Jump to content

An observation and theory many guys have


While the thread author can add an update and reopen discussion, this thread was last posted in over a month ago. Want to continue the conversation? Feel free to start a new thread instead!

Recommended Posts

Posted

 

OK an admission that the theory is obstensibly true.

 

 

 

 

I think they are on in the same. Maybe not all "players" are "bad boys" but all bad boys are players.

 

 

 

OK but what about nice guys, They're not players? I still don't see the distinction between player and bad boy, but I sort of understand.

 

 

 

 

Hmm, so are players, not seeing the difference other than sematics? But nothing in your description really describes a bad boy as opposed to a good guy other than maybe being "unapologetically 'male'". That could be something a nice guy lacks usually.

 

 

 

So he's just in it for the chase? Are you still talking about bad boys or players here. This was your early definition of a player. It seems to be kind of contradictory. Also how do you know upon first meeting he wants a thrill of the chase? Nice guys chase women a lot too.

 

 

 

This sounds like you're saying point blank don't be a nice guy, be a sexual guy and in it for sex primarily. You used a lot of loaded terms in there like "biological traits". Is this biological trait the being a "dark side" guy that the theory mention earlier maybe?

 

 

 

So all this should favor the good guy and disfavor the bad guy and player, right? Yet we don't really sees this in actuality.

 

 

 

OK theory from biology and sociology. Not that they are the best sources of Bad boys or womanizers. Most scientific studies I've read concluded that a person's looks and facial symetry was the only link between attraction that they found.

 

 

 

But that explanation as given is really just saying men should be how they naturally are inclined to, i.e., sexual and "chase" different women, and this causes attraction in women.

 

 

 

But if sleaziness is the turn off wouldn't good guys have the least sleaziness, then bad boys, then as-holes, which are really just a more extreme form of being a bad boy?

 

I think you misunderstood a lot of what I said...but I was a bit tired.

 

I said I meaning ME meaning MY admission- that I enjoy a bit of a bad boy. That's my admission- I represent me and no one else. please remember that.

 

There is a HUGE difference between a player and a bad boy- a real big one for me. A Bad boy understands women- while a player doesn't wish to. Players usually border on, or are misogynists. Many of the bad boy types I've dated still remain my friends to this day. The courting was usually brief- 3mos-to a year. They never treated me badly, the chemistry was always on high burn.

 

When I talk about what a "bad boy" represents to me: I am not talking about a guy that will treat me like crap, a guy that will bang me and never call me again, hit on my friends, or do anything intentionally to hurt me.

 

Okay, having said that: A player or an @ss-hole will treat a woman with disrespect- he will treat a woman like crap because he sees her as a number. He hasn't learned anything about the nature of women because he doesn't wish to- he has simply learned how to play a game. Believe me- with a player, there is always a sleaze factor an intelligent woman will see coming from miles away.

 

Bad boys will have a charm that even smart women don't always see coming. They are adventurous, charming, witty, fun- they often have lots of female friends (which is how they know women so well) and they truly love females. They have a bit of a wild side- and you'll know who they are because when they walk into a room the women perk up like a deer at a water hole.

 

The difference is the understanding of women- rather than simply the understanding of how to play a game. A SMART woman can smell BS- and I'll sniff out a player over a BB before he talks to me. A player isn't an alpha male- he only wants to be or thinks he is, and he is often a misogynist. Remember- this is my distinction here- I am speaking of how I distinguish the differences and why one type is attractive to ME while the other is not.

 

Do BB's leave a string of broken hearts in their wake?? Yes. I've been hurt by a few. But any BB I have dated has never treated me with disrespect or been an a-hole to me. We've simply broken up. Bad boys are often interim guys for me- the ones I date between serious relationships.

 

I don't know how you haven't heard of the innate nature of the species to spread the seed, to propogate - the nature of the beast. I can find you numerous links on the subject. It's in every biology book in the library - it's just science basics. Facial symmetry is a law of attraction theory - along with "like attracts like"... we see our own faces in the mirror everyday- admire our own features and tend to see those same qualities attractive in mates. Have you ever seen couples that look like they could be brother and sister?

 

The biology aspect just explains attraction at it's baseness- propogation of the species. As I said before- culture, religion, socialization and cognitive abilities are apart of our nature..... even though we have progressed socially doesn't negate laws of biology. But it does set human being apart from animals. We have the ability to be discerning.

