lexi29 Posted March 28, 2008 Posted March 28, 2008 (edited) Which is worse? Going to see strippers or having dinner with an ex? My fiance and I have been engaged for a month, getting married this Sept. If it matters he has an 8 yr old son that lives with him full time. We've been dating (on and off) for about 4 yrs. I should also point out that we just got back together recently after a break up he intitated (dated another woman for 3 weeks) He's earned my trust back- he didnt' cheat but did leave me abruptly for his ex- for the most part. He likes to hang out with the guys he works with sometimes. This one friend he has got his FWB girl pregnant and he is still sort of seeing her (she was living with him for about a month) but he is still on the prowl for a girlfriend or new FWB. So while I like the guy I don't like his morals or influence. Well him and some of the other guys from work asked my fiance to go to a strip club with them. His friend wants to ask this stripper out (the guy with the pregnant ex). HIs friends went to this strip club last weekend and wanted my fiance to go but he had his son. He has NEVER gone to a strip club as long as we've been dating and nor did he go to one the three weeks he was dating his ex. So the last time he went was about six years ago. He's been about four different times. Went with his dad once when he was 18, with his brother once, with his female cousin and her boyfriend, and with a group of friends another time. I don't know why he hasn't gone since we've been dating. I've never forbid him to go or anything like that. I have no problem with him watching porn and would like to think I am a "cool girlfriend" but in the middle of planning a wedding I do not think it is appropriate for him to go watch naked women and possibly be having them dancing on him or touching him. So I expressed my concerns. He is NOT going to go. We decided this. But here is what bothers me and I do not understand. When he told me about going I was at first ok with it until I thought about it and also read some posts on here. He told me that the strip club they are going to they have bouncers who do not let anyone touch the girls. Also during a lap dance the guy has to hold onto the bottom of the chair and not touch the girls or they will get kicked out. He invited me to come with them if I wanted (no thanks) He also said he's never had a lap dance and just likes to look. He says its a waste of money to pay $20 for a dance that lasts a song. However I know his friends and since he just got engaged they would probably be encouraging him and even pay for lap dances and I'd never know and that bothers me. So I expressed I did not want him to go and he said he felt I was being unreasonable and that I just do not want him hanging out with the guys. Not true, I dont' care if he goes to a bar with them. (But this is the same guy who does not want to have alcohol at our reception) He told me that I look better than 90% of the girls there anyway (ouch that stung a bit but guess it was truthful) so its more that he just wants to have a guy's night then he wants to see strippers. Whatever. So I proposed a solution. He can have his "freedom" but then so can I. Since i have zero interest in seeing male strippers (ick) I suggested if he wants to go to the strip club I want to hang out with one of my close guy friends (also an ex of mine). This guy and I email and talk on the phone about five times a month at most and we used to hang out a lot ( he lives two hours away so we'd hang out when he was in town to see his parents) I have NO feelings for him, but I spent several years dating him and why waste that so we became good friends. I am the one who left HIM so there are no feelings on either side anymore. Its been seven years since we dated and we are platonic friends. He is dating a few women casually. When we hang out we normally go to dinner and just talk for hours to catch up. My fiance has met this guy twice and does not care for him (because he is an ex) I think they would get along fine if he'd never known he dated me. He just doesnt like that he's an ex. He asked me not to hang out with him unless he's there and I've respected that and so its been about a year since I"ve seen my friend (ex). So I proposed that if my fiance wants to see strippers than I am going to have dinner or go shopping (he likes to shop) with my guy friend (ex). Well my fiance flipped out about this. He does NOT want me to hang out with this guy. Well if he is going to be out all night drooling over naked women who are not me, then I should be "allowed" to go hang out with my guy friend. I think what I would be doing is much more innocent and less offensive than what he wants to do (get drunk, ogle naked women and probably have some naked chick dancing and grinding on him) All I want to do is have dinner with another guy (who I've had plenty of contact with over the last seven years since we dated and nothing inappropriate has ever happened and ISN"T going to happen with) There will only be dinner and talking, no