized the whole thing, which now in retrospect strikes me as his way of avoiding dealing with his feelings about it. At the end of the day, he cheated on me and left me for someone else. So I am left holding the bag and trying to make sense of what happened and why. As I reflect on things, it becomes more and more clear that there were a lot of flags, mostly related to his unwillingness to talk with me - so I never got a full read on what was going on for HIM emotionally, and he certainly wasn't there for ME emotionally. It culminated in him cheating on me, so... there you go. Lack of empathy and caring to the nth degree.
n9688m Posted June 18, 2008 Posted June 18, 2008 Nope, didn't expect a mind-reader. Without rehashing all details, suffice it to say that after a certain amount of time it was becoming exhausting to try to engage him in conversations that he really had no interest in participating in. I don't buy it. You sound just like my STBXW. I bet in between those "exhasting" efforts you told him you love him. I bet you kept having sex with him as often as ever. I bet you never told him directly that you are concerned he is not more engaged with you. I bet you kept planning for the future with him. In short, you sent signals that you were happy and didn't confront the true issues. In short, I bet you tried to "fix" the problem by yourself and you forgot that he needed to be part of the fix.
sunshinegirl Posted June 18, 2008 Posted June 18, 2008 I don't buy it. You sound just like my STBXW. I bet in between those "exhasting" efforts you told him you love him. I bet you kept having sex with him as often as ever. I bet you never told him directly that you are concerned he is not more engaged with you. I bet you kept planning for the future with him. In short, you sent signals that you were happy and didn't confront the true issues. In short, I bet you tried to "fix" the problem by yourself and you forgot that he needed to be part of the fix. Wow, thanks for projecting your relationship onto mine. If you like, feel free to look up my threads to learn more about my situation. I certainly can see today things that I never saw while I was in the relationship. I'm sure I wouldn't have described what was happening at the time with the same clarity as I do today. At the same time, I would appreciate it if you would refrain from painting me with the same broad brush as your XW. I'm not her, I don't know her, I wasn't in a relationship with you. We're both hurting here, not clear to me why/how it helps for you to criticize my situation.
n9688m Posted June 18, 2008 Posted June 18, 2008 We're both hurting here, not clear to me why/how it helps for you to criticize my situation. Maybe it is indeed projection on my part, but I see this as a pretty common theme in various threads and it's pretty sad to see overall, not just in my case. I see guys posting who love their wives to pieces yet their wives or girlfriends one day just wakeup and leave suddenly because they felt the guys didn't love them enough. Sounds like a pretty bad case of miscommunication which could have been pretty easily fixed if the woman explained her needs more directly. And yes, I'm pretty angry over just that issue myself - among other reasons because of two young children who will be forever scarred by this.
sunshinegirl Posted June 18, 2008 Posted June 18, 2008 Maybe it is indeed projection on my part, but I see this as a pretty common theme in various threads and it's pretty sad to see overall, not just in my case. I see guys posting who love their wives to pieces yet their wives or girlfriends one day just wakeup and leave suddenly because they felt the guys didn't love them enough. Sounds like a pretty bad case of miscommunication which could have been pretty easily fixed if the woman explained her needs more directly. And yes, I'm pretty angry over just that issue myself - among other reasons because of two young children who will be forever scarred by this. Well, thanks for clarifying this. I am totally with you on how completely devastating it is to think things are going fine, or okay, or well enough, or whatever, only to be suddenly left by someone who, without communicating, just decides they are done. To be clear in my case, I DID NOT LEAVE MY RELATIONSHIP. My ex cheated on me and left me. I am very much dealing with a similar loss: I had no clue up to that point that he was unhappy/didn't love me/was looking elsewhere. It was a total bombshell to me. And now, I have the opportunity to look back and identify the flags and the concerns that I was starting to have, even if I couldn't yet identify them as such while we were together. In our relationship, I loved him but always had this niggling something in the back of my mind that I couldn't put my finger on. I knew, for some reason, that I felt lonely with him. I knew something was off, something was missing. I was envious of other couples because they seemed to have that thing, whatever it was. Only now am I really able to identify that thing, and it's the lack of emotional connection. Could I have changed the course of our relationship with more explicit discussion? *shrug* I doubt it, to be honest. Increasingly, I believe my ex is only capable of a certain depth of feeling, a certain level of investment and caring for other people. I don't think he was capable of giving me what I needed. You can't do that with a conversation when the person simply can't give what you need. I was also starting to be irritated at always having to be the person to raise the tougher topics. In retrospect, I wouldn't have wanted to spend a lifetime with someone who avoided everything unpleasant or emotional. I'm really really sorry for what you're going through. But honestly, I'm closer to being in your shoes than being in your XW's.
n9688m Posted June 18, 2008 Posted June 18, 2008 I'm really really sorry for what you're going through. But honestly, I'm closer to being in your shoes than being in your XW's. OK I can see that - sorry about that.
TrustInYourself Posted June 18, 2008 Posted June 18, 2008 Sunshine, phil, n9, badbrit, Thanks for the insight. I want to change and be there emotionally. I don't want my wife to feel alone anymore. What are some things that I can do to open the door without alienating her request for space.
Author HopePhil Posted June 19, 2008 Author Posted June 19, 2008 What are some things that I can do to open the door without alienating her request for space? Just ask her if she would like your company. Thats all I have been doing. If she does not want your company or wants to have her space, she will tell you. I ask my ex-wife to dinner and she pretty much always says yes. Only told me no a couple of times.
