Kamille Posted April 4, 2008 Posted April 4, 2008 Recap: BF broke up a month ago and about a week later decided to try and work things out. I still feel very much in love with him, but he lately revealed that he doesn't feel as in love as he used to, or as in love as I am. Anyways, this has all been discussed in my last thread. BF dropped by this afternoon, out of the blue. It was fun, but the whole things feels odd at times. I brought up the topic saying I had faith that we cared about each other enough to make the right decisions, whether it meant we chose to stay together or break up for good. He said he's been torturing himself about this the last few weeks and felt like one of the solutions would be for me to move back in. !!!. !!!. He said he would stop smoking inside that appartment. I asked him why he wanted me to move back in and he said it would help him alleviate his fears about us moving to Other city only to have everything fall apart. "Ok. But hmmm, honey, you're not even sure you're in love with me" which he corrected and said "I'm not as in love as I used to". I said let me think about the move thing. I don't know, right now I feel like my patience is wearing thin. I feel like telling him "Listen, you love me or you don't - you're in love with me or you're not. Make up your mind but just to let you know, I deserve love dammit. None of this wishy washy bs."
sweetbutcheeky Posted April 4, 2008 Posted April 4, 2008 I don't know, right now I feel like my patience is wearing thin. I feel like telling him "Listen, you love me or you don't - you're in love with me or you're not. Make up your mind but just to let you know, I deserve love dammit. None of this wishy washy bs." I think you answered your own thread. You should say just that.
Lizzie60 Posted April 4, 2008 Posted April 4, 2008 I agree with the previous poster, you answered your own question. Take your time.. you don't want to get hurt again.. tell him that you need him to stop smoking first.. and what about moving to a brand new 'non smoker' place.. if you ever move back with him. Just take your time..
Trialbyfire Posted April 4, 2008 Posted April 4, 2008 Whoah Nellie, how I can empathize with this thread! No one can make someone feel a certain way about them. Yes, we all deserve love but if someone doesn't love us as much as we need them to, it's no use in trying to make them love you. It must be a natural extension of voluntary feelings and actions. Having said that, moving in with him is a band-aid solution. Do NOT do this, if he's unable to provide you with what you need. It doesn't make him a bad guy for his feelings of ambivalence, just as it doesn't make you a bad woman for wanting more than he can give. It just IS. No settling though!
Saxis Posted April 4, 2008 Posted April 4, 2008 Whoah Nellie, how I can empathize with this thread! No one can make someone feel a certain way about them. Yes, we all deserve love but if someone doesn't love us as much as we need them to, it's no use in trying to make them love you. It must be a natural extension of voluntary feelings and actions. Having said that, moving in with him is a band-aid solution. Do NOT do this, if he's unable to provide you with what you need. It doesn't make him a bad guy for his feelings of ambivalence, just as it doesn't make you a bad woman for wanting more than he can give. It just IS. No settling though! That was hot! I love it when you talk sensibly.
carhill Posted April 4, 2008 Posted April 4, 2008 Good on ya Kamille for recognizing and validating what you need. Now, let his actions demonstrate that to you. Talk is cheap.
Trialbyfire Posted April 4, 2008 Posted April 4, 2008 That was hot! I love it when you talk sensibly. Haha...take two aspirin and call your doctor in the morning.
Author Kamille Posted April 4, 2008 Author Posted April 4, 2008 This is great, as I was reading your replies David Bowie's Dancing with myself came on my itune list. I feel just very serene and empowered at the same time. It always feel good to realize you deserve love. We have a date tonight and I am pulling out the big guns. My favorite dress. I am getting ready and having a good time. I feel stronger now that it is clear to me that I know where I stand.