touching, certainly no nudity! My fiance will have NONE of it. He was so upset that I wanted to do this but didnt' see how what he wanted to do was so much worse in my eyes? This guy is no threat to our relationship. There would be no touching, just hanging out and talking. I doubt I'd even give him a hug goodnight. We've hung out tons of times in the past and there is no interest in being anythign other than friends. yet, my fiance was very angry and hurt by my suggestion. but thought what he wanted to do was just "Fun". Well its not fun for me to think of some other woman being naked and being paid by my fiance to pay attention to him and touching him etc. No thanks. so do you think I'm being unreasonable? I mean, he decided not to go anyway but do you think thats a fair trade off if he wants to go in the future? Edited March 28, 2008 by lexi29
Lovegod Posted March 28, 2008 Posted March 28, 2008 We've been dating (on and off) for about 4 yrs. I should also point out that we just got back together recently after a break up he intitated He is NOT going to go. I suggested if he wants to go to the strip club I want to hang out with one of my close guy friends (also an ex of mine). My fiance will have NONE of it. Jesus Christ, why the hell are you two getting married? If he has any ounce of brains in his head, he will NOT marry you. If you have any ounce of brains in your head, you will NOT marry him. Do you honestly think all this crap is going to fix itself once you're legally bonded together? THINK AGAIN. It's only going to get worse. If you can't work out your differences before the wedding, what makes you think you'll be able to work it out after the wedding? Do yourselves a favor and split up.
NuTuDating Posted March 28, 2008 Posted March 28, 2008 Yeah, I don't think that the two are the same, either. He's got issues going to a strip club and you're throwing it out there that you'd like to go to dinner with an ex. I think the whole things stinks, but hey, maybe you two were made for each other. However, if I were him, I'd agree to the deal if there was a bouncer to go with you and your ex.
Damagedgoods Posted March 28, 2008 Posted March 28, 2008 . so do you think I'm being unreasonable? I mean, he decided not to go anyway but do you think thats a fair trade off if he wants to go in the future? Yes you are being unreasonable. Two wrongs don't make a right. What you have to understand is that you are going to be his future wife not his mother. If you TRUST your future husband then it does not matter where he goes. For all you know he could tell you that he is going to the library only to have sex with the neighbour. By now you should have a good feeling about him whether or not he is a man of his word and if he is then he isn't going to touch those strippers. You on the other hand is making the situation alot worse by threatning you will go out with your ex boyfriend, a man that shouldn't even be in this picture. It does not matter that you broke up with him, the mere fact that the two of you had sex in the past has warrant enough threat to your current relationship with your man. How would you feel if your future husband starts hanging around his ex girlfriend's he dumped??! You know it ain't going to be right because that one that got dumped will always want to come back in one way or another even if its an act of revenge. If Tit for tat is your idea of a good future with your man, you are headed to alot of problems and fighting in your future marriage. A man is what he is and trying to change him by threatning him is a path the is never a success for a good union.
BlueHaiku Posted March 28, 2008 Posted March 28, 2008 I'm wondering what the fact that you're in the middle of planning a wedding really has to do with your concerns. Does that mean that after you're married you wouldn't have a problem with him going to a strip club? I find myself a bit skeptical about that. Of course what you want to do is worse in his eyes and what he wants to do is worse in your eyes. That's why it's your respective eyes. My guess is that he KNOWS going to the strip club means nothing to him, but he doesn't know for sure that your friend is just your friend. Similarly, you KNOW that your friend is just your friend but you don't knwo that going to the strip club means nothing to him. That's only logical since you can't read each other's minds. I have to be honest and say I'm concerned about your whole situation, because it sounds like neither you nor your fiancee have a lot of trust and understanding built up between you. And trust and understanding are important in a marriage. He doesn't trust you to go out with this friend, and you don't trust him to to out to a strip club. He doesn't understand your friendship with this guy, and you don't understand that the strip club is not threatening to your relationship in any physical way (I'm assuming he would explain it that way).
tanbark813 Posted March 28, 2008 Posted March 28, 2008 Ask yourself if you'd rather he go to the strip club or have dinner with one of his exes.
