Lack of Sex

March 29, 2008

Can anyone speak to this?

My wife and I met 16 years ago. Our sex drives seemed compatible for about two months. Even after that there was occasional great sex. However, over a period of 8-10 years she successfully whittled me down to once a month. Wait a minute. You haven't heard the funny part yet. She then proceeded to enter an early menopause.

Now, I realize she had no control over that. Nor its subsequent effect on her sex drive. And I've always considered myself a sensitive, modern guy. So I researched the stuffing out of the process and determined that I could tough it out. After all, some women presumably become more responsive after the change. I put on a smile and tried to be sympathetic. But after several months without even the prospect of intimacy it felt more like just, pathetic.

Well her libido did not return, she completely let herself go and apparently expects me to bid sex goodbye, and like it!

Let me make one thing clear. I still believe she's my soul-mate and love her dearly. I know she cares deeply for me too. That's really the only thing that's kept me from stepping out. But I'm only 46 years old! I don't want to hurt her, yet she seems so callous about my predicament.

Here's my question (and I ask it reluctantly since a female radio co-host and several female callers recently crawled my frame for even suggesting it):

Why should I not play with someone else?

March 29, 2008

There is some really useful stuff on here. I appreciate the thought and respect put into all of these posts, especially, as usual, from Mustang.

This:

I know of a few couples where the sex wasn't all that great even in the beginning of the relationship (according to husband), yet the man proposed and the couple got married. When asked why he proposed if sex was such a big issue, the main response I get is that their wife had all the other qualities they were looking for in a mate. Many of these men love, respect and admire their wives as their best friend and partner in life, so if all other qualities are present, does the sex really matter that much?

Describes my marriage exactly. I'm the wife.

Also, the mechanics Mustang described about how she continued into the marriage in the first place apply almost exactly to me as well.

The rarity of sex didn't matter much to me until about 2-3 years ago when my sex drive increased. It has always bothered my H.

Now it feels like it is too late to fix b/c kids are involved and our lives are so intertwined. But we are not sexually compatible. I can see improving the sex, but it will always be more of a duty to me than a pleasure. I know my H does not want a divorce, though. He has stated he would rather be celibate than divorce. I can't say the same.

I think I'm in this marriage for the kids (and the companionship, emotional support, but mostly the kids) --sh*t, at least that is how it feels today. As Mustang and I have discussed, reality looks/feels different on different days sometimes. Maybe that is an example of female emotionality, but, so be it.

March 29, 2008

So...I DO think it is possible, and nay - even excusable? (for some) - to enter into a marriage when you aren't having fireworks and lightening bolt sex with your partner. I had the mindset that we would explore things together, and that it would surely become/maintain satisfaction for me because I (thought I) was in a mutally pleasing/pleasuring relationship.

For this reason alone I have really tried to convince my kids (oldest now 27) that it's important not to marry too young. If you're not fully developed as a person - sexually or otherwise - then not only do you not fully understand what makes you happy but you often lack the tools to help you figure it out. Some of that only comes from maturity.

Also, one thing that I think gets overlooked in long-term relationships is that their success is often tied more closely to efforts (or personality) of just one of the two partners. For whatever reason, he or she is comfortable being the "facillitator" or "fixer" whose efforts - sexually and otherwise - keep the marriage on a positive track. While I'd love to paint myself in flattering light, in my marriage it's my wife - she is simply an incredibly giving and generous person. While my analytical nature makes it hard for me to reach out if my feelings are hurt, she's the one that makes sure we don't go to sleep angry. This is a 2nd marriage for me and my first wife certainly wasn't that way.

Sometimes I think that success in marriage is like doubles in tennis or Dancing With The Stars - it's all about partner selection ...

Mr. Lucky

March 29, 2008

For this reason alone I have really tried to convince my kids (oldest now 27) that it's important not to marry too young. If you're not fully developed as a person - sexually or otherwise - then not only do you not fully understand what makes you happy but you often lack the tools to help you figure it out. Some of that only comes from maturity.

Based on my experience, I would say the same. I don't think it is going too far to recommend 30 as a better age to consider marriage. With boys/men, for maturity reasons. With girls/women because they need to get a handle on what they want sexually.

