When to give up

[AnnaSmitcher]

Thanks for all the ensuing helpful advice. I've been reading long enough to know it will follow.

 

My 8 year unmarried relationship is a mess. Things have been crappy for years. We've had one failed attempt at sex in the last two years (alcohol issues on his end, or else I repulse him). About six months ago I started wondering where he was getting his sexual jollies, because it sure wasn't from me. I know I could hardly stand it. I started reading his e-mail and chat history. I opened a can of worms sometimes I wish I hadn't. Seems one night out while clubbing in November he ran in to a girl he used to sleep with in college (15 years ago). She's now living about 30 minutes away. Lewd chats and late night telephone conversations ensued. They talked about meeting for "dinner". I flipped out on him without divulging my sources although I'm sure it was obvious. After a month of misery, she seemed to have gone away. Calls, chats, and e-mails stopped.

 

We have been arguing badly again and I looked at his e-mail again tonight. She's back. She sent him a note asking why he had been so quiet and he replied that it was due to the embarrassment over the GF/e-mail/chat thing. Dinner was still an option, but he would call her in a few days as he was traveling a bit the next few weeks (true, I think).

 

Our biggest point of contention over the last few years has been that he hung on forever in a failed start-up and lost his shirt and went in to massive debt. Then he probably milked me for $50K to cover him for another year of "work", which consisted of an occasional meeting and lots of naps. He's paid me nothing back although in a currently lucrative career. He pays nothing toward household expenses, mortgage, taxes, insurance, yada yada... It is MY house. Point of this diatribe, other than my obvious resentment, is that his credit is ruined and he can't rent a house anywhere. His options are to move in with one of his parents houses ( they don't want him) and renting a place where they don't care about credit (i.e. nowhere). I feel like an ass making him move in to his car. The OW lives with her sister, so I doubt that is an option.

 

I guess I want to know if I have hope of stopping him before he cheats (I'm pretty damn sure it hasn't happened YET). If I try to turn around my admittedly nasty attitude, can I can bring him back? I do love him, but I can't live like this. I'm a paranoid, and in turn nagging mess. Every time he wants to go out with a friend for drinks I am going to wonder what he's really doing. Can I change my attitude, despite what I know, and pretend that things are okay and hope that it turns out that way?

 

And finally, is there any hope of return when there seems like there is nothing left to talk about? We both like to go out to eat, but it always seems that we stare at each other in silence because we have nothing to talk about. It is beyond the "comfortable silence".

 

Am I kidding myself that there is hope? If not, what the hell do I do? I'm scared ****less of being alone. Bad reason, I know, but there are parts of him that I love too. I can't even get my head on straight enough to have an honest conversation with him. I WANT this to work. I keep hoping that if I fake that things are good that they will work out, but it isn't working for me.

 

Do I dare call her and tell her to curl up and die to see if she goes away? I've thought about it, but never had the nerve.

 

I'm sorry if this is non-sensical. I'm not quite myself at the moment.

 

~Anna

Edited April 4, 2008 by AnnaSmitcher

[whichwayisup]

This is your guy and if you want to fight for him, then do it. Call her and tell him who you are and tell her to get lost. He more than likely has filled her head up with some lies about you, also probably told her he loves her..

 

Question is, is he worth fighting for? Is what you've had with him worth saving? Would he be willing to do counselling with you to get things back like they once were? IF he is willing to prove to you that HE can be trustworthy and worth a second shot, then see what happens.

 

You seem like the type of person who needs to give it their best before throwing in the towel. BUT, don't hang onto him because you're afraid of being alone. You have friends and family for support so you won't be alone, keep that in mind.

 

I am sorry for your pain..

[AnnaSmitcher]

I've brought up counseling a few times and he looks at me like I have twelve heads before he walks away. Might do me some good to do it myself, but I find it an intimidating proposition. I am "repressed", or so people tell me.

 

Whether he's worth the drama? Very good question and I don't have the answer. Some days yes, others not so much. I guess I'm "indecisive" too.

 

Thanks for the reply.

