whichwayisup Posted March 31, 2008 Posted March 31, 2008 See, in your mind it's nothing..But in hers? Well..Let me ask. Who does most of the emaiing, making arrangements, calling to go out? Also, does she listen and give you advice or try to help you without getting involved? (Meaning, she is doing what is best for you, not trash talking your gf or saying bad stuff about her, making you doubt things or possibly make you look at "her"?)
Author guy.lepage Posted March 31, 2008 Author Posted March 31, 2008 If you are willing to have a friendship with this women I think you guys should have the talk.. make it very clear that you are just friends.. I do believe your parnters should be aware of this as well. I put myself into your gfs shoes I would not be happy even thaugh there is no affaire... I dont know maybe shes not the jalouse type. Think this through .. if she would kiss you .. ya gotta know if youd kiss her or not. Sounds like you are unsure of your current gf thaugh .. even thaugh your not cheating. Is there something missing in your relationship that you get from this girl?? I see your point about making things clear but I must say I haven't had the "friend" talk since high school or so. It just doesn't seem right to me. I remember a couple of girls gave me the "friend" talk and I was like, "what made you think otherwise"? I can't see myself having this talk unless the woman truly hits on me, which she isn't. I'm the type of guy who enjoys one on one talks, especially with women. As for the kissing question, good god I would be in trouble in that ever happened but I can tell you it's not leaning in that direction right now...
whichwayisup Posted March 31, 2008 Posted March 31, 2008 It allows me to talk freely. It's not that I'm hiding her from my GF. I just wouldn't take any of my guy friends to these dinners either simply because it wouldn't feel right. I get that, but out of respect for your gf - Reverse the situation. How would you feel if she were out late at night having dinner and drinks with some previous coworker, talking to him about your relationship problems and you had no clue? Would you feel hurt? Abit jealous, or betrayed? Feel insecure or worry that the guy is gonna hit on your gf or even worse, she developed feelings for him?
Author guy.lepage Posted March 31, 2008 Author Posted March 31, 2008 He needs to get past the hump of "things aren't going so hot in my R right now and I don't want to make it worse". I dealt with that through full disclosure. I have a feeling the OP might have more in common with me than visible at first blush, and I'm not talking about friendship issues. OP, what is your history with women? Lots of friends (by choice) and relatively few romances in comparison? If so, I can likely help you. Actually I have a lot of friends from HS, not very many from my post HS years. All of my guy friends have been around from years and years. This female friend is perhaps one of the first friendships I've had with a woman outside of school.
whichwayisup Posted March 31, 2008 Posted March 31, 2008 As for the kissing question, good god I would be in trouble in that ever happened but I can tell you it's not leaning in that direction right now... Why would you be in trouble? Would you allow the kiss? Or would you back off right away and not let her kiss you and tell her RIGHT AWAY that she just ruined a nice platonic friendship and that it can never be the same, no more going out at all, no more one on one's let alone emails.
Author guy.lepage Posted March 31, 2008 Author Posted March 31, 2008 See, in your mind it's nothing..But in hers? Well..Let me ask. Who does most of the emaiing, making arrangements, calling to go out? Also, does she listen and give you advice or try to help you without getting involved? (Meaning, she is doing what is best for you, not trash talking your gf or saying bad stuff about her, making you doubt things or possibly make you look at "her"?) In terms of the e-mails, I think I initiate most of the blah blah. As for the activities, she usually mentions when she's in town and I'm the one proposing an activity. I think it's pretty much even. I probably contact her more often than the other way around. As for the advice part, I definitely do not go into details. I just say stuff like "well I had a rough week" and she'll ask me "are you ok?" and that's pretty much it.
Author guy.lepage Posted March 31, 2008 Author Posted March 31, 2008 I get that, but out of respect for your gf - Reverse the situation. How would you feel if she were out late at night having dinner and drinks with some previous coworker, talking to him about your relationship problems and you had no clue? Would you feel hurt? Abit jealous, or betrayed? Feel insecure or worry that the guy is gonna hit on your gf or even worse, she developed feelings for him? Yes, all of the above! I wouldn't be hurt but certainly wonder about the nature of the relationship. That's why I wouldn't want to know about the details.
