The wife - an unglamorous postition to be in

[foreverinlove]

"Men just want to be understood and so do women but before you go saying you GIVE EVERYTHING to him find out if the everything you are giving is indeed what he really wants. If you play your cards right and your man sees that you actually care about him and understand him I guarantee you won't have to ask for anything from him, he will want to make you happy."

 

That one made me laugh out loud.

 

..and how about this gem...

 

"I think any man would prefer to come home to a sloppy home and take out and nice version of the wife instead anyday. Or he may like it if she showed him that she was sexually arroused by him for a change and surprised him with some sexual little treat as to let him know she was thinking about him...why should he always take the initiative?"

 

Wives don't show our men we care. We're just sloppy. We don't try to understand them. We never want to take the initiative in bed, nor do show them we think they're sexy. Hell, we'd rather clean house then spend give them sexual "treats" (*snark*). We never think about their needs. We must have all been born in an artic zone or something. Brrrrrrr... cold in here....

 

Clearly, Sarme has never been a wife and doesn't have any idea what it is to be a wife.

 

 

 

Sarme has a very good point. It has worked for me, and my man will bend over backwards to make me happy.

[annieo]

Most guys crap themselves when they think about divorce. Losing your house, your kids, 65% of your paycheck. I suppose you could argue that it's not so bad to move back in with your parents at 42 and see your kids every third leap year... but most guys I know would say different.

 

Spread the word - they don't have to imagine disaster scenarios like this.

My ex h and I share custody, which means we both have the kids 50% of the time. He did have to pay me out for half of the house, which he still lives in btw. He has a girlfriend (3 years in) and she also owns a house, so when they buy together (which they will be doing soon) he will be living a a house that is twice the value of mine in a better 'hood. So I'd say he's in a better spot financially than before.

And since he barely saw the kids when we were together (due to work), he probably has more face time with them now. In fact, he DEFINITELY is a more hands-on dad now.

I had to live in a rental for 3 years, go back to school and basically start from scratch. I'm 4 years in my own house now, gainfully employed, remarried, renovating the kitchen this summer, so I'm doing OK.

Divorce is disruptive but not total disaster. And fear of divorce is NO reason to get some on the sly. If you're just bored, don't make lame excuses, like "I'm afraid of divorce" or "My wife doesn't understand me". Nope, you're just trying to have your little harem without having your d*ck cut off by your w.

And if you are really miserably mismatched, get the hell out.

[Trialbyfire]

And if you are really miserably mismatched, get the hell out.

I completely agree with this.

 

The only problem is that most of these guys want it all. The wife and the mistress. For however long this lasts, they never believe they're going to get caught. Most do get caught and rue D-day.

[Cobra_X30]

Spread the word - they don't have to imagine disaster scenarios like this.

My ex h and I share custody, which means we both have the kids 50% of the time. He did have to pay me out for half of the house, which he still lives in btw. He has a girlfriend (3 years in) and she also owns a house, so when they buy together (which they will be doing soon) he will be living a a house that is twice the value of mine in a better 'hood. So I'd say he's in a better spot financially than before.

And since he barely saw the kids when we were together (due to work), he probably has more face time with them now. In fact, he DEFINITELY is a more hands-on dad now.

I had to live in a rental for 3 years, go back to school and basically start from scratch. I'm 4 years in my own house now, gainfully employed, remarried, renovating the kitchen this summer, so I'm doing OK.

Divorce is disruptive but not total disaster. And fear of divorce is NO reason to get some on the sly. If you're just bored, don't make lame excuses, like "I'm afraid of divorce" or "My wife doesn't understand me". Nope, you're just trying to have your little harem without having your d*ck cut off by your w.

And if you are really miserably mismatched, get the hell out.

 

Fact is, when a wife wants to take you to the cleaners... she can. It's hard and most guys are terrified of it. While thats part perception part reality... it's enough to hold them in check.

 

I think most guys really desire their wives to be everything to them, but when it becomes obvious that wont happen start feeling trapped.

 

This whole "he just got bored" isn't the general rule. There are a couple types of guys like that... and honestly it's fairly easy to pick them out. Always avoid men who place a large amount of their self esteem around chasing women.

 

This is where TBF has it right. You can't reform the manwhores. It's where their self worth originates from. Quality will never make up for quantity with these guys.

[annieo]

Fact is, when a wife wants to take you to the cleaners... she can. It's hard and most guys are terrified of it. While thats part perception part reality... it's enough to hold them in check.

