the dangling conversation

[Kamille]

Growing up my dad did tell me over and over again that I was a bad person. He would tell me things a father should never tell his child. He called me a monster, an ugly person, sick, twisted, evil. He told me he wasn't surprised I had no friends and he pitied any person who ever got involved with me. My mother would jump to my defence and tell him not to say such things, but I started believing his words anyway because he spoke them with such conviction.

 

To be fair I was a very difficult child. I was obstinate and would cause a fit at times when I didn't get my way. I would often get into fights with my mother (I even slapped her a few times when I was six or seven, which prompted her to take me to therapy), but was always very respectful of my father because he scared the bejeezus out of me. It was usually during fights with my mother that my father would call me names or hit me. He was verbally abusive, but I wouldn't call the hitting abuse except for a couple of times when he left welts on my legs.

 

When my parents separated for a year (I was ten), my uncle moved in and he treated me in a similar way. It was this weird love/hate relationship because I idealized him, but we also butted heads all the time. He was verbally (but not physically) abusive and sometimes put me in the closet as a punishment.

 

I've often wondered if this has shaped the type of guy I'm attracted to, or the way I feel about myself as a person.

 

Yikes! Shadow, have you ever discussed this with a therapist? Behavioural-cognitive might help you unlearn some of the thought patterns you have internalized.

[shadowplay]

I give up (on the relationship).

 

I basically have the same attitude as Kamille at this point.

 

I won't break things off, but I won't try either because putting in effort is just causing us both more pain.

 

If he wants me he knows where to find me.

Edited April 1, 2008 by shadowplay

[DanielMadr]

I admit I havent read it all.

 

Few things are clear.

 

1. We dont hate you. We dont care that much

 

2. Opposite of Love is Power and you two are at your throats

 

3. Non-egoistical people know when to End it. They dont see it as a defeat, quite the contrary.

 

4. Are you happy? No? End it. It wont get any better - there is too much bad blood and resentful memories

 

5. Most problems we create in relationships are caused by our deep rooted trauma, issue or whatever. Search it and destroy it before it destroys you.

 

6. World can be a nice place.....sandy beaches, sun sets, trees, fresh wind, people we love or at least can stand.....but unfortunatelly you wont be here for long if you dont count those days with diaper, glasses like telescope and hip made of something what NASA throwed away and noisy ungrateful children and grandchildren who has to be paid to plant you a kiss.

 

Make some good memories NOW.

[shadowplay]

I admit I havent read it all.

 

Few things are clear.

 

1. We dont hate you. We dont care that much

 

 

Gee, thanks...

[shadowplay]

I have a question for you guys.

 

How can I ever respect myself after what I did or feel that I deserve better?

 

I fear that even if I try to change myself and become a better person what I did to my bf will always prevent me from respecting myself.

 

He basically indicated to me last night that he has no respect for me anymore. Why should I, then, have any respect for myself? How do I rub out the scarlet letter on my soul?

Edited April 1, 2008 by shadowplay

[DanielMadr]

I have a question for you guys.

 

How can I ever respect myself after what I did or feel that I deserve better?

 

I fear that even if I try to change myself and become a better person what I did to my bf will always prevent me from respecting myself.

 

He basically indicated to me last night that he has no respect for me anymore. Why should I, then, have any respect for myself? How do I rub out the scarlett letter on my soul?

 

You need to learn to love yourself. Or you wont be able to love thy neighbour - not speaking about thy lover.

 

You know who you are. You admited you made a mistake thats the first step. Dont be too hard on yourself. You are doing like you killed someone, geeez.

 

Say Im sorry - and mean it. Give your self some spanking and promise you wont do it again.

 

Dont spank yourself for another 20 years - that would make you sadistic parent.

[Nevermind]

He basically indicated to me last night that he has no respect for me anymore. Why should I, then, have any respect for myself? How do I rub out the scarlett letter on my soul?

 

This is where you have it all wrong.

 

You think: If he doesn't respect me, I am not respectable.

 

The truth is: If you don't respect yourself, why should anybody else?

 

 

 

I fear that even if I try to change myself and become a better person what I did to my bf will always prevent me from respecting myself.

 

A journey always begins with the first step. Not doing it because you fear it might prove futile in the end, is giving up. On you, on life, on hope. Don't allow it. Care for that spark in you that says "I want to be happy. I deserve to be happy." And try to become the person you want to be.