Author guy.lepage Posted March 31, 2008 Author Posted March 31, 2008 Why would you be in trouble? Would you allow the kiss? Or would you back off right away and not let her kiss you and tell her RIGHT AWAY that she just ruined a nice platonic friendship and that it can never be the same, no more going out at all, no more one on one's let alone emails. God you're asking me tough questions tonight... I really don't know about this one. I can't even imagine myself kissing her at all. We simply we never in a situation where a kiss could've happened.
whichwayisup Posted March 31, 2008 Posted March 31, 2008 I'm glad I have you thinking...Because you DO have to consider your gf's feelings in all this, especially if you two are living together and serious. It's not just want "you" want, and to hide stuff from her, even if the situation was reversed and you'd rather not know at all... You may not have thought about it at all, but she may have had. It sounds innocent enough but just don't PUT yourself in that situation where something 'could' happen. Don't cross the boundries and respect of the platonicness (new word!) between you two.
Author guy.lepage Posted March 31, 2008 Author Posted March 31, 2008 I'm glad I have you thinking...Because you DO have to consider your gf's feelings in all this, especially if you two are living together and serious. It's not just want "you" want, and to hide stuff from her, even if the situation was reversed and you'd rather not know at all... You may not have thought about it at all, but she may have had. It sounds innocent enough but just don't PUT yourself in that situation where something 'could' happen. Don't cross the boundries and respect of the platonicness (new word!) between you two. Thank you for sharing your perspective on this. I may just become single pretty soon so this may become a non-issue...
whichwayisup Posted March 31, 2008 Posted March 31, 2008 Thank you for sharing your perspective on this. I may just become single pretty soon so this may become a non-issue... You're welcome...BUT...(sorry buddy) you being single kind of changes the ballgame abit too, especially if SHE is sort of liking the extra attention you give her. You say you're the one who emails first and makes the arrangements to go out...Plus, you being single could make her think that YOU think of her outside of the lines.. So, I take it your relationship is on the rocks, enough that you might be free soon?
Author guy.lepage Posted March 31, 2008 Author Posted March 31, 2008 You're welcome...BUT...(sorry buddy) you being single kind of changes the ballgame abit too, especially if SHE is sort of liking the extra attention you give her. You say you're the one who emails first and makes the arrangements to go out...Plus, you being single could make her think that YOU think of her outside of the lines.. So, I take it your relationship is on the rocks, enough that you might be free soon? Let's just say there isn't much hope at this point. I was more than slightly annoyed for a while but I'm feeling stronger now. In fact I'm feeling better than I have been for a long time. All of your questions are in fact supporting the initial idea when I started this thread. A man and a woman, alone, having fancy dinner, does bring its share of suspicions...
carhill Posted March 31, 2008 Posted March 31, 2008 OP, would it then be accurate to say that you aren't used to having female platonic friends? If yes, talk to your friend about your concerns. Make sure you're on the same page so there are no misunderstandings. I can't speak for other couples, but there are many things my wife shares with her girlfriends that I'm unaware of. That's normal, IMO. There are things I don't need to know about, especially those Keith Urban fantasies Anyway, if you normally have predominantly male friendships, you should be sharing any private stuff with them, not a woman, IMO because that type of intimacy isn't familiar to you in a non-sexual way. You may enjoy one on one talks with women, but apparently none you haven't wanted to be sexual with. That's important. If you express reservations about appropriate affection like kissing, then I know it's an issue. Remember, your feelings (whatever they are) are valid and real but you will be judged by your actions. Always be mindful of that. Good luck!
Author guy.lepage Posted March 31, 2008 Author Posted March 31, 2008 OP, would it then be accurate to say that you aren't used to having female platonic friends? If yes, talk to your friend about your concerns. Make sure you're on the same page so there are no misunderstandings. I can't speak for other couples, but there are many things my wife shares with her girlfriends that I'm unaware of. That's normal, IMO. There are things I don't need to know about, especially those Keith Urban fantasies Anyway, if you normally have predominantly male friendships, you should be sharing any private stuff with them, not a woman, IMO because that type of intimacy isn't familiar to you in a non-sexual way. You may enjoy one on one talks with women, but apparently none you haven't wanted to be sexual with. That's important. If you express reservations about appropriate affection like kissing, then I know it's an issue. Remember, your feelings (whatever they are) are valid and real but you will be judged by your actions. Always be mindful of that. Good luck! You are right, I don't often have platonic friendships with women. I'm not sure about the "appropriate affection like kissing" part though. What exactly do you mean?
