DanielMadr Posted April 1, 2008 Posted April 1, 2008 Ideally, it would be praise based upon their accomplishments. If the girl works hard at earning good grades in school, or has tackled a major job that took a great deal of effort... even if she's not doing that well, its the praise for the effort involved that is important. I'd just like to point out that men aren't helping matters. You (men in general) will bend over backwards for good looking girls. You reinforce that what REALLY matters in this world is how hot a girl is. Especially in the teens and 20's. No guy brags to his friends about how his new girlfriend has won a scholarship for her hard work in college. Women hear this. We aren't stupid. We pick up that what is important to a guy at that age is looks. So we cater to that. For our effort, we expect certain things in return. Either that's the guys looks, his money, or how a man will treat us (depending on what the woman is looking for). It irks me that men will get on here and bytch about how the hot women are selfish, materialistic, blah blah.. then the guy goes out to the bar, looks for the girl with the tanned skin, professionally styled hair, great makeup, and clothes that cost hundreds of dollars to make her look her absolute best. The ones that complain the most seem to be attracted to the type of women who have invested a great deal of time and effort into presenting an attractive outer appearance. The guy gets pissed that the women are shallow. Yet EVERYTHING about this girl has screamed who she was from the moment he laid eyes on her. I don't know.. it just seems so stupid that men focus so much on how a woman looks to the exclusion of some incredibly wonderful women out there. Then the man gets pissed that the hottie wanted someone that wasn't him. He whines that its unfair. To me, its comparable to seeing a really expensive sports car, and then throwing a tanturm when you can't afford it. Its juvenile. Women are confronted every day with the knowledge that men value how you look. The better you look, the higher your value to men. Either pay up, or stop whinning about it. Most of us couldn't afford the really expensive sports car so we drive average cars. Or we hoof it where we want to go. These men complaining are saying they deserve the expensive car, and won't even consider the average ones. Then get pissed that they're walking. Its not that I disagree, World is such an unfair place. Maybe girls shouldnt care that much about what other strange people appreciate or at least dont let it ruin/change their personality/attitude. I know it is wrong for men to praise hot bodies and beautiful faces only, but lets face it - we really do appreciate it very much. Not only this of course but it is still 1. is she hot? 2. does she have good personality? And as long as personality is hard to imagine/describe, we talk about hot bodies even more. But Im sure guys do say things: she is pretty smart girl or she is really kind person. And Im sure that any guy boasting about his hot girlfriend will be cut short with other guy boasting about not so hot girlfriend but with really warm personality. So lets not see it that black Im not so sure about carreer, but Im sure hot brain surgeon or nurse will beat a stripper any time. You gave me half of an answer probably. Maybe some girls would be much happier if their father complimanted them not only for their grades but for their women beauty/qualities too. That I had in mind. What it is appropriate and what is not?
Mary3 Posted April 2, 2008 Posted April 2, 2008 Lino I am actually attracted to the bad boy look. The strong frame and tatoos ( while not required ) make the guy look tough. It sounds like you are average in the financial department and could not afford a $ 300,000 sports car. Hardly anyone can ... You said you were not nice to girls you are interested. I can promise you that if you are a mean jerk you wont interest her for long. Women can be attracted to the bad boy ( Me its more the looks of the strong bad boy ) but not the attitude . I once was with a guy who had all you described but for ME he had a soft heart. Don't ever lose that ! If you are looking for a hottie for a night or two , you can find alot of that anywhere. If you are looking for a hottie who wants to treat you good and you do the same thing back , then you can get something more lasting. I say again * acting * like a jerk is a temporary thing for women because we see right through it . Why did you have to lose the caring part of being a man ? Thats BIG for women. Do you care ? Big Big. ! Honestly for me a small short guy is not attractive . A really fat guy is not attractive. A guy with a hot temper and a fist is not attractive. What is attractive is someone who is warm inside . I can feel it and there's so much more to go into but don't think you can't show your real side to a woman. Something is very wrong there...
