tanbark813 Posted June 4, 2008 Posted June 4, 2008 Do you enjoy being degraded? Do you leave your mascline propaganda at the bedroom door? I am just curious if what is good for the goose, is good for the gander. Cum on the face isn't degrading. If it's my cum it's an honor.
ahah2322 Posted June 4, 2008 Posted June 4, 2008 yes, tanbark! anytime i'm sure i speak for most on LS. cheers.
tanbark813 Posted June 4, 2008 Posted June 4, 2008 yes, tanbark! anytime i'm sure i speak for most on LS. cheers. You flatter me.
JerseyShortie Posted June 4, 2008 Posted June 4, 2008 Cum on the face isn't degrading. If it's my cum it's an honor. That didn't answer my question. Nice avoidance.
tanbark813 Posted June 4, 2008 Posted June 4, 2008 That didn't answer my question. Nice avoidance. Thanks. I didn't answer because your question is retarded. Since I don't think cumming on a girl's face is degrading her, your question is irrelevent. Plus, I don't feel like wasting my time on your vacuous, one-sided, misandrist rambling about how evil men are.
JerseyShortie Posted June 4, 2008 Posted June 4, 2008 I never said men where evil. I hardly hate men. That doesn't mean men don't do things that are sometimes very hurtful and selfish. If men can't discuss these thigns then nothing will ever get resolved.
dpr Posted June 4, 2008 Posted June 4, 2008 Because even if they aren't making their partners feel bad about it in real life, they clearly think their partner is below them. That's ridiculous. By that logic, a man who dresses up like a cop and "arrests" his wife who is dressed as a naughty schoolgirl would actually like to become a cop in real life, so that he can arrest schoolgirls? Do couples who use whips and chains truly want to hurt each other in real life? It's a sexual act that some couples enjoy, period. Some women may like taking facials because it makes them feel dirty/kinky, or just because they like to see their man really turned on. Some men may like it because it makes them feel dominant, or they may like it because they know it turns their woman on, who knows? I also know a lot of men who aren't turned on by it at all. But in any case, I'm sure any sane, rational person would agree that one's sexual fantasies/fetishes do not encapsulate them as a person. A lot of women have rape fantasies, but that does not mean they want to actually be raped. Just because someone fantasizes about holding power over their partner, it does not mean they lack respect for their partner as a person. I personally think that a lot of women who enjoy being "submissive" during sex are ones who are in control of their lives, maybe even in powerful positions. You have to already have power to want to let it go, that type of thing. My dominatrix friend has told me that most of her clients are high-class businessmen. Who knows why people enjoy being submissive or enjoy being dominant? But sex is ALL ABOUT submission and domination, whether you want it to be or not. Then you are one of the rare men that don't. Lots of men use porn as a guide. Hence the reason men what to do the things they see in porn and hold it up to this fantasy ideal. I have been with a few men that so very obviously learned their moves pathically from porn. Oh come on! I am one of the rare men who don't mimic what I see in porn? No one mimics what they see in porn! As I said, if they did then the world would be full of mustached men who don't know how to give girls head and **** them like they were holding a jackhammer! Maybe high school guys, or a boy who has just recently started having sex would be so blown away by the idea of trying things he's seen in porn, but not sexually experienced men. I mean sure, there are some couples who enjoy watching porn to get them "in the mood," but I'd say the majority of porn consumers are young, male, ugly and single. Another reminder that men don't really value women. Wow, nice HUGE generalization there. I love my girlfriend whether you believe it or not. We are both good people and treat each other with respect. Excuse us for wanting to have fun in bed instead of ****ing each other like a couple of puritans. Maybe you don't think much of men because you've never given any a chance. Or maybe you just meet rich womanizers in gino clubs and expect them to be sensitive to a woman's needs. There are many shallow, insecure and disrespectful men out there, just like there are many materialistic, golddigging bitches out there. The good thing is that they usually all hang out in the same places. There are good people out there, you just have to look.
