Cobra_X30 Posted April 2, 2008 Posted April 2, 2008 I respect that, and I'm not looking for a quick one nighter. I'm not in a hurry to take things to the physical level. If I was, and she was acting this way then obviously we are clashing and if it couldn't be resolved it would be time to part ways. She is so intent on setting my expectations that perhaps I should set mine with her. Essentially tell her I respect her wishes, but that I do expect this to eventually turn to the physical level and if she doesn't see that occuring to let me know now. Of course, me just bringing up that topic makes it look like I'm just looking for sex. Its a game I can't win. Why do you feel bad for wanting sex? Your a man... you should not be ashamed of that.
Chinook Posted April 2, 2008 Posted April 2, 2008 Why do you feel bad for wanting sex? Your a man... you should not be ashamed of that. You know... that's a pretty good point actually... and it brings to light a whole new idea/angle for me. She's trying to be controlling. Can I change my mind...? Dump her ass. (okay, just kidding... but be aware, it could be a flag right..?) Jees, I'm so glad I decided I'm gonna stay date and drama free for a while.
Author mark1210 Posted April 2, 2008 Author Posted April 2, 2008 (edited) Cobra, I do not feel ashamed for wanting sex, it's perfectly natural between adults IMHO. I'm more of a tradtional dater, It's been about a month and 6 dates..small potatoes overall. I don't have a a calendar I use to mark off and say by this date I will have sex with her. I just let it progress to that level, the situation hasn't came up yet. With her feeling like she needs to constantly bash it into my skull I don't see it happening anytime soon either. But that's fine by me at the present moment. In a week, two weeks, a month i may feel quite different. It's just odd..the entire thing...she is a great woman, I have tons of fun with her and it's not a huge issue...YET. I'm going to have a chit-chat with her tonight and let her know of my expectations for once. If they clash, well better to find out now. I get the feeling I will get the same answer I got a while back..she is just guarding herself because of guys who typically try to get things going too fast. Why should I be penalized for that...live and learn but don't expect everyone to be the same. Edited April 2, 2008 by mark1210 Spelling Correction
DanielMadr Posted April 2, 2008 Posted April 2, 2008 Oh hell yes, I know! But like I said, I'm not convinced she IS that insecure. She's just making sure. 6 dates is hardly anything in the world of relationship terms. The key is the expectation conversation I think. If he can have that rational conversation with her and she's amenable to his thoughts and expectations... he's on to a winner imho. If there's more drama tho, I'd be inclined to hightail it!! What I really think of her is that she is not that insecure too and that she is not in love with him. She is not afraid to lose him. If she was insecure(worried about his intentions) but in love with him she would not test him. At least not in a matter she does know. So after all she is a bitch with mild interest in him and losing her interest more every minute he submits to her BS. Nice. Run OP run. Or be equally evil and wait for the sex first and then run.
Chinook Posted April 2, 2008 Posted April 2, 2008 Well to be honest Mark, I think you bringing it up is the right thing to do... and I don't think it's too fast at all. As you say, people should be afforded their own chances, not everyone is the same.
carhill Posted April 2, 2008 Posted April 2, 2008 OP, how's her non-sexual affection for you? The emotional and physical caretaking? If things are purely a sexual tease, IMO, leave now, as there is no balance. Otherwise, negotiate boundaries. I imagine you would disagree, but she doesn't owe you an orgasm just because you're sexually aroused. That's under your control. Take control Another thought.... my female friends often complain that men cannot be affectionate without becoming aroused and desiring/demanding sexual release, where they value and enjoy the emotional and physical closeness. As a long-time virgin, I was used to it and still enjoy the process of what I call titallation, even now where the complete experience is available as a married person. The important thing is that your expectations (as well as hers) are clear and mutually satisfying. You have to admit, you seem to keep coming back for more
Author mark1210 Posted April 2, 2008 Author Posted April 2, 2008 Thanks Everyone..that helps a great deal. It was bothering the hell out of me so I had to ask. I knew I wasn't doing anything wrong but couldn't figure out her logic. I'll have a pow-wow with her tonight and let you know what happens.
