StartingOver07 Posted March 28, 2008 Posted March 28, 2008 Its not that big of an issue. He's already agreed not to go. But I am intrigued trying to figure out his line of reasoning. He wants to go see hot naked women (when he has one perfectly willing at home) and I'm supposed to go hang out with a girlfriend and have a wild night knitting or something. He thinks I'm trying to limit his fun with his friends but certainly doesnt' want me to be out having fun with another guy or even with my girfriends at a bar or party. His suggestion was I could stay at his place (by myself) and watch tv till he got home. ha! Because if/when he sees an ex, he is likely to have sex with her. So he assumes it is the same for you, regardless what your actual experience is. he feels threatened because he sees it through the prism of his desires/actions, not yours. Even more alarmng (to me) than any conflict created by this strip club thing is the fact that your bf has cheated many times in the past and apparently broke up with you so he could have sex with his ex. This does not bode well for the future.
hotgurl Posted March 28, 2008 Posted March 28, 2008 Didn't we just have a thread about sterotyping and sexism!?!?!?! Honestly, in this situation, do you feel that her communication was any better? She basically took a heated argument and threw a can of gas on it. I said you guys meaning both of them have sucky communication skills
Author lexi29 Posted March 28, 2008 Author Posted March 28, 2008 Ok let me get this stright. You are not worried about him cheating on you but yet you are jealous of him looking at other women?! That is what I call irrational thinking and behaviour. Are you living inside his head? because let me tell you something about the male brain. Males are visiual creatures and with high testostrone they think about sex alot through out the day. If you can't accept that fact then I feel sorry for him cause your irrational jealousy is going to drive him away. So you met him while he was cheating on another girl with you?! and you don't see that this was a bad idea to continue with a man with history of cheating, just because it wasn't with you. You are living in a fantasy world filled with ego investment, just so you can get married. When reality will hit you and it will, you won't be prepared for it. There are too many issues here that will not make this a successful marriage but rather more like a divorce statistic. No he was not cheating on anyone when I met him. WHen we started dating he was not already dating anyone else. not sure where you got that from. When I was refering to he is capable of cheating was when he left me he started dating an ex of his from 13 yrs ago.(he did not cheat on me with her as he did start dating her or slept with her until after he broke up with me. I didn't know they were dating and when I picked up my stuff from his place we had "goodbye sex" and it was totally his idea, I resisted at first and he pulled out all the stops to talk me into it. Well I found out that he was already dating this ex when he slept with me. So he cheated on her not even a week after they began dating. Quite possibly we shouldn't be getting married so soon. WHen I post on here I post about things that are concerns or just things I'd like to hear other's opinions on. I don't post about the sweet things my fiance does or says or about the many times we get along and communicate very well. I honestly don't think anyone is perfect and practically every person you meet is going to have something in their past or about their behavior that you dont' like or agree with. The strip club thing was never an issue because he's never asked to go or wanted to go. So I assumed I'd be cool with it. I was wrong.
BlueHaiku Posted March 28, 2008 Posted March 28, 2008 Didn't we just have a thread about sterotyping and sexism!?!?!?! Honestly, in this situation, do you feel that her communication was any better? She basically took a heated argument and threw a can of gas on it. Nu I think you misread "you guys" as "you men" when it was meant to say "you and your boyfriend". I don't think it was an insult to guys.
NuTuDating Posted March 28, 2008 Posted March 28, 2008 Nu I think you misread "you guys" as "you men" when it was meant to say "you and your boyfriend". I don't think it was an insult to guys. Sorry, guys usually means male where I'm from.
xpaperxcutx Posted March 28, 2008 Posted March 28, 2008 Honestly, the way this whole issue was played out, it hardly seems like a loving relationship; more of a upperhand kind of thing to see who can come out on top and win at an argument.
