Krytie TV Posted April 1, 2008 Posted April 1, 2008 Men who will come over to your house cuz you are sick or had a short trip to the ER Men who no matter how busy/tired he is, will go to your house and see you because you had a horrible day and you requested a dinner date with him THAT NIGHT (not when is convenient for him) Men who will miss the game to have a date with you Men who notice its been a week since he last saw you and cant wait to see you Men who will go out of their way to be with you Men with whom you dont have to wonder where they stand with you. They are clear about their feelings and are glad to let you know Unfortunately, these are many of the qualities that many men, whether right or wrong, have learned are bad habits to get into with women. These ideas are in conflict with what we have come to learn are necessary behaviors to keep women interested. Men who demonstrate these qualities consistently become labeled as predictable, boring, dependent by women who will then trot off to seek a more "mysterious man" that does not do these things. I have no doubt I will be told I'm wrong, but I believe the truth is there to some degree if you're willing to accept it.
NuTuDating Posted April 1, 2008 Posted April 1, 2008 Sounds like the OP is describing the "doormat" guy. You know, the guys all the women here say they're not attracted to. Geez...
NeanderthalSSoldier Posted April 1, 2008 Posted April 1, 2008 In my personal experience, most of the guys I have dated have all started out the way you describe. What I cannot figure out is what makes them change and become so comfortable so as to stop putting forth any effort whatsoever. This is a complex answer but it begins with the woman not putting forth the required effort and attention to keep him satiated. Most men stray or pull the attention away because the attraction has waned to the point of not being. We're attention wh0res. All of us. Men, women, cats and dogs. We crave the affinity from other people, especially those who purport to love us. Some men cease to give his flavor the necessary attention because he hasn't matured enough himself and doesn't know how to do it. Some men love variety and the rush of someone new. I happen to like honey nut cheerios every day. But one day I'll want Booberry, so I'll go out and get some Booberry.
Cov Posted April 1, 2008 Posted April 1, 2008 Sounds like the OP is describing the "doormat" guy. You know, the guys all the women here say they're not attracted to. Geez... I think most human beings are indecisive and as nice as the OP's post is it is rather utopian and selfish. I'll list the main example; Men who no matter how busy/tired he is, will go to your house and see you because you had a horrible day and you requested a dinner date with him THAT NIGHT (not when is convenient for him) - The part highlighted in bold is a complete double standard, the OP want's a man to come running to her house (why her house when there's a whole world to explore, I don't know). That's not my point the point is that she wants things done on her terms, the very same trait she condemns. What's happened to compromise is it a dirty word all of a sudden? My other pet peeve is why does it always have to be the man who does this, why don't women meet men half way, that's the way to a successful relationship. Think of a couple as a team, teams work equates to success in any particular field. I feel there's people who expect a lot and put very little into the relationship themselves, it's called selfishness and it's off putting, really off putting. These men do exist, but most of these people end up being picked up and dropped at the drop of a hat, it's good to make someone else's life better, aslong as it doesn't cost you your happiness, independence and freedoms.
KidEternity Posted April 1, 2008 Posted April 1, 2008 You know this is really confusing... I'd say I would probably do all those things, but I'm far from a "Nice Guy". If I loved the girl, and she wasn't manipulating, hell yeah I'd be there, who wouldn't want to spend time with your girl. But I think there is a thin line between doing those things because you want to, and doing those things because you feel you have to/feel obliged/will do anything for your partner. I think that is the difference between cool guy and nice guy...
NuTuDating Posted April 1, 2008 Posted April 1, 2008 Right, but this is a perfect example of a woman who says she wants one thing but hooked up with something else.
Nuguy12 Posted April 1, 2008 Posted April 1, 2008 In my personal experience, most of the guys I have dated have all started out the way you describe. What I cannot figure out is what makes them change and become so comfortable so as to stop putting forth any effort whatsoever. They stop putting forth any effort because their interest level is falling fast and they are not as motivated to please you as they once were.
Cov Posted April 1, 2008 Posted April 1, 2008 They stop putting forth any effort because their interest level is falling fast and they are not as motivated to please you as they once were. That's what happens it, its up to both people in the relationship to try and combat the routine and bring freshness to the relationship. It's no good one person working on it and the other saying "its not my problem". If you want a successful life you have to work hard at everything which encompasses your life. The problem too many people are individualistic in relationship's and down right lazy.