Cobra_X30 Posted April 2, 2008 Posted April 2, 2008 I wouldn't call myself handsome as such but I am good looking & naturally aggressive in appearance. Add to that my tattoos & build which ends up with me constantly attracting the same types of women - the ones which go for typically bad guys. They're usually pretty hot & carry a lot of attitude & are attracted to me for my appearance but after a while they realize I'm not how they imagined & leave. I guess they probably also like the way I treat them initially as a nice change to what they're used to but really they don't appreciate it. No I don't pick & choose the girl, they are usually the ones who find me. This was all nice when all I wanted was flings as a younger bloke but I've wanted more for a while now & these types of girls don't want that with me. It sounds like your letting the women come to you... that says your playing a more passive role. If I might make a suggestion or two. Make sure you do more of the up front work... the "chasing" so to speak. Once you have cemented her interest, then sit back and play a little harder to get. If you follow this a bit you may up your success rate a bit. Also, take a look at the women your getting involved with. I realized pretty young that my natural inclinations were absolutely terrible. The first two girls I had a crush on pretty much went nuts. One stole a car and went to juvie, the other shaved her head tattooed her face and got knocked up at 13.
FormerNiceGuy Posted April 2, 2008 Posted April 2, 2008 It irks me that men will get on here and bytch about how the hot women are selfish, materialistic, blah blah.. then the guy goes out to the bar, looks for the girl with the tanned skin, professionally styled hair, great makeup, and clothes that cost hundreds of dollars to make her look her absolute best. The ones that complain the most seem to be attracted to the type of women who have invested a great deal of time and effort into presenting an attractive outer appearance. The guy gets pissed that the women are shallow. Yet EVERYTHING about this girl has screamed who she was from the moment he laid eyes on her. I don't know.. it just seems so stupid that men focus so much on how a woman looks to the exclusion of some incredibly wonderful women out there. Then the man gets pissed that the hottie wanted someone that wasn't him. He whines that its unfair. To me, its comparable to seeing a really expensive sports car, and then throwing a tanturm when you can't afford it. Its juvenile. Women are confronted every day with the knowledge that men value how you look. The better you look, the higher your value to men. Either pay up, or stop whinning about it. Most of us couldn't afford the really expensive sports car so we drive average cars. Or we hoof it where we want to go. These men complaining are saying they deserve the expensive car, and won't even consider the average ones. Then get pissed that they're walking. It is because a man uses his eyes and his thoughts to judge the value of women . Whereas a woman deems personality and emotion as more valuable. And so the man goes for the beautiful angel with the heart of a demon.
lino Posted April 2, 2008 Posted April 2, 2008 You said you were not nice to girls you are interested. I can promise you that if you are a mean jerk you wont interest her for long. Women can be attracted to the bad boy ( Me its more the looks of the strong bad boy ) but not the attitude . I once was with a guy who had all you described but for ME he had a soft heart. Don't ever lose that ! Well, as I said in an earlier post of mine in this thread I've been seeing a girl for 6 months now, who I'm not a bastard to but I don't do anything nice at all for her & she still wants to be with me. Before when I thought I was doing all the right things the longest a girl stayed with me was for 3 months. I appreciate what you say but I'm happy to continue being like this if things are going better for me because before I wasn't getting anywhere. If you are looking for a hottie for a night or two , you can find alot of that anywhere. If you are looking for a hottie who wants to treat you good and you do the same thing back , then you can get something more lasting. I say again * acting * like a jerk is a temporary thing for women because we see right through it . 1 night stands don't interest me anymore. I wouldn't say I act like a jerk & of course things may just be temporary but at least it's better than before. Why did you have to lose the caring part of being a man ? Thats BIG for women. Do you care ? Big Big. ! Why did I lose it? Simply because I felt totally unappreciated for what I did & it didn't get me anywhere. Like if you keep offering a starving person food only to have them continually throw it back in your face, you eventually lose the motivation to offer the food. Then after enough times of seeing & knowing other guys who did nothing for their girls only to have them worship them in return pretty much sealed it for me. Honestly for me a small short guy is not attractive . A really fat guy is not attractive. A guy with a hot temper and a fist is not attractive. Most women won't find the 1st two of your examples attractive. Though you may not find a guy with a temper & fists attractive I personally know many girls that do & I've seen it to be that way ever since school. What is attractive is someone who is warm inside . I can feel it and there's so much more to go into but don't think you can't show your real side to a woman. Something is very wrong there... Believe me, I once too believed this to be generally true but yeah something is definitely wrong as are many things in this world. All one can do is deal with it & IMO I'm now doing so in a better way than I was before. I showed many girls my real side only to get nowhere by doing so. There's only so much of that I can take It sounds like your letting the women come to you... that says your playing a more passive role. If I might make a suggestion or two. Make sure you do more of the up front work... the "chasing" so to speak. Once you have cemented her interest, then sit back and play a little harder to get. If you follow this a bit you may up your success rate a bit. Thanks mate, I appreciate your advice. What you write is usually interesting to read I do plenty of chasing myself too. Both with the types who usually come to me & with the types who don't. Usually with the latter I don't have much success. Also how would I know when/if I've cemented her interest? In the past I've thought some of my exes were definitely interested but I was totally wrong. Even the girl I'm with now seems very interested but I'd bet if I start doing nice things for her she'll start to feel too comfortable & eventually leave. Also, take a look at the women your getting involved with. I realized pretty young that my natural inclinations were absolutely terrible. The first two girls I had a crush on pretty much went nuts. One stole a car and went to juvie, the other shaved her head tattooed her face and got knocked up at 13. Well I've never experienced stuff like that with any of my past girls thankfully Can you explain more about what you mean with the part I bolded please?