Author lexi29 Posted March 28, 2008 Author Posted March 28, 2008 That's not what I said. What I said was that your response made the issue explosive and was destructive instead of constructive. NO, you weren't supposed to go knitting. He offered for you to go with him, showing you his intentions. I don't blame you for not wanting him to go, I understand that, but threatening to go out with an ex just made the situation worse. Oh no, I agree with your saying it was throwing gasoline on a fire. thats exactly what I did. he was caught up in the "I'm controlling him" thing and so I wanted to bring up a potential situation that would make him understand how I feel. He requests that I don't hang out with my guy friends (or exes) without him around (and he doesnt' like them so we don't normally hang out with them as a couple either) so wouldn't that make him controlling according to his definition? I dont want to be labeled or thought of as controlling (because I honestly dont think I am and maybe thats just a blind spot). So I can't say to him dear I DON"t want you to go. Since my requesting he not go wasn't getting him to see the light either then I used that "threat" or example of me hanging out with my ex (he's not the ex my fiance hates and never wants me to see by the way) to get him to feel the exact emotions that he was making me feel. He did offer to take me to the strip club with him. But I'm not interested. I'm not a prude but I have no interest in going to a strip club with a SO. I might possibly go with one of my guy friends (we would joke around and rate the women etc) but I really don't want to watch the guy I"m in love with and intimate with appreciate the bodies of other women. I don't mind if he makes comments about females on tv or in porn etc so I'm not an insanely jealous person or anything but something about the whole strip club atmosphere just bugs me.
dreamergrl Posted March 28, 2008 Posted March 28, 2008 I think the more appropriate and mature way to have handled this, was just simply say that you respected his wish for you to not see your ex without him there, and you would like a little respect for your views on him going to the strip club. If you plan on being married, you need to adjust how you are communicating.
NuTuDating Posted March 28, 2008 Posted March 28, 2008 Oh no, I agree with your saying it was throwing gasoline on a fire. thats exactly what I did. he was caught up in the "I'm controlling him" thing and so I wanted to bring up a potential situation that would make him understand how I feel. He requests that I don't hang out with my guy friends (or exes) without him around (and he doesnt' like them so we don't normally hang out with them as a couple either) so wouldn't that make him controlling according to his definition? I dont want to be labeled or thought of as controlling (because I honestly dont think I am and maybe thats just a blind spot). So I can't say to him dear I DON"t want you to go. Since my requesting he not go wasn't getting him to see the light either then I used that "threat" or example of me hanging out with my ex (he's not the ex my fiance hates and never wants me to see by the way) to get him to feel the exact emotions that he was making me feel. He did offer to take me to the strip club with him. But I'm not interested. I'm not a prude but I have no interest in going to a strip club with a SO. I might possibly go with one of my guy friends (we would joke around and rate the women etc) but I really don't want to watch the guy I"m in love with and intimate with appreciate the bodies of other women. I don't mind if he makes comments about females on tv or in porn etc so I'm not an insanely jealous person or anything but something about the whole strip club atmosphere just bugs me. You'd go to a strip club with another man, but not YOUR man. You definitely don't need to be getting married.
twice_shy Posted March 28, 2008 Posted March 28, 2008 My fiance will have NONE of it. He was so upset that I wanted to do this but didnt' see how what he wanted to do was so much worse in my eyes? This guy is no threat to our relationship. There would be no touching, just hanging out and talking. I doubt I'd even give him a hug goodnight. We've hung out tons of times in the past and there is no interest in being anythign other than friends. yet, my fiance was very angry and hurt by my suggestion. but thought what he wanted to do was just "Fun". Well its not fun for me to think of some other woman being naked and being paid by my fiance to pay attention to him and touching him etc. No thanks. so do you think I'm being unreasonable? I mean, he decided not to go anyway but do you think thats a fair trade off if he wants to go in the future? No, I don't think you are being unreasonable. And your fiancee's reaction to what you want to do confirmed it as far as I'm concerned. Although I think dinner with an X would be worse than a strip club, its different the way you put it. You only want to do it because if he is going to be in the company of naked women who will be touching him, why can't you be in the company of a fully clothed man with no intention of touching him at all? Or when you said you want to have dinner with another man, do you really want that? If so, you may be opening up a can of worms as far as your relationship is concerned. I find it funny that your ploy worked. Most guys would go anyway and use what you would be doing as an excuse to get really raunchy about it all. But no, I don't think you are being unreasonable. I wouldn't want my SO going to a male strip club. If I am enough for her, why would she feel the need to go see other men? One of my old girlfriends a long time ago wanted to go to male strip clubs alot. We got into a fight once and she said that she should be able to go. I told her, "do whatever the hell you want then." After saying that she was worried about what I might do in retaliation. She tried to smooth it over and ended up saying she wouldn't go and I just said, "no you just go do whatever you want". And she asked if I would be home afterwards and I told her I don't know. boy did that get to her.