 

I know it's hard and I understand what you're feeling. I despise myself, world would certainly be better without me, but I hope that happiness is out there, if I push myself, if I change to what I want to be. It's not easy and more often than not it's painful. But the alternative is defeat, and who wants that?

 

Come on, shadowplay. You are bright, insightful, pretty, you are young and life is full of oportunities. Don't drag yourself down. Learn to love yourself. Step by step. You can do it!

[shadowplay]

This is where you have it all wrong.

 

You think: If he doesn't respect me, I am not respectable.

 

The truth is: If you don't respect yourself, why should anybody else?

 

 

 

 

A journey always begins with the first step. Not doing it because you fear it might prove futile in the end, is giving up. On you, on life, on hope. Don't allow it. Care for that spark in you that says "I want to be happy. I deserve to be happy." And try to become the person you want to be.

 

I know it's hard and I understand what you're feeling. I despise myself, world would certainly be better without me, but I hope that happiness is out there, if I push myself, if I change to what I want to be. It's not easy and more often than not it's painful. But the alternative is defeat, and who wants that?

 

Come on, shadowplay. You are bright, insightful, pretty, you are young and life is full of oportunities. Don't drag yourself down. Learn to love yourself. Step by step. You can do it!

 

Thanks for the encouragement. That actually means a lot to me, and has brightened my day.

[Kamille]

I have a question for you guys.

 

How can I ever respect myself after what I did or feel that I deserve better?

 

I fear that even if I try to change myself and become a better person what I did to my bf will always prevent me from respecting myself.

 

He basically indicated to me last night that he has no respect for me anymore. Why should I, then, have any respect for myself? How do I rub out the scarlet letter on my soul?

 

Shadow, I think learning to forgive oneself is a life-time process, very much linked to learning to accept yourself.

 

We all make mistakes, we all treat others poorly at times, just as others can treat us poorly. Your boyfriend may never forgive you, but you can work on forgiving those girls who hurt you when you were young, forgiving your dad and forgiving yourself.

 

If I were you I would start by focusing on what you have learned about yourself from this situation, and then focus on how you can grow from the lessons. Get the tools you need to change what can be changed (and have the wisdom to accept the things that can't be changed - it just hit me that I sound like the AA prayer). (Higher power) give me the serenity to accepts the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference).

 

You can change Shadow. You are not trapped, and you are not above forgiveness. It might take a long time for you to heal fully from how things unravelled, to be able to take responsibility for what happened, but you can do both.

 

Shadow, I really wish we lived closer. I really like you. I wish we could go out and have coffee and chat all afternoon. You are in pain right now, you are also doubting yourself, you are focusing on what could have gone differently and that's pretty normal when a relationship ends.

 

Have you seen the movie What the Bleep do we Know? It's new age philosophy, but it helped me understand how our brain works, and why we oftne get stuck in negative thought patterns. It also made me feel like I had the power to change my thought patterns for the better.

 

Forgive yourself Shadow.

[DanielMadr]

Damn. OKAY. .....I respect you ShadowPlay.

[Ariadne]

How can I ever respect myself after what I did or feel that I deserve better? He basically indicated to me last night that he has no respect for me anymore. Why should I, then, have any respect for myself? How do I rub out the scarlet letter on my soul?

 

First of all, I think he does respect you. He is probably just saying that because he is pissed that you went with his friend.

 

He is pushing the button that you keep hearing about here as well.

 

And second, I think you have a lot or respect for yourself because you were very drawned to that guy and you went for it, you explored that possibility, and lived that experience.

 

That took a lot of courage under the circumstances.

 

Another person who doesn't respect himself would say, I really like that guy and he likes me and I'd like to see him, but that is "wrong" or something absolutely retarded like that.

 

And last, you didn't cheat on your bf. You told him from the start and he went along with it.

 

That's what should have happened maybe for you to know that that relationship you had with your bf was no more than those castles that children build in the sand.

[Ariadne]

Btw,

 

Before I'm off to work.

 

What your bf did do was to manipulate you into the "let's keep our holy relationship going" while you explore things with that other guy.

 

So that he could have sex with you in between when you were not having sex with S, which I'm pretty sure you didn't appreciate.