dpr Posted June 4, 2008 Posted June 4, 2008 I never said men where evil. I hardly hate men. That doesn't mean men don't do things that are sometimes very hurtful and selfish. If men can't discuss these thigns then nothing will ever get resolved. That's true. I also read a study somewhere that concluded that no woman, ever, on the face of the earth, has ever done something hurtful or selfish. Come on, men! Get your **** together! Be perfect, like women!
tanbark813 Posted June 4, 2008 Posted June 4, 2008 If men can't discuss these thigns then nothing will ever get resolved. Men can discuss things. You can't. You make a bunch of false assumptions right off the bat and then ask questions based on those false assumptions. Then when people try to correct you or give you their feedback you disagree and disregard everything they say. Discussing things with you is akin to discussing things with a little girl with her fingers in her years yelling "LA LA LA LA LA LA..." Try listening to people sometime and see if that helps your discussions.
Author Taramere Posted June 4, 2008 Author Posted June 4, 2008 I can feel my inner rescuer kicking into action here.... If men can't discuss these things then nothing will ever get resolved. I think men do discuss these things, but I think it's quite often done in a manner which women might find unnecessarily aggressive. Your feelings about certain sexual acts being degrading sound as though they're tied up with general anxiety about how you think men really view women. You've expressed that anxiety a number of times on the board, and you've related it to porn. From what I can understand, you feel that it's caused by porn. Who knows for sure? Maybe you have a general anxiety that's triggered or increased by porn and by discussions like this where things become heated or aggressive. If you already have an anxious belief that facials are a hostile act, and men react with hostility against you for saying that then that probably worsens the anxiety. And if men pick up on that anxiety it could create further anger...because anxiety can seem like a very rejecting and/or accusatory message. "I don't trust you. I don't think you like me. I think you're likely to harm me either physically or emotionally." So they might react in an angry, aggressive or rejecting way that increases the anxiety and the various beliefs that stem from it. How does a pattern like that get broken, and who takes responsibility for breaking it? Is it the woman's role to recognise and attempt to address her anxiety and prevent it from spilling over into hostility? The man's role to check himself for unnecessarily aggressive responses (which may also contain elements of anxiety)? A bit of both?
tanbark813 Posted June 4, 2008 Posted June 4, 2008 How does a pattern like that get broken, and who takes responsibility for breaking it? Is it the woman's role to recognise and attempt to address her anxiety and prevent it from spilling over into hostility? The man's role to check himself for unnecessarily aggressive responses (which may also contain elements of anxiety)? A bit of both? People react less aggressively when your ("your" in general, not you, Taramere) discussions don't start out with false, blatantly offensive generalizations about those people you're addressing. If I start a discussion with black people by saying: "Black men are hard-wired to steal from you and smoke crack. How can we change this?" I'm not going to get a very kind response. Furthermore, the question is pointless because the initial statement on which it's based is false and offensive. JS's discussions are structured similarly.
Author Taramere Posted June 4, 2008 Author Posted June 4, 2008 People react less aggressively when your ("your" in general, not you, Taramere) discussions don't start out with false, blatantly offensive generalizations about those people you're addressing. Yes, they do. Of course. I know how I can get in some of the "most women are blah blah" threads. Some of the time I'll try to behave myself like a calm adult, and other times I'll just think "oh f*ck it...let's just have a fight."
tanbark813 Posted June 4, 2008 Posted June 4, 2008 Some of the time I'll try to behave myself like a calm adult Well where's the fun in that?
