melodymatters Posted April 4, 2008 Posted April 4, 2008 Well, I certainly agree with you there, but it seems this relationship has valid reasons why she/he might not be feeling loved enough, this very minute, that perhaps can be overcome with a bit of time and effort. After all, he is a male, and actions speak louder than words, so the fact that he wants her to move back in, to me, does not show a lack of love or committment. Of course we all are scattered around the world and have no idea what really goes on, so..........
shadowplay Posted April 4, 2008 Posted April 4, 2008 (edited) The more I think about it, the more I'm inclined to agree with TBF. I don't think you should put your dignity and needs in jeopardy to win him over. You can win him over (I believe), but it's probably not worth it. Especially because another power struggle is likely in the future given his alcohol problems and the dynamics of your relationship. You've said before that you're in no rush to settle down, so there's no need to settle for someone. You also seem like someone who is able to move on pretty easily once you've decided to do so. Edited April 4, 2008 by shadowplay
Trialbyfire Posted April 4, 2008 Posted April 4, 2008 Ah, but what level of love and commitment does Kamille need? How far down her non-negotiable scale does she have to go, to keep a relationship alive? This could go on forever, if one partner is ambivalent. Piss or get off the pot.
blackbird Posted April 4, 2008 Posted April 4, 2008 Your bf's attitude sucks, IMO. Good that he's being honest about his assessment of his feelings towards you. Good that he's trying to take positive steps towards rebuilding your relationship. But the whole "I'm not AS in love" concept is immature, like it's something where you either feel a certain way or you don't. There's something so fatalistic and childish about such a statement. He can take steps to rebuild intimacy, but it's just empty gesturing until he realizes that, with a partner who is willing to work with you, you get more love the more you put into it. What does "not AS in love" mean anyway? That's so vague. Less intimacy? Less trust? Less excitement? Less of the initial infatuation phase?
shadowplay Posted April 4, 2008 Posted April 4, 2008 (edited) Your bf's attitude sucks, IMO. Good that he's being honest about his assessment of his feelings towards you. Good that he's trying to take positive steps towards rebuilding your relationship. But the whole "I'm not AS in love" concept is immature, like it's something where you either feel a certain way or you don't. There's something so fatalistic and childish about such a statement. He can take steps to rebuild intimacy, but it's just empty gesturing until he realizes that, with a partner who is willing to work with you, you get more love the more you put into it. What does "not AS in love" mean anyway? That's so vague. Less intimacy? Less trust? Less excitement? Less of the initial infatuation phase? I agree completely. He's making the choice not to feel that love. Love doesn't just happen; it's a choice. He's had enough time for his ego to recover. He's asking Kamille to move to him, both figuratively and literally. He isn't putting in enough effort to move closer to her. I would never move in with a man who said he wasn't as in love with me because I left him (and then forgave him) for being an alcoholic. That plain sucks. Edited April 4, 2008 by shadowplay
datingmum Posted April 4, 2008 Posted April 4, 2008 We don't know. Men do show their love by actions, and these actions are far louder than words. Moving back in together is a pretty huge thing for a man, so personally, I feel that he is saying, in not so many words, that he loves her. As for 'feeling love', this condition occurs only if the partner involved is not wrapped up in a membrane of fear that prevents absorption of love. Kamille has described wonderful and happy and fun moments with her ex throughout this process and I believe that perhaps the simple (yes, probably childish - but who will cast the first stone?) semantics are tripping her up. Inevitable in the limbo between breakup and back together. I only wish her a wonderful evening. She's a strong girl and I think that she instinctively knows that this is the right path. Besides, who knows HOW he said he wasn't "AS in love". Could be a smile, a sexy smirk, could he haved grabbed her a few seconds later and tried to maul her? We just don't know...
soulseeker Posted April 4, 2008 Posted April 4, 2008 Who knows the real reason why he wants her to move in. I cannot agree that his inviting her to move in with him means he loves her. I am speaking from personal experience, of course, but a many men would live with a woman without the best intentions. I dont think moving in is a big deal for many men, actually.