 

But you kept buying into that, since he made sure to make it "all beautiful" when you did see each other, and give you the illusion of what you always wanted.

 

That is, I'll stand by you, I'm nice, we'll get married and have children and a happy life. When that guy is just one big phony.

 

You should have cut him lose, but then, he has the appeal of the illusion and the key to break the monotony of your life.

Edited April 1, 2008 by Ariadne

[Cov]

I have all the sympathy for you and none for your boyfriend, I actually think he is spineless. If my girlfriend came to me and basically asked me for permission to have sex with my friend, I'd say "Yeah, sure, why not? Go for it, but don't expect me to hang around, I'm off to find someone worthy of my affection and time". This is what he should have done with you. Instead he decided to stick around and hung on for far too long and that hasn't done him or you any good.

 

You're relationship is being kept together by cellotape and PVA glue and the sooner it falls apart the better for you both. You clearly aren't compatiable on any level and should just allow each other to continue with life.

Edited April 1, 2008 by Cov

[Kamille]

Posted by Ariadne

 

And second, I think you have a lot or respect for yourself because you were very drawned to that guy and you went for it, you explored that possibility, and lived that experience.

 

That took a lot of courage under the circumstances.

 

Another person who doesn't respect himself would say, I really like that guy and he likes me and I'd like to see him, but that is "wrong" or something absolutely retarded like that.

 

And last, you didn't cheat on your bf. You told him from the start and he went along with it.

 

That's what should have happened maybe for you to know that that relationship you had with your bf was no more than those castles that children build in the sand.

 

You know what, I agree with this all. Your boyfriend is acting resentful. You were keeping him up to date on your every single thoughts. He knew what was going on and he chose to go along with it. You didn't go behind his back the way so many do. I think he's realizing he overstepped his own boundaries and is losing respect for himself.

 

This by no means absolves you of taking responsibility for your part on how things unravelled, but you need to realize that he also played a part in it.

[Cov]

It shouldn't come as a great surprise that her boyfriend (if you could call him that) is resentful of her, I would be if I was in his position (I'll never be in that position). He probably accepted that his girlfriend and friend would get it on regardless of how he felt about it. Added to the fact he had/has is deep attached and involved with Shadowplay probably played apart in him staying through that period.

 

Shadowplay has to accept that she for the majority is to blame, she messed up the relationship and not him. Why is the guy always blamed for relationship break downs? I have no doubt that he played some role in the demise, but he didn't go off and engage with one of Shadowplay's friends, it was her.

[Kamille]

It shouldn't come as a great surprise that her boyfriend (if you could call him that) is resentful of her, I would be if I was in his position (I'll never be in that position). He probably accepted that his girlfriend and friend would get it on regardless of how he felt about it. Added to the fact he had/has is deep attached and involved with Shadowplay probably played apart in him staying through that period.

 

Shadowplay has to accept that she for the majority is to blame, she messed up the relationship and not him. Why is the guy always blamed for relationship break downs? I have no doubt that he played some role in the demise, but he didn't go off and engage with one of Shadowplay's friends, it was her.

 

Cov, I think we agree for the most part. Me saying he is acting resentful isn't the same as saying his emotion is not valid. I was pointing it out so that Shadow had a better grasp on where he was coming from.

 

I also said she needs to take responsibility for her actions.

 

Other then that, I agreed with your previous post that he holds the responsibility for sticking around too long.

[Trialbyfire]

Shadow, you do show strong signs of narcissism, in that you rely on your environment, to validate you. You will do anything, to manipulate your environment, to drain it of validation.

 

Your b/f has lost complete respect and trust for you. I don't blame him one bit. Get some long-term, deep therapy. You desperately need it.

[shadowplay]

Shadow, you do show strong signs of narcissism, in that you rely on your environment, to validate you. You will do anything, to manipulate your environment, to drain it of validation.

 

Your b/f has lost complete respect and trust for you. I don't blame him one bit. Get some long-term, deep therapy. You desperately need it.

 

How so?

 

And if I'm truly narcassistic by nature how can I learn to love myself?

...........

Edited April 1, 2008 by shadowplay

[shadowplay]

One thing I forgot to mention.

 

The other night while we were having sex my bf called up Sean and tried to get me to moan into the phone. I was floored.

