twice_shy Posted May 28, 2008 Posted May 28, 2008 And it's the same with marriage, each couple knows BEST what they need for their marriage to be.. If that were the case, she wouldn't be on this forum would she? They chose the open relationship, then they should embrace it and not complain about either one of them f###ing someone else.
twice_shy Posted May 28, 2008 Posted May 28, 2008 In a case of an open marriage forsaking other may mean emotionally not sexually, it seems that was the agreement in this case. Oh please...:lmao::lmao: "You can have wild monkey sex with someone else all you want....but please don't develop any feelings".....LMFAO.
Tomcat33 Posted May 28, 2008 Posted May 28, 2008 If that were the case, she wouldn't be on this forum would she? They chose the open relationship, then they should embrace it and not complain about either one of them f###ing someone else. If you had read correctly you would see that nowhere in this thread did she complain about him f'ing someone else, she is wondering what to do with the feelings she is developing for someone she has not even slept with. BIG difference.
BadKittyNo Posted May 28, 2008 Posted May 28, 2008 "We've discussed the possibility of emotional involvement before and it's pretty much been like "we'll communicate and cross that bridge when we come to it." That seems like a mistake, looking back on it." Yes, you are right... "rules" in a relationship can't be made up as you go along. There can be some room for personal growth and change but the basics have to be discussed and agreed on from the start. Right now the wisest course of action would be to detatch from this guy, and let everything settle down. Then sit down and have some serious talks with your husband about whether you want your marriage to remain only sexually open or whether you want to explore the possibility of having a polyamorous relationship. And that is a VERY scary step for a lot of people. Fun and games are one thing, but when feelings enter into the picture it can get really threatening, really fast and may be something that either or both of you just don't feel like you can deal with. And that's okay, the point is to set the boundaries and rules of your marriage and make sure both of you have a very clear understanding of where they stand now, and where they could possibly go in the future. I don't have any personal experience in purely sexually open relationships, but I am involved in a polyamorous relationship and can give input on that.
taylor Posted May 28, 2008 Posted May 28, 2008 theline, I have just read thru this entire thread and want to add my 2 cents. When I read your first post, I saw myself. I was involved in an EA with a coworker for 7 months. The connection strengthened when we were put into quasi-supervisory positions and had to work closer together for several months. Like you, I had a major attraction to this man, fantasized about him, couldn't wait to see him every day. Long story short, I LET him get closer to me, I LET myself get closer to him, I LET him flirt, I LET myself flirt, I LET my heart open to him, and I LET myself fall in love with him, I LET him become more important to me than my husband. These were all choices I made. It doesn't matter one bit that you are in an open marriage and/or what the "rules" are. Here is what matters: Does this man's words and actions trigger strong emotions in you? Do you feel "let down" when he is not around? Feel "alive and exhilerated" when you are with him? Do you think about ways to impress him or ways to make him happy/laugh? When you are with this man, do all thoughts of your husband go out of your head? Do you long for this man...miss him...when he is away from you? Do you spend time anticipating your next meeting with him? Do you feel like you are opening your heart to this man? Do you feel like you are falling in love with him? Do you feel concern that you will not be able to control yourself if given the chance to cross the line into a PA? If you answer YES to these questions, you are in a full-blown Emotional Affair with this man. You will not be able to just walk away from this affair, even now, without getting hurt. You are too emotionally involved already. You will not be able to discuss your true feelings for this man with your husband without him getting hurt. He is a human being with feelings. It makes no difference the kind of marriage you have and the rules...totally irrelevent. You are setting yourself up to get hurt. Why? What are the chances this man is going to reciprocate your feelings...or be able to act on his feelings the way you might want him to? If you continue with the EA, you will want more of him. Is he willing to give you more at the expense of his marriage? He may decide he can't cross any more lines with you because of his marriage. How will that make you feel? If he has strong feelings for you, he may be willing to cross the line into a PA with you. That may make you happy. I'm sure it will feel good, but then what? Your emotional attachment will grow so strong you will feel like you can't live without him. You become the OW. What are the chances he will leave his wife for you? I'm just trying to show you what the road looks like in front of you. You will get hurt if you end the affair now, but you will be devastated if you allow it to continue. I lived "in the moment" in my EA. It felt so good I never questioned the consequences. I never looked down the road. When it ended, it felt like a fast moving train hitting a brick wall at full speed in a heavy fog. Rather than think about how he makes you feel, think about where this relationship is most likely to go if it continues. Do you see a good outcome? The pain is not worth the pleasure. I know. I am wallowing in it right now. Consider this. I haven't even mentioned how this EA will devastate your husband, the OM, or his wife. Take the pain and confusion you are going to feel and magnify that about 100 times to give you some idea of the hurt and pain that will result from this EA for everyone touched by the fallout. How it will affect you alone should give you plenty of reason to put an end to it.