Saxis Posted April 4, 2008 Posted April 4, 2008 I agree completely. He's making the choice not to feel that love. Love doesn't just happen; it's a choice. He's had enough time for his ego to recover. He's asking Kamille to move to him, both figuratively and literally. He isn't putting in enough effort to move closer to her. I would never move in with a man who said he wasn't as in love with me because I left him (and then forgave him) for being an alcoholic. That plain sucks. Err... that doesn't make a bit of sense. Who's to judge whether he's had enough time to recover besides himself? He's entitled to his own feelings. Of course the break-up is going to cause some damage. It's pretty much a statement that she wasn't accepting a part of him. He's supposed to accept her doubts, but she can't accept his? That's a pretty big blow to the ego. I don't know about anyone else, but it takes me a while to rebuild that trust, but it seems he's willing. I wouldn't recommend a move-in either, though. With any doubt at all, that will place pressure on the relationship, which brings us back to forcing it. That borders on insecurity, will probably lead to vicious cycle and eventually resentment. I think the best thing that can be done is give each other space and figure out what each wants from this.
carhill Posted April 4, 2008 Posted April 4, 2008 I dont think moving in is a big deal for many men, actually. I was going to say the same thing, but I'm a man Seriously, physically cohabiting isn't a big deal to most men I know. They just do their own thing and leave the trail behind them It was/is a big deal to me, so therefore I noticed the difference between myself and my male friends. I didn't live with my wife until we got married. I wanted to wait to redecorate as long as possible OP, look to other actions for the "in love" part. All those small affectations each day; especially how he looks into your eyes. You can tell, you know
datingmum Posted April 4, 2008 Posted April 4, 2008 I understand all of your sentiments, but Kamille's situation, if digested from the beginning is one in which SHE rejected him due to issues she felt were untenable in the relationship. He IS loving and VERY kind to her and she is also in love with him. He is not the sort of man that would 'move her in' willy nilly. Not that I think she SHOULD move in, mind. I think she should simply say "I'd love to live with you again, but we need to make sure we do share a similar love." (though I am personally now engaged in a 'no moving in until we're married' offensive). In reference to an earlier poster, i agree that she voiced doubts in her love for him, he has embraced that, now she must embrace his doubts. If I am understanding that correctly?
TheFonz Posted April 4, 2008 Posted April 4, 2008 I still don't understand what his doubts are. You can't negotiate your way into loving someone. This guy is just making you chase his validation. I hate when I give away secrets of the trade like that.
xpaperxcutx Posted April 5, 2008 Posted April 5, 2008 Kamille, I sincerely advise you not to move in with him. The whole point of cohabitation is to share a deeper understanding, trust, and love between the two persons involved, but it is currently obvious that your bf is asking you to move in for all the wrong reasons. He said that he isn't as in love with you as he was before, so in what way does that validate a reason for you to move in with him? Is he trying to play a upperhand in this relationship? Does moving in with him involve you relinquishing your independence? It seems that he feels he's out of choices in how to deal with certain things therefore he saw a need to extend an invitation for you to move in to keep you around. He's really insecure about himself ( a result of the breakup) and feels that he can't trust you. He's afraid that you might walk out again.
Advocate's Devilette Posted April 5, 2008 Posted April 5, 2008 My advice: don't sleep with him tonight. Don't give it up for him. He might just have said those things out of horniness.
Advocate's Devilette Posted April 5, 2008 Posted April 5, 2008 How long do you hang on melodymatters? Relationships don't trump non-negotiables, unless you're willing to allow it to fester and build into resentment. Ambivalence destroys relationships in the long-term. Sometimes the baby isn't worth the effort, if it won't stop crying. Yeah but you can't just dump a baby, you can dump a guy.
Storyrider Posted April 5, 2008 Posted April 5, 2008 Maybe he has backed off emotionally because he won't allow himself be the underdog in the relationship, and he wants to put the uncertainty back on you. I think you should give things another couple of weeks and see how they play out. Oh, and Billy Idol, not Bowie, did "Dancing with Myself."
datingmum Posted April 5, 2008 Posted April 5, 2008 Maybe he has backed off emotionally because he won't allow himself be the underdog in the relationship, and he wants to put the uncertainty back on you. I think you should give things another couple of weeks and see how they play out. I second this motion.