 

Obviously I didn't want to do it but was also reluctant to say no since I was trying hard to please him. Sean's voicemail picked up, and I started laughing (but didn't moan) because of the awkwardness of the situation. (I laugh when I'm uncomfortable.)

 

Later my bf said he was a bit annoyed that I hadn't gone along with it.

 

Then he sent Sean a text message that read "I just had sex with your gf. Sorry, dude." Sean responded with something along the lines of "I hope you ****ing die."

 

When we had sex again later that night he took out his cellphone and recorded my sounds. He had this creepy, aggressive expression on his face. Again, I felt extremely uncomfortable with what he was doing but was scared to say no. He was going to email the recording to Sean but luckily lost the file.

 

The way he acted that night really disturbed me.

 

It doesn't seem fair to me or Sean despite what we did. I know I owe a lot to my bf because of what I did. I just don't know where to draw the line between fair and unfair behavior.

 

Nonetheless, the way he acted that night suggests he has very little respect for me, and makes me more convinced that things won't work between us.

[shadowplay]

Btw,

 

Before I'm off to work.

 

What your bf did do was to manipulate you into the "let's keep our holy relationship going" while you explore things with that other guy.

 

So that he could have sex with you in between when you were not having sex with S, which I'm pretty sure you didn't appreciate.

 

But you kept buying into that, since he made sure to make it "all beautiful" when you did see each other, and give you the illusion of what you always wanted.

 

That is, I'll stand by you, I'm nice, we'll get married and have children and a happy life. When that guy is just one big phony.

 

You should have cut him lose, but then, he has the appeal of the illusion and the key to break the monotony of your life.

 

You have an interesting perspective, Ariadne. I've actually come to like you despite us butting heads a few months ago. I like your no nonsense way of seeing the world.

[shadowplay]

Get some long-term, deep therapy. You desperately need it.

 

I just made an appointment with a therapist for next Monday afternoon.

[DanielMadr]

How so?

 

And if I'm truly narcassistic by nature how can I learn to love myself?

...........

 

You are at most seeking for approval from others too much. Parents didnt stroke your hair when you needed it most -> insecurity -> not capable of self validation -> approval seeking

 

Just think it through and stop doing it.

 

1st You are fine, you dont need approval of others

2nd You are not centre of the universe (kids attitude as in everyone hates me)

3rd Get rid of self-pitty

 

Bam. You are cured. You just need to come to it yourself. Thanks to the cruel world btw. If you lived in rough 3rd world country you would be mature on your 14th birthday.....or dead.

[Ariadne]

You have an interesting perspective, Ariadne. I've actually come to like you despite us butting heads a few months ago. I like your no nonsense way of seeing the world.

 

Thank you.

 

Actually, I'm glad that you are still here. I think you are by far the best writer in this forum, and your posts are a delight to read. You have a gift.

 

Don't let people make you feel guilty, you have nothing to feel guilty about.

[Ariadne]

"I just had sex with your gf. Sorry, dude." Sean responded with something along the lines of "I hope you ****ing die." .

 

Step 1. Guilt SP into "not" sleeping with the friend, is the wrong thing etc etc.

 

Step 2. Get SP to continue to have sex with him and in the pseudo relationship, while she is seeing S, by lure of "they have a good thing going"

 

Step 3. Come to the forum and appear the "nice guy," the victim of SP meanness.

 

Step 4. Get SP and S to break up by any antics.

[Advocate's Devilette]

Honestly, shadowplay, I don't think you need therapy or anything. You are just young and don't know what you want. You probably thought you were in love but you weren't.

In college I started a relationship with a guy my sophomore year and stayed with him for 3 more years. Guess what, I cheated on him the whole time and had no remorse over it and he never knew. I thought I loved him, and I loved having a boyfriend for the security and social aspect. It is fun having someone who adores you!

 

That was my very late teens/early 20's. It was a phase and I realize that I wasn't in love at all. I still don't regret the cheating because like I said, I was young, it was simply a 'phase' and I didn't understand what love was. I also got to experience different guys yet still had the security of the boyfriend at the time.

 

That said, I left that phase and never looked back! I have been in real love twice in my life and I know what that is now. I would never cheat now, and I would break up with a man before I cheated on him, because if I had the urge to cheat, that would mean I didn't really love him.