BetrayedMM Posted March 31, 2008 Posted March 31, 2008 IDK, it sure sounds like an A to me. Let's see, are there secrets? Yep. Do you have a healthy relationship at home? Nope. If the roles were reversed would you be upset? Yep. Have you thought this through yet? Well, WWIU wasn't really asking hard questions, so the answer is no. You're not even sure how you'll react if she takes any steps towards making it physical. That speaks volumes. Here's a question- are you troubled by the current situation, and if so, how would you like it to change?
Author guy.lepage Posted March 31, 2008 Author Posted March 31, 2008 IDK, it sure sounds like an A to me. Let's see, are there secrets? Yep. Do you have a healthy relationship at home? Nope. If the roles were reversed would you be upset? Yep. Have you thought this through yet? Well, WWIU wasn't really asking hard questions, so the answer is no. You're not even sure how you'll react if she takes any steps towards making it physical. That speaks volumes. Here's a question- are you troubled by the current situation, and if so, how would you like it to change? No, I'm not troubled by my relationship with this female friend of mine. I mean, I haven't thought about what I'd do if she tried to kiss me. Same principle applies if Estella Warren or Angelina Jolie were to ask me out. I simply haven't thought about it because it's not among the immediate possibilities... I simply wanted to display my case to provide an example of a situation that most people would qualify as an EA - but that truly isn't one if you ask me.
BetrayedMM Posted March 31, 2008 Posted March 31, 2008 OK, let me put it this way. Assuming you're heterosexual(or even if not), if any of your male friends wanted to kiss, I bet you know exactly how you'd react. Why isn't it a likely thing to happen? I see nothing preventing it. Sure, there are exceptions for everything. The only problem is we all, every one of us, think we're that exception from time to time. We tell ourselves "no, not HER", "I'm not like that", or "it's different for ME". Then we wake up one day and see ourselves following the same old script.
Author guy.lepage Posted March 31, 2008 Author Posted March 31, 2008 OK, let me put it this way. Assuming you're heterosexual(or even if not), if any of your male friends wanted to kiss, I bet you know exactly how you'd react. Why isn't it a likely thing to happen? I see nothing preventing it. Sure, there are exceptions for everything. The only problem is we all, every one of us, think we're that exception from time to time. We tell ourselves "no, not HER", "I'm not like that", or "it's different for ME". Then we wake up one day and see ourselves following the same old script. Thanks for your perspective. Here's an other one... All of my female friends are relatively pretty. If I were single, I probably wouldn't resist if they all tried to kiss me. Does it mean I'm having an EA with all of them? Does it mean I cannot have a friendship with another female at all without being in an EA? I realize a friendship between a man and a woman is always a bit more tricky. Other people will judge the friendship as well.
Owl Posted March 31, 2008 Posted March 31, 2008 I skimmed through this thread, so forgive me if I miss some details. Is the woman you're having drinks with married? If so, does her H know about your dates with her? How does HE feel about her time with her? Do you think she's being totally honest with him about all that's being said/done with you? You'd mentioned that your GF would be jealous is she knew the full details about your 'meetings' with your friend. Does this bother you? If you know this, would you be willing to be honest with your GF about all that has gone on, and work to alleviate her potential hurt/upset over the meetings? Bottom line question...if your GF 'found out' the truth of your dates with your friend and asked you to stop...would you stop? Would you keep going, and tell your GF that's what you were doing? Or would you keep going, and hide them better? All things to think about in context of this potentially being an affair. From MY perspective...you can have opposite sex friends if you're in a relationship, but there have to be some very clear cut boundaries to ensure that the friendship doesn't cross the line. You're hiding "details" from your GF...that's already a crossed boundary. Make any sense to you so far?