Star Gazer Posted March 28, 2008 Posted March 28, 2008 He can have his "freedom" but then so can I. The way this whole situation has unraveled spells doom to me. If in your position, I would not be getting married.
hotgurl Posted March 28, 2008 Posted March 28, 2008 I don't think you guys are readfy for marriage at all. You two don't really deal with conflict all that well. This tit for tat thing is bad news for a relationship. Also his passive argressive joking is bad as well. Being married is so much more that just being in love. That love feeling ebbs and flows during a course of the relationship. How you two communicate and handle conflict is one of the bigger predictors of how happy a marriage will be.
xpaperxcutx Posted March 28, 2008 Posted March 28, 2008 Honestly, there's no logic and fairness in your proposal. I would understand how upset you are over him attending a strip club, but I would expect you to have a bit more trust in him as his behaviour never warranted that he would cheat on you. You never mentioned he was the cheating sort, but you're afraid that he might go down that path because of the influences his friends might have on him. Although it's a bit disconcerting, you do have to give him the benefit of the doubt as he is engaged to you. Moreover, having dinner with your ex as a rebuttal against your bf sounds more like an ultimatum than anything else. The both of you need to talk to each other again and come to a better understanding as to this issue. It might seem that you're a bit insecure about his actions and if you don't address it there will be less trust in the future.
Author lexi29 Posted March 28, 2008 Author Posted March 28, 2008 Ask yourself if you'd rather he go to the strip club or have dinner with one of his exes. I'd rather he do neither. The fact is I don't really WANT to hang out with my guy friend. I don't care that he is an ex. Would it be a better situation if I went out with a guy who was just a friend who I never dated?? Would that make a difference. This guy is totally platonic and we've been that way (no feelings involved) for the last six years. I am a person who normally stays friends with exes. I dont want him to go to the strip club. the more I thought about it, it really bothers me and that surpises me because I have no problem with porn, heck I buy it for him most of the time. We watch it together sometimes. But live women he can touch etc I just don't like it. I don't think he is going to run off and have sex with one of them, thats not my concern. I just get very hurt and jealous thinking about him being touched by some other woman or him talking to his buddies about how hot he thinks some chick is and him paying money to her. That bugs me. I know its just fantasy but he can watch porn if he wants to see variety. I mean his two friends are planning to ask two of the strippers they like out!! So its not like they go there just to look. He doesnt' seem to understand what the big deal is, why it bothers me and feels I am saying NO to guys nights out. Which I'm not. They can go see a movie, go to a bar etc, I don't care. Just no nude women. So I used the example with my ex to show him how I feel. He felt threatened, uncomfortable etc with the idea of me hanging out with another guy for the evening (at a restaurant in public for pete's sake!) but I am supposed to be totally cool with him going to see strippers? Does that make any sense? Again, I'm not worried he's going to CHEAT on me there. If I were worried about him cheating on me I certainly wouldn't be planning to marry him! I just think it is disrespectful of him going with single guy friends (who want to date these girls) to see strippers. He's asked me not to hang out with my guy friend ex and I have respected that and I don't see him unless my fiance is with me. My thought is why does he think it would be ok for him to see strippers but throw a fit about me hanging out with an old friend (who happens to be an ex)?
Starla Posted March 28, 2008 Posted March 28, 2008 i agree with the previous posters...i wouldn't even think about getting married if i were you. at least not yet. there seems to be too much game playing. you are either happy with him going to the club, or you aren't - that won't change just because you put conditions on it. i also don't feel a true love relationship has any room for conditions and 'if you do this then i'm going to do that'. you should be a partnership, a team, where you BOTH make decisions that are best for you AND him!!!