 

I think most guys really desire their wives to be everything to them, but when it becomes obvious that wont happen start feeling trapped.

 

This whole "he just got bored" isn't the general rule. There are a couple types of guys like that... and honestly it's fairly easy to pick them out. Always avoid men who place a large amount of their self esteem around chasing women.

 

This is where TBF has it right. You can't reform the manwhores. It's where their self worth originates from. Quality will never make up for quantity with these guys.

 

Thanks for your 2 cents, Cobra.

I'm sure the laws are different from state to state, or country to country, but where I live (Ontario, Canada) it is very hard to take custody away from a man, unless he is physically abusive or hooked on smack. IF he wants it, which many men understandably do.

As for "taking them to the cleaners", a lot of men think that paying their child support or splitting marital assets constitutes this. My h would have been THRILLED if I walked out the door with the clothes on my back, but I had my future, and my children's, to think of.

And while he has never stiffed me for child support, I still have to ask him for the check every freaking month, because he refuses to give me post dated checks, despite the fact that he was supposed to, as per our separation agreement. Still likes to hear me beg for money, I guess.

He has also NEVER showed me (or his or my lawyer) any tax returns confirming his income. We all had to take his word on that one. I suspect that he didn't overestimate how much he makes lol!

Despite all this, he thinks he was screwed over in the money department.

 

As for men wanting their wives to be "everything" for them, I guess it depends on what they need. I think this is a pretty tough thing for anyone to be. Why do you think I have friends, or go on LS so often? Because my new h would rather poke his own eardrums out than have to fulfill my large requirements for relationship/feelings discussions. And that is fine with me.

He has World of Warcraft to bond with his buddies in geek alternative universe, too. Totally works for us. But if either of our sexual needs meant other partners, we'd be in trouble.

 

I do think there are quite a few women (and men) who think that once the ring is on the finger, they can stop trying to be nice, be caring, be generous, keep themselves looking reasonably good. Big mistake!

[annieo]

I completely agree with this.

 

The only problem is that most of these guys want it all. The wife and the mistress. For however long this lasts, they never believe they're going to get caught. Most do get caught and rue D-day.

 

Yup, hit the nail on the head.

[Woggle]

I am not saying that all wives are like that but the truth is that many are. I have a few friends who changed so much after marriage. I used to be able on a satudrday afternoon to call them up and we can hang out and now if I try that they always have to clear it with the wife who usually sulks because he is doing something for himself. Once I asked a friend if he wanted to go to a conert with me in New York and I could hear his wife on the other end screaming when he told her over the phone. Many women really resent their hsubands having a life outside of the marriahe so when these men are let out of their cage and they get attention from a woman who sees them as a man and not a paycheck and admires them instead of resenting them they go for it. It's not right but it is a reason why some men have affairs.

[sugarsoul]

I completely agree with this.

 

The only problem is that most of these guys want it all. The wife and the mistress. For however long this lasts, they never believe they're going to get caught. Most do get caught and rue D-day.

 

so true. story of my parents relationship.

[Woggle]

I don't know why men want a wife and a mistress? Isn't one woman enough of a headache? Just kidding about that one but I will advise any friends who are thinking of cheating to read the OW forums and see what he is getting himself into.

[nadiaj2727]

No, I'm saying its ok to look and have your private thoughts. You don't have to make it apparent to your SO that you find someone attractive when they are around.

 

I think you know my stance on doing things behind a SO's back. Especially when it comes to cheating.

 

Looking is one thing. Flirting is quite another. I consider flirting a form of contact that starts to cross the line. Look but don't touch. I could easily say, look, but don't flirt. Because thats how "it" starts, and you know what I mean.

 

OK then that makes more sense, I thought you were saying it's okay to gawk when your SO isn't around but not when your SO is around.

 

I like to have an open and honest relationship about everything. If I want to say George Clooney is hot, or even the lifeguard at the pool, I don't expect my SO to get all bothered by it, because he knows I love him. Likewise if he thinks someone is hot I'd rather him tell me so I can better understand his tastes. I am not going to get bothered or overly jealous, because I know he loves me and I would also feel honored that he is sharing his thoughts with me, which implies trust and security.

 

At the same time I know that whoever I am with is entitled to his private thoughts as I am to mine. I'm just saying, anything he would want to share with me, I welcome, and likewise I can't be in a relationshipswith overly jealous guys who want me to act like I'm blind and there are no other attractive people on the planet. I find many men and women attractive and I don't mind if the person I'm dating does, either. But I would make sure to let my special guy know that he's the hottest on the planet and I would want him to make sure he let me know that, too.