Unfortunately my H does not believe in sex before marriage, which is a hard sell if someone is not planning to marry until age 30! I don't think we are going to agree on parenting approaches when it comes to advising out kids on sex and marriage.

March 30, 2008

Sometimes I think that success in marriage is like doubles in tennis or Dancing With The Stars - it's all about partner selection ...

Mr. Lucky

This is my point exactly! Partner selection! Would you give up on your near perfect selected partner just because the sex wasn't good or infrequent?

I don't necessarily think people marry the "Love of their loves" or even their "soul mates" because often these are people we are so passionate about, but for various reasons could not live out a daily life together.

I believe we marry the best partner for us in terms of future goals, morals and values, religious beliefs and mutal interests etc... Someone we are comfortable living out our daily lives for the rest of our lives. These partners, no matter how suitable they are for you, could very well have a non-compatiable sex drive. So is this why people cheat?

March 30, 2008

Would you give up on your near perfect selected partner just because the sex wasn't good or infrequent?

This has been the $64,000 question of my marriage these last few years.

Completely.

Kudos to you, TCMP, because you have nailed it for me in one succinct question.

And the answer that I keep coming to, time and again, is "No."

Others certainly don't understand that about me, or see it the same way. I'm sure many feel like I should quit complaining about it if I'm not willing to do anything (divorce) about it. But...still I am working on working it all out in my mind/mind-set. I'm not finished yet. But I do seem to be making some progress.

I believe we marry the best partner for us in terms of future goals, morals and values, religious beliefs and mutal interests etc... Someone we are comfortable living out our daily lives for the rest of our lives. These partners, no matter how suitable they are for you, could very well have a non-compatiable sex drive. So is this why people cheat?

I think for many, yes. It is why many people cheat.

Sad, no?

March 30, 2008

Now it feels like it is too late to fix b/c kids are involved and our lives are so intertwined. But we are not sexually compatible. I can see improving the sex, but it will always be more of a duty to me than a pleasure.

I think I'm in this marriage for the kids (and the companionship, emotional support, but mostly the kids) --sh*t, at least that is how it feels today.

I'm right there with you, as you know, Story.

March 30, 2008

For this reason alone I have really tried to convince my kids (oldest now 27) that it's important not to marry too young. If you're not fully developed as a person - sexually or otherwise - then not only do you not fully understand what makes you happy but you often lack the tools to help you figure it out. Some of that only comes from maturity.

I certainly think this is true - to a point, Mr. Lucky.

Honestly? I don't think I'm done developing as a person, even now. Do we ever really hit the final destination of personal and/or sexual development before we die? Just how long should I have waited, before I finally realized that I was developed enough to settle down and marry? I thought - at the time - that that was precisely what I had done.

More and more, I think it's really just about how innately flexible - tempermentally speaking - one (or both) person(s) is/are in a relationship. I wonder if some of us are just able to be flexible enough to marry "young" (and I certainly didn't think 24 was that young when I got married) and then roll with whatever life (and relationship) throws us, maintaining enough love to keep us together, despite it all. Hell. You might even call it dumb luck - except I think I know better than that.

March 30, 2008

I actually agree with Lizzie to a degree. Where we differ and diverge, however, is that I don't think lack of sex or "boring" sex is the #1 reason for cheating. I think it can/has to do with any one or a combination of several possible factors, as follows:

1. A lack of character.
2. A lack of values.
3. A lack of morals.
4. A lack of impulse control (read: WEAK!)
5. Looking for affection.
6. Needing a human touch.
7. Wanting to bolster self-esteem.
8. Got drunk!
9. Was railroaded into it.
10. Fell in lust!!!

So my answer to your question is that some, and I would imagine very few, men leave their marriages over issues with their sex lives, or lack thereof. But that is certainly dependent upon whether or not they truly love their wives and the reasons for the lack of "activity." It could be mental, emotional, a combination of the two, etc.

Now if it's because the wife has someone on the side who is fulfilling all her "needs" and she doesn't "need" her husband for that anymore, and her husband discovers it, if he doesn't leave her then he's a wuss!

My problem with this post is that the SUBTEXT states that the husband should just quit being a baby and deal with not having sex. I don't think that's fair. If the marriage is sexless, and it's because of the wife, SHE needs to acknowledge that lack of sex indicates a problem.

