This is what he wrote about the children!

[datingmum]

Okay, I'm so upset. I sent him a text yesterday detailing how the children began to ask after him and were crying and talking to me about the situation for ages yesterday. I wanted him to know/wanted him to have some input given that they love him and haven't seen him for 5 weeks.

 

What you will read following sounds as if it's coming from the most amazingly sorted, no-drama, well integrated man. I am appalled by this in the sense that he is laying ALL the blame at my doorstep and certainly doesn't appear (to me) to want to do anything about it nor does it reference in any way reconciliation. The fighting he talks about is COMING FROM HIM!!! (this last week, but I have been perpetuating it as it was his birthday this weekend and it really hurt to be asked out for dinner and coffee and texted, emailed etc, but NOT be asked for his birthday weekend).

 

This is what the smug bastard wrote:

 

My first reaction is that when relationships break down, kids do get confused and hurt, and there’s nothing that can be done to avoid that entirely unfortunately. The one thing that can be done is for the adults around to be calm, loving, consistent and stable for the kids.

 

 

 

When you split with their father they were younger and perhaps not independent enough to express or understand how this made them feel. But, the most important difference is that back then you were strong and happy with your situation, which gave them confidence, security and happiness.

 

 

 

I have been in their lives for 3 years during a time of maturation, from small kids to more emotionally independent and self aware young people. It was never my plan to have two small girls at this stage in my life, but I entered into it as part of the commitment to you and our relationship. I did get a sense of satisfaction through providing them with the things I had when I was a kid, the things that I know made a big difference to my sense of being cared for: washing their hair at bath time, drawing pictures with them, making their bed or tidying their room. These practical things do make a difference because they create calm and routine, as well as providing constant outward symbols that they are loved and protected. These are the things that they got from me that, from what I’ve seen, they don’t really get from their Dad, and when you are fighting with me they don’t get from you either.

 

 

 

My sense of guilt and pain at having put them through the same loss I went through as a child is very strong, and I did seriously consider the ‘staying together for the kids’ option. What stopped me is the realization that as a person, I know I would resent this and manifest my feelings in untold terrors, making it worse for myself and everyone else. More importantly, I believe our situation, fighting all the time, was a more damaging one than the sense of loss they’re feeling now. At least now they have a chance for something better, rather than laying in bed every night, year after year, listening to the adults row. Remember, they had already started to show clear signs of distress and unhappiness at the sight and sound of us rowing.

 

 

 

They were always going to feel the change, and nostalgia provokes happy memories to make these feelings worse, but is the strength of these emotions heightened by the emotional turmoil they are feeling now from you? Perhaps they need to feel the familiarity and stability they felt when we were together replaced by a new routine? Kids need an environment of constant familiarity so they can focus on their own growth without needing to worry about the day to day stuff. But change is a reality of life, so with kids shouldn’t the idea be to make any changes and transitions as seamless and quick as possible. But our situation is the opposite, both public and drawn out, and very visible to them.

 

 

 

I said when we split I wanted an end to the fighting and turmoil, that I personally could not do it anymore and that I believed it was damaging to you and the kids. But, I never asked for a complete cut from the kids, and in fact I said that we should manage the transition so that they did not feel that sense of loss and grief at suddenly having something go missing, at not understanding why and feeling powerless to affect anything. They didn’t have to be exposed to such a big drama…to be told they would never see me again, ever! They are small kids, they believe whatever they are told. Put it this way, if you had a brain tumor would you expose them to all the gory details, would you take them to the doctors while you wail and grieve? The way things have been the past week they must be feeling the drama and emotion. They must have a general sense of something being wrong, of their home life and routine, being under threat. You and I can cope with this, just about, but they have no outlet, no control, no way of changing their own situation, they rely entirely on you and their Dad to give them their emotional frame of reference, their sense of everything being ok or not ok.