Order & Chaos Posted May 29, 2008 Posted May 29, 2008 You did not understand my post. Read Owl's post. I think he explains things more clearly than I. I did understand it. It wasn't what you wrote. You didn't write, then, what you were intending to write. Also, then, you weren't clearly reading my posts as you would have/should have seen right off the bat that I wasn't arguing against Owl's point.
angie2443 Posted May 29, 2008 Posted May 29, 2008 I did understand it. It wasn't what you wrote. You didn't write, then, what you were intending to write. Also, then, you weren't clearly reading my posts as you would have/should have seen right off the bat that I wasn't arguing against Owl's point. I didn't want to respond to you as this conversation is getting a little too nasty for me. However, I did want to make it clear that when I said Owl could explain things better, I was reffering to EA's in general. I haven't been paying much attention to what you're saying to other posters and don't even know if you replied to Owl or said anything about his post.
Order & Chaos Posted May 29, 2008 Posted May 29, 2008 I didn't want to respond to you as this conversation is getting a little too nasty for me. However, I did want to make it clear that when I said Owl could explain things better, I was reffering to EA's in general. I haven't been paying much attention to what you're saying to other posters and don't even know if you replied to Owl or said anything about his post. How is it getting nasty? I don't think we have insulted each other or been disrespectful? Listen I think it is easy for many of us on here to pass judgment on others and sit on the fence poking other's with sticks. Now you did pass judgment on me right away commenting that I wasn't the right "type" to be married when in fact you do not know me to make that widespread of a judgement. But c'est la vie, that is your comment and my world doesn't stop turning b/c of it. All I have been arguing is your viewpoint on this. I find it interesting and am engaging in a little devil's advocate since you seem so black and white on it. If this is truly your belief then you should have enough logical backing to engage in a little intellectual tete a tete don't you think? My true viewpoint? I think there are millions of different people who are made up of millions of different stories, walking paths that are all different. Life is not black and white and even if I may not agree with what the other person is doing I am not egotistical enough to pass judgement on them especially on a snippet of their life that is being posted here. I understand that it is a small dimension of their lives and who am I to be judge, jury, and executioner? I guess I just don't think that highly enough about myself. Plus judging others does not make me feel better about myself and my life. We all have our trials and crosses to bear and I hope that if/when I post an issue I get back the support and constructive criticism I am hoping for. Not b/c I am weak person or a selfish person but b/c that is what I would do for someone else. (FYI decreeing to others that they are not good marriage material, unless you are some type of expert and actually taken the proper amount of time to actually speak with them, is pompous and just plain mean) True maturity creates wisdom which allows the person to see that life is full of grey and jumping to conclusions/judgement almost never pans out well; life is full of irony so what goes around comes around. If you think this has been nasty then please put yourself in other's shoes when you are telling them that they should never marry when you don't even know them. That is a pretty nasty thing to say.
twice_shy Posted May 29, 2008 Posted May 29, 2008 If you had read correctly you would see that nowhere in this thread did she complain about him f'ing someone else, she is wondering what to do with the feelings she is developing for someone she has not even slept with. BIG difference. I was speaking in general of both of them with regards to an open relationship(again, code for "we wanna f##k other people") I know she didn't say anything about her complaining, but she is worried about him complaining. Well then I guess the open relationship isn't working out so well afterall. And don't gimme the bunk about "feelings".
BadKittyNo Posted May 29, 2008 Posted May 29, 2008 And don't gimme the bunk about "feelings". I'm not quite sure what you mean by "bunk" about feelings here. The OP clearly stated that she is in a dilemma because of the emotional attatchment (which I define as "feelings") she has developed in regards to this man. Could you please clarify what you are trying to invalidate by dismissing it as "bunk"? That she *is experiencing* an emotional attatchment (I.E. "feelings") towards this man, or the possibility that she even *can experience* an emotional attatchment (I.E. "feelings") for this man? Because she clearly states that there is something going on beyond sexual attraction, which is totally new ground for her, and thus the crux of the dilemma.