 

We simply have the power of "choice and thought" to contend with on top of our biology. That can make things confusing. That is why right now we are debating this instead of hunting for our food or screwing.

 

Don't ever think you have to be an a-hole or treat women badly to win the heart of a woman. Learn to understand them. I can't stress enough the difference between the two labels. A player is simply an alpha male knock off- and a bad one at that. Think Hollywood bad boys women love: Brad Pitt, George Clooney. Players/jerks: Colin Farrell, Jude Law (total sleaze factor) Nice guys: Matt Damon, Ben Affleck.

 

All I am explaining here is why there is an attraction present to certain qualities in a male. It works the other way too.

 

I like nice guys too... but I don't like doormats.

Ideally- I enjoy a balanced guy. Someone with a bit of a wild side who treats me with respect, sees me as an equal- yet offers me a challenge- intellectually, emotionally and sexually. There is always an air of both inner and outer strength present in the men I am attracted to. These are the keepers I am talking about- not interim guys ;) A keeper for me is also always intelligent and witty. Chemistry....

 

Women do like nice guys- they just want them to have a backbone, a fun side, an air of naughtiness.

 

If a woman enjoys being treated like crap- it's not a "bad boy" attraction they have.... it's an insecurity problem, a low self esteem, poor sense of self worth. That is why players and sleaze bags can be sucessful at picking up too.

 

Anyway- I hope that made more sense to you Fonzie... Feel free to ask away. I'll look up that link - I just hesitate to use anything from the web as a credible source of information....

Posted

Luke Skywalker = Hero, chivalrous, integrity, honesty, ... no sex life

 

Han Solo = was in it for the money, a smuggler, criminal involved with the seedy side of life...definitely a bad boy, then changed a bit and became heroic (oohh a womans perfect dream) he got laid

 

 

These archetypes were not by accident and there's no doubt that the girls were way more into Han than Luke in 'that' way.

Posted
Im sorry. I didnt want to patronize you :) Wrong is when a person doesnt take care of her life first or most. OK I drop it. Take care.

 

As for te rest:

 

There are certain levels of attitude a guy can have. From Neat Guy To Total D1ck. From my personal experience far more from neat guy you are the more women you attract. Your personal loathing of bad boys or boys who express some sexual side towards you, cant move statistics.

 

To your first comment: taking care of business is taking care of one's life. Life isn't meant to be an 80-year party and that's a good thing, because doing a difficult thing well is a heck of a lot more satisfying than getting drunk and vying for the attention of a lot of shallow men.

 

To the second: Bad boys aren't men who are being sexual. The assumption behind that is that sex is bad, and I don't agree with that. However, trying to bully, pressure, trick, drug or manipulate a woman into sex doesn't make a man sexual, it makes him an @sshole.

 

Alternatively, trying to buy, wheedle, bribe or beg your way into a woman's bed doesn't make you a nice guy. It just makes you a different kind of @sshole.

 

Maybe that's the most disturbing thing about this, the idea that bad boy = man with sex drive. That's just sick.

Posted (edited)

There's a researcher who's noted for his different look at risk taking behavior... especially unecessary risk taking. Some animals when outrunning a predator actually taunt and jump towards them... As if to say "My survival instincts and strength are sooo good, I can survive even when I do something that seems so dumb."

 

There are cultures all over the world where the men must compete in some pretty dangerous and painful rituals to prove they are 'men' and worthy of a wife.

 

Most women are attracted to Firefighters, policemen etc.. all men who take risks and survive apparently showing superior instincts.. good genetics etc. Many women will marry the safe, decent, good provider and find themselves one day feeling like somethings missing and get a boost from a 'wild man' she can't explain... Just looking for good genes.

 

In the end ... really it's not in the big frontal thinking brain where gut 'attraction' lives, it's in the the old reptilian brian... which is why sometimes trying to use the big brain to talk about it just goes in circles...

Edited by sumdude
Posted

D-Lish - Thank you for speaking up in this thread. Seemed like most of the responses were from women that take the stance of no bad boys.

 

So to reiterate what you said, because like theFonz, I'm a bit confused. Please clarify if I misunderstood your post.

 

Playas - they know what do to get women, but they do it purely as a number game. As if whoever dies with the most number of scores wins.

 

Bad Boys - they're similar to the playas, except they want you instead of want to cross off that check mark on his list, so at the core it is about you. But for the most part they're still about what they want, just that what they want happens to be you, until they decide to move on?

