I kissed someone - coping?

[datingmum]

Well, last night a very nice man kissed me, and I kissed him back! I know he's not 'the one', but I've known him for a while and to be honest, I just got so mad yesterday about the situation, I thought, WHY NOT?

 

I mean, my ex just WILL NOT EVEN COMMIT TO SAYING WHETHER WE'RE ON A BREAK AND SORTING THINGS OUT OR IF IT'S OVER FOR GOOD.

 

Is this a healthy step in recovery/coping? Is it a small step away? Or am I just deluding myself and have done a really stupid thing?

[pigeonsid]

Good for you! I say this is a good step in recovering. I think that just freeing your brain up and letting yourself see yourself with someone else is the first step to getting over the ex. If your ex is going to keep you on a rollercoaster, then it really is up to you to say - no, I'm not playing by these rules any longer, and to step off.

 

Sometimes you also have to get out there and look around to give you some perspective on what your relationship was. For instance - about 2 months after my ex left me, I had a really nice guy come into my life. No spark whatsoever for me - we are just going to stay friends - but the way he treated me made me realise just how much crap I had been taking. It was nice to have a guy treat me really well, and to know that I shouldn't expect less than that. Unfortunately, no spark whatsoever, even though this is the sort of guy I really should be with - but it was a good reminder that I should raise my standards and not be so grateful for any bit of affection that I get.

 

If your ex is not committing to anything, then you are not in a relationship with him and you don't owe him anything. And if he is stupid enough to let you go, then he deserves it. Don't stay faithful to someone who is taking you for granted - it's just not worth it in the end.

[datingmum]

i WAS feeling guilty. I was also worried I might be just diverting attention from my own healing and trying to build my sense of self.

 

i'm one of those 'have always had someone' sorts and my biggest challenge is to learn to love being on my own.

 

Given that the other guy lives an hour and half away though... I guess just a gentle diversion and reminder.

 

I didn't state this earlier but, though we didn't end up doing anything sexually (not for his lack of trying! ) we did sleep in the same bed. He was sweet adn it was just so nice to feel human contact.

 

Oh well. Another lesson learned.

 

My ex would be crushed. HE'D REALLY BE PISSED! My girlfriends were laughingly trying to think of a way to 'let him know' but that's just bs, isn't it?

[Kamille]

Well you are in limbo and have been there for awhile. Yes, kissing someone else is a way of trying to move on. Your situation sounds painful Datingmum. Maybe what you could do is make the decision to end things with your ex, even though you still love him. Your first loyalties are to yourself and your own well being. Does your ex realize how hard this is for you?

[pigeonsid]

Yeah - don't bother to let him know about it. If it comes up later, then you can just tell him that if he doesn't want to be in a relationship, then he can't expect you to act as though you're in a relationship.

 

If you're someone who's always been with someone else and needs time to be on her own and figure out who you really are, then I say don't get involved in a relationship right now and take that space. But I really do think that rebounds can be helpful and sort of be shortcuts into getting over relationships. (As long as you don't make the mistake of falling into another relationship immediately.) Use them as diversions and reminders (and make sure you're not misleading the other person) and it's all good. And as I found with my rebound - it was awful at first because it really forced me to confront the fact that my relationship was over and I didn't have to be faithful to my ex any more, but that in itself was an important step. If I hadn't forced myself into having the rebound (and he was a wonderful guy - I don't regret rebounding onto him at all) then I would still be sitting in bed with a box of tissues, waiting for my ex to come back to me. It's been 4 months - my ex has not made any effort to contact me at all - I'm now really grateful that I didn't waste all that time just waiting around for him. Sure, my rebound didn't work out into a real relationship, but neither of us were in any shape to have a good relationship anyway. And he has shown me that there are definitely other fish in the sea.

[datingmum]

Yes. He knows I've had a nervous breakdown twice over the past year. He knows that I'm finding it difficult just to cope at all. He knows that everything is suffering - work, my children, life generally.