NuTuDating Posted March 28, 2008 Posted March 28, 2008 I'd rather he do neither. The fact is I don't really WANT to hang out with my guy friend. I don't care that he is an ex. Would it be a better situation if I went out with a guy who was just a friend who I never dated?? Would that make a difference. This guy is totally platonic and we've been that way (no feelings involved) for the last six years. I am a person who normally stays friends with exes. I dont want him to go to the strip club. the more I thought about it, it really bothers me and that surpises me because I have no problem with porn, heck I buy it for him most of the time. We watch it together sometimes. But live women he can touch etc I just don't like it. I don't think he is going to run off and have sex with one of them, thats not my concern. I just get very hurt and jealous thinking about him being touched by some other woman or him talking to his buddies about how hot he thinks some chick is and him paying money to her. That bugs me. I know its just fantasy but he can watch porn if he wants to see variety. I mean his two friends are planning to ask two of the strippers they like out!! So its not like they go there just to look. He doesnt' seem to understand what the big deal is, why it bothers me and feels I am saying NO to guys nights out. Which I'm not. They can go see a movie, go to a bar etc, I don't care. Just no nude women. So I used the example with my ex to show him how I feel. He felt threatened, uncomfortable etc with the idea of me hanging out with another guy for the evening (at a restaurant in public for pete's sake!) but I am supposed to be totally cool with him going to see strippers? Does that make any sense? Again, I'm not worried he's going to CHEAT on me there. If I were worried about him cheating on me I certainly wouldn't be planning to marry him! I just think it is disrespectful of him going with single guy friends (who want to date these girls) to see strippers. He's asked me not to hang out with my guy friend ex and I have respected that and I don't see him unless my fiance is with me. My thought is why does he think it would be ok for him to see strippers but throw a fit about me hanging out with an old friend (who happens to be an ex)? If his going to a strip club is that big of an issue for you, then you should tell him that instead of threatening to go out with an ex. I can understand where that idea came from, but as you can see, that just threw gas on the fire. If you're engaged, and this is that big of an issue, maybe you should reconsider.
Author lexi29 Posted March 28, 2008 Author Posted March 28, 2008 And no, it wasn't really an ultimatum. Its just that he is trying to make me seem like I"m being unreasonable and controlling and "forbiding" him from having fun with his friends. I'm not worried about him being unfaithful (he has cheated on exes in the past and the ex he broke up with me to date, he cheated on her with me only a few days after they started dating. So he is a person who has cheated before though not on me and not on several of his exes.) I'm not worried he's going to date or hook up with one of the strippers I'm just jealous and uncomfortable with the fact of him going and looking at naked women and so I suggested a situation that I knew would make him uncomfortable to let him see how I feel. He should know I"m not going to cheat on him either. There's really no other parallel to him going to a strip club. I mean most women don't enjoy male strippers (I know I don't care for them) so how about I invite some hot guys over that I work with or have seen around and they dance and take off all their clothes and I get to watch and be flirted with and there may or may not be some touching going on. Hypothetical situation of course but I'm sure my fiance would not find that acceptable either.
Damagedgoods Posted March 28, 2008 Posted March 28, 2008 Again you are being combatitive here. You see every thing wrong of him hanging around a bunch of naked women he doesn't know and won't touch, while not seeing how wrong your behaviour is by hanging around an ex of yours. You are trying to have your cake and eat it too simple as that. You justify your own behaviour because you feel disrespected and this is a bad precedent to carry over to a marriage. With this kind of outlook on life and without considering your husband concern and your own irrational jealousy your future marriage is doomed like 50% of all marriages.
xpaperxcutx Posted March 28, 2008 Posted March 28, 2008 I'd rather he do neither. The fact is I don't really WANT to hang out with my guy friend. I don't care that he is an ex. Would it be a better situation if I went out with a guy who was just a friend who I never dated?? Would that make a difference. This guy is totally platonic and we've been that way (no feelings involved) for the last six years. I am a person who normally stays friends with exes. I dont want him to go to the strip club. the more I thought about it, it really bothers me and that surpises me because I have no problem with porn, heck I buy it for him most of the time. We watch it together sometimes. But live women he can touch etc I just don't like it. I don't think he is going to run off and have sex with one of them, thats not my concern. I just get very hurt and jealous thinking about him being touched by some other woman or him talking to his buddies about how hot he thinks some chick is and him paying money to her. That bugs me. I know its just fantasy but he can watch porn if he wants to see variety. I mean his two friends are planning to ask two of the strippers they like out!! So its not like they go there just to look. He doesnt' seem to understand what the big deal is, why it bothers me and feels I am saying NO to guys nights out. Which I'm not. They can go see a movie, go to a bar etc, I don't care. Just no nude women. So I used the example with my ex to show him how I feel. He felt threatened, uncomfortable etc with the idea of me hanging out with another guy for the evening (at a restaurant in public for pete's sake!) but I am supposed to be totally cool with him going to see strippers? Does that make any sense? Again, I'm not worried he's going to CHEAT on me there. If I were worried about him cheating on me I certainly wouldn't be planning to marry him! I just think it is disrespectful of him going with single guy friends (who want to date these girls) to see strippers. He's asked me not to hang out with my guy friend ex and I have respected that and I don't see him unless my fiance is with me. My thought is why does he think it would be ok for him to see strippers but throw a fit about me hanging out with an old friend (who happens to be an ex)? Then it's important to let him know how uncomfortable you are with him being around naked chicks. Be honest with him, instead of getting back at him by bringing up more problems than solutions to it. How do you expect to live happily with him forever if you can't compromise or at least resolve problems a bit more respectful of each other?