My ex gf tried to convince me that us not having sex did not indicate that anything was wrong with our relationship. Brilliant...

March 30, 2008

Would you give up on your near perfect selected partner just because the sex wasn't good or infrequent?

I'm afraid that for me the answer is:

I would leave. I wouldn't cheat, I would leave.

If our sex life wasn't good or was infrequent because he simply didn't want sex, he would not be my near perfect selected partner any longer. The caveat to that would be if the problem was something he was actively working at resolving, or was a physical problem that he had no control over. That would then fall into the "in sickness and in health" part of the vows.

But someone unilaterally deciding that sex "just isn't all that important?" For me, that would be a deal breaker. I would not marry a man who wasn't actively and energetically interested in sex. I wouldn't choose to remain married to a man who decided to change the deal unilaterally and midstream.

On a side-note (but not really) I know a woman who made the choice to stay married to a man who some 20 years ago decided that he didn't want sex anymore. She chose to stay for a great many reasons - none of which really matter. She is one of the most unhappy bitter women I've ever come across.

I hear and read a lot on LS about how sex is "just sex"... IMO that's a crock. Sex is one of our most basic drives. If someone isn't interested in sex but their partner is, then that partner had better be willing to either let that partner have sex with others or had better figure out what is wrong with their own sad self and get it fixed. Otherwise they are cheating their partner of a full life and that IMO is downright cruel.

March 30, 2008

I wonder if some of us are just able to be flexible enough to marry "young" (and I certainly didn't think 24 was that young when I got married)

I also did not feel young at the time I married, but looking back, I can see that I was in certain ways that have come back to bite me. I married at almost precisely the same age you did, Mustang.

I'm afraid that for me the answer is:

I would leave. I wouldn't cheat, I would leave.

If our sex life wasn't good or was infrequent because he simply didn't want sex, he would not be my near perfect selected partner any longer.

The OP is the one who doesn't want sex with her partner, who she views as compatible in most other important ways. What would you do in that case?

March 30, 2008

I wouldn't be in that position, as I would feel that I was cheating both myself and him.

....but....

since we're being hypothetical -

I would tell him that although I loved him, I wasn't completely satisfied sexually and would like to have an open marriage.

Since I would never choose someone who would be willing to accept an open marriage, that would pretty much be that

But if he was crazy enough to accept those circumstances, I guess.....

nah, this is just too far out there for me. I can't think of enough extenuating circumstances.

He just wouldn't/couldn't/shouldn't be my partner. Without sexual energy and attraction between us I would not choose him.

April 3, 2008

Why do you think the sex slows down after a few years? In this case, I will assign the decrease to the woman's lack of "interest," although there certainly are situations where it is the man's impetus, as well.

A few years ago there was a German study that concluded the instant a woman

enters a secure relationship, her sex drive begins to plummet. Four years

in fewer than half of women wanted regular sex. After 20 years, only 20 percent did.

Would you give up on your near perfect selected partner just because the sex wasn't good or infrequent?

I almost did. After a few years the frustration builds to the point where you can't appreciate the qualities that made her near perfect in the first place.

Without intimacy, a near perfect partner is just a good friend.

April 3, 2008

A few years ago there was a German study that concluded the instant a woman
enters a secure relationship, her sex drive begins to plummet. Four years
in fewer than half of women wanted regular sex. After 20 years, only 20 percent did.

Interesting.

I'll take it on faith that this was a credible study.

What reasons were found (or speculated on) for the decrease?

I've got some ideas of my own (based on my personal experience), but I'd like to hear what the science has to say.

I almost did. After a few years the frustration builds to the point where you can't appreciate the qualities that made her near perfect in the first place.

Without intimacy, a near perfect partner is just a good friend.

And a good friend isn't enough, eh?

April 3, 2008

Interesting.
I'll take it on faith that this was a credible study.

What reasons were found (or speculated on) for the decrease?
I've got some ideas of my own (based on my personal experience), but I'd like to hear what the science has to say.

This is the other half. It's interesting too, so I probably should have included it.

The Researchers presented evolutionary explanation. Women's sex drive is initially high to facilitate pair bonding. There is no birth control in nature, so most couples would have had children before the decrease is significant.