 

The problem is that he is also going through the same thing. Today he is at a funeral for his grandma, which he's not too torn up over, but will have to support his mother. I know it will make him sad. I know he will think of me. But I think, and he has said, that he feels like he is drowning himself. Also, he is reluctant to say one way or the other (break or over) because he feels I will hold it up in a court of law and tear him down over it if things don't work. I have done this. But still, come on, wouldn't anyone feel this way?

 

I guess that's what I was trying to do - recover a bit. I'm so frustrated. ~Therapy, self help books, this forum, the internet have all been great in learning about stuff, but to be honest, I want it to go more quickly. I guess that's why I thought "what the heck!" last night. I rarely get the opportunity to go out and be in the presence of another man these days. In fact, sitting in pining has done nothing but anger me in the long run because I just want him to HURRY UP AND SORT HIMSELF OUT.

 

I feel as if my life is not my own. I do not WANT to make that decision, but I suppose I have made decision to move on, even in a small way.

 

Please don't think badly of me, kamille. I am so happy for you and your guy. I am really rooting for you.

[datingmum]

Hi there.

 

Yes, you're right about rebound thing. But there's no chance of this developing into anything because 1. he lives ages away 2. he is also coming out of a bitter divorce a year ago 3. he's great but not the one for me and 4. most importantly, I am in love with my ex.

 

This new guy, he knows where I'm coming from and vice versa, so it's all cool. i think we just appreciated contact for itself.

[Kamille]

Yes. He knows I've had a nervous breakdown twice over the past year. He knows that I'm finding it difficult just to cope at all. He knows that everything is suffering - work, my children, life generally.

 

The problem is that he is also going through the same thing. Today he is at a funeral for his grandma, which he's not too torn up over, but will have to support his mother. I know it will make him sad. I know he will think of me. But I think, and he has said, that he feels like he is drowning himself. Also, he is reluctant to say one way or the other (break or over) because he feels I will hold it up in a court of law and tear him down over it if things don't work. I have done this. But still, come on, wouldn't anyone feel this way?

 

I guess that's what I was trying to do - recover a bit. I'm so frustrated. ~Therapy, self help books, this forum, the internet have all been great in learning about stuff, but to be honest, I want it to go more quickly. I guess that's why I thought "what the heck!" last night. I rarely get the opportunity to go out and be in the presence of another man these days. In fact, sitting in pining has done nothing but anger me in the long run because I just want him to HURRY UP AND SORT HIMSELF OUT.

 

I feel as if my life is not my own. I do not WANT to make that decision, but I suppose I have made decision to move on, even in a small way.

 

Please don't think badly of me, kamille. I am so happy for you and your guy. I am really rooting for you.

 

I don't think badly of you at all DM. I was ready to throw it the towel last week and bf and I have only been trying to figure out this second chance thing for a month. The ambiguity is really difficult to handle. It is a draining emotional rollercoaster and I think you've been riding it since October right? (Well second chance since January?).

 

I'm here for you DM.

[datingmum]

Cheers my dear.

 

He left the home last May, broke the engagment, and we've been together/apart since then really. But yet, officially sept/oct I guess, when I stayed with him while my house was being renovated.

 

I have to admit, our fighting was terrible. I have taken this opportunity to stand back and really evaluate how much I contributed to our multitude of breakups. I understand my part and I am working on the underlying self esteem issues that contribute to my bad behaviour/communication. All I want from his is the same admission (which to be honest, he has said) but then to commit to making it right, both individually and together.

 

i just want him to say it! that's it!

[LucreziaBorgia]

1. Well, last night a very nice man kissed me, and I kissed him back! I know he's not 'the one', but I've known him for a while and to be honest, I just got so mad yesterday about the situation, I thought, WHY NOT?

