Author theline Posted May 28, 2008 Author Posted May 28, 2008 Oh one more thing I forgot to mention given your opening post: you say that you have had no communication with your H as of lately and that you don't have time for each other, but you do have time to get involved in an extracurricular project with this man? Hmmmm... How important is this project to you? I was in the EXACT same situation I met my ex because we wanted to start a side project together and we wanted to combine our talents, later after many hours of working and brainstorming and launching our project we fell in love. Thing is I later found out he knew he was going to fall for me pretty much after the second time we met, UNBEKNOWNST to me. How did you meet this man if you can disclose without giving away too much, did you meet in a social setting or did you meet with the intention to work together? This project is very important to me. I met him in a social setting, and we deduced fairly quickly that we had the same interests and career goals. We were both working on the same project and decided that we would work better together than by ourselves, because we could bounce ideas off each other and keep each other accountable. Then he got involved in a group I was working with, so we're working together with other people there. I really can't say any more without totally giving myself away, if I haven't already. I wasn't attracted to him at all when I met him, it happened in the process of working together. My H and I both keep really busy with our own projects and interests (which can vary widely) and we work with other people on them a lot of the time. That isn't unusual for us. We've both just been particularly busy lately. ETA: I'm female, and my H and I are both bisexual, which means we can't have any other friends at all, I guess.
Order & Chaos Posted May 28, 2008 Posted May 28, 2008 And with the sports analogy, have you played sports? There are actually quite a few "successful" athletes who actually were not built for the sport and did deal with a decent amount of failure but actually through determination and perserverance become successful. Wouldn't that be a healthy recipe for a successful marriage as well? And what personality types or traits are successful for a marriage then?
Tomcat33 Posted May 28, 2008 Posted May 28, 2008 This project is very important to me. I met him in a social setting, and we deduced fairly quickly that we had the same interests and career goals. We were both working on the same project and decided that we would work better together than by ourselves, because we could bounce ideas off each other and keep each other accountable. Then he got involved in a group I was working with, so we're working together with other people there. I really can't say any more without totally giving myself away, if I haven't already. I wasn't attracted to him at all when I met him, it happened in the process of working together. My H and I both keep really busy with our own projects and interests (which can vary widely) and we work with other people on them a lot of the time. That isn't unusual for us. We've both just been particularly busy lately. ETA: I'm female, and my H and I are both bisexual, which means we can't have any other friends at all, I guess. so sorry I am so stupid I just realised The Line is the same person that opened this thread...sorry my bad was responding in another thread and got confused...duuuuuh Ok so your situation sounds EXACTLY like mine. thanks for responding.
Owl Posted May 28, 2008 Posted May 28, 2008 ETA: I'm female, and my H and I are both bisexual, which means we can't have any other friends at all, I guess. Not at all. But it does mean that you both need to be darned careful about how you interact with others, as sharing intimate communication with them often leads to affairs. And if you're both TRULY bisexual, then same sex friends CAN pose the same risk as opposite sex friends. It seems to me that having gone through an affair already, you'd see the 'danger' in the communications as we'd talked about it. What, EXACTLY, led to the beginning of YOUR affair? Was there intimate conversation that increased your attraction to him?
Tomcat33 Posted May 28, 2008 Posted May 28, 2008 ETA: I'm female, and my H and I are both bisexual, which means we can't have any other friends at all, I guess. so wait a minute if you are in an open marriage, and you are both bisexual then why in the world are you hiding this from him!?!?
Author theline Posted May 28, 2008 Author Posted May 28, 2008 It seems to me that having gone through an affair already, you'd see the 'danger' in the communications as we'd talked about it. What, EXACTLY, led to the beginning of YOUR affair? Was there intimate conversation that increased your attraction to him? I think you're getting me mixed up with Tomcat33, although I'm interested in how his/her situation played out too.
Author theline Posted May 28, 2008 Author Posted May 28, 2008 so wait a minute if you are in an open marriage, and you are both bisexual then why in the world are you hiding this from him!?!? I really don't have a good answer for that. That's why I started this thread, I guess. I feel really secretive about it and I don't know why. This isn't normally how I am. Feeling like this is uncharted territory for me.