The study also found the desire for tenderness showed the opposite trend. Ninety percent of women craved tenderness, but of men who'd been in relationships for ten years, only 25 percent said they wanted the same from their partner.

I read the article in a reputable magazine. I'm sure there are studies that present other theories.

And a good friend isn't enough, eh?

Friendship is important, but no it's not enough for a marriage. As much as I love my wife, I need to feel loved. I need intimacy for that.

April 3, 2008

And a good friend isn't enough, eh?

There's one big difference: You don't have sex with friends (well, maybe some do, but not me, lol). If I wanted a good friend and no sex I'd find a roomate. He probably wouldn't require a card and candy on Valentine's Day or calls from me just to see how his day is going.

I've gotta side with Horse.

April 3, 2008

"Lack of" is just one of the issues I see in my marriage, and to add to that, quality of (to me) has always been lacking, although I felt (and still do) that it would be unfair or cruel to tell her that it is not really doing it for me. I don't think that a marriage needs bringin-down-the-house sex 3-4 times per week in order to keep the relationship healthy... but I would also not turn that down . But, I do think that both partners need to have satisfying sex that meets their own needs in order for a healthy relationship, and this is where much of the disconnect happens when people complain about their sex life. Women like to be held, men want their hot and wanton s!$tty sex kitten. Each partner really should be willing to try and fulfill their partner's expectations (provided they don't feel it is degrading) - and each partner should be able to communicate their needs. But, its not always easy to say what want to do to your partner though... and it is not always easy to hear what your partner wants to do to you. It can be quite embarrassing depending on an individuals likes and dislikes, and nobody really wants to make the one they chose to spend their life with feel uneasy or inadequate. And the communication breakdown often begins here.

I do think that experiencing different partners before choosing your mate is a good way to learn about yourself, and be a better partner. I was patient and have tried to suggest a few things to do (nothing vow breaking or pushing limits), but I don't think she was comfortable with those ideas. I tried giving her time to develop that side of her, but it does not seem to be happening. I don't think she ever really wanted to develop much more than "I want to be held, need some tenderness, etc etc." and I don't think she will change. So the sex life is - in my opinion - whatever her preferences are.

I still maintain that sex is not the main dissatisfaction in my marriage, but it is the easiest issue to define. I am not sure if lack of, or lack of good sex would make me leave. I don't think so.. but I don't think it is fair to make your partner wait for their needs to be met (and I've been waiting a long time now).

On the flip side - if sex was good in the marriage, but we never did anything other than that to reconnect, no time spent just as a couple doing other activities, or always fighting, or not appreciated, etc etc. I would leave that relationship.

April 3, 2008

It's sad when couple keep count of who initiated sex last or most. Thats when I really got the slap in the face that our marriage has issues.

I am not hung up on looks, I like the way my husband looks, I mean he's not to die for hotty not is he gross. He's not too much overweight and has beautiful blue eyes, he's a nice looking guy but I don't feel that he returns the feelings. He never kisses me and I know I don't have bad breath I brush all the time! But there has never been a initimate connection there, so I have to wonder if I put off that vibe and turned him off? He denies ever wanting to leave me, so I hope I am right in saying he is one of the guys that won't leave or cheat until we can right things between us.

April 3, 2008

Just a little more on the differences in sex-pectations between couples... and I am typing this quickly so it may sound a little disjointed, and even thoughtless in some places... honestly I don't mean to sound rude... sorry in advance. Consider this a brain dump.

It does seem that the playing field for sexual desires is not a level playing field. And I am speaking in general terms here, but typically, the women like gentle tender loving sex. Men - we want to get off and we want it hot, fast, raunchy and steamy. We are visual creatures, which explains why most men have no problems with the porn industry. But, we also know that many women object to the porn industry as they say it objectifies women.

It is very easy for a woman cuddle up to her man after some gentle loving sex - nobody will have negative response to this. But if the man wants to have a night of porn-like sex with his woman, now we have this conflict to deal with...

How can we - as loving men/husbands express our desire to "objectify" the woman in our life during our next session. How would it sound to say "honey I love you, but I really want to just &^&*^&^&* and then *&^^%^, followed by a little ***(*^%^%.