[OWoman]

Our biggest point of contention over the last few years has been that he hung on forever in a failed start-up and lost his shirt and went in to massive debt. Then he probably milked me for $50K to cover him for another year of "work", which consisted of an occasional meeting and lots of naps. He's paid me nothing back although in a currently lucrative career. He pays nothing toward household expenses, mortgage, taxes, insurance, yada yada... It is MY house. Point of this diatribe, other than my obvious resentment, is that his credit is ruined and he can't rent a house anywhere. His options are to move in with one of his parents houses ( they don't want him) and renting a place where they don't care about credit (i.e. nowhere). I feel like an ass making him move in to his car.

 

Why don't you drive to your nearest downtown bridge, and pick up another homeless hobo, and offer him a home instead? Perhaps you'll get more in return from him - maybe even some love and affection, some sex, or some quid pro quo. Your current sponger doesn't seem to be offering you very much - if anything; at least, nothing that's loomed large enough for you to list it. Maybe he'll find someone else to sponge off, and perhaps when you tire of being the only one in a relationship contributing towards it, you'll move on to someone who can be more of an equal partner and offer you something in return.

[AnnaSmitcher]

Mom, is that you?

 

I understand how bad it looks. Some days it looks pretty bad to me too. I wonder about my thought process at times. Part of my reluctance to let him go is that I want (at least some) of the money he owes me back. It was clearly given as a loan and I want it back. He's making a heck of a lot more than me now. Maybe if I wait, I'll see something. I worked hard and long for that and I deserve to have it. Problem is, it isn't going to happen as far as I can tell. And thank God, I make enough where I can move on without it. But darn it, I did work hard and long to earn it and I want it back. I deserve it. I put in the work that he didn't bother to. But, there are bigger issues than money. It isn't my be-all and-end all. I just don't care for being taking advantage of. I have been so many times. I guess I'm too generous.

 

I'm so conflicted. Tonight he asked me if I wanted to go to a friend's house with him. I didn't as I'm tired and it's the night before the fantasy baseball draft and that's all of this group of guys will talk about. He was getting on my nerves (possibly because he was breathing and I couldn't get away from him) and I couldn't wait for him to leave and then I was sorry to see him go. I was almost mad that he left, even though I told him to. Impossible to please? Me thinks so.

 

I feel like he only has fun when he is with someone else and that hurts like hell. We've got nothing to talk about and it is painfully obvious. I know that is why he is conversing with this other woman. It is new again, interesting, and very different that our stagnancy.

 

As I look back at what I've written, I am starting to wonder if I'm just impossible to please. The harder I look, and the less I like my attitude, I wonder how much of the bed I'm laying in is from what I've made. I'm angry, resentful, and flat out nasty sometimes. Maybe these are inappropriate actions no matter the situation. I obviously felt that my reactions were appropriate at the time, not so much now. But then there is that whore on the computer and the phone...

 

I'm sorry to ramble and I'm not sure what kind of responses to this post I expect / want. I guess that writing this out helps me see things more clearly and outside insight can't ever hurt.

 

Thanks again.

[annieo]

Mom, is that you?

 

I understand how bad it looks. Some days it looks pretty bad to me too. I wonder about my thought process at times. Part of my reluctance to let him go is that I want (at least some) of the money he owes me back. It was clearly given as a loan and I want it back. He's making a heck of a lot more than me now. Maybe if I wait, I'll see something. I worked hard and long for that and I deserve to have it. Problem is, it isn't going to happen as far as I can tell. And thank God, I make enough where I can move on without it. But darn it, I did work hard and long to earn it and I want it back. I deserve it. I put in the work that he didn't bother to. But, there are bigger issues than money. It isn't my be-all and-end all. I just don't care for being taking advantage of. I have been so many times. I guess I'm too generous.

 

I'm so conflicted. Tonight he asked me if I wanted to go to a friend's house with him. I didn't as I'm tired and it's the night before the fantasy baseball draft and that's all of this group of guys will talk about. He was getting on my nerves (possibly because he was breathing and I couldn't get away from him) and I couldn't wait for him to leave and then I was sorry to see him go. I was almost mad that he left, even though I told him to. Impossible to please? Me thinks so.