Walk Posted April 2, 2008 Posted April 2, 2008 It is because a man uses his eyes and his thoughts to judge the value of women . Whereas a woman deems personality and emotion as more valuable. And so the man goes for the beautiful angel with the heart of a demon. Right. So then it's a matter of supply and demand, correct? Men value beauty, women know this. The "cost" of a beautiful woman will be much greater than that of the average girl. Men get irked with women because women are innundated with the message that beauty is highly important to men. If a guy wants the hottie and can't afford her, then he needs to stop whinning that he can't get her. Instead, guys make up elaborate schemes to pretend they're self-confident and have what a beautiful woman wants. And then still gets pissed when women see through that, and still don't want the guy. Yet they insist that the women in their lives have to be up to a certain standard of attractiveness, or he couldn't possibly have a relationship with her. Yet he offers... a sick and twisted brain, bad breath, and still lives with mommy and daddy. I'm generalizing, but men seem to think they deserve "the best" even if they're gross, worthless pieces o' crap. You guys have an unnerving ability to see yourselves as real catches even if you're lugging around extra pounds, have a face only your mother could love, and can barely pay your bills.
Taramere Posted April 2, 2008 Posted April 2, 2008 (edited) You (men in general) will bend over backwards for good looking girls. You reinforce that what REALLY matters in this world is how hot a girl is. Especially in the teens and 20's. No guy brags to his friends about how his new girlfriend has won a scholarship for her hard work in college. Women hear this. We aren't stupid. We pick up that what is important to a guy at that age is looks. So we cater to that. For our effort, we expect certain things in return. Either that's the guys looks, his money, or how a man will treat us (depending on what the woman is looking for). Very true. Silent Type said Nor for that matter do I know guys with other traits society looks down on as having attractive gfs - maybe run of the mill average, maybe slightly above average...but not 9s or 10s. I'm never quite sure what 9 or 10 is supposed to look like, but I'm guessing that 10 is a fashion model and 9 is a catalogue/glamour model or vice versa depending on whether you're focusing on aesthetic beauty or sex appeal. Obviously women who look like that are unlikely to settle for men who have little to offer other than the belief that they're a good person. How many people don't think that about themselves? For me, a jerk (or wanker, as the term I'd use) is simply someone I don't like or respect. An irritant. It seems to me that from a man's perspective, the jerk is the bogey man/enemy who kicks sand in a weaker face, tempts his girlfriend away...has a bigger dick, a better job, more beautiful girlfriends and whose primary reason for existing would appear to involve making other men feel inferior. It must feel great for a weaker guy when that man slaps him on the back (positive stroke - "we're buddies you and I") and says those golden words: "I was once like you. I was once a nice guy too..." Isn't that just what Brad Pitt does in Fight Club? One minute he's kicking the crap out of other men. Next minute he's sympathising with them for not being movie stars and relating to that as though he's something less than a hot, successful movie star himself. Not many people will want to be (or be with) the weeping fat man Meat Loaf played. Men want to hang out with Tyler Durden because he's fun, stimulating, attractive and they feel that if they spend time around him some of that magic might rub off on them. Welcome, guys, to the reason women want to sleep with him. For the same reasons that you want to hang out with him. The drawback is, of course, that that level of unshakeable confidence and fearlessness is probably not possible for anyone who isn't a psychopath. This is where Caliguy should come in with his "guide to being a balanced guy." Or how to be interesting and reasonably manly without running amok over your own and other people's mental health in the process. Edited April 2, 2008 by Taramere