I just don't think that message would be well received - or at least that is the impression I get from society. I am not saying I want to be hard-core every time... but I do think that if she had been more willing to entertain some of my hard-core desires (and no... I doubt they would be things that would be cause for shock and disgust, but yes, it is suitable material for a porn movie).

April 3, 2008

"Lack of" is just one of the issues I see in my marriage, and to add to that, quality of (to me) has always been lacking, although I felt (and still do) that it would be unfair or cruel to tell her that it is not really doing it for me.

In my opinion if it has always been this way, then you shouldn't expect more. It's who she was before you got married. It's who she is after.

That doesn't mean you can't improve your sex life. It just means that you have to accept that it might not happen.

I still maintain that sex is not the main dissatisfaction in my marriage, but it is the easiest issue to define. I am not sure if lack of, or lack of good sex would make me leave. I don't think so.. but I don't think it is fair to make your partner wait for their needs to be met (and I've been waiting a long time now).

It's also unfair to change the rules of the game after it has started. If she was boring in bed when you married her, you can't expect her to become a sex kitten after.

You can ask though.

April 3, 2008

It's sad when couple keep count of who initiated sex last or most. Thats when I really got the slap in the face that our marriage has issues.

In the beginning, I'd always be the initiator. And then it was sex that lack luster, but I was hoping it would get better over time as she discovered this new side to her.

Then life begins to happen, and sex was or if only after the important things were taken care of. Time spent as a couple, including sex, was not a priority. And this has gone on for a long time now. Eventually, I gave up trying to initiate things.

I think she is waking up a little now, and I give her credit - she has tried to initiate things recently, but the session was very strange, and so passionless and almost scripted, that I felt very uncomfortable. It really felt like I was doing something that I should not be doing (and not in a good way).

April 3, 2008

In my opinion if it has always been this way, then you shouldn't expect more. It's who she was before you got married. It's who she is after.

That doesn't mean you can't improve your sex life. It just means that you have to accept that it might not happen.

It's also unfair to change the rules of the game after it has started. If she was boring in bed when you married her, you can't expect her to become a sex kitten after.

You can ask though.

All valid points... but what if she was a virgin when she got married. Should her sex persona be the same after marriage? Should her sex persona improve and develop. I have been patient and tried to let her develop this side of her, and I am not an unfair/unaccomodating sex partner. Same rationale for the woman that marries a virgin male - less common I'd assume, but it does happen.

I don't hold things like this over her head, and I don't use this in an argument with her. Like I said - it is not the big reason for my dissatisfaction in my marriage.

Edited April 3, 2008 by Gibson

April 3, 2008

"Lack of" is just one of the issues I see in my marriage, and to add to that, quality of (to me) has always been lacking, although I felt (and still do) that it would be unfair or cruel to tell her that it is not really doing it for me.

I don't think she ever really wanted to develop much more than "I want to be held, need some tenderness, etc etc." and I don't think she will change. So the sex life is - in my opinion - whatever her preferences are.

What are you going to do about it? Sit around trying to be understanding and wait for her to change herself?

It's pretty clear that she won't decide to change things on her own. She doesn't care right now about what you need. How do you plan to change that?

April 3, 2008

What are you going to do about it? Sit around trying to be understanding and wait for her to change herself?

It's pretty clear that she won't decide to change things on her own. She doesn't care right now about what you need. How do you plan to change that?

That is part of my dilemna. Yes it upsets me and it contributes to the issues. I don't want to be a prick, or viewed as a "typical male" and dwell on my poor sex life. I am trying to be a bigger person than that. I am trying to see past this, but after a long time, it is not easy. I know I can't change someone - someone has to want to change. I would be surprised if she felt satisfied in the relationship though. Still, it is hard for me to bring up the topic for discussion. I am not sure if it is just difficult, or I am not ready to, or I don't feel the need to discuss it with her anymore.

April 3, 2008

My problem with this post is that the SUBTEXT states that the husband should just quit being a baby and deal with not having sex. I don't think that's fair. If the marriage is sexless, and it's because of the wife, SHE needs to acknowledge that lack of sex indicates a problem.

My ex gf tried to convince me that us not having sex did not indicate that anything was wrong with our relationship. Brilliant...

:laugh::laugh:....Sounds like my H.

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