 

Anyway thanks for the clarification. The worst thing to me would be dating someone who gawks (or whatever) when I'm not around but acts like Little Good Boy when I'm around. I'm too smart for that anyway, I'd figure him out soon enough.

[nadiaj2727]

You are mistaken, no one needs preaching.

 

But if I did need amateur renditions from the $2 self help isle of the local book store I know where I can find it.

 

I disagree with you -- I for one definitely needed preaching when I came to LS. And I read constantly how others say "thank you for that advice, it was tough love but I needed it." So speak for yourself.

 

And Owl gives really good advice, which a lot of people thank him for-- it is rude of you to characterize him that way and try to belittle him like that. But you're rude a lot so I guess it's not out of character. You sound like an unhappy person and I would rather read Owl's advice than your mean, self-serving comments any day.

[sarme]

I disagree with you -- I for one definitely needed preaching when I came to LS. And I read constantly how others say "thank you for that advice, it was tough love but I needed it." So speak for yourself.

 

And Owl gives really good advice, which a lot of people thank him for-- it is rude of you to characterize him that way and try to belittle him like that. But you're rude a lot so I guess it's not out of character. You sound like an unhappy person and I would rather read Owl's advice than your mean, self-serving comments any day.

 

Well good for you let him leave his preaching for those who need it then, ie. you. I'm planning on getting married to my boyfriend next year and I am very confident with my choice to be with him sooooo what's this problem OWL is trying to fix? LOL I never asked for his help since there is nothing to fix here. end of story really. Go right ahead and read OWL's advice and avoid reading my posts, no one is stopping you. I actually welcome you to do that. Your posts make me uneasy anyway you are so conflicted and have so much bad energy you carry around with you I don't know how you can go through life with so much negativity!! I really don't.

[nadiaj2727]

Well good for you let him leave his preaching for those who need it then, ie. you. I'm planning on getting married to my boyfriend next year and I am very confident with my choice to be with him sooooo what's this problem OWL is trying to fix? LOL I never asked for his help since there is nothing to fix here. end of story really. Go right ahead and read OWL's advice and avoid reading my posts, no one is stopping you. I actually welcome you to do that. Your posts make me uneasy anyway you are so conflicted and have so much bad energy you carry around with you I don't know how you can go through life with so much negativity!! I really don't.

 

I don't have negativity, I am very happy now thanks. And I am definitely not conflicted. I have some guilt I am working through because I am human. We are all human.

 

Good for you for planning on getting married to your boyfriend next year. I never said anything about that. I don't know why you go off on these rants like everyone is against you. My point was that your comment to Owl was rude and you sound unhappy. If you don't agree, fine, that's just this girl's opinion. But there's no reason to insult Owl's advice just because you don't need it. Just tell him you don't need it and leave it at that. It sounds to me like you just throw insults at people you disagree with, or who say things you don't like. Just say you don't agree with them, what's the big deal.

[twice_shy]

OK then that makes more sense, I thought you were saying it's okay to gawk when your SO isn't around but not when your SO is around.

 

I like to have an open and honest relationship about everything. If I want to say George Clooney is hot, or even the lifeguard at the pool, I don't expect my SO to get all bothered by it

 

 

And he may not be bothered by it. Some people are.

 

But please answer this for me, unless he asks, why would you feel the need to tell him someone someone else is hot?

[sarme]

I have some guilt I am working through because I am human. .

 

.

 

Well your guilt comes out in the form of agression against people who don't live a certain way deemed as "acceptable" by you. Ever hear the expression "live and and let live?"

[nadiaj2727]

And he may not be bothered by it. Some people are.

 

But please answer this for me, unless he asks, why would you feel the need to tell him someone someone else is hot?

 

I don't know, just because I like to share what I'm thinking with my partner. Of course if it bothers them I won't. But in the past I've been in a relationship where it was totally fine for him to tell me that a woman is attractive and vice versa. I'm not saying we did it all the time but if we were watching a movie and an actor was shirtless, I'd say "wow, he looks good"... as that's what I was thinking and I had no reason to keep it to myself. And he would do the same, and I liked to know what he was thinking.