DanielMadr Posted April 2, 2008 Posted April 2, 2008 OP. No talk. No discusions. She will made your head spin even more, believe me. It may sound very reasonable and adult like to explain your stance but SEX cant be NEGOTIATED or DISCUSSED. It was supposed to be spontaneous fullfilling of love between two adults. What do you expect will happen? You: "I like you but I cant be hold responsible for the bad guys that hurt you" She: "Yeah I can see now you are not one of them and yeah you passed the test. Lets have sex now" Probably not. You dont like something.....start to retrive....if she cares, she will start to remodel her policy.
Cobra_X30 Posted April 2, 2008 Posted April 2, 2008 Cobra, I do not feel ashamed for wanting sex, it's perfectly natural between adults IMHO. I'm more of a tradtional dater, It's been about a month and 6 dates..small potatoes overall. I don't have a a calendar I use to mark off and say by this date I will have sex with her. I just let it progress to that level, the situation hasn't came up yet. With her feeling like she needs to constantly bash it into my skull I don't see it happening anytime soon either. But that's fine by me at the present moment. In a week, two weeks, a month i may feel quite different. It's just odd..the entire thing...she is a great woman, I have tons of fun with her and it's not a huge issue...YET. I'm going to have a chit-chat with her tonight and let her know of my expectations for once. If they clash, well better to find out now. I get the feeling I will get the same answer I got a while back..she is just guarding herself because of guys who typically try to get things going too fast. Why should I be penalized for that...live and learn but don't expect everyone to be the same. I think your going to be best served in the long run to push for it. However I respect the fact that your willing to take things slow for her. You just need to make absolutely certain that she respects that as well. Keep in mind that what she wants and what she says she wants may be two different things.
Chinook Posted April 2, 2008 Posted April 2, 2008 Mark, Dan is right to a point, she can't hold you responsible for past hurts and you shouldn't have to pay for others' mistakes. But... imho, he's not right about the no talk thing. Relationships are based on mutual trust and understanding... sex is a touchy subject and if you can talk about it rationally with her, then you may have a way forward. But she has to acknowledge that you also have expectations. I'm gonna need to get me a cold shower, agreeing with Dan twice in one thread...
Jilly Bean Posted April 2, 2008 Posted April 2, 2008 You know Mark, after all the sexual drama she has created, and you being smacked into submission so that you are on eggshells if you *gasp* even utter a sexual inuendo, I wonder how much you would even want to sleep with her after all this. I think if sexual chemistry is there from the get-go, but then it is denied, whether by choice, or circumstance, that the desire wanes. If I were you, I'd be losing interest in her sexually entirely. I'd personally move on and let her and her sexual hang-ups become someone else's problem. What she's doing is making you pay for all the other guys before you that have wronged her and used her. So, she's throwing her baggage right out there, and dropped it on top of you. It makes me wonder that IF you have sex with her eventually, what rules and issues will come after that? Just seems like too much work.
Author mark1210 Posted April 2, 2008 Author Posted April 2, 2008 Jilly, that's crossed my mind also. I make sexual innuendos all the time..that's part of who I am. If she can't handle that then yes....it would be time to have packed and left a long time ago. The sexual jokes don't bother her at all and I've said some pretty crude things. So far, I haven't really felt like I am on eggshells. carhill, The non sexual stuff is fine, we hold hands, snuggle, hug, she puts her head on my lap to watch the tv, etc. I'd say all that is fine. It's just the "no sex" at the beginning of each date is what irks me to no end. Is she trying to convience me or herself. You are right, I do keep coming back for more, probably because of a combination of me enjoying her company and me not really desiring sex at this moment. We've made out numerous times, nothing big has happend on my end. My hands are always at the waist...i'm probably taking that a bit slower than I normally would. I think having the talk is the right way to go, we are adults, communication is key in any relationship.