JerseyShortie Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 But sex is ALL ABOUT submission and domination, whether you want it to be or not. Sometimes sex is about submission and domination. Sometimes it’s two people on the same level communicating how they feel about each other. No one mimics what they see in porn! As I said, if they did then the world would be full of mustached men who don't know how to give girls head and **** them like they were holding a jackhammer! Have you slept with other men? I have and I have been with grown 35 year old men that mimicked what they saw in porn. That's true. I also read a study somewhere that concluded that no woman, ever, on the face of the earth, has ever done something hurtful or selfish. Come on, men! Get your **** together! Be perfect, like women I never said women were perfect or don't do ****ty things. The fact that I mention that men sometimes do things that hurt and are selfish, has nothing to do with women. Why can't men ever discuss one side of it without bringing out "women do it too!" I think men do discuss these things, but I think it's quite often done in a manner which women might find unnecessarily aggressive. Your feelings about certain sexual acts being degrading sound as though they're tied up with general anxiety about how you think men really view women. You've expressed that anxiety a number of times on the board, and you've related it to porn. From what I can understand, you feel that it's caused by porn. Who knows for sure? Maybe you have a general anxiety that's triggered or increased by porn and by discussions like this where things become heated or aggressive. If you already have an anxious belief that facials are a hostile act, and men react with hostility against you for saying that then that probably worsens the anxiety. And if men pick up on that anxiety it could create further anger...because anxiety can seem like a very rejecting and/or accusatory message. "I don't trust you. I don't think you like me. I think you're likely to harm me either physically or emotionally." So they might react in an angry, aggressive or rejecting way that increases the anxiety and the various beliefs that stem from it. How does a pattern like that get broken, and who takes responsibility for breaking it? Is it the woman's role to recognise and attempt to address her anxiety and prevent it from spilling over into hostility? The man's role to check himself for unnecessarily aggressive responses (which may also contain elements of anxiety)? A bit of both? Well, that is a very intelligent well thought out post that has alot of truth in it. I do have alot of anxiety about how men really feel about women, and I do have a hard time having trust in men. It's very difficult with all the messages you get, even from men themselves sometimes. They don't exactly always show alot of respect for women. They more easily talk about someone with a hot "ass" then someone with a hot "personality". And then men get upset that you have the audacity to question how they feel about women? It doesn't make sense to me. They turn around and actually get angry for you believing what they show you. I don't understand why men turn it around and say I am the one disrespecting men when I take into account how porn depicts women (something men really enjoy), how you can find men talking about women, even other men call themselves "pigs" and laugh about it. It's so frustrating because it's like they just want to live up to their weaknesses instead of being a good man. I really wish I could let go of some of my opinions and have more faith in men but most men don't exactly make it easy with what they show you is true. It's like men don't want you to follow their actions but what they *say* is true. People react less aggressively when your ("your" in general, not you, Taramere) discussions don't start out with false, blatantly offensive generalizations about those people you're addressing. My comments are offensive yet men are the ones calling women whores, judging them for their boobs and age and wanting to cum on their face and sometimes even wanting to degrade them. Okay, whatever! How does that make sense? I'm the being offensive but all those other things men like to do aren't offensive or degrading at all? I'm the offensive one but men liking to watch Cheerleader Cock Globbers 50000 isn't offensive? And women should just understand that men really do *respect* women. Tell me how they are suppose to know that when all the things men promote and like seem to be about boobs, ass, how young/old a woman is and other sexual aspects that can be pretty demeaning.
tanbark813 Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 My comments are offensive yet men are the ones calling women whores, judging them for their boobs and age and wanting to cum on their face and sometimes even wanting to degrade them. Okay, whatever! How does that make sense? I'm the being offensive but all those other things men like to do aren't offensive or degrading at all? I'm the offensive one but men liking to watch Cheerleader Cock Globbers 50000 isn't offensive? And women should just understand that men really do *respect* women. Tell me how they are suppose to know that when all the things men promote and like seem to be about boobs, ass, how young/old a woman is and other sexual aspects that can be pretty demeaning. And of course ALL men do this because ALL men are exactly the same, right?