 

I guess my short answer to your question is why not. If I knew it hurt his feelings I wouldn't do it, depends on the guy. But I'm attracted to guys who are self confidant and know that just b/c I say another guy is "hot" (I wouldn't necessarily use that word, more like "cut" or "attractive" or whatever adjective fit at the time) *doesn't* mean I don't still think they're the hottest guy ever. And I'm attracted to guys who tell me what's on their mind (that's pretty rare LOL) so I *like* when a guy opens up enough to tell me another girl looks good, instead of feeling like that will offend me in some way. (Obviously I'm not talking about on a first date, that would be weird. I mean once trust and closeness has been established, he is free to share *anything* with me and vice versa.) Those are just the relationships I've been in in the past -- it hasn't been an issue, like, "OMG you think she's hot? I better go to the gym and work out for three hours." No, it's more like, "good to know, I think she's pretty good-looking too." And of course I know he still thinks I'm the bomb.

[nadiaj2727]

Well your guilt comes out in the form of agression against people who don't live a certain way deemed as "acceptable" by you. Ever hear the expression "live and and let live?"

 

I am not sure where I have been aggressive with anyone -- I just let them know my opinion. Sure I've heard of "live and let live" and I certainly don't go around on the street telling strangers to shape up. But this is a forum where people come and ask for advice and discussion and debate ensues. I came to LS when I was having big issues and people's advice and tough love really helped me. So I do the same for other posters. If they are acting in a way that doesn't seem acceptable to me, that will be part of my advice and my opinion. *shrug* I don't see why you can give your opinion but I can't give mine, just because our opinions may differ. And I don't see how I've been any more "aggressive" than you... you can be downright nasty at times and if you think I can be too, okay, but my intention is to help people and your intention seems to be to validate your own lifestyle? I don't know what your intention is and I'm not here to guess. But I think it's more that you have a problem with my opinion. That is just my opinion too though, of course.

 

If you don't ask me for advice, I won't give you my advice, but if something in one of your posts makes me stop and think "hmmm..." I will say my opinion because this is a public forum and I'm not going to hide it just because you don't like it...

[sarme]

*like* when a guy opens up enough to tell me another girl looks good, instead of feeling like that will offend me in some way. (Obviously I'm not talking about on a first date, that would be weird. I mean once trust and closeness has been established, he is free to share *anything* with me and vice versa.)

What difference does it make if a guy makes a comment about another hot woman on the first date or in the 60th month of a long term relationship? You want to know what's on his mind in the long run but not on the first date?!?!? I don't see why that would be weird and not later on..?

[nadiaj2727]

I don't mean to speak for anyone, but judging from Nadia's posts I would say her guilt is remorse for how she has hurt people in the past. It's called owning responsibility. And I have yet to read any aggression coming from her posts. Dismay? Perhaps. Disgust? Possibly.

 

Yeah SOC that's pretty accurate, thanks. Sometimes I do get disgusted with people's actions -- it disgusts me that people are okay about hurting other people. And I get dismayed that people continue on in these situations that they are miserable in (not sarme--- I have had very little contact with sarme and don't know too much about her situation, I mean in general.)

 

But I would like to point out that I get *just* as disgusted and indignant when people come here for the purpose of "preaching" and giving comments not to help but to just state their own opinion or beliefs. I also hate when people call other people names or show absolutely no intention to help them, just to hurt them when they are obviously already hurting. I do not feel that I do that. Nor do I feel Owl does that. I think that sometimes people hurl insults at us or say our posts are this or that just because they don't agree with our opinions and they want to try to make us look bad. (I don't think it works. Their own nastiness is what looks bad -- just like people who actually only hurl insults and "preachiness" only look bad and their advice is never taken.) So my point was that it was rude for Sarme to insult Owl's opinions and advice just because she doesn't agree with them. I think she says the same about me because she doesn't agree with me... it seems to be a pattern and that was my comment.

 

Anyway sorry for all of this off topic banter, I am going to step out of the way so that we can refocus on the original point of this thread. I certainly didn't mean to get into personal disputes with anyone, I just didn't think the nasty comments about Owl were called for.

[nadiaj2727]

What difference does it make if a guy makes a comment about another hot woman on the first date or in the 60th month of a long term relationship? You want to know what's on his mind in the long run but not on the first date?!?!? I don't see why that would be weird and not later on..?

 

I meant that I would have to feel secure that he has eyes only for me, which to me takes time -- otherwise I wouldn't be sure if he was a player or if he was just making comments to see how I react etc.

 

Also I would think it would take time for him to be be able to trust me enough to open up to me about his otherwise private thoughts. If he said it right away I would distrust his motives, but once it's been established that each of us are only into each other, I have no problem being as honest and open as we each felt comfortable with.

 

I was just saying that that level of comfort, for me, takes a lot of time to build, it isn't just there right away even if the attraction and chemistry is there right away.