TheFonz Posted April 2, 2008 Posted April 2, 2008 Right. So then it's a matter of supply and demand, correct? Men value beauty, women know this. The "cost" of a beautiful woman will be much greater than that of the average girl. Men get irked with women because women are innundated with the message that beauty is highly important to men. If a guy wants the hottie and can't afford her, then he needs to stop whinning that he can't get her. Instead, guys make up elaborate schemes to pretend they're self-confident and have what a beautiful woman wants. And then still gets pissed when women see through that, and still don't want the guy. Yet they insist that the women in their lives have to be up to a certain standard of attractiveness, or he couldn't possibly have a relationship with her. Yet he offers... a sick and twisted brain, bad breath, and still lives with mommy and daddy. I'm generalizing, but men seem to think they deserve "the best" even if they're gross, worthless pieces o' crap. You guys have an unnerving ability to see yourselves as real catches even if you're lugging around extra pounds, have a face only your mother could love, and can barely pay your bills. The problem with all that is we men see the biggest loser guys with the most beautiful woman. And we see quality guys with not so beautiful women or nobody. When women seem to have no real standard or objective critria that everyone can put to, you'll get men thinking, hey maybe I got what she wants. Read my thread, "Theory and observation many men have".
TheFonz Posted April 2, 2008 Posted April 2, 2008 The drawback is, of course, that that level of unshakeable confidence and fearlessness is probably not possible for anyone who isn't a psychopath. Thi fits the theory in my other thread.. Psychopaths attract women with their confidence, normal men aren't confident enough.
Cobra_X30 Posted April 2, 2008 Posted April 2, 2008 Thanks mate, I appreciate your advice. What you write is usually interesting to read I do plenty of chasing myself too. Both with the types who usually come to me & with the types who don't. Usually with the latter I don't have much success. Also how would I know when/if I've cemented her interest? In the past I've thought some of my exes were definitely interested but I was totally wrong. Even the girl I'm with now seems very interested but I'd bet if I start doing nice things for her she'll start to feel too comfortable & eventually leave. Well I've never experienced stuff like that with any of my past girls thankfully Can you explain more about what you mean with the part I bolded please? That's good, I mean it seems like your kind of similar to me in that you've been around the block a few times. This may be a touch controversial, but really once you get something physical going with her... that's when you can be fairly sure that you have her interest. There are some women out there who can put emotions aside like that... but they seem to be fairly few and far between. Actually, it's an interesting point. When your dating a woman who is actively looking at other men, the farther you go with her physically the better your chances of being the guy she picks. That's one reason why "nice guys" tend to lose out. They often tend to think bieng respectful and waiting is the way to go. Anyway, your problem is more than likely different. I'd guess that what you give off as a first impression doesn't reflect your personality well. That pushes the women you want away... and attracts the crazy ones. Which is what I meant with the bolded part. There are certain personality types we tend to be attracted to in women. I naturally go after adventure seekers. So, I want you to just keep in mind that a man will never be more attractive to a woman than when she has to keep you!