DanielMadr Posted April 2, 2008 Posted April 2, 2008 Mark, Dan is right to a point, she can't hold you responsible for past hurts and you shouldn't have to pay for others' mistakes. But... imho, he's not right about the no talk thing. Relationships are based on mutual trust and understanding... sex is a touchy subject and if you can talk about it rationally with her, then you may have a way forward. But she has to acknowledge that you also have expectations. I'm gonna need to get me a cold shower, agreeing with Dan twice in one thread... Maybe because Im right? They have no relationship. They are starting to have one. You can discuss sex with your husband of 10 years but I bet it wont be about "to drop his sexual innuendo or not" And You can discuss it between mature healthy adults....she certainly doesnt behave like one. Bottom line: No hands policy from now on. No deep kisses. Once she starts to kiss you, play her The Broken Record. Let the fight begin.
Art_Critic Posted April 2, 2008 Posted April 2, 2008 Mark.. you need to push her boundaries some.. why is she stating this?.. Who knows.. but the reality is that half the time if we didn't push the sexual boundary with women we would never get laid.. We would also be friendzoned much faster.. Most.. and I say most women will friendzone someone who doesn't try and get in their pants.. They all want to be wanted.. The trick will be how good your game is when you push the boundary some and she moves the line but lays down another boundary.. You are going to have to make her feel that you have something to offer that she is missing out on...
DanielMadr Posted April 2, 2008 Posted April 2, 2008 You know Mark, after all the sexual drama she has created, and you being smacked into submission so that you are on eggshells if you *gasp* even utter a sexual inuendo, I wonder how much you would even want to sleep with her after all this. I think if sexual chemistry is there from the get-go, but then it is denied, whether by choice, or circumstance, that the desire wanes. If I were you, I'd be losing interest in her sexually entirely. I'd personally move on and let her and her sexual hang-ups become someone else's problem. What she's doing is making you pay for all the other guys before you that have wronged her and used her. So, she's throwing her baggage right out there, and dropped it on top of you. It makes me wonder that IF you have sex with her eventually, what rules and issues will come after that? Just seems like too much work. Seems to me he wont listen. Probably doesnt have more options or feels like he has to "win" this one. Big mistake.
DanielMadr Posted April 2, 2008 Posted April 2, 2008 Mark.. you need to push her boundaries some.. Rape???? You are going to have to make her feel that you have something to offer that she is missing out on... Thats more like it. Yeah walk away. She will start to missing out things probably.
Art_Critic Posted April 2, 2008 Posted April 2, 2008 Rape???? How is pushing someones boundary rape ?.. I didn't say to rip off her clothes and force her to have sex with him...
Gunsmith Posted April 2, 2008 Posted April 2, 2008 Mark, I've run across this before. Although every situation is unique, I believe that she's more trying to convince herself than you. In my case, the woman kept repeating, "I don't do this. I'm not a fat chic," then pounced. I'm not sure what the correlation was in her mind between weight and sexual appetite, but I guess there was something there. She was a single parent as well. Another time, a woman told me flat out that if we had sex, then it would probably be over. Well, she kept teasing - it was obvious she wanted it - and I don't play games, so I gave it to her. She was good. After that night she began getting paranoid, and it ended about a month after that night. Both women had been abused as children. They both saw sex as both very pleasurable and something to be ashamed of. Looking back, they both were in heavy need of counseling. My thoughts are this: She wants it, but doesn't want it at the same time. You give it to her, you're screwed. You don't, and you're screwed as well (blue balls and all.) I can guarantee there's stuff she's not telling you, and will not tell you if you're together for 50 years. Then again, she may want you to "take it." That doesn't appeal to me either, and to me, no means exactly that, NO. But women communicate differently than guys. While some will tell you that if you like what you see, then take what you want, others will communicate like this. I don't know, but I think the safe assumption is that she doesn't know, either. She's divided, and if you cannot get anything from your talk with her, then you really need to walk.