 

I feel like he only has fun when he is with someone else and that hurts like hell. We've got nothing to talk about and it is painfully obvious. I know that is why he is conversing with this other woman. It is new again, interesting, and very different that our stagnancy.

 

As I look back at what I've written, I am starting to wonder if I'm just impossible to please. The harder I look, and the less I like my attitude, I wonder how much of the bed I'm laying in is from what I've made. I'm angry, resentful, and flat out nasty sometimes. Maybe these are inappropriate actions no matter the situation. I obviously felt that my reactions were appropriate at the time, not so much now. But then there is that whore on the computer and the phone...

 

I'm sorry to ramble and I'm not sure what kind of responses to this post I expect / want. I guess that writing this out helps me see things more clearly and outside insight can't ever hurt.

 

Thanks again.

 

OH MY GOD !!!!! Why are you blaming yourself?!?! OF COURSE you can't stand being around him - he sounds like an unpleasant, lazy, usurous, selfish (and I could go on with the adjectives) a**hole. No freaking wonder you are angry, resentful and nasty. That's the least he deserves - what he truly deserves is a good boot in the a** out the door.

You would probably be a completely different woman if:

1. You got laid occasionally. 2 years ??? WTF! The fact that you say he is "repulsed" by you is very, very wrong. His words or yours? Anyway, you're feeling like he is, and unless you have developed leprosy or have gained a ton of weight, you shouldn't be.

2. He talked to you, hung out with you. Not all the time, not at the expense of his friendships, but now and then. You said you never communicate.

3. He didn't use you as a wallet/shelter. He has a job, he lives there, he should be AT LEAST helping pay for bills, food.

4. Oh, and very importantly, he didn't start romancing other women while still with you. I think this is a deal breaker for most women...right ladies?

 

Unless there is a large other side to this story that you aren't telling us about, please stop beating yourself up and get him the hell out. And don't be afraid, there are much worse things than being alone. It might just be the making of you:).

[AnnaSmitcher]

#1 - My words, not his. I'm a pretty girl and I haven't let myself go. But my attitude has been pretty ugly lately. Every notice how someone's attitude effects how you think they look?

 

As for a hidden, I don't think so. I'm sure his version of the state of things would read with a different color. I'm not sure I would want to read it. I'm not proud of myself lately. If he read this, he probably wouldn't be so happy either.

 

"And don't be afraid, there are much worse things than being alone. It might just be the making of you:)."

 

God, I love that. I'm going to write it down and stick it in my wallet. Thanks for that.

[Trialbyfire]

1. Is common-law marriage, one recognized in your jurisdiction?
   
2. Was your house, fully paid for, previous to entering into a cohabitation arrangement?
   
3. Was your $50K loan, documented in a legal agreement? Of course this will be negated, if he's declared personal bankruptcy.
   

Protect your assets and drop kick him to the curb. He's about as useful as toast on a stick.

[carhill]

OP, I didn't see a clear reason, so I'll ask:

 

Why are you afraid of being alone?

 

I think working through this issue will bring clarity to many of the issues you face right now.

[AnnaSmitcher]

TBF -

1. No common law marriage here.

2. I own the house outright. He is not on the deed nor has put a dollar in to paying for it. This is incontestable.

3. No paperwork on the 'loan'. My figure comes from my checkbook which lists all of the credit card bills, car payments, boat payments, insurance payments, repossession fees, blah, blah, blah. I paid these things based upon the fact that I would get the money back in due time. I can prove no such thing. I've always been generous to a fault...

 

Carhill:

 

I've been asking myself that question too. I don't drive, so that is a pain, but certainly manageable. I can afford to have myself hauled around. I do fear getting stuck without a ride sometimes, but it hasn't ever happened.

 

I also haven't been single for any measurable period of time since I was a teenager. It's intimidating. I've pushed away most of my friends for several reasons. I'm afraid I'll be lonely, or worse: bored. I'm not sure exactly how I got myself here, but I'm sorry about it. I used to be the most social person around, but I've walked away from it and I don't know why. I know I'm exhausted, but that's a bad reason. Maybe I'd have more energy if I wasn't in such a depressing situation.