Chrome Barracuda Posted May 28, 2008 Posted May 28, 2008 Once you start being dishones with him and hiding things that's when things go downhill. Why not just be honest with him, what's the problem with you?
Tomcat33 Posted May 28, 2008 Posted May 28, 2008 I think you're getting me mixed up with Tomcat33, although I'm interested in how his/her situation played out too. No no he KNOWS who I am. and I am a she. I can tell you how it turned out it was like trying to stop a speeding train with a feather, I had to abandon the project against my EVERY wish and I was resentful towards him because I really wanted to work with him and get our project off the ground but I had to part company and cut it all off since I was not going to his OW and he was incapable of "just working with me having feelings for me" and being in the EA was enough. Then we seperated for about 4 months and he moved out we picked up the project and also started our rel. you can read all about the rest in my back posts. but I am not married so that is the difference here, I didn't have to think about what to do with my other rel.
Tomcat33 Posted May 28, 2008 Posted May 28, 2008 I really don't have a good answer for that. That's why I started this thread, I guess. I feel really secretive about it and I don't know why. This isn't normally how I am. Feeling like this is uncharted territory for me. But isn't the whole point of an open marriage to avoid this kind of stuff? I don't get it!?!
Author theline Posted May 28, 2008 Author Posted May 28, 2008 But isn't the whole point of an open marriage to avoid this kind of stuff? I don't get it!?! Yeah, it is. I don't get it either.
Tomcat33 Posted May 28, 2008 Posted May 28, 2008 Yeah, it is. I don't get it either. Well and open marriage MY understanding is supposed to leave you open to explore other people sexually, but what are your rules in terms of emotional involvement? And how do you propose NOT to get emotionally attached to someone you are having sex with? how have you dealt with this in the past?
angie2443 Posted May 28, 2008 Posted May 28, 2008 What I was referring to was IC. They would have a vested interested in you then, correct? And so since a party may have a vested interest in one then the other though I would not assume that blood would necc indicate one party over the other, you should not share your troubles with them then? Makes for a very lonely world doesn't it? And it does leave you lacking a support group if the worst case scenerio happens and you lose your significant other. Does your philosophy extend to children as well? That the spouse should be put over them as well? I don't think you're understanding my posts. I don't know if this is because I'm not communicating well, or you're not thinking about what I'm writing. In any case, I don't think either of us will get anything out of this conversation, so I'm making this my last post to you. What I will say about IC, is, even here where the counselor is just dealing with you, they are supposed to keep a professional distance. Developing deep feelings for a client can actually destroy the help that the counseling is supposed to provide. I have many friends. I talk to them about many things such as hobbies, politics, kids, etc. I'm not lonely, except for when I'm having "one of those days" and when I'm having one of those days, I have other people I tell besides my husband. I also tell my husband. I don't keep things from him. This is the person I'm sharing my life with, why would I. I do have certain things that I only tell a few people. My husband is in this group. I have things that I only want my main confidant to know. These things I tell to my husband, only. If you have things that you want to keep from your spouse, why? Why can't you share with him/her. As for my children (I can't speak for other parents), my relationship to them is differant from the relationship I have with my husband and any other adult. It is very sacrificial. My husband and I are each other's priority when it comes to how the house is to be run, what we will do, etc. At the same time, if either of us, God forbid, had to make a choice to save ourselves or our children, you can bet your life the children would come first.
Author theline Posted May 28, 2008 Author Posted May 28, 2008 Well and open marriage MY understanding is supposed to leave you open to explore other people sexually, but what are your rules in terms of emotional involvement? And how do you propose NOT to get emotionally attached to someone you are having sex with? how have you dealt with this in the past? It's never been an issue before. Neither of us have ever had anything but casual flings, and neither of us got emotionally attached in the process. We've discussed the possibility of emotional involvement before and it's pretty much been like "we'll communicate and cross that bridge when we come to it." That seems like a mistake, looking back on it. But we made those decisions when we were communicating better than we are now, and now that process looks really scary to me. I don't know where our open relationship is right now; it's all built on this bedrock of communication that is shakier than it's ever been. I don't want to mess anything up any more. It's all wrong. That answers the question as to why I'm not talking to him about this, I guess. It's like opening Pandora's box. I don't think that I'm all that emotionally involved with the OM, but maybe I'm in deep denial. I don't even know.