Author lexi29 Posted March 28, 2008 Author Posted March 28, 2008 If his going to a strip club is that big of an issue for you, then you should tell him that instead of threatening to go out with an ex. I can understand where that idea came from, but as you can see, that just threw gas on the fire. If you're engaged, and this is that big of an issue, maybe you should reconsider. Its not that big of an issue. He's already agreed not to go. But I am intrigued trying to figure out his line of reasoning. He wants to go see hot naked women (when he has one perfectly willing at home) and I'm supposed to go hang out with a girlfriend and have a wild night knitting or something. He thinks I'm trying to limit his fun with his friends but certainly doesnt' want me to be out having fun with another guy or even with my girfriends at a bar or party. His suggestion was I could stay at his place (by myself) and watch tv till he got home. ha!
hotgurl Posted March 28, 2008 Posted March 28, 2008 And no, it wasn't really an ultimatum. Its just that he is trying to make me seem like I"m being unreasonable and controlling and "forbiding" him from having fun with his friends. I'm not worried about him being unfaithful (he has cheated on exes in the past and the ex he broke up with me to date, he cheated on her with me only a few days after they started dating. So he is a person who has cheated before though not on me and not on several of his exes.) I'm not worried he's going to date or hook up with one of the strippers I'm just jealous and uncomfortable with the fact of him going and looking at naked women and so I suggested a situation that I knew would make him uncomfortable to let him see how I feel. He should know I"m not going to cheat on him either. . Lexi this is bad communication. You didn't like what he was planning on doing. He made you out to be controlling which you didn't like and than you brought up the situation with you ex. Which is really petty. esp since you have admitted you didn't even want to see him. You brought is up not to illustrate a point but because you know it bothers him and you wanted to hit him where it hurts.
Damagedgoods Posted March 28, 2008 Posted March 28, 2008 . I'm not worried about him being unfaithful (he has cheated on exes in the past and the ex he broke up with me to date, he cheated on her with me only a few days after they started dating. So he is a person who has cheated before though not on me and not on several of his exes.) I'm not worried he's going to date or hook up with one of the strippers I'm just jealous and uncomfortable with the fact of him going and looking at naked women Ok let me get this stright. You are not worried about him cheating on you but yet you are jealous of him looking at other women?! That is what I call irrational thinking and behaviour. Are you living inside his head? because let me tell you something about the male brain. Males are visiual creatures and with high testostrone they think about sex alot through out the day. If you can't accept that fact then I feel sorry for him cause your irrational jealousy is going to drive him away. So you met him while he was cheating on another girl with you?! and you don't see that this was a bad idea to continue with a man with history of cheating, just because it wasn't with you. You are living in a fantasy world filled with ego investment, just so you can get married. When reality will hit you and it will, you won't be prepared for it. There are too many issues here that will not make this a successful marriage but rather more like a divorce statistic.