Author HopePhil Posted June 20, 2008 Author Posted June 20, 2008 I am losing my mind. Being around the woman I would DIE for and not getting one ounce of affection is like running for 12 hours straight only to find out you have to run more. I feel drained. I show all of this love. I pour out my soul to her with the looks I give her and the way i word things and I get nothing. I JUST sent her a text telling her how I felt. It has only been about 10 minutes since she has left my house. We enjoyed dinner and some TV. We played with our son. She made contact with me, but was she testing me? I dont know. It was under the pretense that she was playing with my son, but she was touching my arm and my nose and my leg. (I have a thing for noses, so it kind of meant something when she touched mine... she knows this... She has a beautiful nose). Anyways, she normally responds quickly. She has not responded yet. I seriously doubt I will get one for awhile. At least until she gets home and maybe even longer. She may use the excuse of getting our son ready for bed or letting the dog out. She may ignore it all together. If she does, I may cry. I love this woman more than lady bugs. I do.
Surfer Girl Posted June 20, 2008 Posted June 20, 2008 It appears you are getting mixed signals... Perhaps the connection is still there... Yet, she could be afraid of becoming to intiment for fear of being in a relationship with you that may become more permanent...
Author HopePhil Posted June 20, 2008 Author Posted June 20, 2008 She just wants to be friends. She has no feelings beyond that. Thats the super short version of what we talked about. I cried. I feel like a fool for opening up to her... and a bigger one for breaking NC. I am back to square one... all of the progress of the past year has been erased.
TrustInYourself Posted June 20, 2008 Posted June 20, 2008 It's ok Phil. I doubt she even knows what she really wants. Hence the delay. Take steps back, try to be on the same emotional page as your ex wife. Time heals all wounds. I'm with you bro. Where's that jerky!
badbrit Posted June 20, 2008 Posted June 20, 2008 She is getting comfortable but she is not desiring him, if she was then he would not have to post here. He knows something is wrong and cannot push past the final hurdle. Like I said, Hope + Uncertainty = Desire and trust me, Desire is all you need. Would you dump someone you were hugely attracted to and desired loads? No, of course you wouldnt so realise you need to ex to feel that. What sparks desire? That which is hard to get, that which is not readily availabe, something that may not be available, something you respect, something that you fear you will lose if you do not give it what it wants. Go find any thread that has an ex calling, hanging out, saying they miss or love them, asking for second chance, sniffing around etc etc and in nearly every case it has happened after the dumped has started to recover and be strong again. Appears to be moving on, is dating someone else, is not calling, does not voice the desire to have the ex back etc - basically most cases of success or even the start of success happens when the ex thinks one of two things, that THEIR chance with the person they dumped has maybe started to pass by and it MAY be out of their hands or that the dumped person is not now the weak person they brushed off but is exhibiting universal attractive and independant qualities Oh and also go look at threads that have the dumped person think they have a second chance only for it to appear not to be the case, what is normally common in those cases? Being available, declaring love, asking how the dumpee feels, pushing, rushing, not being a challenge, being conquered again etc I feel the need to reprint this that I wrote which was ignored Phil. What you have been doing, how you have been acting and then "cracking" as you did had only one possible result - the one you had. It is all about human nature as I have already said. Screw "NC her face off" and the rest of the sentiments on those lines, this is totally you failing to follow the correct rules of engagement. Nothing you did was "attractive" and none of it did anything to meet her passion requirements, nothing you did would spark desire. If anything, it would only dampen it down further. There are methods to use and you did not use one of them, not one and in fact did the exact opposite - you gave her all she wanted without her having to give you anything in return. You were available, at her beck and call, her friend, clearly wanting more, clearly available, acting weak and needy, soft and nothing like a "leader" or alphamale to stoke her fires. I did try warning of this and you should have listened and changed tactics but instead you did the worse thing possible by voicing your feelings and pushed her further away. However i am not here to lecture you and play "I told you so", I have just explained it so that you can see what you did wrong. What you should of done was start to break arrangements to see her occasionally. Give no explanation why (let her mind make her wonder and the power of that will drive her crazy and kick in "right of possesion" and losing it would kick in some desire), stop touching her feet and all that rubbish, be there, friendly, try some reflective listening but mix in some aloofness, UNDERstay your welcome (more is achieved in short bursts making someone want MORE than is achieved through hours of being there and nice), make her suspect you MAY be dating someone else or at least looking and open to it, do not do little jobs for her, get your heart off your sleeve and make her not sure how you feel, blow hot and cold (as she gets used to you pulling away and starts to get driven mad by it you suddenly blow hot briefly with being available and ultra nice), break habits and patterns and be a little unreliable (woman say they hate that, but come on now, they fall for Mr Unreliable and hard to read), give her a challenge. Up to you what you do know. All I will say is that your actions dictated only one result and you had it. Want to walk away then walk away, want to be smart and learn from this and use some commonsense then do it.
LosingMyDreamGirl Posted June 20, 2008 Posted June 20, 2008 I dont know what to do. I dont want to go full NC, because I still want to be her friend, but I dont want to just see her a couple of times a month.... As for sparking desire, I really do not see how that could happen. I dated a woman for 2 months. She tried the things you are telling me to do and they did nothing to make me like her more. Some of the things actually made me dislike her. History is truly repeating itself. When was 19-22, periodically I would tell her my feelings. How much I wanted to mean something to her and how much I cared. She didnt like it and it made her uncomfortable. She just wanted to be friends. I was. It was when her dad had a heart attack that I was there for her. Not sure how that made her love me. I was so stupid to ignore her. It's like that song from The Calling - Wherever You Will Go. There is one part in the song that tears me up - "If I could turn back time, I'll go wherever you will go." I wish I could do that. She loved me SO much then and would have done ANYTHING for me. I was SO dumb.
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