 

 

 

Which brings me to my final point. Have you also spoken to their Dad? He needs to be the one who provides this stability and routine as well as you. Being divorced is not an unusual thing, and I think it can be a positive if it means the kids get access to two loving, stimulating and diverse environments. But they need regularity and routine, and they don’t really get this from their Dad, do they?

 

I don’t know if this is what you’re looking for, but these were my thoughts when you sent me the text?

 

PS. I don’t want to have another fight.

 

 

 

WHAT SHOULD I SAY / DO AT THIS STAGE????

[sedgwick]

Well...if he's not really their father, I can understand him feeling that their dad should be the man in their lives instead of him. Is their father around?

 

Also, if you're broken up, I can't really understand why you'd start a fight with him over not being asked to his birthday party...?

[sedona]

Probably doesn't relate to you post much, but this is what I thought of while reading what you wrote:

 

After I separated from my husband (not the guy that's giving me heartache now), he emailed me that he didn't want to pay for our daughter's private school anymore. We sent her to a Waldorf school and it cost us each about $100 dollars a month, 11 months per year. He had the money, but felt he would rather use it to buy her the "stuff" she needed. She was 8 at the time. I thought it would be a really tough on her to make her change schools to a system that was very different from the Waldorf philosophy and lose the friends she's had all her life right after her father moved out of the house. I thought she would benefit more from stability than from "stuff." It seemed like a no-brainer to me, but I asked a child psychologist just in case I was being unduly biased against what my ex said. But the psychologist said it would be good for my daughter to stay in the same class if at all possible.

 

So I told him what I had found out. His response: "You should have thought about that before you kicked me out."

 

And with that, I started paying the entire cost of her schooling.

 

There was no point in arguing with him or even responding.

 

Btw, now it's been a few years since the split. We work pretty well together now with all children-related matters.

[The Collector]

He sounds reasonable and mature. I believe him when he says he doesn't want to fight, especially in front of the kids, and it seems like you told them they were never going to see him anymore. I'm genuinely not taking his side because he's a man, but you seem crazy in love/hate and looking for trouble. You are unlikely to agree with me, I reckon.

[datingmum]

Thank you for reading that long post and responding.

 

I guess you'd have to know the whole, long, gory story to understand why I was inflamed by his very calm, rational response.

 

You see, the reason I told them that "we would not be able to be friends anymore" is because we were all at his house making dinner when he decided to 'break up' with me (again). He was also, at that time, holding me against a wall and saying "I don't love you and I don't want to be around you ever again".

 

In my hurt/anger/sadness I have made the situation more tense and dramatic than it could be. I know this and have worked very hard the last five weeks to get a grip on myself and get a perspective on what has happened so that the girls have the consistency and stability he talks about. Yet, I also wonder how 'strong' and 'healthy' any human would be when he's broken our engagment and moved out nearly a year ago and has proceeded to come into/out of our lives on a pretty regular basis. One day " I love you and the world is well" and the next "I don't know if I can do this anymore, be a father to your children, get married...". Nor when he has habitually and continuously picked arguments with me because he sabotages our relationship. Nor when he has massive anxiety issues that cause him to twitch and tick for the large majority of the day and evening - issues he will not address! Yes, I am responsible for allowing him back in. Yes, I am a part of the arguments. Yes, it is my duty to ensure that this sort of craziness doesn't pervade my children's lives. Yes, I am responsible. But not 100% responsible..

 

I have looked for trouble in the past, I have been rageful and angry beyond belief. Sometimes I was justified, sometimes I was not. I never abandoned our relationship and I fought hard to get us into therapy and really look at the issues surrounding our communication problems.

 

I guess I'm just trying to defend myself. From reading the simple post above and no prior knowledge, I can see how I look "out for trouble" and he looks reasonable and mature.

[datingmum]

Well...if he's not really their father, I can understand him feeling that their dad should be the man in their lives instead of him. Is their father around?

 

Also, if you're broken up, I can't really understand why you'd start a fight with him over not being asked to his birthday party...?