 

2. I mean, my ex just WILL NOT EVEN COMMIT TO SAYING WHETHER WE'RE ON A BREAK AND SORTING THINGS OUT OR IF IT'S OVER FOR GOOD.

 

3. Is this a healthy step in recovery/coping? Is it a small step away? Or am I just deluding myself and have done a really stupid thing?

 

1. It is good that you found some comfort, but I wouldn't suggest making a habit out of going out with him for the reasons that you are. It would not be fair to him, and you would be setting yourself up to get deeper and deeper in and eventually mired in guilt because you can't reciprocate his feelings.

 

2. What he is refusing to say is what is heard loudest of all - his indecision IS his decision. He had decided that not deciding anything or telling you is his best option. By not choosing any one option, he keeps all of his options wide open. He made his choice, time to make yours: you can choose to stay stuck in his indecisive purgatory or you can tell him that you love him and care for him, but that you can't be with a man who has to give apparent serious thought as to whether he wants to be with you or not. Tell him that you want a man who wants you, chooses you and doesn't have to "think" about it. Tell him if he ever becomes that man to give you a call, otherwise let him know that you are walking away and he needs to let you go.

 

It will hurt - but which is the lesser of the hurts? A clean break followed by healing, or a messy, painful infection that just lingers and lingers and lingers...

 

3. Rebounding is a common part of recovery, but I wouldn't go so far as to say its a healthy one. The best thing would be to find a way to clear your head and your heart, and give yourself a chance to really clear that infection out - otherwise, a new guy right now wouldn't do you much more good than putting a bandaid over a painful, gaping, infected wound.

 

Stupid? Nah. I can understand it. Just be careful and don't get yourself into anything that you will have a hard time getting out of.

[datingmum]

Lucrezia,

 

You are, as ever, to the point.

 

I just have to keep beating it into my hopeful little head.

[datingmum]

so let me be clear,

 

you think I should actually say that to him? or will my silence be the best way to say that? I've probably said that same thing a million times before, he won't even believe me.

[LucreziaBorgia]

I would be crystal clear about it on no uncertain terms. He may see silence with no explanation as a way to be 'off the hook' temporarily and will use it as a 'break time' before he tries to come around again. If you are clear about it before you walk away he will know that indecision may be his way of doing things, but certainly not yours.

 

Sometimes silence is the best way and it speaks volumes, but not to people who can't or won't listen to it, or will simply ignore it. Some people need it spelled out to them.

[datingmum]

yes, he always has and will think i'm 'on the hook' while he is able to sit back and let it all go. The only time he seriously freaked out and considered losing me was when I told him 5 weeks ago "please do not contact me, I am healing and need to know you will not be calling or texting etc) and that I'd joined an online dating site to create a psychological line in the sand. After a week, i started feeling stronger and wondered what the time had done for him, so I rang to say hello.

 

He then began calling/texting nearly every day. When I was vague about my whereabouts, he started going crazy/jealousy etc. He'd also been asking me to come to his house for a coffee, but I just did not want to be alone with him in his home. It felt more fun and emotionally safer to meet in public. Which we did. It went great, but nothing was said about future other than him kissing/touching me. He kept contacting me until he asked me to dinner last Monday, which went tragically wrong from about 2 minutes in. Leading to this....

 

He has just agreed to go to see my therapist - whom I originally wanted us to see as a couple and still do.

 

Basically, what I am saying is that I think you are right, he will be able to do nothing so long as I just sit here. If I tell him this, then hopefully he'll realise I'm serious again. Is it just as applicable given that he is going to go to therapy?

[LucreziaBorgia]

1. If I tell him this, then hopefully he'll realise I'm serious again.

 

2. Is it just as applicable given that he is going to go to therapy?

 

1. Yes, but only if you can make yourself not 'call to check in'. That is like closing the door, then going back and leaving a crack open there for him. He counts on this. It is what enables him to not have to make any real decisions, except to decide to be 'undecided'.