 

Good guys (to avoid the overloaded "nice guy" term) - Kind of confused here, so doormats aside, how would you differentiate between a good guy with social skills vs. a bad boy? The good guy is less exciting and less appealing? In what ways? What makes a socially well adjusted good guy lose to a bad boy? Or do they?

 

DanielMadr - I think you had some excellent posts.

 

Elemental - sorry, but to be honest, your post confuses me. I couldn't really figure out what you're trying to say. If you want hard scientific statistics, I don't think there's one available. I'd like to see that frankly. But from what I've seen, read, and experienced, this is what I see:

 

- There's a subset of women like you -- they stay away from bad boys.

- There's a subset of women like D-Lish -- they like bad boys and they are honest about it.

 

Kudos to both of you. One of the most important things in life is to know what you want.

 

- But the largest subset of women will claim they don't like bad boys, even go as far as to claim they like nice guys, but fall for bad boys/playas anyway.

Posted
To your first comment: taking care of business is taking care of one's life. Life isn't meant to be an 80-year party and that's a good thing, because doing a difficult thing well is a heck of a lot more satisfying than getting drunk and vying for the attention of a lot of shallow men.

Thats what you think means to take care of yourself?:D Heh, typical Nice Girl, afraid to stand on her own legs and give her own life a chance. You should read something like No More Mr Nice Guy and such. Beyond the cloak of UN-SELFISHNESS....is the Fear as real reason for all these set backs in life. Strong happy people are better at helping others anyway;)

 

To the second: Bad boys aren't men who are being sexual. The assumption behind that is that sex is bad, and I don't agree with that. However, trying to bully, pressure, trick, drug or manipulate a woman into sex doesn't make a man sexual, it makes him an @sshole.

 

Alternatively, trying to buy, wheedle, bribe or beg your way into a woman's bed doesn't make you a nice guy. It just makes you a different kind of @sshole.

 

Yep I agree. But the Bad Boy is certainly more sexual than Nice Guy.

Azzhole - yes I agree. I already posted something about the difference bad-boy vs Evil azzhole

Maybe that's the most disturbing thing about this, the idea that bad boy = man with sex drive. That's just sick.

 

Actually Its pretty much why is he so succesful with women (some, not you).

 

Bad boy - imature, cant hadle his emotions - beats women, robs banks

Azzhole - evil creep - tortures women, runs/uses bad boys

Nice guy - imature, surpresses his emotions - supplicates to women, has a job

Mr. Right - mature, controls his emotions- loves women (not like his mother or enemy), leads

All other men - oscilating between these

Posted
There's a researcher who's noted for his different look at risk taking behavior... especially unecessary risk taking. Some animals when outrunning a predator actually taunt and jump towards them... As if to say "My survival instincts and strength are sooo good, I can survive even when I do something that seems so dumb."

 

There are cultures all over the world where the men must compete in some pretty dangerous and painful rituals to prove they are 'men' and worthy of a wife.

 

Most women are attracted to Firefighters, policemen etc.. all men who take risks and survive apparently showing superior instincts.. good genetics etc. Many women will marry the safe, decent, good provider and find themselves one day feeling like somethings missing and get a boost from a 'wild man' she can't explain... Just looking for good genes.

 

In the end ... really it's not in the big frontal thinking brain where gut 'attraction' lives, it's in the the old reptilian brian... which is why sometimes trying to use the big brain to talk about it just goes in circles...

 

Interesting. I think its true. In other thread...I had an idea why is that women are attracted to Bad Boys aka Bold Boys - I came to conclusion that they posses no doubts. And it is appealing because it is what wins fights too (as in your post with predators). And becuse it signifies No Doubts about myself - Good life with me.

 

What is wrong is...they have no doubts about themselves because they are soft in the head - they dont think about problems and/or they were taught to not show fear(doubts) about anything as kids (abusive parents, rough childhod). So when the problems eventually comes they burst in anger.

Posted
Thats what you think means to take care of yourself?:D Heh, typical Nice Girl, afraid to stand on her own legs and give her own life a chance. You should read something like No More Mr Nice Guy and such. Beyond the cloak of UN-SELFISHNESS....is the Fear as real reason for all these set backs in life. Strong happy people are better at helping others anyway;)

 

 

 

Yep I agree. But the Bad Boy is certainly more sexual than Nice Guy.