Untouchable_Fire Posted May 28, 2008 Posted May 28, 2008 I really don't have a good answer for that. That's why I started this thread, I guess. I feel really secretive about it and I don't know why. This isn't normally how I am. Feeling like this is uncharted territory for me. Bottom line is that you can't share this with your husband because you feel something is wrong about it! More than likely you feel it's wrong because unlike other situations this one directly threatens your marriage!
angie2443 Posted May 28, 2008 Posted May 28, 2008 so wait a minute if you are in an open marriage, and you are both bisexual then why in the world are you hiding this from him!?!? Emotions are a powerful thing. The fact that this is bieng hidden in an open relationship sais volumes about how the relationship really is.
Author theline Posted May 28, 2008 Author Posted May 28, 2008 Emotions are a powerful thing. The fact that this is bieng hidden in an open relationship sais volumes about how the relationship really is. Which relationship are you referring to?
angie2443 Posted May 28, 2008 Posted May 28, 2008 I agree with Order and Chaos that the way some of y'all are describing relationships sounds really unnatural and unhealthy to me. If I go and confide in my mom or seek her advice about my marriage, am I having an emotional affair with my mom? Really? That's ridiculous to me. To me, we are separate individuals who choose to build a life together. Ever hear of emotional incest? Actually, I don't know what your relationship is with your mom, so I can't comment on that. I will ask, what things can you confide in your mom that you can't confide in your husband? Unless your excluding your spouse from whatever it is you're confiding in your mom, I don't see the harm in also confiding in your mother.
angie2443 Posted May 28, 2008 Posted May 28, 2008 You're right...many, many marriages don't follow this "golden rule". Makes it a little more clearer to me how we have a 50% infidelity rate...once you understand how affairs tend to start. Here's the thing...intimate communication (sharing secrets/feelings/etc...) with an opposite sex friend (or same sex, if you're homosexual...doesn't matter) is what VERY VERY OFTEN leads to intimate relationships! This is the very basic building block of emotional affairs. EA's start with 'close friendships' very, very often. They talk about friendly things, but with no barriers in their communication that prevents it from escalating into more and more intimate communication. The discussions lead into sharing of secrets, of intimate feelings and details...and this very often leads into an increased attraction for the other person. If the marital communication lags in any way, the 'friendship' begins to be more and more attractive...to the point where its more attractive than the marriage is. This is "affairs 101". As far as sharing with therapists goes...two thoughts. One...how many stories have you heard of relationships starting up with someone's therapist?!?! Enough to make that point. Two, choosing a therapist who is outside of your normal "attraction" type is the smartest thing you can do. Get a same sex therapist, or one clearly outside of the age range you'd even consider as a mate. It reduces that risk considerably. Does this make any more sense to you now? I tried to say this, but not as well.