Star Gazer Posted March 28, 2008 Posted March 28, 2008 Lexi, there are red flags all over all of your posts. As another poster said "there are too many issues here" and it doesn't sound good for the future of your relationship. I'd suggest you get some marriage counseling before you get married. It sounds like you both need to work on understanding each other better and on better communication skills. Absolutely!!!!
Author lexi29 Posted March 28, 2008 Author Posted March 28, 2008 Honestly, the way this whole issue was played out, it hardly seems like a loving relationship; more of a upperhand kind of thing to see who can come out on top and win at an argument. Well it resolved the issue. He isnt' going to the strip club and I'm not going to have dinner with my guy friend. So honestly anyone? How should this conversation have gone? I agree it should have excluded the "threats". There weren't any raised voices or fighting over this- more of a struggle to make the other see where we were coming from. So if it went like this Him- I want to go to the strip club with the guys me- well that really makes me uncomfortable and I wish you wouldn't go. i don't like the idea of these hot girls touching you and dancing on you. Plus I would rather spend time with you. Him- Well you can go with us Me- no thanks not really my thing. I just would rather you not go. Him -so you are basically saying I can't go? Me- I'm saying I wish you'd reconsider cause I'm not comfortable with it. Your friends are single so its more appropriate for them. Plus you've never been interested in going since we've been dating. Him- well the guys asked me to go and I want to hang out with them. me- well why don't you guys all go to a bar something? Him- no their plans are to go to the strip club. me- well go out with them next time and they'll probably go to a bar him= this is when he told me about his friend wanting to ask the strippper out me- still saying I'd rather he not go him- trying to reason with me him- telling me he thinks I am trying to control him and he doesnt' like it and feels I dont' want him hanging out with his friends. me- and thats when I brought up the thing about my ex and having dinner with him oh and the most important part that I left out is that he told me if I go to dinner with my ex then he wants his engagement ring back . So he would break up with me (or is threatening he would) if I would go hang out with my guy friend WHILE HE is at a strip club enjoying all the benefits of the place. So how should this conversation have gone??
twice_shy Posted March 28, 2008 Posted March 28, 2008 Jesus Christ, why the hell are you two getting married? If he has any ounce of brains in his head, he will NOT marry you. If you have any ounce of brains in your head, you will NOT marry him. Do you honestly think all this crap is going to fix itself once you're legally bonded together? THINK AGAIN. It's only going to get worse. If you can't work out your differences before the wedding, what makes you think you'll be able to work it out after the wedding? Do yourselves a favor and split up. So he shouldn't marry her because she has concerns about what he is doing? She has a problem with it, she confronted him about it and he basically proved that her feelings mean nothing to him. Oh boy, but when she does something, sort of, similar, he just didn't think it was right did he? I agree, they shouldn't get married, but thats because he could give a crap about her feelings, but thinks she should hold his in the highest regard.
Author lexi29 Posted March 28, 2008 Author Posted March 28, 2008 You'd go to a strip club with another man, but not YOUR man. You definitely don't need to be getting married. lol, Im not saying I WANT to go to a strip club at all!! I'm using that as an example, that I would be more comfortable going to a strip club with one of my guy friends (doesnt' have to be an ex) because I wouldn't feel threatened or jealous if he started drooling over the strippers. But in the same situation with my fiance I would get upset. I have no interest in seeing naked chicks and neither do any of my female friends so if I were to go it would obviously would be with a guy. But no, I don't really ever care to go to a strip club with anyone. I don't see how I would get any enjoyment out of the experience. There is no equivalent example of something I could ask my fiance to go to with me that would make him equally uncomfortable so I'm not sure what comparison I could use there.
dreamergrl Posted March 28, 2008 Posted March 28, 2008 I don't think they need to split up - they just need to communicate better. OP has respected his wishes for her not to see her ex without him - he should have respected her wishes about the strip club. It shouldn't involve threats though. It boils down to both of them realizing the relationship is a two way street. It has to go both ways - and OP tried to make that point with the threat of seeing the ex - not the way to do it, but wanted her fiance to understand her position.