Azzhole - yes I agree. I already posted something about the difference bad-boy vs Evil azzhole

 

 

Actually Its pretty much why is he so succesful with women (some, not you).

 

Bad boy - imature, cant hadle his emotions - beats women, robs banks

Azzhole - evil creep - tortures women, runs/uses bad boys

Nice guy - imature, surpresses his emotions - supplicates to women, has a job

Mr. Right - mature, controls his emotions- loves women (not like his mother or enemy), leads

All other men - oscilating between these

 

Hang on, let me get this straight.

 

Love and loyalty are weaknesses?

 

Taking on an unexpected, challenging task and mastering it makes a person afraid and unable to stand on their own two feet?

 

Wanting sex makes a person bad?

 

How do you define success with women, notches on a bedpost? Number on the Hot Babe scale of all conquests? Being able to break a woman's resistance down?

 

And you wonder why you have problems with dating!

 

The bottom line, in your case, seems to be that you don't want good girls, the ones who think partying is a waste of time and can see a responsibility through. You're not interested in that. You also seem to have some deep-seated reservations about your own sex drive, that having it makes you bad and that women who will engage in it with you are also bad.

 

The bottom line about the nice guy isn't that he's less sexual than the bad boy. It's that he hates and fears sex, both his own drive and the women who are willing to have sex. That's why he whines and supplicates. He thinks he's asking women to do something for him that isn't in their best interest, and it doesn't set him apart from the bad boy at all. It's an attitude they have in common, only the bad boy has found ways to justify being a brute and a bully. The nice guy hasn't done that--yet. I strongly suspect that 99% of the nice guys who complain about women liking bad boys are working themselves up to being bad boys.

 

As long as a man believes that sex is somehow bad and degrading to women, he will be trapped in the nice guy/bad boy dichotomy.

  • Author
Posted
Good guys (to avoid the overloaded "nice guy" term) - Kind of confused here, so doormats aside, how would you differentiate between a good guy with social skills vs. a bad boy? The good guy is less exciting and less appealing? In what ways? What makes a socially well adjusted good guy lose to a bad boy? Or do they?

 

While I think D-Lish is putting an honest effort into it, she did not really distinquish the difference between qualities of a Good guy and a Bad guy. Not one example of the qualities she gave for a bad boy were uncommon in good guys. But she still calls them "Bad" guys. So they must be the oposite of good, but how so? The only thing one can conclude is they must be intrinsically bad, dark or evil, right?

  • Author
Posted
Interesting. I think its true. In other thread...I had an idea why is that women are attracted to Bad Boys aka Bold Boys - I came to conclusion that they posses no doubts. And it is appealing because it is what wins fights too (as in your post with predators). And becuse it signifies No Doubts about myself - Good life with me.

 

What is wrong is...they have no doubts about themselves because they are soft in the head - they dont think about problems and/or they were taught to not show fear(doubts) about anything as kids (abusive parents, rough childhod). So when the problems eventually comes they burst in anger.

 

 

I think we are getting near to the bottom of this. A Bad boy is someone who is self centered and doesn't think about other people. But isn't that the definition of a bad or evil person? These people are capable of anything in certain circumstances.

Posted
Hang on, let me get this straight.

 

Love and loyalty are weaknesses?

 

As in?

 

Taking on an unexpected, challenging task and mastering it makes a person afraid and unable to stand on their own two feet?

It depends. Generally it is very nice to do these things. I dont despise Mother Theresa. But if she came and asked Why I cant find any decent guys? Well, I would tell her the same I told you. Take it easy Theresa, you are great but you just need to help yourself for a change, if you want a decent guy to help you with the sick kids.

 

Wanting sex makes a person bad?

No. He is called Bad becuse he do Bad things like beating his GF or robbing bank. Sex is not one of them.

 

How do you define success with women, notches on a bedpost? Number on the Hot Babe scale of all conquests? Being able to break a woman's resistance down?

How you come to that conclusion?

 

And you wonder why you have problems with dating!

I must have piss you off pretty good with my nitpicking on your unselfishness. I know it hurts. But it is necessary when new person is born. Im not judging you or disrespect you, really.

 

The bottom line, in your case, seems to be that you don't want good girls, the ones who think partying is a waste of time and can see a responsibility through. You're not interested in that. You also seem to have some deep-seated reservations about your own sex drive, that having it makes you bad and that women who will engage in it with you are also bad.