Tomcat33 Posted May 28, 2008 Posted May 28, 2008 It's never been an issue before. Neither of us have ever had anything but casual flings, and neither of us got emotionally attached in the process. We've discussed the possibility of emotional involvement before and it's pretty much been like "we'll communicate and cross that bridge when we come to it." That seems like a mistake, looking back on it. But we made those decisions when we were communicating better than we are now, and now that process looks really scary to me. I don't know where our open relationship is right now; it's all built on this bedrock of communication that is shakier than it's ever been. I don't want to mess anything up any more. It's all wrong. That answers the question as to why I'm not talking to him about this, I guess. It's like opening Pandora's box. I don't think that I'm all that emotionally involved with the OM, but maybe I'm in deep denial. I don't even know. Very interesting what you have just put forth, VERY interesting. Just goes to show that my theory that love is NOT supposed to love a lifetime that being commited to just one person for the timespan of one lifetime is just TOO much to ask of us humans, and while we need companionsip and to mate to procreate is is physically and emotionally IMPOSSIBLE to stay with one person and live one person your whole life. Your post also makes me see that "open" marriages don't really work either, because though for the man the sexual variety is enough to keep him interested for the long haul in one "commited" relationship it takes away the incentive to want to devote fair amounts of communication and emotional dedication when you are getting fulfilled sexually elsewhere. But for a woman it leaves her succeptible to falling emotionally engnaged with someone else, ESPECIALLY when she is being emotionally disregarded at home. (I am not saying that is your case TheLine but a general assesment of WHY open marriage seems like a poor idea all around) But then regular marriage is bad too in the long run so what's the point? I think being with someone LOOOOONG term is man made, it's not natural. I can't say I have an answer to your quandary other than what you are coming to conclusions on your own given what you type out but as others said if it feels like you are doing something you should not then you are more involved than you care to take note of. I remember my feelings of "wrongness" it was overpowering and at the same time it felt so good to be falling in love with the man infront of me but it felt so bad at the same time, it was unlike anything I had experienced before.
angie2443 Posted May 28, 2008 Posted May 28, 2008 Owl, YES, but that is not what angie said. She said turning to ANYONE. I did not indicate opposite sex but actually was referring to same sex or family. And then if opposite sex is wrong, what is you have a gay friend of the opposite sex? Then since they will not be sexually attracted to you then is it okay? Again, I am actually not talking about affairs but arguing angie's point about any sharing of confidence with anyone else outside of your marriage partner. I do not believe that is realistic or healthy belief for one's self or a marriage. I think "bouncing" ideas off of others actually makes someone understand themselves better. You did not understand my post. Read Owl's post. I think he explains things more clearly than I.
Owl Posted May 28, 2008 Posted May 28, 2008 Theline- So let me ask you this...you've read my post, and see where what's gone on between you and your friend can clearly lead to an EA...which is what your original question centered around. You've clearly been on the edge of (if not already into) an EA with this guy...you've witheld critical information about your feelings and your communications with OM from your H. You now know the dangers of where you're at... The question now becomes...what are you going to do about it?
twice_shy Posted May 28, 2008 Posted May 28, 2008 For tax and insurance purposes? Well that being the case, you chose the "open marriage" route. Neither of you has the right to complain if you go outside your marriage. And I don't want to hear any BS about rules either.
twice_shy Posted May 28, 2008 Posted May 28, 2008 why don't you send your children to a Catholic school instead of public or vice versa if you are doing that? Everyone has children and eveyone agrees to bring up children the best way possible but your child's upbringing may differ drastically from your neighbour's. Because what you are talking about is an apples to oranges comparison and has nothing to do with the topic at hand. "Marriage is the same, it does not "mean" the same thing to everyone but it SHOULD mean the exact same thing to BOTH parties involved in said marriage. How many different interpretations of "forsaking all others" is there. "forsaking all others....unless you really really wanna screw them"??
Tomcat33 Posted May 28, 2008 Posted May 28, 2008 Because what you are talking about is an apples to oranges comparison and has nothing to do with the topic at hand. How many different interpretations of "forsaking all others" is there. "forsaking all others....unless you really really wanna screw them"?? Well you missed the point then because the example was basically that marriage, much like child bearing is performed globally and technically it is to be done in the same manner. But that is not the case each household or each set of parents has their own style or way of figuring out what is BEST for their children and how to bring up their kids ultimately making the ACT of child bearing different than the IDEA of it. And it's the same with marriage, each couple knows BEST what they need for their marriage to be. "Forsaking" others, be it sexually or however you want to look at it is something that is implemented by religion. In some marriages religion does not play a part and the boundaries of "forsaking" are different from marriage to marriage dependant on what their beliefs are. In a case of an open marriage forsaking other may mean emotionally not sexually, it seems that was the agreement in this case.
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