Author Taramere Posted June 6, 2008 Author Posted June 6, 2008 I do have alot of anxiety about how men really feel about women, and I do have a hard time having trust in men. It's very difficult with all the messages you get, even from men themselves sometimes. They don't exactly always show alot of respect for women. They more easily talk about someone with a hot "ass" then someone with a hot "personality". And then men get upset that you have the audacity to question how they feel about women? I see that following the recent site problems I'm now credited with starting this whole thread! You have that conflict about wanting to trust men, but not feeling you really can. Trust versus mistrust is supposed to be the first inner conflict people experience, and one that's experienced by men and women alike. Regarding the "hot ass" talk. Two things: Saying someone has a nice personality is complimentary, but not necessarily indicative of lust. So if a man wants to indicate that he's attracted to a woman, the easiest way of doing it is to use fairly blunt sexual terminology. He might well like her personality too, but the point he's making is that he wants her sexually. Secondly, peer pressure. A youngish guy is in all male company is under pressure to fit in. The easiest way for them all to mesh together and get along is to conform to a certain stereotype of how men are supposed to behave when they're together. Talking in less than respectful terms about women is often part of that. It might seem a tad weak to do it in order to conform to the group, but however much people boast of their independent characters most people do very much want to fit in. Need to fit in. I don't like hearing men referring to women as whores and sluts either. Not outside the bedroom. I think it's demeaning too, but I also think life can be very difficult - is made very difficult for men who don't fit in. Men who will stand up for the female perspective in a setting where the grouptalk veers towards the misogynistic (ironic misogyny or otherwise). And I can understand why so many take the easy option of either staying quiet or joining in with the kind of talk that is generally quite offensive towards women.
dpr Posted June 7, 2008 Posted June 7, 2008 Sometimes sex is about submission and domination. Sometimes it’s two people on the same level communicating how they feel about each other. Sex ALWAYS involves submission and domination, even on the most basic level. The man is the one with the dick. He "****s" while the woman "gets ****ed." I'm not trying to be vulgar or suggest that you have to start liking whips/chains/facials/anal sex/etc. Just that you can never remove submission and domination from sex. Have you slept with other men? I have and I have been with grown 35 year old men that mimicked what they saw in porn. Since you asked, yes I have slept with other men. No one I know, man or woman has ever tried to mimic what they saw in porn, well not to my knowledge. I guess if they did, I wouldn't have known it because I would never have thought to ask "Did you see that in porn or did you just make it up right now?" If it feels good, then who cares where you got it from? I wouldn't be any more offended than if my girlfriend wanted to roleplay a scene from some romance novel she read. Like who really cares? In any case, I don't know many people who are regular porn viewers. It has its comedic value, but if you've seen one porn, you've kind of seen them all. Maybe the guy you slept with was obsessed with porn or something. You can be obsessed with porn just like you can be obsessed with shopping or video games. Does that mean all men in the world are as into porn as the man you slept with? Of course not. I was robbed by a white guy once, but I don't hate all white people because of it, or assume that every white guy is now going to try to rob me. I never said women were perfect or don't do ****ty things. The fact that I mention that men sometimes do things that hurt and are selfish, has nothing to do with women. Why can't men ever discuss one side of it without bringing out "women do it too!" The reason I trotted out the "women do it too" argument is that you keep implying that men are the problem. That we don't need a boy/girl revolution, just a boy revolution. And then both genders will understand each other completely and the world can live in harmony. You keep saying **** like "Men always..." and "If men would just..." and "Why don't men..." as if you've met every man in the world and know exactly what he thinks and feels about women. Some of us feel the exact same way as you do about the way women are treated in society. Even those of us who cum on our girlfriends. I really wish I could let go of some of my opinions and have more faith in men but most men don't exactly make it easy with what they show you is true. It's like men don't want you to follow their actions but what they *say* is true. The more you say "most men," the more I just think that the men in your life are complete *******s. Just because the men you've met are pigs, doesn't mean we all are. As for your and TM's comments about men lusting after women and what not. Well yeah, I sometimes find women attractive. And I even sometimes am sexually turned on by certain body parts of women. I am "visual," as they say, and a lot of my male friends seem to be as well, even the fags. What I would never do is call a woman a whore or a slut because I think that is awful. It makes me wonder what these guys think of their mothers or sisters. They obviously have no respect for women and think they are superior to them or something. And I guess some guys may do this to fit in or whatever, but I have called guys out on this before. I actually said to a guy once, "It makes me feel like you think my girlfriend and mom is a bitch," to which he replied, "I'm not talking about your girlfriend, I'm talking about this dumb bitch I banged." And he wasn't calling her a bitch because she did something mean to him, he just referred to her as "bitch" as if that's what you're supposed to refer to ANY girl as. And that makes me mad. I honestly don't think a lot of guys would stand for this **** anymore, and I think the whole "fitting in" aspect applies more to kids (high school and what not) then to grown adults. But yeah I think it's ridiculous and so do most of my friends who are male. Guys call girls bitches if they don't get to have sex with them and then call them sluts when they do get to have sex with them. It's not only offensive, it's illogical. If you really want to blame somebody for women being portrayed as walking ****toys, why men? Why not Beyonce or Madonna or Christina Aguilera or any of the other half-naked women men see on TV everyday? Not to suggest men aren't responsible for their own actions, just curious why you seem to lay the blame squarely on men and no one else.