You certainly wont get a job as psychologist....maybe PSYOPS :) ouch.

Where did you get this from anyway?

Are you saying Im an azzhole evil creep with small pickle? Wanna fight or what? Lets go outside, Im gonna....wait....Im Nice guy....nope....who am I? Its your fault I dont know who I am now.:p

 

I know I can piss off some people really good, especially when I try to help them.....so I forgive you :)

 

The bottom line about the nice guy isn't that he's less sexual than the bad boy. It's that he hates and fears sex, both his own drive and the women who are willing to have sex. That's why he whines and supplicates. He thinks he's asking women to do something for him that isn't in their best interest, and it doesn't set him apart from the bad boy at all. It's an attitude they have in common, only the bad boy has found ways to justify being a brute and a bully. The nice guy hasn't done that--yet. I strongly suspect that 99% of the nice guys who complain about women liking bad boys are working themselves up to being bad boys.

Excellent. I absolutely agree. I actually wrote the same thing in some other thread....that Pussies (nice guys) are very close to Azzholes(Bad boys), one is passive, one is aggressive but they are driven by the same insecurities and so on.......

 

One think I dont agree however. When someone despises sex, he is less sexual apparently, dont you think? At least on the outside. Nice guy want slap you on the azz and such, Bad boy will sure do that.

 

As long as a man believes that sex is somehow bad and degrading to women, he will be trapped in the nice guy/bad boy dichotomy.

I dont think bad boys think women dont like sex. You are wrong here. Nice guys, sure, thats one of their most important traits. Trying to appear asexual.

Posted

The bottom line about the nice guy isn't that he's less sexual than the bad boy. It's that he hates and fears sex, both his own drive and the women who are willing to have sex. That's why he whines and supplicates. He thinks he's asking women to do something for him that isn't in their best interest, and it doesn't set him apart from the bad boy at all. It's an attitude they have in common, only the bad boy has found ways to justify being a brute and a bully. The nice guy hasn't done that--yet. I strongly suspect that 99% of the nice guys who complain about women liking bad boys are working themselves up to being bad boys.

 

As long as a man believes that sex is somehow bad and degrading to women, he will be trapped in the nice guy/bad boy dichotomy.

 

Some good points, but I'll throw in my 2 cents as a mid-life "nice guy":

 

I don't know about the hate, but when it comes to sex, there is a lot of fear involved. After all, the "nice guy" bases a LOT of his self-worth on his ability to attract women and have quality sex (like the bad boys do, so he thinks). With this much pressure on himself, things often don't go well. Frustration and desperation lead to the whining and begging. The mindset is not that sex is degrading to women, it's the fear that women will consider sex with "me" as degrading.

 

If a "nice guy" develops into a "bad boy", he considers that a vast improvement -- even if both mindsets are really two sides of the same coin. The "nice guy" reasons that bad boys attract lots of women and sex opportunities. Also, it's considered an honorable challenge for a woman to find the "nice" inside the bad boy, while women often pass before even trying to find any "bad" inside the nice guy.

Posted
I think we are getting near to the bottom of this. A Bad boy is someone who is self centered and doesn't think about other people. But isn't that the definition of a bad or evil person? These people are capable of anything in certain circumstances.

 

Yeah, I think we're getting close, so to me so far with all these different posts I think:

 

- Good guy goes I want you and I want to use me to make your life better

- Bad boy goes I want you and I want to use you to make my life better

- Playa goes I want you because I need 1 more girl to hit my weekly quota

 

Yes? No?

 

it's considered an honorable challenge for a woman to find the "nice" inside the bad boy, while women often pass before even trying to find any "bad" inside the nice guy.

 

Yup, excellent way of putting it.

Posted
Some good points, but I'll throw in my 2 cents as a mid-life "nice guy":

 

I don't know about the hate, but when it comes to sex, there is a lot of fear involved. After all, the "nice guy" bases a LOT of his self-worth on his ability to attract women and have quality sex (like the bad boys do, so he thinks). With this much pressure on himself, things often don't go well. Frustration and desperation lead to the whining and begging. The mindset is not that sex is degrading to women, it's the fear that women will consider sex with "me" as degrading.