twice_shy Posted March 28, 2008 Posted March 28, 2008 Yes you are being unreasonable. Two wrongs don't make a right. your response to this was from her asking if her having dinner with another guy is a fair trade off if he decides he wants to go to a strip club in the future. Obviously if he doesn't think is a "wrong", then he shouldn't feel that her activity is either. What you have to understand is that you are going to be his future wife not his mother. If you TRUST your future husband then it does not matter where he goes. Then it shouldn't matter where she goes either. First you insinuated that him going to a strip club is a "wrong", now you are saying it doesn't matter where he goes if she trusts him. So why isn't it working that way when she tells him what she wants to do? For all you know he could tell you that he is going to the library only to have sex with the neighbour. By now you should have a good feeling about him whether or not he is a man of his word and if he is then he isn't going to touch those strippers. Thats not the point. Some people feel disrespected if their SO wants to see other people take their clothes off. I'm satisifed with my partner, so why the hell would I want to go see other women take their clothes off? You on the other hand is making the situation alot worse by threatning you will go out with your ex boyfriend, a man that shouldn't even be in this picture. And other naked women shouldn't be in the picture either. It does not matter that you broke up with him, the mere fact that the two of you had sex in the past has warrant enough threat to your current relationship with your man. How would you feel if your future husband starts hanging around his ex girlfriend's he dumped??! That is her whole point. Although not an apples to apples comparison, HE is doing something that she doesn't like and he is poo pooing her feelings about it. Oh, but when she suggests something he doesn't like, its a much different story isn't it? If Tit for tat is your idea of a good future with your man, you are headed to alot of problems and fighting in your future marriage. A man is what he is and trying to change him by threatning him is a path the is never a success for a good union. A so-called future life partner is never a good candidate for a good union when they dismiss their partner's feelings which is exactly what he did. She is just putting the shoe on the other foot to have him see what it is like to be disrespected and have your feelings be made to feel as if they are stupid and don't count. True, the tit for tat is not a good idea for a good union, I agree. But if one partner clearly doesn't respect the other's feelings, as he has done, then he isn't worthy of being in a relationship.
hotgurl Posted March 28, 2008 Posted March 28, 2008 but also he shouldn't threaten to break up with her. If you two continue to communicate like this resentment could start building and effect your relationship.
reddog63 Posted March 28, 2008 Posted March 28, 2008 Its not that big of an issue. He's already agreed not to go. But I am intrigued trying to figure out his line of reasoning. He wants to go see hot naked women (when he has one perfectly willing at home) and I'm supposed to go hang out with a girlfriend and have a wild night knitting or something. He thinks I'm trying to limit his fun with his friends but certainly doesnt' want me to be out having fun with another guy or even with my girfriends at a bar or party. His suggestion was I could stay at his place (by myself) and watch tv till he got home. ha! You think it is solved because he "agreed" not to go. NO, he "agreed" only to keep you from bitching about it. I have been married a long time, have been to strip clubs. They are no big deal. You can not understand because you are thinking like a woman. To a guy, it is no big deal. You do more harm in the long run. You get enough of these..........."he agreed to" items over time, and he will leave one day.
Star Gazer Posted March 28, 2008 Posted March 28, 2008 me- still saying I'd rather he not go him- trying to reason with me him- telling me he thinks I am trying to control him and he doesnt' like it and feels I dont' want him hanging out with his friends. me- and thats when I brought up the thing about my ex and having dinner with him oh and the most important part that I left out is that he told me if I go to dinner with my ex then he wants his engagement ring back . So he would break up with me (or is threatening he would) if I would go hang out with my guy friend WHILE HE is at a strip club enjoying all the benefits of the place. So how should this conversation have gone?? The bolded part is where you went wrong - big time. You ARE trying to control him by manipulating him emotionally. Two wrongs (assuming either the strip club or dinner with the ex is a "wrong") don't make a right, and the person purposefully carrying out the 2nd wrong comes across as vengeful and spiteful. THAT's why he said he'd ask for the ring back. It's not that he's trying to create a double standard. He's trying to tell you that you PURPOSEFULLY doing something you know would upset him just to spite him for doing something you would only rather he not do... ain't cool.