Trialbyfire Posted April 5, 2008 Posted April 5, 2008 He IS loving and VERY kind to her and she is also in love with him. This is called...settling... No one wants to be treated like a puppy. Her non-negotiable isn't asking too much. It's the base premise for relationships. If he's unable to give more, it will guaranteed, create future resentments. "He doesn't love me enough." I'm like Kamille, in that I EXPECT that I will be the priority in a relationship. If I don't get it, I'm gone. Having said that, I prioritize the other person, at the top of my "to do" list. I do agree that she needs to see how it plays out in the next couple of weeks. If Kamille is satisfied by his level of love and commitment to her, then she'll remain in the relationship. If he can't man up, she'll be gone.
Advocate's Devilette Posted April 5, 2008 Posted April 5, 2008 Hey Camille, how'd it go? I hope you didn't sleep with him, he didn't earn it yet!
Author Kamille Posted April 5, 2008 Author Posted April 5, 2008 (edited) I skidded through the thread but thank you all for your advice. Anyways, we got a chance to really talk and I told him what I said here, only applying it to him too. "I think we both deserve to be in a relationship where there is no doubts that we are loved and in love (whether with each other or someone else), and I do trust you to make the right decision". I was sitting and he dropped to his knees next to me and said "thank you. You know there's nothing I want more then for us to work out". Then he asked me if I had thought about moving in and I said that I was extremely hesitant to do so. He asked me why and I said, well, because of your doubts. He said that he understood. He told me he loved me, a couple of times, out of the blue. (When I was ranting about something and then we were dancing together). It all felt very right, very serene. The subject didn't come up the rest of the night, but I did end up spending the night there and yes, sleeping with him (I had doubts about it before, but then it just felt right). Anyways, this morning we spoke about the move and us (alcool and cigarettes) again. I was brainstorming alternative solutions to having to know by May how we felt about it all) and he said "Kamille, so many of my doubts have lifted in the last 24hours. You're amazing. I love you." I answered : "Take your time ok? Let's take our time". So all in all, I feel really good. I am not saying things have fallen into place, but at least we're in a good place right now. Edited April 5, 2008 by Kamille
carhill Posted April 5, 2008 Posted April 5, 2008 I know you all are a lot smarter than me about such things, but doesn't it make sense that having sex with him during this time is going to cloud your judgement? You already know you have chemistry with him; that's not in question. It's the other, practical stuff. I've been the sounding board (for women) who are involved with men like this. They are very charming and cool. It's their way. It's a rollercoaster. I hope it works out for you
TheFonz Posted April 5, 2008 Posted April 5, 2008 That's cool Kamille. I noticed his doubts suddenly disappeared after you told him you were hesitant to move in with him because of his doubts .
Author Kamille Posted April 5, 2008 Author Posted April 5, 2008 I know you all are a lot smarter than me about such things, but doesn't it make sense that having sex with him during this time is going to cloud your judgement? You already know you have chemistry with him; that's not in question. It's the other, practical stuff. I've been the sounding board (for women) who are involved with men like this. They are very charming and cool. It's their way. It's a rollercoaster. I hope it works out for you Maybe. I don't feel my judgement was very cloudy. I also don't feel like we have come to a decision yet. And it would have felt weirder and even 'gamy' to not go with my desires. I think not sleeping with him would have clouded my judgement, if that makes sense. And nothing about last night or today felt like a rollercoaster. I think we're just on better grounds to make tough decisions about the future. I got off my "this needs to work" mode and I think he felt relieved that we were reaching a common ground where the final decision was going to be all up to him.
Author Kamille Posted April 5, 2008 Author Posted April 5, 2008 That's cool Kamille. I noticed his doubts suddenly disappeared after you told him you were hesitant to move in with him because of his doubts . Yeah. Look at that. I don't assume his doubts are all gone, but I think, like I was telling Carhill, that he felt like we had finally reached a common ground, where it would be easier to make the right decision.
Ssheena Posted April 5, 2008 Posted April 5, 2008 Whew. Sounds like you approached it calmly and with your thoughts in order and it worked out wonderfully. Good on you! Maybe he will really miss you while you are on vacation....
carhill Posted April 5, 2008 Posted April 5, 2008 Yeah. Look at that. I don't assume his doubts are all gone, but I think, like I was telling Carhill, that he felt like we had finally reached a common ground, where it would be easier to make the right decision. You know, I just learned something from your experience and reply. I'm finding the exact opposite to be true in my marriage right now and I think I know why. When I have a more cogent thought process put together, I'll present it. Leave it to LS to bring me more clarity every day. Thanks
Recommended Posts