 

If a "nice guy" develops into a "bad boy", he considers that a vast improvement -- even if both mindsets are really two sides of the same coin. The "nice guy" reasons that bad boys attract lots of women and sex opportunities. Also, it's considered an honorable challenge for a woman to find the "nice" inside the bad boy, while women often pass before even trying to find any "bad" inside the nice guy.

 

The thing is, this isn't women's fault or problem. This is an issue that's existing entirely inside the man's own head. We're not doing this to men. Men are doing it to themselves, and on a pretty grand scale, too. This kind of thing was in the background last I looked, but it appears to have gone viral since.

 

As far as I can tell, women are responding by dropping out, and it's a reasonable stance because this is a problem we can do nothing to solve. The Fonz ignores input from any woman who doesn't fit his formula, and generalizes from the input of any woman who does, even if that women states clearly that she's speaking only for herself. Daniel tries to pressure and/or guilt-trip me into becoming something that, from what I can tell, is just easier for him to influence and thus bed. Not a better person, but a more malleable person.

 

Are things much of an improvement IRL? Somewhat, but not very.

 

The thing is, sex and women aren't anything to be afraid of. Women don't explode at orgasm, nor do they develop blood poisoning upon penetration. Our priorities are a bit different, but that doesn't make us irrational or dangerous, just people that might need to be negotiated with.

 

Are there some unpleasant women out there? Of course. We're not The Borg, in a good way or a bad way. Dealing with them is just like dealing with unpleasant men. You realize that what they're doing or saying has nothing to do you with. You don't teach people how to treat you; that's pure Dr. Phil and it's bullcrap. People make that decision themselves, using criteria that almost never have anything to do with you personally unless your behavior is outside the realm of common courtesy.

 

As I said, compassion, yes. Patience, no. But I can't fix this, and I don't come from a demographic that has ever subscribed to the idea that fixing a bad boy is honorable.

 

From my vantage point, it's a bit like watching a train wreck in slow motion.

Posted

[quote=Elemental;1599555

Those are called anecdotes, and do you know what those are worth in real science?

 

That's right. Nothing. But they can be used to sell things, because a lot of people are just about that gullible.

 

Get off your soapbox - and never lecture me ,lady.

 

There is NO "science" to draw on re "bad boy" attraction .

This is a forum of debate and discusssion, and it is entirely appropriate for contributors to offer their personal experiences, even MEN, as much as that must irk you.

You need to get over your haughty sense of being "right" . You need an encounter with a "bad boy " to get your juices flowing.

  • Author
Posted

Elemental, you are recking my thread with nonsense. It's obvious you're not a male so stop saying things like, "good guys fear and hate sex". Good guys are sometimes shamed into believeing that sex is wrong, or it's wrong to come on to a girl sexually. This isn't fear or hating sex. This is them trying to please people who misguided himo r by following adive and teachings that don't work. This thread is all about how a guy should be so as to not be misguided. In other words to understand attraction so that a guy can get what he wants. The "good" guy wants the same thing as the "Bad" boy he's just not going about it in away that causes attraction, the necesary ingredient to get anything he wants.

Posted
Luke Skywalker = Hero, chivalrous, integrity, honesty, ... no sex life

 

Han Solo = was in it for the money, a smuggler, criminal involved with the seedy side of life...definitely a bad boy, then changed a bit and became heroic (oohh a womans perfect dream) he got laid

 

 

These archetypes were not by accident and there's no doubt that the girls were way more into Han than Luke in 'that' way.

 

You got it.

I agree wholeheartedly.:love:

Han was the man

  • Author
Posted
You got it.

I agree wholeheartedly.:love:

Han was the man

And if I remember Star Wars correctly Hans was a former outlaw and was helping just for the reward. If there was no reward outside of doing it for principle he wouldn't have helped.

Posted
The thing is, this isn't women's fault or problem. This is an issue that's existing entirely inside the man's own head. We're not doing this to men. Men are doing it to themselves, and on a pretty grand scale, too. This kind of thing was in the background last I looked, but it appears to have gone viral since.

 

OMG! D-Lish is a man??

 

Anyway not to pick on D-Lish, but she seems like a pretty normal woman that admits she's into bad boys. And I have a RL friend that comes to mind immediately that admits the same thing.

 

Also you do realize maybe this world is not as homogeneous as you think?