twice_shy Posted March 28, 2008 Posted March 28, 2008 I have to be honest and say I'm concerned about your whole situation, because it sounds like neither you nor your fiancee have a lot of trust and understanding built up between you. And trust and understanding are important in a marriage. I can't speak for her, but in my view it isn't about trust. I would pretty much know that my SO wouldn't do anything or cheat if she went to a strip club(then again I'm not certain she wouldn't) But my point of contention about it is it would make me feel like dogshiit if she felt the need to look at other guys taking off their clothes. And if she can't see that and doesn't care about how I feel and would go anyway even though she knows I'd be sitting at home feeling bad about it all, then she doesn't need to come back.
twice_shy Posted March 28, 2008 Posted March 28, 2008 Again you are being combatitive here. You see every thing wrong of him hanging around a bunch of naked women he doesn't know and won't touch, while not seeing how wrong your behaviour is by hanging around an ex of yours. You are trying to have your cake and eat it too simple as that. You justify your own behaviour because you feel disrespected and this is a bad precedent to carry over to a marriage. I think you missed the part where she said she doesn't want to go out with the ex, she proposed it to put the shoe on the other foot to see how he'd like it. now its not what I would do, but it is her fiancee that is the cake eater. He wants to be able to do what he wants, but gets all pissed off when she puts herself in a situation he doesn't like.
twice_shy Posted March 28, 2008 Posted March 28, 2008 Then it's important to let him know how uncomfortable you are with him being around naked chicks. Be honest with him, instead of getting back at him by bringing up more problems than solutions to it Uh...she did. And he dismissed her concerns a ridiculous.
Author lexi29 Posted March 28, 2008 Author Posted March 28, 2008 I can't speak for her, but in my view it isn't about trust. I would pretty much know that my SO wouldn't do anything or cheat if she went to a strip club(then again I'm not certain she wouldn't) But my point of contention about it is it would make me feel like dogshiit if she felt the need to look at other guys taking off their clothes. And if she can't see that and doesn't care about how I feel and would go anyway even though she knows I'd be sitting at home feeling bad about it all, then she doesn't need to come back. Thank you- that is my viewpoint as well. I feel I am pretty open minded about somethings - I don't care if he comments about hot women on tv or anything but in person I feel its disrespectful and I understand men's need for variety and all but I feel if he loves me he shouldn't NEED to go see live naked women. He's got porn and plenty of variety in that. I'm not worried about him cheating with one of the strippers or anything, I just think I would have a lot of bad feelings over him going so I don't want him to go. I'm not trying to make it into a control issue- he's never been interested in going the whole time we've been dating so I have no idea why its an issue now.
twice_shy Posted March 28, 2008 Posted March 28, 2008 Honestly, the way this whole issue was played out, it hardly seems like a loving relationship; more of a upperhand kind of thing to see who can come out on top and win at an argument. For pete's sake, did anyone not read her post well enough? She said she doesn't care if he goes out, to a bar, club, whatever. She has this one issue with him looking at other women stripping...THATS IT!! The way you all talk, its like she shouldn't have any damn feelings. And thats what it is all about. Her feelings about this ONE situation. Feelings that were shoved aside because he didn't care enough about them to respect them. Again, I wouldn't have advised her to "get even". I would have expected her behavior to rise above his. But when she turned the tables ONLY THEN did he agree not to go.
dreamergrl Posted March 28, 2008 Posted March 28, 2008 Thank you- that is my viewpoint as well. I feel I am pretty open minded about somethings - I don't care if he comments about hot women on tv or anything but in person I feel its disrespectful and I understand men's need for variety and all but I feel if he loves me he shouldn't NEED to go see live naked women. He's got porn and plenty of variety in that. I'm not worried about him cheating with one of the strippers or anything, I just think I would have a lot of bad feelings over him going so I don't want him to go. I'm not trying to make it into a control issue- he's never been interested in going the whole time we've been dating so I have no idea why its an issue now. When it boils down to it, could it be he just wants to hang out with the guys? Maybe he doesn't want to be made fun of for not being allowed to go? Maybe is friends are giving him a hard time about settling down and getting married? Not saying he shouldn't respect your feelings... but all possible reasons why he has the urge to go.
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