[Trialbyfire]

Anna, time to cut your losses before he financially and more importantly emotionally drains you further. Whether he has a place to live, should be meaningless to you. This guy has no respect for you, in that he would carry on in this fashion, with an OW, especially since he's aware you know about it. Do your self-esteem, caring and pride a favour, change all the locks on your doors when he's out one day and put all his personal items in boxes outside your front door. He deserves...nothing...

 

Let the OW take...real...care of him and stop being his doormat. Okay?

[AnnaSmitcher]

Any suggestions on how to have the conversation? I asked him to leave six months ago in the heat of an argument and he just ignored me. I can't say I did anything to enforce it.

 

What about the stuff? I'd like to go hide at my dad's house while he packs and leaves, but I feel like I need to be there to make sure my things don't walk away. I've thought about letting him take his clothes and computer and packing the rest myself, but it is an overwhelming idea. He doesn't have that much, but I'm poorly motivated especially while depressed. I've never had to dump someone where things have been so lengthy and integrated. There hasn't been so much 'our' stuff before. We have a boat (his by title) but a lot of the stuff for it I've bought. I'm not in a position to buy my own, so I don't really need it. Do I give it up? I suppose if I did, I would have bargaining room for other of 'our' stuff. Hashing this out makes me want to curl up and die. Almost enough to make me not want to do it.

 

I think this is a part of where I've beens stuck. I guess I know I need out, but am scared / petrified of actually doing it. I don't suppose there is much that will make something crappy better.

[Trialbyfire]

Give him 30 days notice, like any tenant (unless it's a longer period within your jurisdiction) that's being evicted.

 

You mentioned your father. Beyond your father, do you have any large male friends or relatives, you can rely on to help you through this process?

 

You schedule a locksmith to come in, on a day he's not going to be home. Then, you leave his stuff outside the home, for him to collect at will. You might experience some form of vandalism, which hopefully, your insurance will cover, in combination with a report to the police. Change your phone number and email address, as well, so he hasn't got a way to contact you. If he's aware or has access to bank accounts or any financial information, make certain you change those too.

 

The sooner you get rid of him, the sooner you can move on in your life.

[carhill]

Anna, I know it's hard, but stuff can always be replaced eventually and in the big scheme of things matters little. Your life and sanity are what are important right now.

 

How about a compromise. Today, quietly, start putting together a plan. Think of and write down (or type in a secure file) the details, adding things as you think of them. Set a timeline. Just take one step at a time. If you really need to drive, you can learn how, or, as you said, secure alternative transportation. If you're concerned about stuff, make a list of his and hers stuff. Get quotes on lock changes. Record financial and title information. Etc, Etc.

 

Each day, work a little on your plan. It may take a year, but I think you'll be amazed at the change in you over that time. Direction breeds confidence.

 

A close female friend of mine took nearly 5 years to execute such a plan to take her two children and leave her abusive husband. It was difficult but she did it. Her biggest hurdle to overcome now is the fear of being alone, which I believe is why she moved in with her boyfriend after her kids, now grown, left a couple years ago. I know she's not happy, but she's afraid. Like you, she's been with a man since she was sixteen (she's 46 now). All I can ask you is please try. You only live once

[annieo]

Give him 30 days notice, like any tenant (unless it's a longer period within your jurisdiction) that's being evicted.

 

You mentioned your father. Beyond your father, do you have any large male friends or relatives, you can rely on to help you through this process?

 

You schedule a locksmith to come in, on a day he's not going to be home. Then, you leave his stuff outside the home, for him to collect at will. You might experience some form of vandalism, which hopefully, your insurance will cover, in combination with a report to the police. Change your phone number and email address, as well, so he hasn't got a way to contact you. If he's aware or has access to bank accounts or any financial information, make certain you change those too.

 

The sooner you get rid of him, the sooner you can move on in your life.

 

Good advice ...but is there any chance he is going to get nasty? You might want to have someone you trust there with you. A brother, uncle, father, friend?

I understand how you're feeling, which is frightened. I have been in an ltr (3 of them) since I was 17 until now (42), with only a 6 month period of singledom. It will be an adjustment, but I can't help but think you will be feeling some major euphoria, having the time and space to reconnect with yourself. And for doing right by yourself.