 

2. I would treat his therapy as a separate issue for now. It is good that he is talking to someone, but it sounds like he has a lot to work out on his end first before the things between you and him can be resolved.

[datingmum]

Many thanks for your response.

 

This breakup (laughable to even call it that at this stage, there have been so many mini dramas) was sparked off by some crazy, irrational jealous even verbally and mentally abusive behaviour on my part. I SERIOUSLY NEEDED THIS WAKE UP CALL TO FIX THOSE PARTS OF MYSELF. When conversations splitsville started, he said many things " i don't love you anymore, i don't want to be together." I said "we can fix the jealousy bit, I will do the work. if you want space for a while, a break from a full on relationship while we work hard on ourselves, then let's do it!" He said the breakup wasn't 'just about the jealousy" and launched on a tirade of other issues, many of which are his own. He still wouldn't play ball. That is why i initiated no contact. In those few days before I decided to do that, he had started saying that he 'didn't mean the nasty things he said' but would not elaborate if that extended to the ACTUAL breakup or what. I was either going to crack under the strain or go underground and sort myself out.

 

The crack in the door philosophy has gotten me nowhere. I did call to check in after the first period of no contact, to give my final words, which were along the lines of what you have directed. Then he just started texting/phoning/emailing once a day and asking me for coffee. So of course I thought "he's heard what I've said and has changed his mind". But the words never came. All I got was a flashpoint of anger and more of the same about-face behaviour.

 

At that time I honestly felt I needed to work on myself. Which I did and am doing. Now I am coming to feel that HE isn't working on his issues.

 

He has now gone back on his actions that belied reconciliation, saying they were simple "affections" and "what happens when two people who love one another split".

 

Such bollocks!

 

The answer is YES it can work, but only if he also does the WORK!

[sedona]

What he is refusing to say is what is heard loudest of all - his indecision IS his decision. He had decided that not deciding anything or telling you is his best option. By not choosing any one option, he keeps all of his options wide open. He made his choice, time to make yours: you can choose to stay stuck in his indecisive purgatory or you can tell him that you love him and care for him, but that you can't be with a man who has to give apparent serious thought as to whether he wants to be with you or not. Tell him that you want a man who wants you, chooses you and doesn't have to "think" about it. Tell him if he ever becomes that man to give you a call, otherwise let him know that you are walking away and he needs to let you go.

 

Amen.

 

I spent a few melodramatic months trying to get this very same thought out of my mouth and into my guy's head. I wish I had been strong enough to say it as clearly as this. Without the accompanying tears.

 

Being with me should be a no-brainer.

[datingmum]

I am going to write the above phrases down and read them nearly verbatim when I ring him to talk about it.

 

I have been trying all this evening, but he is not answering. Who knows why. I could just send it in a text, but how ridiculous is that?

[datingmum]

So he texts me after finally picking up his phone to several missed calls and a few texts...

 

"Really sorry babe, phone was on silent all day and I was not expecting to hear from you. (I told him I wouldn't be in contact - but have decided to have the conversation Lucrezia suggested above) Just saw the light flashing. No need to worry about me, I am fine."

 

me: "Ok. Good. Look, I know it's late but would you tell me what's going on in your head?"

 

him: "Just reading all your texts. Look, I'm in bed already, I don't want to get into this now, I'm sorry. I know it will make you angry, but I will call over the weekend and we can talk then...You know I still care for you! I don't want you staying up all night over this!"

 

me: (and I actually don't know where the hell my head was when I said this) "Not angry or staying up for that. Just hungry for some c*ck"

 

I have no idea what came over me there. Well, I do. I'm just realising how awful it is to have no sex. I have NEVER gone this long without in my whole sexual adulthood! Plus guys, without getting graphic, there is little chance that I will EVER connect with someone sexually the way we did. We have very unusual and eclectic tastes that almost never occur in conjunction, seriously. I'm am hugely reluctant to let that go. Maybe, if things don't work out, one day I could get to the stage where I could just 'use him;'. ha hahah. joking of course.