Star Gazer Posted April 4, 2008 Posted April 4, 2008 Having said that, moving in with him is a band-aid solution. Do NOT do this, if he's unable to provide you with what you need NOW. It doesn't make him a bad guy for his feelings of ambivalence, just as it doesn't make you a bad woman for wanting more than he can give. It just IS. No settling though! I added the one thing, but otherwise I agree 1000000%
shadowplay Posted April 4, 2008 Posted April 4, 2008 (edited) I disagree with TBF that you can't change someone's feelings toward you. That is true to a degree, but you have more influence than you think do -- especially given the right person and circumstances. Some people are very stubborn and nothing can change their mind once they've made it up, or even break them out of ambivalence which is also a willful state to dwell in. Not all people are like this, though. You'll know when you no longer have control and it's time to give up the reigns. You haven't gotten there. He is scared of getting reattached, and scrutinizing your every move for evidence that he can trust you. His feelings won't return overnight, but I believe they will over time. How you act now is crucial. Ask yourself how much short-term discomfort you can tolerate and how much self control you have. You have two options before you. 1) Don't bring up relationship stuff anymore, at all. Never. No talks. Nothing. Unless he brings it up. Carry on as normal. Act like your usual happy, confident self. Don't reveal insecurity. I wouldn't move in either for now. Give it some more time. Tell him you'll move in when you feel ready. Pros: I guarantee you this will be the most effective approach to winning him back, because acting insecure puts pressure on him. It also makes you look more desperate. Trust that his feelings will return in time (they will), but only if you relieve pressure. Cons: This approach will be the hardest to withstand, at least in the short term because you'll need to grin and bare it. Ask yourself if you can do that. Here's what will happen. You'll act this way for a bit without initial results and be tempted to give up or ask for more reassurance. You'll have to fight the urge and carry on until you do see results (there's a delay). Then when he's acting more affectionate, you'll start to get comfortable again and the temptation to ask for reassurance will return. You must resist it. Ask yourself if you can do all this. If you can't, the second approach is better. 2) Give him an ultimatum and say that you're not willing to put up with any more uncertainty. He must make up his mind. Pros: You won't have to tolerate the discomfort of uncertainty, or putting on a smile when you're broiling inside. Sometimes it is just easier to give up control. It will make you feel better about yourself, even if you end up losing him. Cons: You are much more likely to lose him. People don't like to be pressured into making decisions. There's a possibility it would work, but I'd say it's 50/50. Given that your boyfriend seems to have a lot of pride, I think he is less likely to respond to this approach. He won't be pressured into a decision. He likes to be in control. I know people will call my advice manipulative, but it's a matter of what works and what doesn't. What you're willing to put up with and what you're not. Based on my observations of human nature, that is what works. It may come down to a choice between your sense of self worth and holding on to him. Edited April 4, 2008 by shadowplay
Trialbyfire Posted April 4, 2008 Posted April 4, 2008 shadowplay, I don't subscribe to the school of manipulation for romantic relationships. It's up to the individuals to state what they need and barter non-negotiables. If you barter away negotiables, you're setting yourself up for relationship failure, further down the road. Settling gets you nowhere for the long-term.
shadowplay Posted April 4, 2008 Posted April 4, 2008 shadowplay, I don't subscribe to the school of manipulation for romantic relationships. It's up to the individuals to state what they need and barter non-negotiables. If you barter away negotiables, you're setting yourself up for relationship failure, further down the road. Settling gets you nowhere for the long-term. As I said, she'll feel better about herself if she gives him an ultimatum, but she may end up losing him the process. It's up to Kamille to decide what is more important to her.
Trialbyfire Posted April 4, 2008 Posted April 4, 2008 As I said, she'll feel better about herself if she gives him an ultimatum, but she may end up losing him the process. It's up to Kamille to decide what is more important to her. Where's the ultimatum?
shadowplay Posted April 4, 2008 Posted April 4, 2008 Where's the ultimatum? Telling her bf that he needs to make a decision (the implication being that she will leave if he doesn't).
carhill Posted April 4, 2008 Posted April 4, 2008 Settling gets you nowhere for the long-term. So true, IME. All it got me was angina...
soulseeker Posted April 4, 2008 Posted April 4, 2008 Whoah Nellie, how I can empathize with this thread! No one can make someone feel a certain way about them. Yes, we all deserve love but if someone doesn't love us as much as we need them to, it's no use in trying to make them love you. It must be a natural extension of voluntary feelings and actions. Having said that, moving in with him is a band-aid solution. Do NOT do this, if he's unable to provide you with what you need. It doesn't make him a bad guy for his feelings of ambivalence, just as it doesn't make you a bad woman for wanting more than he can give. It just IS. No settling though! Agreed. At this point, I'm not sure exactly where you stand on classifying him as an addict. You've said that you believe you are strong enough to love someone with an addiction. Ok, but why put all that extra effort into someone who has told you point blank that his feelings have lessened? I could maybe see it if your love was 100% mutual. I dont get that part, Kamille. You seem like such a great person.
shadowplay Posted April 4, 2008 Posted April 4, 2008 Another option would be for her to set a mental deadline. She could decide to end things in a two weeks or a month (however long she feels is worth it) if he hasn't come to a decision.