DanielMadr Posted April 2, 2008 Posted April 2, 2008 How is pushing someones boundary rape ?.. I didn't say to rip off her clothes and force her to have sex with him... And what it would be then? One button in a time? Im not saying you sugest rape. Im just saying that you cant push(boundaries) when you should do the pull.
Cobra_X30 Posted April 2, 2008 Posted April 2, 2008 And what it would be then? One button in a time? Im not saying you sugest rape. Im just saying that you cant push(boundaries) when you should do the pull. Whats that supposed to mean? Are you suggesting he pull her buttons off instead of pushing them? Point is that Art is correct. He needs to go for what he wants, whatever that may be. Otherwise chances are he is going to come across as a weenie, or she might think he is gay. Non-assertive usually feels a lot like weak/no confidence to women.
carhill Posted April 2, 2008 Posted April 2, 2008 carhill, The non sexual stuff is fine, we hold hands, snuggle, hug, she puts her head on my lap to watch the tv, etc. I'd say all that is fine. It's just the "no sex" at the beginning of each date is what irks me to no end. Is she trying to convience me or herself. You are right, I do keep coming back for more, probably because of a combination of me enjoying her company and me not really desiring sex at this moment. We've made out numerous times, nothing big has happend on my end. My hands are always at the waist...i'm probably taking that a bit slower than I normally would. I know I'm in the minority here (normal for me ) but here's a perfect example of the disconnect between what a woman says and what she does. So, enjoin her emotions with affection and praise for her attention to you and tell her (don't ask) what you want. "I want to be xxx with you. It's important to me now". Don't listen to what she says Watch her actions. Go with that. Based on the totality of what you've said, even slow-ass me would be ready for some action. I see the balance. Time to move forward. If it does work out, no harm in re-visiting a bit of titillation now and again, except you make her wait, oh, maybe 2 or 3 orgasms
DanielMadr Posted April 2, 2008 Posted April 2, 2008 Whats that supposed to mean? Are you suggesting he pull her buttons off instead of pushing them? Point is that Art is correct. He needs to go for what he wants, whatever that may be. Otherwise chances are he is going to come across as a weenie, or she might think he is gay. Non-assertive usually feels a lot like weak/no confidence to women. No he might start to behave he doesnt give a shyt if she gives him it or not. Do fun of her attempts to make his balls blue. Kiss and touch her less and make himself more scarce (like he is not there all the time). Turn the tables on her a bit. Tease her in a fun way and remind her that she should try harder to give him a hard on. Its the only way. I wouldnt go that way myself. She has written TROUBLE all over her.
DanielMadr Posted April 2, 2008 Posted April 2, 2008 I know I'm in the minority here (normal for me ) but here's a perfect example of the disconnect between what a woman says and what she does. So, enjoin her emotions with affection and praise for her attention to you and tell her (don't ask) what you want. "I want to be xxx with you. It's important to me now". Don't listen to what she says Watch her actions. Go with that. Based on the totality of what you've said, even slow-ass me would be ready for some action. I see the balance. Time to move forward. If it does work out, no harm in re-visiting a bit of titillation now and again, except you make her wait, oh, maybe 2 or 3 orgasms It is standing her by the wall. Giving ultimatum. And emotional blackmail. He cant start behaving like immature girl now. Simply because he is not. She is one immature little girl. Reverse psychology might help. "I dont want to eat spinach" ----- him: "I wont give you spinach never ever, dont even think about it, I hate spinach myself"
Cobra_X30 Posted April 2, 2008 Posted April 2, 2008 No he might start to behave he doesnt give a shyt if she gives him it or not. Do fun of her attempts to make his balls blue. Kiss and touch her less and make himself more scarce (like he is not there all the time). Turn the tables on her a bit. Tease her in a fun way and remind her that she should try harder to give him a hard on. Its the only way. I wouldnt go that way myself. She has written TROUBLE all over her. I rarely advise guys to be passive aggressive. If she doesn't have a lot of emotional attachment... it will be pretty easy for her to just take that as disinterest and drop him. I think, Art, Carhill, and I are all on the same page here. He should go for gold!
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