Good luck and get angry, not scared. It will propel you through the battle.

[ICallsEmAsISeesEm]

Anna, I'm going to be blunt.

 

You said the guy is utterly repulsed by you and hasn't touched you sexually in a very, very long time. The ONE time you ALMOST had sex was because he was drunk. It's a pretty sad state of affairs when the only time a man will touch you is when he's taken a leave of his senses. It's sad but moreso, it's downright humiliating and degrading to allow yourself to even be a part of this mess.

 

If this guy hasn't touched you in a couple years, you can be pretty sure he's getting his needs met elsewhere. I think it's a grave misjudgement on your part to assume he hasn't cheated.

 

It sounds to me that the ONLY reason he stays is because he doesn't have a choice to go elsewhere.

 

Do you enjoy being this creep's backup plan because a better deal hasn't come along? I'm not even going to get INTO how he's sponged off you to the tune of $50,000 - you're good enough financially for this parasite to suck you dry, but you're "repulsive" sexually, is that it?

 

What a creepy, using little weasel.

 

These are your choices: continue to let this sponge live off you while treating you like you're Typhoid Mary, or kick his completely WORTHLESS ASS OUT and let HIM worry about where to go. The freakin' LOSER has created his own financial problems - all the while sucking YOU dry. I guess you don't think he's done enough damage to you yet?

 

You don't owe this piece of sh*t anything. It sounds like as soon as he finds a better deal (a/k/a another victim willing to let this worthless parasite suck off her until she's empty) he'll probably leave skidmarks he'll run so fast out the door.

 

Kick the LOSER out.

Edited April 6, 2008 by ICallsEmAsISeesEm

[Trialbyfire]

Good luck and get angry, not scared. It will propel you through the battle.

You bet annieo, get good, friggen' angry, nay get furious with this loser. How dare someone treat you like this! What a user and abuser. Not only kick him to the curb, make him bounce, face first...

[sb129]

Nothing much to add except kick his sorry azz OUT.... he is using you and you deserve better.

[AnnaSmitcher]

Thanks for all the suggestions.

 

There is no chance that he will hurt me physically. He never has and he never would. The torment of living together while waiting for him to pack up and leave is another story. I guess I need to try to remember that it is temporary and that better days will follow.

 

Last night I was reminiscing about how much fun it was to date when I used to do that. I was 21 instead of 31 but I suppose it could still be fun. I wish I had woken up today with the same attitude. I keep thinking about how everyone I know is married with kids. And if I do find the right someone, how frightening it would be to be the one to sell my house and things to combine with him. My neighbor is doing so it has crossed my mind. But, I guess I'm getting pretty far ahead of myself. One day at a time I suppose.

[Trialbyfire]

What you bring into a marriage, always belongs to you...alone. Never forget that.

 

When in a relationship, you don't have to be consumed by the relationship and always give in to someone else's wants and needs, over yours. You have needs too and should always have some autonomy.

[annieo]

Thanks for all the suggestions.

 

There is no chance that he will hurt me physically. He never has and he never would. The torment of living together while waiting for him to pack up and leave is another story. I guess I need to try to remember that it is temporary and that better days will follow.

 

Last night I was reminiscing about how much fun it was to date when I used to do that. I was 21 instead of 31 but I suppose it could still be fun. I wish I had woken up today with the same attitude. I keep thinking about how everyone I know is married with kids. And if I do find the right someone, how frightening it would be to be the one to sell my house and things to combine with him. My neighbor is doing so it has crossed my mind. But, I guess I'm getting pretty far ahead of myself. One day at a time I suppose.

 

Don't get so far ahead of yourself! Be on your own for awhile, get your feet under you. I REALLY understand what you are saying here. You've (like me) always been with someone, so you're already lining up the next possible partner. With all the possible problems. You can cross that bridge when you come to it.

What kind of man choices do you think you'll be making in the foreseeable future? Bad ones, most likely. So don't, stay away for a bit.

If you are financially independent, thank your lucky stars and plan on spending some time with YOU. I'm almost jealous. Freedom, sweet lord a mighty, freedom!