dpr Posted June 7, 2008 Posted June 7, 2008 Degrading to the dead person of course. But also could be degrading to the person whom shot his load. Pretty sad to have shot it onto a dead person. That is pretty hilarious, but not as hilarious as your screen name and avatar. Jesus christ.
dpr Posted June 7, 2008 Posted June 7, 2008 A girl I slept with wanted to sit on my face, the fact she her oral region stank and I just wasn't down with it, so I shoved her off the bed and gathered my things and left. I managed to get changed in my car and drove off. I've never heard from her again. I'm not into facials really, if a girl I'm having sex with wants one and demands one, then she shall receive what she desires, but that's as far it goes with me. Thanks for weighing on this issue man, that was 17 seconds of reading I'll never get back.
burning 4 revenge Posted June 7, 2008 Posted June 7, 2008 I leave or a few weeks and mayhem ensues I never stop to think about how much you guys need me
Jersey Shortie Posted June 7, 2008 Posted June 7, 2008 So if a man wants to indicate that he's attracted to a woman, the easiest way of doing it is to use fairly blunt sexual terminology. I already understand why they say it. However, it is an indication, that there is some amount of disrespect there from men to women when they make such comments. Talking in less than respectful terms about women is often part of that. It might seem a tad weak to do it in order to conform to the group, but however much people boast of their independent characters most people do very much want to fit in. Need to fit in. Funny thing is that women don't sit around saying disrespectful things about men to conform to a group. If more men actually talked about women with some respect, maybe other guys would follow suit. Instead of us just throwing up are arms and saying : "oh well, men are going to call women sluts because their guys. And because their guys, it's okay if they do. They just want to fit in with other men." I mean, that is crap and that is exactly the kind of man that most women don't want. Not outside the bedroom. I think it's demeaning too, but I also think life can be very difficult - is made very difficult for men who don't fit in. Wow, so men demean women so they can fit in. They fit in make friends, and women are disrespected a little more. That sounds so very promising. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Sex ALWAYS involves submission and domination, even on the most basic level. The man is the one with the dick. He "****s" while the woman "gets ****ed." Well, that is your opinions. Just because I am the one being penertrated, doesn't mean that I am being dominated. There are times when having sex is about dom/sub and that's fine. But it's not always. Since you asked, yes I have slept with other men. No one I know, man or woman has ever tried to mimic what they saw in porn... I've been with men that have. In any case, I don't know many people who are regular porn viewers Well, I often think men downplay their porn usage. When I have heard guys in the past say they don't watch porn regularly, I later found out that they watched it anything from a few times a week, once a week to once a month. Maybe the guy you slept with was obsessed with porn or something. Some of us feel the exact same way as you do about the way women are treated in society. Even those of us who cum on our girlfriends. How does that make sense? You want women to have respect but you want to still degrade your own girlfriend? I don't think men really even want to respect women. Just because the men you've met are pigs, doesn't mean we all are. What makes a man not a "pig"?...(I don't like that word but since you used it). Does looking at porn of 18 year olds girls while his wife or his daughter are sleeping down the hall make a man "not a pig"? Does a man that doens't mind seeing women called sluts and whores and being cummed on by some strange guy in a movie make a man "not a pig"? Does a husband out with his wife thinking about the college coed naked that just wanted into the store, does that make a man "not a pig"? I am curious what you think makes a man Not a "pig"? Because from my female perspective, all those examples seem like things alot of men do and they are rather sucky if you really think about it. As for your and TM's comments about men lusting after women and what not. Well yeah, I sometimes find women