Ocean-Blue Posted April 2, 2008 Posted April 2, 2008 Hi guys i'm new to the forums, but i'm a long time student into the seducing realm. I just have to say that FormerNiceGuy advice is spot on, and I can tell that he really took the time, and studied this stuff. Wether he tried or took the time to try his advice is questionable, but I on the other hand have tried it and I can tell you that it works. In order to engage into a relationship there are three phases of seducing. {Attraction>Comfort>Seduce} > Relationship It have nothing to do about been a nice guy or been a jerk. It have everything to do with attraction, comfort, and seducing. Jerks are better at creating attraction (because they demonstrate HV[Higher Value], and they spark interest) then nice guys. Now things that demonstrate higher value, are money, story's, don't give a f*ck attitude... All things that jerks are great at! Also girls might be attracted to you, but they won't go into a relationship with you unless their comfortable with you. It is our job as men, to create a comfortable, and favorable environnement for women. The problem is that a lot of nice guys create a lot of comfort, but they NEVER try to create attraction, and let's not forget the whole seducing part. Nice guys never make a move, they always hope the women make the first move, while the jerk will make a move without any care for her feelings. The good guy on the other hand, takes into consideration her feelings, and he will "create" the right oppertunity for a seducing environnement when attraction, and comfort as been established. JERKS (think of themselves [controlled by testosterone]) Good Guy (thinks for the both of you [controlls his testosterone]) Nice guy (thinks of treating the girl like gold, until she rewards you [is ashamed of his testosterones, the girl needs to make the first move, you just need to treat her really nice until she does]) The good guy is the best guy! I agree with this post. Essentially, there needs to be a balance. Frankly, the "nice guys" who complain are too lazy to really do anything about the situation. Jerks have access to women but on a short term basis. They rarely can make a LTR work because their little tricks can only take them so far.
Taramere Posted April 2, 2008 Posted April 2, 2008 (edited) Thi fits the theory in my other thread.. Psychopaths attract women with their confidence, normal men aren't confident enough. You might have a point. The psychopath takes to an extreme certain qualities or traits that are traditionally deemed manly. Courage, confidence and a lack of empathy. I do read predominantly male message boards from time to time, and although I find this whole masculinist thing a little dreary - not to mention quite ludicrous at times, I can appreciate the dilemma men find themselves in. If you decide that the opposite sex requires you to demonstrate the behaviour of a psychologically f*cked individual, should that be what you then aspire to? If a psychopath is now the standard, what do you do about that irritating conscience and human sense of compassion you can't seem to quite lose? Oh God...are you an emo??? I don't know what the answers to those dilemmas are. I'm aware of the popularity of seduction manuals and self help books, and I guess if men find these are genuinely making their lives better then who's to argue with that? I do think that if someone is genuinely confused or lacking confidence to the point where they're very depressed and developing skewed and exceptionally negative perceptions, then a little more than a pop psychology seduction manual/philosophy is probably in order. Edited April 2, 2008 by Taramere
Cobra_X30 Posted April 2, 2008 Posted April 2, 2008 Right. So then it's a matter of supply and demand, correct? Men value beauty, women know this. The "cost" of a beautiful woman will be much greater than that of the average girl. Men get irked with women because women are innundated with the message that beauty is highly important to men. If a guy wants the hottie and can't afford her, then he needs to stop whinning that he can't get her. Instead, guys make up elaborate schemes to pretend they're self-confident and have what a beautiful woman wants. And then still gets pissed when women see through that, and still don't want the guy. Yet they insist that the women in their lives have to be up to a certain standard of attractiveness, or he couldn't possibly have a relationship with her. Yet he offers... a sick and twisted brain, bad breath, and still lives with mommy and daddy. I'm generalizing, but men seem to think they deserve "the best" even if they're gross, worthless pieces o' crap. You guys have an unnerving ability to see yourselves as real catches even if you're lugging around extra pounds, have a face only your mother could love, and can barely pay your bills. I think there are a few factors your not adding into this. Men are much more forgiving in regards to social status. You don't need a million dollars to get a decent guy. Also, there is a lot of variation in what men find attractive. I've got more than one guy friend who is a chubby chaser. You are very right that it's pretty much supply and demand though.
Woggle Posted April 2, 2008 Posted April 2, 2008 The hot attrative women according to the average man's standards are usually not worthy investments even if a man can afford them. I happen to have different taste in women than most men so most of these model types turn me off anyway but all they usually have to offer is looks. If you are wealthy enough you can parade them around and be proud that you have some arm candy but that is it. Many of them usually have horrible personalities and are unpleasable to the nth degree with horrible entitlement complexes. Why nice guys complain about not being able to have these women is beyond me. If these men would just expand who they go for they would be much better off.