[nadiaj2727]

BTW, Nadia. The "beeyotch with an attention whore complex" comment wasn't really in regard to mentioning to an SO that someone of the opposite sex was attractive. It was more in regard to the whole "if you really call it honesty, then why ever tell a little white lie" theory. As in openly ogling some guy in front of your man and wondering aloud what it would be like to have sex with him, or telling your girlfriend her hair looks like cat vomit. It's not dishonest to not be brutally cold and completely rip a person up by tempering what you have to say with a measure of love. But some just can't see the difference.

 

 

I'm glad you explained because I thought you were calling me a beeyotch with an attention whore complex. J/K I knew you weren't but thanks for the explanation.

 

There is definitely a comfort level with how honest to be, and it depends on the couple and the individuals that make up the couple. Some people are more sensitive than others, some are more brutally honest etc. But there is always that measure of love that has to come into play, yes. If we all went around spouting off the first thing that came into our heads, we would hurt a lot of people because we didn't put it through the "love" (or "decency" etc.) filter first. That filter makes us a little less "honest" than our blind thoughts but I don't think our blind thoughts are very "honest" either because they are based on raw instinct and emotions, before our logic or heart comes to have any say in the matter.

[Owl]

I appreciate the support, Nadja. I've been getting those same kinds of flames (from the same kind of people) since I first started posting here on LS back in '04.

 

Sarme's anger with me isn't surprising in the least. And the best way to deal with it is simple...give her what she wants. There is nothing I can say or do to create a situation where we'll agree, so the best bet is to simply avoid disagreeing where it doesn't matter (like here). If we disagree in a situation where someone is here for advice...we'll deal with that when/if it happens.

[nadiaj2727]

I appreciate the support, Nadja. I've been getting those same kinds of flames (from the same kind of people) since I first started posting here on LS back in '04.

 

Sarme's anger with me isn't surprising in the least. And the best way to deal with it is simple...give her what she wants. There is nothing I can say or do to create a situation where we'll agree, so the best bet is to simply avoid disagreeing where it doesn't matter (like here). If we disagree in a situation where someone is here for advice...we'll deal with that when/if it happens.

 

Yes, it's interesting that the only people who flame you are the ones who disagree with you that affairs are wrong. Your posts are always respectful, and I thought this even when I was an OW who obviously disagreed with you on some issues. You are a consistently helpful poster who gives advice with the intent to be helpful (yes, based on your own opinions and past experiences, like everyone else), so all I can think of is that they don't like the advice/ opinions that you give. That's why I get upset when people flame you.

 

You're right, the best way is to ignore it and avoid disagreement. It must be hard to do when they sling cheap comments at you like that though.

[twice_shy]

I don't know, just because I like to share what I'm thinking with my partner.

 

I like to share what I'm thinking with my partner too.

 

I just don't feel the need to rub it in her face if I think someone else is hot. I don't see the point.

 

Men have been in the doghouse for less.

[sarme]

Sarme's anger with me isn't surprising in the least. And the best way to deal with it is simple...give her what she wants. There is nothing I can say or do to create a situation where we'll agree, so the best bet is to simply avoid disagreeing where it doesn't matter (like here). If we disagree in a situation where someone is here for advice...we'll deal with that when/if it happens.

A) I am not angryB) I do get annoyed that you are trying to talk me out of something that is already signed sealed and delivered as far as I am concerned. I'm sorry you can't accept that my story ended happily for me given that we met under the circumstance of an extramarital affair, but if the love and passion my b/f and I feel for each other could not keep us apart what makes you think your words on here are going to make me change my mind? LOL I mean seriously you sound like a well balanced guy so let's get a reality check now. Save your advice and energy for those who are seeking it, I am not seeking to fix anything so don't waste your time. Here it is: I would much rather have loved with the intensity that I love this man today and later lose him than to coast along and settle for a mediocre relationship that is both unfulfilling and uninspiring because it is what society intended for me. I dance to the beat of my own drum and I make 0 apologies for that, if I have to suffer for my choices those are the consquences I am willing to take but until then giddy up!!!

One relative constant I've seen in my life...those that need it most usually are the ones who are the blindest to it.

 

Good luck to you, however it works out.

 

and if you are going to make comments as the one above expect people to think you are not only condescending, but that you have some sort of a grandiose complex. It is really hard to take you seriously when you take yourself so seriously, it leaves no room for us on the ouside to do so.

Edited April 7, 2008 by sarme