 

I've been lurking reading your posts by the way and following your story!

 

Of course their father should be the man in their lives. Yes, he is around. But my ex was a much better father, hence choosing for him to be in our lives. This is not my ex's fault, that their father isn't as good. That is not my objection. My objection is that he asked me to marry him and asked the girls if they'd be his stepchildren. In my world, that means not freaking out all the time, causing huge arguments, constantly questioning his commitment and desire to be 'tied down' aloud with me as a result of these arguments, then walking out when I finally lose the plot and get angry myself. You must understand and see some of what happened to truly understand. He could really start things at the drop of a hat. We'd be trapped in my house too, i.e. I could not leave to cool off. He'd chase me, slam doors, leave but barge back in shouting. Just very very bad behaviour. I'm no saint, but believe me, MOST of the irrational stuff came from him (my jealousy issues aside).

 

Broken up. We've been 'broken up' too many times to count. I don't consider two people broken up when 1. he kisses me when we're together 2. he touches me constantly 3. He texts or calls most days unless I specifically ask him not to 4. he asked me out to coffee and dinner twice, which we did, in the week proceeding his birthday 5. His facebook/myspace everything still has as the profile picture a closeup of the two of us smiling and holding hands. Okay, the last one is a bit silly I know, but his words and actions just do not add up. At least in my mind. But I'm perfectly prepared to stand corrected. Maybe I am seeing everything wrong wrong wrong....

[carhill]

Sounds like the day he wrote that must've been one of his rare good days

 

As a good female friend told me many years ago when I was single and lived alone, "you don't know what goes on behind closed doors", meaning a man's public persona and what goes on at home can be two very different things, just like the boxes for those things in his brain.

 

At least you can take comfort in doing your best ....

[datingmum]

Seriously, Carhill. I know you've read a few of my posts and you sort of know where I've been, what I've been going through with this. Do I sound like I'm just denying my own issues and focusing on him/his responsibility?

 

I will post the followup texts in a bit. The ones where he says he wasn't meaning to 'get at me' and maybe his posts reflected his own guilt. hmmm. I'm so confused. i feel like my brain is now coming out of a year long anger hangover. It feels like a cold hard stone.

[carhill]

Personally, I think you're overwhelmed and will sort it out in time. I read it in the tone of your posts. I think putting all this down is good for you. It will help. Try not to over-analyze things but just let them flow out of you. Confusion is normal.

 

As to the question in your OP, I like the way my female friend handles such things. She takes it all in and quietly processes it for a good long while before deciding how she feels about it and how best to proceed. Drives me nuts because I'm an emotional reactionary but I must say I've tried it and it does help.

 

Oh, well, another day and a few more flowers bloom in the yard

[datingmum]

Ok, overwhelmed. Put it down. The Hardest Thing! But that is the focus of where I need to be. I need to turn the focus back to me.

 

I guess what I'm really trying to get to is: am I overwhelmed because I've let myself be? Am I an irresponsible mother in being overwhelmed? Am I abnormal in being overwhelmed given these circumstances? I feel the need to get the real answers to these questions because perhaps I am just walking around like so many, like my own mother, denying and rationalising my craziness by attacking other people?!?

[carhill]

You know, when I was taking care of my demented mother, I sounded exactly like you. You should have seen my legendary rants on my AD forum The stress d@mn near killed me.

 

Without reading your backstory on your exH (or, father of your kids, if more applicable), did you have this kind of issue when you and he split up?

[datingmum]

Well, I felt more like this *before* I got a divorce. It sort of led to the divorce. The first two months after the divorce I was still wobbly but then pulled it together, got a new place, moved, etc and was feeling great. Then I met my ex and of course, on the wind of that, took off into full flight.

 

But given that I've only ever been in one relationship other than him (with my exhusband) and I have suffered from massive abandonment/self-esteem issues from my childhood, it's hard to tell.