Damagedgoods Posted March 28, 2008 Posted March 28, 2008 He made you out to be controlling which you didn't like and than you brought up the situation with you ex. Nobody can make anybody be deemed controlling. If you feel the need to restrict someone ability to go wherever they please then it is controlling.
hotgurl Posted March 28, 2008 Posted March 28, 2008 Its not that big of an issue. He's already agreed not to go. But I am intrigued trying to figure out his line of reasoning. He wants to go see hot naked women (when he has one perfectly willing at home) and I'm supposed to go hang out with a girlfriend and have a wild night knitting or something. He thinks I'm trying to limit his fun with his friends but certainly doesnt' want me to be out having fun with another guy or even with my girfriends at a bar or party. His suggestion was I could stay at his place (by myself) and watch tv till he got home. ha! but these fights illustrate a bigger problem. That you guys don't have great communication and conflict solving skills. Which makes a huge difference in marriages.
Author lexi29 Posted March 28, 2008 Author Posted March 28, 2008 Again you are being combatitive here. You see every thing wrong of him hanging around a bunch of naked women he doesn't know and won't touch, while not seeing how wrong your behaviour is by hanging around an ex of yours. You are trying to have your cake and eat it too simple as that. You justify your own behaviour because you feel disrespected and this is a bad precedent to carry over to a marriage. With this kind of outlook on life and without considering your husband concern and your own irrational jealousy your future marriage is doomed like 50% of all marriages. I didnt suggest hanging out with my ex (which I've done many times in the past before I was dating my fiance and also once when we were broken up) He's just a FRIEND. the fact that he is a male and an ex has nothing to do with our relationship. I do not hang out with him on my own because of my fiance's wishes and I respect that. The only thing wrong with me hanging out with my ex is that my fiance has expressed it makes him uncomfortable. So I do not do it. However if he were to choose to do something that I expressed makes me uncomfortable (strip club attendance) then I think the "wrong" becomes null and void. He's just a friend and if my fiance wants to go out and have fun without me then I should be permitted to do the same. I'm just curious and maybe some of the guys can help me out?? Why does he think I shouldn't be threatened or uncomfortable or jealous of him going to see naked women but he feels all of this toward the idea of me hanging out with another guy having dinner? Why should I be cool with him going to a strip club but he's not cool with me having an innocent dinner with an old friend?
NuTuDating Posted March 28, 2008 Posted March 28, 2008 Its not that big of an issue. He's already agreed not to go. But I am intrigued trying to figure out his line of reasoning. He wants to go see hot naked women (when he has one perfectly willing at home) and I'm supposed to go hang out with a girlfriend and have a wild night knitting or something. He thinks I'm trying to limit his fun with his friends but certainly doesnt' want me to be out having fun with another guy or even with my girfriends at a bar or party. His suggestion was I could stay at his place (by myself) and watch tv till he got home. ha! That's not what I said. What I said was that your response made the issue explosive and was destructive instead of constructive. NO, you weren't supposed to go knitting. He offered for you to go with him, showing you his intentions. I don't blame you for not wanting him to go, I understand that, but threatening to go out with an ex just made the situation worse.
BlueHaiku Posted March 28, 2008 Posted March 28, 2008 Lexi, there are red flags all over all of your posts. As another poster said "there are too many issues here" and it doesn't sound good for the future of your relationship. I'd suggest you get some marriage counseling before you get married. It sounds like you both need to work on understanding each other better and on better communication skills.
hotgurl Posted March 28, 2008 Posted March 28, 2008 Nobody can make anybody be deemed controlling. If you feel the need to restrict someone ability to go wherever they please then it is controlling. What I was trying to say was that while they were fighting he BF pointed out that she was controlling (which she didn't like) so to 'illustrate her point" she brought up seeign the ex. Really she brought up seeing the ex to take a dig at him because she knew it already upsets him. I do agree with the above. I would let my NF go to strip cluns an occasional guys night out is fun. If it was a habit than that is anotehr matter.
NuTuDating Posted March 28, 2008 Posted March 28, 2008 but these fights illustrate a bigger problem. That you guys don't have great communication and conflict solving skills. Which makes a huge difference in marriages. Didn't we just have a thread about sterotyping and sexism!?!?!?! Honestly, in this situation, do you feel that her communication was any better? She basically took a heated argument and threw a can of gas on it. Again, I don't see how this relationship would work from either person's point of view. He feels the need to go to a strip club, which doesn't say too much about him, and she threatens to hook up with an ex for dinner. Both real mature in the communication department.
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