 

Anyway, I woke up pissed off again by the 'brush off" - I'll call you 'over the weekend'. Am I just being too needy? Am I justified in being mad?

 

And what does - you know I still care for you mean exactly....we are a on a break while we sort things out in therapy, etc or you know I care but I don't want to pursue things?

 

When I speak to him, should I tell him I've already started dating which is why I want to know... because I have some decisions to make. Like this: "Look, I've taken your indecision as your decision and I started dating last week. But I felt confused, to be beginning something new while having no real idea what you and I are trying to do here" It just puts all the power in his hands and isn't even the truth really. The truth is "I went out and let some guy kiss me and slept in his bed but it wasn't the same, comfortable and nice, but NOT the same. I will go down that path if you want me to, with little difficulty as I do get asked out alot, but I wanted to let you know before I take the step to the other side soon" I have never been able to have casual sex guys but I'm seriously starting to consider it. Even the well-endowed exhubby has sprung to mind! ugh.

[LucreziaBorgia]

I would stick with just this:

 

"Look, I've taken your indecision as your decision and I started dating last week.

 

Instead of this (passive):

 

But I felt confused, to be beginning something new while having no real idea what you and I are trying to do here" It just puts all the power in his hands and isn't even the truth really. The truth is "I went out and let some guy kiss me and slept in his bed but it wasn't the same, comfortable and nice, but NOT the same. I will go down that path if you want me to, with little difficulty as I do get asked out alot, but I wanted to let you know before I take the step to the other side soon"

 

try this (assertive):

 

"When you figure out what it is you want, give me a call. Otherwise, I think we should go ahead and make this break a breakup since you don't know what you want."

 

The last thing you want is to say you are moving on in one breath, and plead for him to stay in the other. The threats will be empty, and the pleas will be his assurance that you aren't really serious about moving on.

 

Then, follow through. It won't be easy, but it can't be any harder than being stuck in this purgatory.

[Kamille]

Hi datingmum,

 

I understand how, given the situation, you would act impulsively and start a somewhat rifed conversation on the phone, when he made it clear that he wasn't ready for a conversation.

 

You are giving him too much power. I know you're hurt, restless and would like those feelings to go away, but it's always best to have the kind of discussion you want to have, in person, at a moment when you are feeling calm (say after you've hit the gym).

 

I think you're too invested in wanting one outcome: him giving you a second chance, to focus on your own well being.

 

Your well being has to be your priority. What are you doing for yourself? To keep yourself happy? What relaxes you?

[datingmum]

thanks guys.

 

I'm worried if I mention the date bit first, I'll get a reaction based on fear and anger though. Thought about switching it round so at least i get to hear his answer about break vs breakup first before I drop that bomb.

 

And kamille, I agree. Can't seem to move on at all. I AM DOING NOTHING for my wellbeing. NOTHING AT ALL. just wallowing in this, on the web, reading/writing. Not enjoying anything and can barely be motivated to eat. It's bad. I just want to stop it all and for some stupid reason, I feel he is integral in helping me get to that. Even if the response from him is "no second chance" then at least I can start from ground zero. At least I have somewhere to start from.

 

As it is, my perceptions are leading me to believe that I am stuck, spinning out.

 

going to take the kids to the cinema in a bit though. be nice to get out of my bathrobe.

 

wish me luck guys, I know it's pathetic.

[carhill]

Get out of your bathrobe and kiss more

 

Nothing wrong with a little coping. Let's you know you're alive. Enjoy the cinema!

[pigeonsid]

Datingmum- it sounds as though you have already made the decision to break with him. Don't let the sex thing make you cling onto your ex - I also had the best sexual chemistry with my ex, but my rebound showed me that I am going to have good sex again. The main thing is that when you are in love with a person, the sex rocks. It isn't about what your preferences are or how well-matched your preferences are to your partners. When two people are in love, they love to please each other.