 

There are many posts by women saying how evil men are and they're cheaters. Well, I've never cheated, but I'm not going to go post in some "why do men cheat" thread and say men never cheat, it's in the women's own imagination. Just because I'm not that way, doesn't mean other men aren't that way (Not to compare women that are into bad boys with cheaters -- unintentional, no correlation).

 

Also like minded people tend to group together. Your friends are probably like you, not into bad boys. Don't take this the wrong way, I'm not invalidating what you think, I'm just saying have a bigger vision and you'll see there are others types of people out there, not everyone is like you or your friends.

 

I've even noticed that dating culture is different from area to area too. I'm in Southern California, the infamous O.C. There are a lot of superficial materialistic fake boob perfect tan expertly applied make-up type women out here. They look good, damn they look good. But they'll look at your watch, your shoes and your car first before they'll look at you. I bet you're not like that either, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

Posted
While I think D-Lish is putting an honest effort into it, she did not really distinquish the difference between qualities of a Good guy and a Bad guy. Not one example of the qualities she gave for a bad boy were uncommon in good guys. But she still calls them "Bad" guys. So they must be the oposite of good, but how so? The only thing one can conclude is they must be intrinsically bad, dark or evil, right?

 

 

Hi again.

 

I guess what I am getting at is that there are shades of grey we are starting to sift through here to establish differences.

 

I appreciate that you are understanding that when I say I enjoy guys with a bit of a naughty side... that doesn't mean I want to be treated badly. I merely want to be challenged and stimulated.

 

I'm going to go back to my statement that what really stands out about a "bad boy" is his essence of being unapologetically male. A bad boy isn't really "bad".... he has an air of naughtiness about him - he's confident in his maleness... but not arrogant. He really does love women, which is why he doesn't resort to being an a-hole to get what he wants.

 

I'm going to confuse you more. A bad boy and a nice guy can be the same person. We're just paying too much attention to the word "bad" in the label.

 

The term "Bad boy" to me doesn't actually mean an "evil guy"... it's just terminology.

 

Okay- I like the Luke skywalker analogy when trying to use an example of a "nice guy" that doesn't get the girl (his sister...ok, ew). Funny.

 

Han Solo is an example of a bad boy that is also a nice guy. He's sexy and confident- doesn't take any BS...and he challenges his women. That's where the sexual chemistry comes into play. But he isn't a mean guy- nor is he a sleazy figure. You know he'd always keep you on your toes- you wouldn't get bored hanging out with him.

 

There are various levels of nice guys. There are doormats- men that will never stand up to you and probably not "for you". I could never be attracted to this type.

 

Nice guys can have a wild side to them. They can be charming and naughty and confident- yet still be respectful and sensitive. Confidence is the key... it really is.

 

I'll write more- I know I haven't answered everything, just going to eat dinner.

Posted

OMG! D-Lish is a man??

 

Hey!! I'm not a man!! But what's the point of coming on an anonymous forum and not being honest right?

lol.

 

And Fonz- Han Solo, if you remember, came back in the end because his conscience kicked in. He really did make the Wookie proud.

 

I think we have established the diff between an a-hole/player and a BB....

 

When someone asks- why don't the nice guys get the girls.... what are they asking? It is probably a good time to define what someone means by "nice guy". There are various levels of those!

 

Nice guy is a blanket term covering a lot of men.... so break it down.

 

I am telling you not to get stuck on the word "bad" in the label "bad boy".

It makes it especially confusing when I am trying to convey that there is such an entity as a "nice bad boy".

  • Author
Posted

D-Lish, while I still think you haven't really answered my fundamental qustion, I give you props for coming closer than any other girl has that I can think of. I might get around to discussing a little more in depth some of your points later on. you Bad boy Kitten.

Posted (edited)

OK... go back about 20 years. Me and my best friend ... at the time. We're between 20 - 30 years old. We were about as opposite as it gets and very much the epitome of the two archetypes we're discussing here. So here's a bit of soul baring...

 

Me: Pretty typical "nice guy" - Sexually frustrated at the time and not terribly outgoing. However very open, honest, trustworthy etc.. IOW every womans 'friend'. Didn't know how to read womens signals etc etc Didn't have many girlfriends

 

Him : Very typical "bad boy" - Almost always had a girlfriend or two. Hooked up regularly. Very often was with really quality women... thing is he could never be satisfied... he would cheat on them. Yet they kept coming back for more until they would finally have enough of it. He was emotionally exciting but irresponsible and not trustworthy. Some scrapes with the law etc etc Not 'evil' but definitly messed up, immature and self centered.