BetrayedMM Posted March 31, 2008 Posted March 31, 2008 Heh. Something just occurred to me. The thing about friends kissing. In some cultures, men kiss each other on the cheek all the time and it means nothing sexual whatsoever. I remember a thread where you said "Guy Lepage" is a popular comedian wherever you are. That might be VERY far away, because I never heard of him, and I like comedy. Reminds me of the drivers' ed thing from Borat. "I'm not used to that, but that's OK" Probably doesn't apply, but I have to try to keep these things in mind when communicating on the internet.
Author guy.lepage Posted March 31, 2008 Author Posted March 31, 2008 Heh. Something just occurred to me. The thing about friends kissing. In some cultures, men kiss each other on the cheek all the time and it means nothing sexual whatsoever. I remember a thread where you said "Guy Lepage" is a popular comedian wherever you are. That might be VERY far away, because I never heard of him, and I like comedy. Reminds me of the drivers' ed thing from Borat. "I'm not used to that, but that's OK" Probably doesn't apply, but I have to try to keep these things in mind when communicating on the internet. Yup. Where I come from friends of opposite sex give two kisses on the cheeks. Where she comes from friends give each other a little hug.
Author guy.lepage Posted March 31, 2008 Author Posted March 31, 2008 I skimmed through this thread, so forgive me if I miss some details. Is the woman you're having drinks with married? If so, does her H know about your dates with her? How does HE feel about her time with her? Do you think she's being totally honest with him about all that's being said/done with you? You'd mentioned that your GF would be jealous is she knew the full details about your 'meetings' with your friend. Does this bother you? If you know this, would you be willing to be honest with your GF about all that has gone on, and work to alleviate her potential hurt/upset over the meetings? Bottom line question...if your GF 'found out' the truth of your dates with your friend and asked you to stop...would you stop? Would you keep going, and tell your GF that's what you were doing? Or would you keep going, and hide them better? All things to think about in context of this potentially being an affair. From MY perspective...you can have opposite sex friends if you're in a relationship, but there have to be some very clear cut boundaries to ensure that the friendship doesn't cross the line. You're hiding "details" from your GF...that's already a crossed boundary. Make any sense to you so far? Thanks for pitching in. I'm not telling my GF everything as I've never been the 1+1=1 type of person. She has her life and I have mine. She could do whatever she wants when I'm not around as long as that does not involve physical intimacy with another man - and I apply the same principle to me. I see a lot of posts here involving people freaking out because their partner has been watching porn or having lunch with a workmate, and it is so far away from my conception of a healthy relationship. That being said, mine is about to end but it has nothing to do with this friendship of mine. I simply think we were due. People have various levels of acceptance when it comes to their partner's friendships. I do not know what she tells her H about our dinners and I've never asked her either. From the start this has seemed like a genuine friendship to me.
BetrayedMM Posted March 31, 2008 Posted March 31, 2008 That's interesting. Round here a guy(heh) could lose teeth trying to kiss another man. Anywhere on his body, face, whatever. A hug, maybe, if they're close friends, but it's got to be a 'manly' hug, different that the way a man hugs a woman. Sure puts the whole kiss question in a different perspective though. Under those circumstances I wouldn't know what to make of it.
carhill Posted March 31, 2008 Posted March 31, 2008 You are right, I don't often have platonic friendships with women. I'm not sure about the "appropriate affection like kissing" part though. What exactly do you mean? When my wife hugs and kisses my best friend goodnight, and I his wife, that's appropriate affection. We are very close and share many business and personal intimacies. It's not sexual. That's the difference. If you want an education in kissing, go to the FSU. I was kissing men before I left there
Author guy.lepage Posted March 31, 2008 Author Posted March 31, 2008 That's interesting. Round here a guy(heh) could lose teeth trying to kiss another man. Anywhere on his body, face, whatever. A hug, maybe, if they're close friends, but it's got to be a 'manly' hug, different that the way a man hugs a woman. Sure puts the whole kiss question in a different perspective though. Under those circumstances I wouldn't know what to make of it. My comment pertained to friends of the opposite sex... Around here, a hug is much more intimate than a kiss. Friends must be really close to hug each other. As for men kissing men, it is rather common in certain areas of Europe among others.
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