 

You've mentioned that you've started to think that this isn't going to work if he doesn't work on his issues. I think this is a really significant step - what you're doing is starting to reject him, or to attribute the problems to him, not just taking on the blame for yourself. If you're feeling a bit out of control and powerless then take control of this situation and walk away from him - walk away and just tell him that he needs to sort himself out before you'll even consider being with him again. You don't have to tell him you've already kissed someone else. Just know that you have, and that you have other options. Let that give you the strength to walk away from this guy, and start thinking about you instead.

[datingmum]

Well, he never rang. I finally rang him. He gave a big boring speech about how he didn't think it was appropriate to keep having the same painful conversations over and over again, that of course he'd wanted it to work, but history shows us that it wouldn't (duh! we have to sort our heads out genius!) and that of course he "loves the picture I paint, of being a happy family, having a sexy intelligent beautiful partner, having our own child - of course I want those things but we just can't seem to get along".

 

After a bit, i started butting in (he hates this, calls it interrupting and harangues me for quite a while if I make a peep after a 5 minute speech - dumbass! He interrupts me all the time! Just one of his annoying habits) to say "yeah, it isn't working because you're not working"

 

He STILL WOULD NOT SAY IT'S OVER! I would keep saying "okay then, that's how you feel, i was getting mixed messages from you about therapy, date, kissing me etc etc and because I know you're in love with me, so if you're minds so made up, why didn't you just tell me earlier it's over?" him : "well, i just didn't want to go through the agony of it again" "ok then, so tell me now it's over" HE WOULDN'T! Bloody ridiculous. I then tell him I started dating last week! He says something like "oh yeah, that's nice. is it all about the sex then for you"

 

Then he said he resented how I said he wouldn't 'try' in the relationship, he said he tried immensely. I said "well, we both needed to be trying and we weren't, I discovered some serious stuff about my issues and I'm sorting it" He also said he didn't have a 'pathological' problem with commitment - it's just we fought too much. Yeah, we did! Because I had issues, but he kept sabotaging things too with his anger and insecurity. Then we got into a stupid he said/she said autopsy of our last date and why things went wrong.

 

Eventually my phone battery died.

 

i sat there for 5 minutes thinking screw this. I'm on the other end of a phone sitting there waiting for HIM to tell me how he feels! I'm sitting here, shaking waiting on him to tell me he loves me and wants me back! I'm giving HIM the power to make or break my well being! It's ridiculous!

 

So I waited a bit and texted him back. I said " Our last date - we were too raw and your birthday being that weekend piled on the pressure. I don't care about this sh*t. It is not what I wanted to talk about. We're angry and arguing because we both love one another but can't seem to get it together with our mutual bad behaviour. Let's stop the war. Right now. I need to be more patient, you need to give more."

 

So he rings me back. We have a really fun nothing conversation, then I say "so are you gonna do it then? ring me and have fun and stop talking about all this negative stuff. And you need to respect me - call when you say you're going to and be fun and book in advance, my diary is filling up!" he said "yes, I will." I said "Good. Because I really need to have sex soon." Then we talked about that for a minute, and then he said "so you're saying if we have fun and talk and then go out on a few dates, that you'll let me have sex with you" in a joking way. and I said "yes! that is precisely what I mean" then we said goodnight and he said he was going away to "think" wink wink about our conversation. Sweet dreams.

 

Screw it! I'm not going to feel bad just because I approached him. I did wig out many many many times and it was not pretty or fair behaviour. I know it's 50/50 between us. So, I'm not too proud to tell him how I feel and stop playing the dumb "rules" on him.

 

I am also having loads of success on my internet dating site! There is another really funny very gorgeous guy I'm chatting with - only he lives 160 miles away! Plus a brilliant dancer French guy called me up and asked me out last saturday. Plus, the guy whom I had the kissing fun with is texting me too! Whoopee!!!!