attractive. And I even sometimes am sexually turned on by certain body parts of women. I am "visual," as they say, and a lot of my male friends seem to be as well, even the fags. Look i understand men are attracted to women and that's great. My point is though that men show very little self control when it comes to these things. Men excuse it based on "being men". And then men turn around and get mad when you have the nerve to think men do hurtful things and don't use much self control. What I would never do is call a woman a whore or a slut because I think that is awful. But it's okay to do it in porn right? Because I don't think I ever seen a porn movie that didn't say something like Housewives Sluts ..or whatever. If you really want to blame somebody for women being portrayed as walking ****toys, why men? Why not Beyonce or Madonna or Christina Aguilera or any of the other half-naked women men see on TV everyday? Not to suggest men aren't responsible for their own actions, just curious why you seem to lay the blame squarely on men and no one else. Women play their part and I never said they didn't. But just because there are half naked women on tv, doesn't mean a man doesn't have choices in looking and oggling or moving on with his life out of respect to his partner.
dpr Posted June 7, 2008 Posted June 7, 2008 What makes a man not a "pig"?...(I don't like that word but since you used it). Does looking at porn of 18 year olds girls while his wife or his daughter are sleeping down the hall make a man "not a pig"? Does a man that doens't mind seeing women called sluts and whores and being cummed on by some strange guy in a movie make a man "not a pig"? Does a husband out with his wife thinking about the college coed naked that just wanted into the store, does that make a man "not a pig"? I am curious what you think makes a man Not a "pig"? Because from my female perspective, all those examples seem like things alot of men do and they are rather sucky if you really think about it. I give up. You're a moron. Apparently some guy you know is obsessed with porn so that means all men are evil. Good luck to you life. This forum sucks, by the way. I love being lectured on why I am like other men even though I don't think I am, and how my girlfriend and I only THINK we are having good, fun, harmless sex, but really we're not, and about how I should follow every single sentence I type in this thread with "but that's just my opinion."
Jersey Shortie Posted June 7, 2008 Posted June 7, 2008 There is nothing moronic about what you qouted me as saying. There seems to be a huge disconnect and a big of hypocriticalness in what men say is true and what is true through their actions. I seriously asked you what makes a man a "pig". I'm sorry you don't have an answer for that.
2sunny Posted June 7, 2008 Posted June 7, 2008 if you are a person with an open mind and an active imagination then exchanges and scenarios during sex and/or foreplay can be totally hot if both parties understand a level of trust. new and playful situations keep things spiced up and very exciting. why does one thing or another have to be considered degrading or "off limits" if it's a desire? even if you don't want to ACTIVELY do it - you can still get your partner turned on by just talking about it during sex to make it fun for them.
Author Taramere Posted June 7, 2008 Author Posted June 7, 2008 If more men actually talked about women with some respect, maybe other guys would follow suit. Instead of us just throwing up are arms and saying : "oh well, men are going to call women sluts because their guys. And because their guys, it's okay if they do. They just want to fit in with other men." I mean, that is crap and that is exactly the kind of man that most women don't want. Most if not all of us sometimes behave in ways that put us into that category of what the opposite sex doesn't want. It's just a question of degree. Wow, so men demean women so they can fit in. They fit in make friends, and women are disrespected a little more. That sounds so very promising. Some men do seem to deride femininity altogether - extending that attitude towards deriding women on account of their femininity. If they're determined to hook up with women regardless of their animosity towards them, they probably do best with "one of the guys" type women who are similarly averse to girliness.
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