angie2443 Posted May 29, 2008 Posted May 29, 2008 Well that depends would you "do" your mom? :laugh: Ok some dark comic relief to ease the tension of the conversation. Of course we will confide our life problems to someone close to us like a family member or friend but to do so with someone of the opposite sex, not a gay friend that doesn't count there is no potential sexual relation that come of that, is very dangerous. Especially to initiate a new "friendship" with somoene of the opposite sex that is how all romantic relationships start through kinship and sharing of life experiences. But to also turn to someone of the opposite sex and "new" in a time of trauma or crisis adds more fuel to the situation because people tend to bond even more under stress or trauma. ANYONE who cannot understand that doesn't understand the meaning of "commitment" in a romantic relationship. Your problems with your spouse/partner are NOT to be discussed with a new person of the opposite set it is common courtesy and basic respect that is owed to your partner. The line are you male or female? Very well said. I bolded the part above, because to me this is the tricky part. I think what you said is true in respect to not discussing problems with your spouse to a potential sex partner, at the same time, when intimancy is aloud to build, you reach a point where you share everything. Personally, if it wasn't for the potential emotional bonds and alliances that could form in these open relationships, I wouldn't mind bieng in one myself (well, at least if I didn't have kids).
angie2443 Posted May 29, 2008 Posted May 29, 2008 yes but the question was posed by the OW in question not the OM, so that is HIS duty not hers.v We are here to give HER advice not the OM and what HE should do with his marriage. I understand what you are saying. Still, it is easy to forget that there is a human bieng here who is, as I understand anyway, bieng kept in the dark. To me, the kind thing to do is let her know what is up. This is just my opinion
twice_shy Posted May 29, 2008 Posted May 29, 2008 I'm not quite sure what you mean by "bunk" about feelings here. The OP clearly stated that she is in a dilemma because of the emotional attatchment (which I define as "feelings") she has developed in regards to this man. Could you please clarify what you are trying to invalidate by dismissing it as "bunk"? Here is what I said in a previous email about the feelings thing as an example of a conversation I can see happening with people who are in an "open relationship". ------------------------- "You can have wild monkey sex with someone else all you want....but please don't develop any feelings".....LMFAO."
BadKittyNo Posted May 29, 2008 Posted May 29, 2008 "You can have wild monkey sex with someone else all you want....but please don't develop any feelings".....LMFAO." Okay, I still don't follow... The OP states that instead of the casual sexual relationship she is used to (what you term "wild monkey sex") that she has developed an emotional attatchment (I.E. "feelings) with this man (which is totally new territory for her). That is her dilemma. What are you "LYFO" about? The fact that she developed these feelings? The fact that *any* person can develop these feelings? Or the fact that she is in a dilemma over developing these feelings? I just don't understand the reason for the "LMFO" over her situation.
twice_shy Posted May 29, 2008 Posted May 29, 2008 "You can have wild monkey sex with someone else all you want....but please don't develop any feelings".....LMFAO." Okay, I still don't follow... The OP states that instead of the casual sexual relationship she is used to (what you term "wild monkey sex") that she has developed an emotional attatchment (I.E. "feelings) with this man (which is totally new territory for her). That is her dilemma. What are you "LYFO" about? Because what do all these people that come here claiming to have an "open relationship" complain about? That some "rule" was broken? What do they think is going to happen when they open up their relationship and let each other boff other people? THAT is what I am LMFAO about. The fact that she developed these feelings? The fact that *any* person can develop these feelings? Or the fact that she is in a dilemma over developing these feelings? I just don't understand the reason for the "LMFO" over her situation. No, the fact that it is bound to happen and they created this mess themselves by being in an open relationship. Its like I said, they are saying, "you can f##k anyone you want, but don't you dare develop feelings for anyone". She obviously thinks he will be mad because he doesn't care about the sex, but would care about the feelings. Point was, they opened up the relationship. What the hell did she think was going to happen?