Trialbyfire Posted April 4, 2008 Posted April 4, 2008 Telling her bf that he needs to make a decision (the implication being that she will leave if he doesn't). I'd like to see you find that reference, in my advice. I don't see it anywhere.
shadowplay Posted April 4, 2008 Posted April 4, 2008 Agreed. At this point, I'm not sure exactly where you stand on classifying him as an addict. You've said that you believe you are strong enough to love someone with an addiction. Ok, but why put all that extra effort into someone who has told you point blank that his feelings have lessened? I could maybe see it if your love was 100% mutual. I dont get that part, Kamille. You seem like such a great person. I suspect Kamille may have fallen prey to the old wanting what you can't have syndrome. Meanwhile he is taking for granted what he does have. The power dynamic in their relationship has shifted. Kamille was able to end things before when she was certain of his feelings for her. Now that he's less certain, she wants back in. It is important for her to ask herself how she really feels about him regardless of how he feels about her.
shadowplay Posted April 4, 2008 Posted April 4, 2008 I'd like to see you find that reference, in my advice. I don't see it anywhere. I was referring to my advice since that is what you responded to.
melodymatters Posted April 4, 2008 Posted April 4, 2008 I have come to think that forums are a very easy place for others to advise people to throw the baby out with the bathwater. No relationship is 100% perfect 100% of the time. I think he sounds like a pretty good guy Kamille, and while I wouldn't rush to move in either, the fact that he asked is a good sign. Guys use language differently than we do, but it sounds like he does love you and cares about the relationship. What ULTIMATELY happen : who know ? But he seems worth.....seeing what happens with.
shadowplay Posted April 4, 2008 Posted April 4, 2008 (edited) I suspect Kamille may have fallen prey to the old wanting what you can't have syndrome. Meanwhile he is taking for granted what he does have. The power dynamic in their relationship has shifted. Kamille was able to end things before when she was certain of his feelings for her. Now that he's less certain, she wants back in. It is important for her to ask herself how she really feels about him regardless of how he feels about her. Another thing is whether she wants to stay in a relationship that has a power dynamic at all (because those invariably shift and lead to resentment). I get the sense there was always a subtle fight for power/ego beneath the surface of their relationship. Kamille was mostly in control before the break, and her bf would try to gain the upper hand by flashing his professor card. He felt slighted and insulted when she left him, and now is regaining control by dangling her in limbo. To make a firm decision he will have to give up control and that is scary to him. It sounds like he had the upper hand in his past relationships and he likes it that way, even if means he loses respect for the woman and eventually leaves her. I think Kamille deserves better than someone so hung up on control. But I won't tell her to leave him, because I don't know the guy and these are just my educated guesses based on what she's told me. Edited April 4, 2008 by shadowplay
Trialbyfire Posted April 4, 2008 Posted April 4, 2008 How long do you hang on melodymatters? Relationships don't trump non-negotiables, unless you're willing to allow it to fester and build into resentment. Ambivalence destroys relationships in the long-term. Sometimes the baby isn't worth the effort, if it won't stop crying.
melodymatters Posted April 4, 2008 Posted April 4, 2008 But what's her "non-negoitable" here ? This thread is about wanting to feel loved, and the fact that the break up seemed to set Mr. X back a bit in his feelings. I guess thats what I am referring to at least.
Trialbyfire Posted April 4, 2008 Posted April 4, 2008 Kamille's non-negotiable is that she wants to feel loved. If he can't provide, there's no shame in it. He has a right to his feelings, as she has a right to hers. There's no reason to subjegate or negate anyone's right to need something, in any relationship, friendship included.
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