Cobra_X30 Posted April 2, 2008 Posted April 2, 2008 I agree with this post. Essentially, there needs to be a balance. Frankly, the "nice guys" who complain are too lazy to really do anything about the situation. Jerks have access to women but on a short term basis. They rarely can make a LTR work because their little tricks can only take them so far. I think the "nice guy" types that come here to complain are all typically young... and more inexperienced than lazy. I see it mostly as a knowledge gap. Also, mean guys tend to do much better than you might imagine in LTR's. The hot attrative women according to the average man's standards are usually not worthy investments even if a man can afford them. I happen to have different taste in women than most men so most of these model types turn me off anyway but all they usually have to offer is looks. If you are wealthy enough you can parade them around and be proud that you have some arm candy but that is it. Many of them usually have horrible personalities and are unpleasable to the nth degree with horrible entitlement complexes. Why nice guys complain about not being able to have these women is beyond me. If these men would just expand who they go for they would be much better off. This perfectly illustrates my point about what men find attractive. I had a russian friend who once said that they have a saying in his family... "All women are beautiful." At the time I told him that was kind of wishful thinking and nowhere near true. Now I know what it means, and it is true.
sally4sara Posted April 2, 2008 Posted April 2, 2008 I'm starting to pick up on a pattern here.... I think the "be nice, treat her with respect and like a lady" thing is most likely to fail because this statement fails to explain what kind of treatment will make a woman feel respected and recognized as a lady. It is the blanket statement your mom and dad give you to make sure you don't enter the dating world acting like a bumbling neanderthal. It is also based on the perspective that woman are frail shrinking violets who need the shining knight to come in a save them. But really, most women are full capable of meeting their own needs on the day to day. We kill bugs, change tires, open doors and jars, carry heavy trash bags to the dumpster and all sorts of things. The rub comes when dealing with a guy who tries to do too much for us with the attitude that we can't or shouldn't have to do certain things because we are female. I' m not going to feel much respect if I end up being treated like I am incapable of handling my $hit on the day to day. At first it is nice to be treated like a princess, but the shoes pinch and the tiara digs in our scalp. We start to feel like a child and if we wanted that - we'd have never moved out of our folk's home. Treat us like you would a guy friend in you expectations of our abilities. If a woman needs help she can ask. If she is a girly girl, you'll find out soon enough. I've never though a guy was a jerk for expecting me to be able to pull my weight in any situation. But I have found it uncomfortable when a guy treats me like I can't. Just like I will think you are a jerk if we've been dating regular and you complain if I ask for help with something I can't manage alone. Example: I will need your help lifting a couch if I'm moving, but I don't need you to gather all your guy friends to do all the moving for me while you take any item weighing over ten pounds out of my hands because I might hurt myself. I was out with a guy once while doing Christmas shopping. I was getting it all done in one day. Every item I purchased, he would take from me and carry around. A couple things is nice, but as the pile increased and we walked along I started to feel ridiculous carrying nothing while he could barely see in front of him. I felt rude for letting him do it, not flattered because he was willing.
lino Posted April 2, 2008 Posted April 2, 2008 I'd just like to point out that men aren't helping matters. You (men in general) will bend over backwards for good looking girls. You reinforce that what REALLY matters in this world is how hot a girl is. Especially in the teens and 20's. No guy brags to his friends about how his new girlfriend has won a scholarship for her hard work in college. Women hear this. We aren't stupid. We pick up that what is important to a guy at that age is looks. So we cater to that. For our effort, we expect certain things in return. Either that's the guys looks, his money, or how a man will treat us (depending on what the woman is looking for). I get the impression this post may have been directed at me so I will explain in relation to me. The bolded part is untrue in my case, well was anyway. I was in the past a guy who would point out to my friends things like this. I'd encourage & praise things like this about a girl of mine but so what? It didn't make any difference because the friends & acquaintances of mine who only brag about how hot their gf/fiancee/wife is are the guys who had serious relationships while I didn't. What can you expect a guy to do when he observes this type of thing? Fact is most women put things like this example of yours as a distant 2nd priority from their man. I know this now & yeah of course I won't brag about such a thing anymore because it gets you nowhere. It irks me that men will get on here and bytch about how the hot women are selfish, materialistic, blah blah.. then the guy goes out to the bar, looks for the girl with the tanned skin, professionally styled hair, great makeup, and clothes that cost hundreds of dollars to make her look