GreenX Posted May 29, 2008 Posted May 29, 2008 I really don't have a good answer for that. That's why I started this thread, I guess. I feel really secretive about it and I don't know why. This isn't normally how I am. Feeling like this is uncharted territory for me. You've answered this numerous times throughout the thread. You like the attention the OM gives you. You've stated that you and your husband have been having your fair share of problems and the OM pretty much 'balances' out what you're missing in your marriage. Correct me if I'm wrong. Yeah, it is. I don't get it either. You've also stated that you think you're in denial. I have to agree with that statement. I think you are definitely in denial. I don't think that I'm all that emotionally involved with the OM, but maybe I'm in deep denial. I don't even know. see above quote _________________ I've personally been in your shoes. Well, aside from the marriage part. We didn't get that far. But, I was having issues in my relationship and I got 'comfy' basically, threw my wall up and just said 'this is how things will be, so-be-it' and ignored all the warning signs. I befriended someone and basically feel head over heels for them. They were everything my SO wasn't. I didn't see it right away, I was too busy being on cloud 9 and anxiously awaiting to talk with that person again (sort of like you are when he gets back from his vacation). It destroyed my relationship I was in at the time, but thankfully, we're back together and things couldn't be any better for us. He looks back in disgust (my current SO, the one I cheated on through my EA) when I look back in disgust AND that it was a stepping stone for where I am, and who I am today. You need to first fix your marriage before you can focus on a friendship/other with this OM. You are attracted to him for things that your husband is lacking. You 'shouldn't' be getting those 'key' things from anyone other than your H. You are hesitant to discuss this with your H because you are 'emotionally' attached to this OM and this wasn't in the rules when you and your husband decided on an open marriage. As you said, you had casual flings in the past and they meant nothing. This on the otherhand is very different because you're enjoying someone else for what you should be getting only from your H. If your H is up for MC I advise strongly you consider it. If he doesn't want to, then go for yourself. It will help you to see what the main issue is and you will understand why you posted here to begin with. As you said, this is uncharted territory. But know, you don't have to go through it alone. But, the OM is definitely NOT the one who should be 'exploring' it with you. G'luck and Take care
Author theline Posted May 29, 2008 Author Posted May 29, 2008 twice shy, what are you trying to accomplish here? Do you think you're being at all helpful, or are you just enjoying being smug at someone else's expense? If it's the former, you're not. If it's the latter, I really would rather you'd take it into the Personal Rants forum instead of crapping in my thread. I don't even think you've read closely enough to understand what's going on here. To those who have been constructive and helpful, thank you. I have a lot to think about. I'm not sure where to go from here.
BadKittyNo Posted May 29, 2008 Posted May 29, 2008 Well, it's really not all that unusual of a problem. When couples set vague boundaries, eventually there is going to be some confusion about where the boundaries actually lie and what is okay and what is not okay. It doesn't even have to be about sex. It can be about anything. The problem the OP is facing really isn't about sex. It's about figuring out exactly where the boundaries lie in regards to her marriage. She and her husband had agreed to "cross that bridge with they came to it" regarding developing feelings for other people. Which really doesn't work all that well because once you come to that "bridge", the issue is right there front and center. "Crossing that bridge when we come to it" is usually a way to delay or put off difficult decisions or conversations. Don't want to worry about it now, will wait until "if and when" we're actually faced with it. It could be about anything really.
twice_shy Posted May 29, 2008 Posted May 29, 2008 twice shy, what are you trying to accomplish here? Do you think you're being at all helpful, or are you just enjoying being smug at someone else's expense? If it's the former, you're not. If it's the latter, I really would rather you'd take it into the Personal Rants forum instead of crapping in my thread. I don't even think you've read closely enough to understand what's going on here. To those who have been constructive and helpful, thank you. I have a lot to think about. I'm not sure where to go from here. What I'm trying to accomplish is this. You are in an "open relationship", whatever the heck that title is trying to water down. And in a relationship like that, neither of you, in my opinion, has the right to complain, or feel bad, whether its just sex, feelings, emotions...whatever. You chose the lifestyle, you take what comes with it. Either you are committed to your partner, or you are not committed to your partner. And again, in my opinion, there is no committment in an open relationship. Therefore, whats the problem?
Tomcat33 Posted May 29, 2008 Posted May 29, 2008 What I'm trying to accomplish is this. You are in an "open relationship", whatever the heck that title is trying to water down. And in a relationship like that, neither of you, in my opinion, has the right to complain, or feel bad, whether its just sex, feelings, emotions...whatever. You chose the lifestyle, you take what comes with it. Either you are committed to your partner, or you are not committed to your partner. And again, in my opinion, there is no committment in an open relationship. Therefore, whats the problem? Yeah but TS you are missing the point what Theline is perplexed about can happen to anyone, open marriage or not, it is not about sex it is about developing feelings for someone new. This is the problem and you keep talking about monkey sex and all that crap, if she was having "monkey sex" with this guy she wouldn't even be here posting because there would be NO problem, outside sex in an open marriage is not a problem emotional attachment is. So in essence she is feeling what any nornmal person would feel faced with having these clandestine feelings for someone OTHER than the person she is commited too. Yes they are in an open marriage, NO that does not mean there is NO level of commitement at all just because they choose to have open sex. angie2443Quote: I understand what you are saying. Still, it is easy to forget that there is a human bieng here who is, as I understand anyway, bieng kept in the dark. To me, the kind thing to do is let her know what is up. This is just my opinion absolutely I agree, and don't think that people who get involved in A are not aware that there is another innocent person involved that is being deceived, this is what makes affairs SO hard for people who have a "heart" But that person no matter how much you try to think about them in the moment that you are so clouded by the feelings you have for each other in A does take on a ghost-like presence, it is once you are knee deep that this person becomes very real and when it hurts the most....