 

Now fast forward .. we're around 40...

 

Me : Done OK, good job stayed near my family. Got married but now divorced... (long story... nice guy/bad girl relationship). Finding my confidence all over again...

 

Him : Drug addiction has really taken it's toll on him. He's not my freind anymore. Couldn't take the lies and the realization that all he did was use me to forward his own needs up to and including theft. He's been in and out of rehab, jail and jobs... I was surprised to hear he was still alive. There was nothing else I could do to help him....

 

The real kicker of it all?

 

When I first met my buddy I had a huge crush on this girl... well waddaya know he hooked up with her not long after and they were together for a few years ... To this day the only time she gets in touch with me is to know what this guy is up to... lesson learned... my life would have been a lot less trouble if I hadn't become his 'friend' because he was a user. He used me and others to further his own needs regardless of the damage. User could very well be the best definition of a 'bad boy' ... there's a reason it's 'boy' and not 'man'. A lot of bad boys never grow up...

Edited by sumdude
Posted
OK... go back about 20 years. Me and my best freind ... at the time. We're freinds between 20 - 30 years old. We were about as opposite as it gets and very much the epitome of the two archetypoes were discussing here.

 

Me: Pretty typical "nice guy" - Sexually frustrated and not terribly outgpoing. However very open, honest, trustworthy etc.. IOW very womans 'friend'. Didn't know how to read womens signals etc etc Didn't have many girlfriends

 

Him : Very typical "bad boy" - Almost always had a girlfriend or two. Hokked up regularly. Very often was with really quality women... thing is he could never be satisfied... he would cheat on them. Yet they kept coming back for more until they would finally have enough of it. He was emotionally exciting but irresponsible and not trustworthy. Some scrapes with the law etc etc Not 'evil' but definitly messed up, immature and self centered.

 

Now fast forward .. we're around 40...

 

Me : Done OK, good job stayed near my family. Got married but now divorced... (long story... nice guy/bad girl relationship). Finding my confidence all over again...

 

Him : Drug addiction has really taken it's toll on him. He's not my freind anymore. Couldn't take the lies and the realization that all he did was use me to forward his own needs up to and including theft. He's been in and out of rehab, jail and jobs... I was surprised to hear he was still alive. There was nothing else I could do to help him....

 

I believe, nice guys try to appear mature in that responsible-daddy way, meanwhile bad boys try to appear mature in that macho way. They are both immature. Basically because they are afraid to face their fears. One was taught that to be appreciated he has to be nice, calm and responsible. The other get his needed attention from running around house naked, shouting obscenities and basicaly making his parents mad (if he was nice and calm, they wouldnt even know he was there).

 

I dont know how to cure bad boys instead of army drill (brake them and form them again). Nice guys need some good role models. And it cant be their father - he is responsible family man. I think they need some kind of quest or trial to prove themselves as man. Hunt down a lion or something. And they need a visit to brothel - to see other side of women mentality/sexuality instead of asexual mother, sister, aunts and other girls hiding their sex-drive.

 

Charcters in movies are fine but they are too away from reality.

Posted (edited)
I believe, nice guys try to appear mature in that responsible-daddy way, meanwhile bad boys try to appear mature in that macho way. They are both immature. Basically because they are afraid to face their fears. One was taught that to be appreciated he has to be nice, calm and responsible. The other get his needed attention from running around house naked, shouting obscenities and basicaly making his parents mad (if he was nice and calm, they wouldnt even know he was there).

 

I'll agree to a point but it's much more complicated. Has so much to do with childhood experiences and upbringing. But yeah... it's all about fear.

 

I dont know how to cure bad boys instead of army drill (brake them and form them again). Nice guys need some good role models. And it cant be their father - he is responsible family man. I think they need some kind of quest or trial to prove themselves as man. Hunt down a lion or something. And they need a visit to brothel - to see other side of women mentality/sexuality instead of asexual mother, sister, aunts and other girls hiding their sex-drive.

 

Seems to me that men who were older siblings and had little sisters tend to be the most comfortable and successful with women . Those who are the youngest with older possibly overbearing sisters are more the 'pleaser' types.. wonder if there's any data on that?

 

Charcters in movies are fine but they are too away from reality.

 

They are a good touchstone however because they are well known to everyone.

Edited by sumdude
×
×
  • Create New...