NuTuDating Posted April 1, 2008 Posted April 1, 2008 That's what happens it, its up to both people in the relationship to try and combat the routine and bring freshness to the relationship. It's no good one person working on it and the other saying "its not my problem". If you want a successful life you have to work hard at everything which encompasses your life. The problem too many people are individualistic in relationship's and down right lazy. Yep, and women get lazy/comfortable, too, and then wonder why the guy doesn't send flowers anymore.
Nuguy12 Posted April 1, 2008 Posted April 1, 2008 , so that these loving gestures are a two-way flow of intimacy, and not just a subservient relationship. The "laundry list" in the OP is unrealistic, and longing for it is to want a "subservient relationship " indeed.
Ocean-Blue Posted April 1, 2008 Posted April 1, 2008 These guys are called Nice Guys, millions of them, basically they are inferiority ridden guys who dont have a clue what are women about and they think they are like their mommy. And you probably pissed them so much with your post. Im sure you dont know any of them. You date only the smart ones, who dont care about you that much and probably even know that you start to think of them more, when they dont show up every time you would like. You have just proven it right now. Please try to find some gentleman who really likes you and stop bitching around about some walking dildo that has no simple human decency like visit dieing girlfriend. :lmao:
Ocean-Blue Posted April 1, 2008 Posted April 1, 2008 Yes, there are caring, loving men out there. I think generally your list is possible, but I do want to point out a couple of things I see that could be interpreted in different ways... This sounds a little bit controlling. If I call and request, you need to be here no matter how busy or tired you are. I understand this desire, but I want to know that a woman I'm with, no matter how bad a day she's had, will still show some empathy for how my day has been when she demands I drop everything to care for her. Empathy and caring go both ways. If we both have a sh*tty day, do you just assume that it's the man who needs to drop everything and serve you, or do you meet in the middle somewhere, and care for each other? Or poker night or a day out with the boys, or whatever else. Not completely unreasonable on its face, unless you mean a man who will miss every game, or any game you pick on short notice? I believe it's healthy, in a relationship, to have some amount of independence, including independent interests, and when one plans such time, I think it reasonable for a partner to support and understand that. It sounds like you are looking for gestures from him, that tell you that you are the highest priority in his life, but I also get a sense that you want to be assured that you can call for proof at any moment - during "the game," or when he is tired or busy at the end of a day. Prove my importance, by giving up things that are important to you - your game, your comfort, your schedule, sleep, etc. It sounds like you seek these gestures to reassure you that nothing will ever come before you at any moment. I might suggest that if you are confident in your relationship, you wouldn't be shaken by him needing "alone time," planning to watch a game with the guys, or not being able to serve a particular need of yours at a moment's notice. Now, lest you think I'm harping on you too much, I admit that I may be reading more into your subtle comments than is warranted. I think men who will do the nice things on your list do exist - I was such a man (right down to the "do anything at any moment.") For example, I used to drive my wife to the airport for business trips, even after we had been together for 6 years, and married for 2. Isn't that romantic? Ultimately I found myself picking her up and also giving a ride home to a colleague I later discoverd she had just begun an affair with on that trip. Hah! Can you imagine how awkward that must have been for them? So, like Bette Davis said (wasn't it?) a woman wants to be able to control her man, and then once she can, she loses respect for him. I think I'm still going to be a loving, caring man, but also one that respects myself and maintains my identity as a man, even as I am involved in a relationship. Taking some imagined, future "her" to the ER, bringing her hot soup if she's in bed with the flu or a cold, surprising her with a note or flowers now and then, and yes, caring for her after a bad day. But I am also a man, confident in myself and who I am, and what I need in a partner is a similar level of contact, contribution, understanding, and empathy, so that these loving gestures are a two-way flow of intimacy, and not just a subservient relationship. So, can you tell me: do these women exist? This was a SUPERB post!
HeavenScent Posted April 1, 2008 Posted April 1, 2008 If they are offered freely, then they represent love. If they are demanded petulantly - "no matter how tired or busy he is..." without empathy or understanding in return, then they start to sound like insecurity, which breeds fear and a need to control: prove to me that I am important by giving up things that are important to you. Just to clarify as well, I do not expect men to drop every single thing they are doing at the moment to please me. Most of the time, my late boyfriend did it out of his own effort. In return, I did the same for him and a lot of it was done out of my will. I would never ask a man to do anything for me just to test him to see how important those things are to me or I am to him. To summarize: I'm not saying, don't do acts of kindness and love. I'm saying: are you sure you want to measure your partner's love by what he gives up, or by how much he subjugates his own needs over time to be in the relationship? I don't want my next relationship to be based on that. Of course not. I wouldn't want to measure a man's love by what he gives up. I don't think that's fair. I measure his love by how good his is in bed Other than that, Trimmer, your posts are insightful and I appreciate every bit of it.