her absolute best. The ones that complain the most seem to be attracted to the type of women who have invested a great deal of time and effort into presenting an attractive outer appearance. The guy gets pissed that the women are shallow. Yet EVERYTHING about this girl has screamed who she was from the moment he laid eyes on her. This is also not true in my case. Like I said earlier it's usually these women coming to me I don't necessarily look for them. I don't care for pro styled hair, great makeup & expensive clothes either. A truly beautiful girl still will look fantastic without those things. I don't know.. it just seems so stupid that men focus so much on how a woman looks to the exclusion of some incredibly wonderful women out there. Then the man gets pissed that the hottie wanted someone that wasn't him. He whines that its unfair. To me, its comparable to seeing a really expensive sports car, and then throwing a tanturm when you can't afford it. Its juvenile. Women are confronted every day with the knowledge that men value how you look. The better you look, the higher your value to men. Either pay up, or stop whinning about it. Most of us couldn't afford the really expensive sports car so we drive average cars. Or we hoof it where we want to go. These men complaining are saying they deserve the expensive car, and won't even consider the average ones. Then get pissed that they're walking. I'll happily admit that I'm quite superficial with looks & that it's at least equally a #1 quality that I look for in a woman. So what? I put a lot of effort into my appearance too, I feel I have a right to expect the same in a girl. I'm not an ugly out of shape guy who's just kidding himself! Also your sportscar example isn't a very good one & it seems that you are generally trying to place some sort of monetary value on women. If that's all it basically came down to I wouldn't bother with all the bullsh*tting around & head straight to an expensive prostitute Basically, in my case, it comes down to the fact that when a guy like me did all the things he always heard women say they want from a man yet gets nowhere while the guys who are nearly everything women say they don't want are getting what they want, I genuinely start to question if what I'm doing is worth my while. Eventually it comes to a point where there is no motivation left to do nice things & I reached that point last year , not looking back since. Not to my surprise, it has worked so far to an extent. My last ex, who I was really really into, left me for a drug dealer. Other exes of mine have left me for guys who hit them and/or cheat on them yet stay with them. Some even are married to such guys now! I'm neither of those things & I never will be. However it'll be a very very long time until I compliment a girl, buy her flowers or gifts or support her with things which aren't related to me & her. It's working for me so far & if she eventually gets tired of it she's free to leave whenever she wants. My pride will still be intact this time unlike in the past I'm not like the guys from this ss or whatever forum who have come to post here but I do agree with some of the things they say. This may be a touch controversial, but really once you get something physical going with her... that's when you can be fairly sure that you have her interest. Like you said, my problem is more than likely different to other nice guys. I've never had problems in getting involved physically with any of my past girls, neither them with me & yes I assumed that meant interest on their part but clearly not enough Actually, it's an interesting point. When your dating a woman who is actively looking at other men, the farther you go with her physically the better your chances of being the guy she picks. That's one reason why "nice guys" tend to lose out. They often tend to think bieng respectful and waiting is the way to go. Similar to what I mean above, I don't think this applies to me. Anyway, your problem is more than likely different. I'd guess that what you give off as a first impression doesn't reflect your personality well. That pushes the women you want away... and attracts the crazy ones. I agree. I don't go for just one particular type but as I said, it seems to be the same type who go for me. I don't think they're crazy though, they're actually pretty normal. They just don't consciously know what they need. I realize this now.
Cobra_X30 Posted April 2, 2008 Posted April 2, 2008 Like you said, my problem is more than likely different to other nice guys. I've never had problems in getting involved physically with any of my past girls, neither them with me & yes I assumed that meant interest on their part but clearly not enough I read that in your earlier post. My friend who has a pretty similar problem is just simply too easy in a relationship. He gets too emotionally available too quick. That can feel to a woman like your shopping for wedding tuxes within the first month. See, you have no problems generating interest... that's good. What do you think your doing to drive them away? Have you ever asked an Ex what made her pull the plug on the relationship? I agree. I don't go for just one particular type but as I said, it seems to be the same type who go for me. I don't think they're crazy though, they're actually pretty normal. They just don't consciously know what they need. I realize this now. Most people in general don't know what they need. That's probably double true for women because they have more complex needs. I think you need to identify the problem first, then work on a solution.