MarriedLife Posted May 29, 2008 Posted May 29, 2008 I haven't told my H what's going on That statement right there SPEAKS VOLUMES. It means you are breaking your rules of an "Open Marriage". I believe you can be COMMITTED in an open realtionship but in my opinion you're not being committed if you can't tell your H what you're doing. I'm going through some issues with my W and I have seriously thought that perhaps I have a more "open" mindset than her. I get open marriages. What I've learned is honesty is EVERYTHING. I was finally honest with my W and now we are at a stage where she's able to make an INFORMED DECISION. We are working on our marriage and whatever the outcome at least we approached this with HONESTY. You owe your H the ability for him to make an INFORMED DECISION. As for the OM. You're playing with fire. Lets say you do get the green light from hubby to "play". Cool, wonderful. Be honest and have fun... but... you're not committed to the OM. You don't have an open relationship with the OM. What happens when you meet OM2? or OM3? How will OM1 feel? Do you care? Is he as open and understanding as H? I think OM will be crushed when he finds out you have others because well you're given that luxury.Also OM is not in your daily life, he doesn't have to deal with the daily life struggles you and your H deal with. With OM it's fantasy and fun. With H it's the daily grind and reality. Just understand where the fun and giddyness is coming from. One day you'll grow tired of OM and you'll bounce to the new fun and exciting thing. OM better understand this or he's do for a rude awakening.
MarriedLife Posted May 29, 2008 Posted May 29, 2008 I'm sacrificing to make my marriage work. If no joy' date=' goodbye. [/quote'] Like myself I had to be open and honest with my W so she can make an informed decision. Her decision was to allow us time so we can work on our marriage. If in the end, I truly have no connection with my W then we part ways. The point is when you get it all out in the open then you have a solid place to start. You owe your spouse honesty.
GreenX Posted June 3, 2008 Posted June 3, 2008 Looking for an update, if any. I know you state OM would be home this week. Are you keeping your distance or are you guys back to your normal routine? Have you talked with your H? Hope all is well
twice_shy Posted June 3, 2008 Posted June 3, 2008 Yeah but TS you are missing the point what Theline is perplexed about can happen to anyone, open marriage or not, it is not about sex it is about developing feelings for someone new. This is the problem and you keep talking about monkey sex and all that crap, if she was having "monkey sex" with this guy she wouldn't even be here posting because there would be NO problem, outside sex in an open marriage is not a problem emotional attachment is. Point is, are people that stupid to think that it is easy to keep emotions in check when screwing other people? There has to be some physical attraction for two people to want to bone each other. And if that attraction is there, then it is MORE than a possibility that emotions will be involved. Sure someone can just go out and have sex and not get emotionally involved, but sooner or later, someone is going to get the itch for someone. Why do people that swing always seem to have this little problem?
mopar crazy Posted June 3, 2008 Posted June 3, 2008 Point is, are people that stupid to think that it is easy to keep emotions in check when screwing other people? There has to be some physical attraction for two people to want to bone each other. And if that attraction is there, then it is MORE than a possibility that emotions will be involved. Sure someone can just go out and have sex and not get emotionally involved, but sooner or later, someone is going to get the itch for someone. Why do people that swing always seem to have this little problem? I agree w/ what you are saying. There was a couple of times I had slept w/ someone b/c I was drunk and horny. The next day I woke up asking myself "WTF did I do last night!?!?!" I knew what I had done, I remembered it, I was just mad as hell at myself. I knew the guys b4 I slept w/ them but had I been sober I probably would have never slept w/ them. And of course, they would come back for more and I would turn them away. I didn't even want to be around them b/c I was ashamed of myself. They would always show up. One time I was out horseback riding at my sisters and one of the guys had shown up there looking for me. It was miles from his house and it was in the middle of the afternoon. I knew he wasn't coming for a POA b/c he wouldn't do that while I was at my sisters. He did have a thing for me and I did NOT want to go there with him. One b/c he had a live in GF and the other, I didn't want a BF. There was an emotional attachment for the guys but there wasn't one for me. I was a bad girl! To the OP: I haven't read your thread b/c personally, I don't understand open M and I don't want to but from what I did read you never told your H about this guy and that is why I think it's wrong, open M or not.
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