DanielMadr Posted April 1, 2008 Posted April 1, 2008 :lmao: What saddens you my dear? I admit my sense of humour -or better sarcasm- darkened these last couple of days.....
Ocean-Blue Posted April 1, 2008 Posted April 1, 2008 What saddens you my dear? I admit my sense of humour -or better sarcasm- darkened these last couple of days..... That was to illustrate how I laughed at your post so... It was funny. As in really funny. Something about the way you write is a tad off but interesting nonetheless.
DanielMadr Posted April 1, 2008 Posted April 1, 2008 That was to illustrate how I laughed at your post so... It was funny. As in really funny. Something about the way you write is a tad off but interesting nonetheless. Oh, I wasnt hoping someone would understand that type of humour. You must be a fan of Monty Python or at least South Park. What a hell is "tad off" literally? My online dictionary got choked up on it.
Ocean-Blue Posted April 1, 2008 Posted April 1, 2008 Oh, I wasnt hoping someone would understand that type of humour. You must be a fan of Monty Python or at least South Park. What a hell is "tad off" literally? My online dictionary got choked up on it. I have a strange sense of humour. And by "tad off" I mean something seems "different" about your posts. Your posting style also changes sometimes. Sometimes you are very coherent and other times, you've got me giggling. I am a fan of South Park. I love random humour. Your post was too funny. I'm still laughing...
Kamille Posted April 1, 2008 Posted April 1, 2008 I skidded through the whole thread. You guys raise some very valuable points. I've been following 4's story since the beginning through all it's up and downs and the thing you have to realize is that she does for him all the things that she would want him to do. She is there for him when he needs her, but he doesn't seem to return the favor, and tells her it is because he is clueless about women. She isn't expecting control without returning the favor, I think she wants a partnership. Basically, what you should do is invert all your categories: she's a nice girl, wholly invested in wanting to make her relationship work, and wondering why it falls flat sometimes. Where do nice girls fit in all the theories about nice/good guys?
Legend Posted April 1, 2008 Posted April 1, 2008 as a previous poster said, they do exist. But you most likely friendzoned them, and went after the bad boy.
NuTuDating Posted April 1, 2008 Posted April 1, 2008 as a previous poster said, they do exist. But you most likely friendzoned them, and went after the bad boy. Exactly. Further proving the stereotype.
Pyro Posted April 1, 2008 Posted April 1, 2008 Guys like that do exist, but they are probably the doormat type of guy. Its always good when a guy, or girl goes out of their way to help out their partner, but you can't expect them to do that every single time that you want them to.
Author 4givrnt4gtr Posted April 3, 2008 Author Posted April 3, 2008 Well, i havent checked this for a while, and i was very very pleasanlty surprised at the responses i got. just as a side note, after i wrote this post my bf called me asking me if i was still up for that dinner. He had debated about staying at work but felt i was too sad so he decided to come out. I appreciated that very much and told him it was ok if we met at some other more convenient time. (he drove down the next day and took me to dinner) Kamille, thank you so much for following the drama haha. i think this relationship has been really hard on me on many levels. Being the first serious relationship ive been on, i dont know what to expect. The other men ive been with have treated me badly and after a few weeks or months, Ive gotten dumped with a "i like you but not enough" excuse. Unfortunately, this has killed my confidence to the point where Im just waiting for my current bf to do the same. When he proves me wrong (like he did by choosing me over overtime), it leaves me off balance and makes me wonder why Im expecting him to hurt me. Wondering whats wrong with me and what can i do to fix it. Posting this thread made me realize a lot of my "ideals" come from my need to be reassured I matter to him (Thank you Trimmer!!!). Somehow in my head I know I do, for many reasons and many things he's done for me, but inside, Im petrified that i may be wrong. I feel bad for him because it seems like nothing he does is ever good enough for me to be reassured he loves me. I dont want to lose him but i need to lose this fear/insecurity. THank you for all your posts....I just wish i could find some way to help myself with this insecurity
peace_pipe Posted April 3, 2008 Posted April 3, 2008 They're everywhere. You call them "just friends." I just love this.
Trialbyfire Posted April 3, 2008 Posted April 3, 2008 Yes, Trimmer's post was very insightful, from the perspective of "your currency, my currency". I've yet to respect a man who doesn't respect himself. This doesn't include manhood chest beaters...
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