[curiousnycgirl]

[quote=datingmum;1590274My objection is that he asked me to marry him and asked the girls if they'd be his stepchildren. In my world, that means not freaking out all the time, causing huge arguments, constantly questioning his commitment and desire to be 'tied down' aloud with me as a result of these arguments, then walking out when I finally lose the plot and get angry myself. You must understand and see some of what happened to truly understand. He could really start things at the drop of a hat. We'd be trapped in my house too, i.e. I could not leave to cool off. He'd chase me, slam doors, leave but barge back in shouting. Just very very bad behaviour. I'm no saint, but believe me, MOST of the irrational stuff came from him (my jealousy issues aside).

 

Broken up. We've been 'broken up' too many times to count. I don't consider two people broken up when 1. he kisses me when we're together 2. he touches me constantly 3. He texts or calls most days unless I specifically ask him not to 4. he asked me out to coffee and dinner twice, which we did, in the week proceeding his birthday 5. His facebook/myspace everything still has as the profile picture a closeup of the two of us smiling and holding hands. Okay, the last one is a bit silly I know, but his words and actions just do not add up. At least in my mind. But I'm perfectly prepared to stand corrected. Maybe I am seeing everything wrong wrong wrong....

 

Um...to me this sounds like a high school relationship - not an adult, mature one. Do you really want this? I haven't learned much in life, but I have learned that the good and lasting relationships don't have this negtive drama. They are more even, steady and things you can count on. Honestly that's what I want, and I won't settle!

[datingmum]

You are right, it sounds that way because it is stupid and high drama.

 

No, I do not want this! That is what I was hoping would change!

[pigeonsid]

If you want some change, then it sounds as though you should be making those changes yourself, without waiting on him. If he really is this flaky, coming in and out of your life (and your children's lives) then perhaps the best thing to do is to cut him out for good? For your children's sakes more than anything else. You've said that the ex is a better father to them than their real father, but then you've also described the relationship as a high school relationship. (Well, I think that's what you meant from the above post.) He doesn't sound ready to be a father to them, and you seem to keep expecting him to fill that role.

 

Sorry if this is harsh or if I don't know enough about your situation to read this properly, but that's what it sounded like to me. And you sound as though you do want to take charge of your life again. It's just the actual doing of it that may be really tough and scary.

[datingmum]

Yes, it is the cutting out completely that is the difficult bit. The problem is, I keep believeing in words, letting him back in etc, and then we get back to the same problems. Hence, trying to get into therapy (him and i individually) in the *hopes* that perhaps it will help

[Kasan]

datingmum--

 

I have followed you since last fall, and I honestly don't understand why you are holding on.

 

The reason for the original break up was that your SO didn't want to have a family.

 

You are pinning your hopes and dreams on a man that might not be able to commit to you ever.

 

You and your girls deserve to have a man in your life that will see your ready made family for the treasures you are.

[datingmum]

Guess I have held on because I see his potential, and when he drops the 'issue' and reaches out, he says that he does want us all - just his problems and our communication gets in way and exacerbates his negative feelings about committing to it

[pigeonsid]

One of my close friends finally got out of a similar sort of relationship. The guy kept leaving and then coming back, he couldnt' decide what he wanted. Even after the last fight, where he just suddenly flipped out and accused her of all sorts of things without any reason, I think she still would take him back. It's just lucky that after the last fight, she finally has been able to see how crazy his behaviour is (since the things he said were almost ridiculous on one level - completely in his head). I'm not saying that your relationship is this crazy, but the sort of pull-push element seems to be there. With my friend, I didn't understand why she kept taking him back and I was telling her - walk away from this, because you're just telling him it's ok for him to treat you like this. In the end, I guess that the point is that these sorts of relationships are just so much effort - is this really the sort of thing you want to be working on forever? Sometimes it is easier to just cut your losses and to find someone else, because relationships shouldnt be this hard. My friend is very sad now that her relationship is over, but I know that it will be so much better for her to stop being on this crazy rollercoaster.