D-Jam Posted April 2, 2008 Posted April 2, 2008 For the last year, I had been avoiding dating, intimacy, and anything of the like. I had been hurt one too many times by women who flaked out on me, many of whom then ran off to chase failing relationships with horrible men. What I realized is that while the behaviors of many of these women were not right, meaning how they treated me...I was just as much to blame for what happened to me. I let these women hurt me. I let them toy with me. I let them be flaky on me. I gave too many of these women too many chances to be better or to solidify things when I really should have launched them when the bad behavior started. Too many men and women want to believe they are these wonderful human beings that would make someone so very happy in life. Maybe they are, but they also think that being a good person to others will always win people over. Some people just don't deserve the love, care, admiration, and respect these "nice people" offer. Golden rule...remember? Treat others as you would want them to treat you. An add-on should be put that you should also drop those who won't treat you the way you want to be treated. Tying this in with the original post...if you have to be a jerk to get a girl, then she's just not worth being with. Even you will see that you had to trick her to get her...that she fell in love with someone you're not. Many then choose to treat her badly because a hate grows in them that she would not like them if they were good to her. For every girl that dropped me to chase some jerk, bad boy, or douchebag...I see it as God protecting me. I see it as one girl I lost now, as opposed to marrying her, having kids with her, then coming home to find her in bed with a jerk...and then her raping me in divorce court. Better to know who a person is now than to find out later when it will really hurt you. Nice people need to learn not to tolerate BS from the bad people...and to dump someone rather than think love and support will fix everything, when these people don't want to fix themselves. Don't put effort on those who don't deserve it, then complain later that people just want to fall in love with the "evil ones". Being a jerk might get you laid with trashy women, but you won't meet the quality girl that you would want to marry. Those women are too smart for the jerk/bad boy act.
TheFonz Posted April 2, 2008 Posted April 2, 2008 The hot attrative women according to the average man's standards are usually not worthy investments even if a man can afford them. I happen to have different taste in women than most men so most of these model types turn me off anyway but all they usually have to offer is looks. If you are wealthy enough you can parade them around and be proud that you have some arm candy but that is it. Many of them usually have horrible personalities and are unpleasable to the nth degree with horrible entitlement complexes. Why nice guys complain about not being able to have these women is beyond me. If these men would just expand who they go for they would be much better off. The thing is why are attractive women like this? Because they are attractive to men and become spoiled by all the attention. The problem is I, like most guys, aren't attracted to or turned on by a girl who isn't good looking. A good personality is nice but that alone just makes her a good female friend, not an attractive sexy woman.
TheFonz Posted April 2, 2008 Posted April 2, 2008 You might have a point. The psychopath takes to an extreme certain qualities or traits that are traditionally deemed manly. Courage, confidence and a lack of empathy. I do read predominantly male message boards from time to time, and although I find this whole masculinist thing a little dreary - not to mention quite ludicrous at times, I can appreciate the dilemma men find themselves in. If you decide that the opposite sex requires you to demonstrate the behaviour of a psychologically f*cked individual, should that be what you then aspire to? If a psychopath is now the standard, what do you do about that irritating conscience and human sense of compassion you can't seem to quite lose? Oh God...are you an emo??? I don't know what the answers to those dilemmas are. I'm aware of the popularity of seduction manuals and self help books, and I guess if men find these are genuinely making their lives better then who's to argue with that? I do think that if someone is genuinely confused or lacking confidence to the point where they're very depressed and developing skewed and exceptionally negative perceptions, then a little more than a pop psychology seduction manual/philosophy is probably in order. I guess everyone's just psycho and if you want to get a psycho and you're not one you have to become one, or at least pretend to be .
Woggle Posted April 2, 2008 Posted April 2, 2008 The thing is why are attractive women like this? Because they are attractive to men and become spoiled by all the attention. The problem is I, like most guys, aren't attracted to or turned on by a girl who isn't good looking. A good personality is nice but that alone just makes her a good female friend, not an attractive sexy woman. Luckily for me I tend to have different tastes than most men. Long blonde hair and fake body parts do not appeal to me. Pamela Anderson is ugly to me and even before she became a trainwreck Britney Spears was just average. A woman has to have something deeper than just the outside to catch my attention.
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