Is Masculinity out of Fashion?

[Fingz]

Has anyone else here noticed something strange about guys nowadays?

 

I look at my friends and listen to them when they talk, and sometimes it feels like I am talking to a woman.. LOL. I know that sounds strange but it's true. I remember when I was young and hung out with my uncles. They didn't talk so much about their emotions, or whine about things they couldn't change. They were straight-shooting MEN who just shot the breeze, cracked jokes and took life in stride.

 

Now I know things are supposed to have improved with women's right movements, and I'm all for social equality, etc. But to me it seems like things have gone too far. More and more it seems like men are in the proverbial doghouse.. not just with women but in society at large.

 

Am I totally off here, or has it not become more fashionable for men to behave like women (submissive & emotional) and women to behave as men (aggressive & calculating)?

 

Looking at the millions of Paris Hilton and Queer Eye fans out there, I really wonder where humanity is heading nowadays.

 

I'm not saying things were perfect when men were more chauvenist, but I really miss guys like my uncles, especially when I hear sisses arguing over which hand cream is more absorbant.

Edited March 26, 2008 by Fingz

[carhill]

Some would opine we're more complete and less stereotypical. People have evolved more quickly than societal norms and structures, hence conflict.

 

Change is inevitable. Get used to it. Adapt or die

[PRSun]

I just got done filing my nails.

 

We can't be lumberjacks for ever cheif.

[OpenBook]

Not to worry, the testosterone is flowing here in the South.

[ketostix]

Some would opine we're more complete and less stereotypical. People have evolved more quickly than societal norms and structures, hence conflict.

 

Change is inevitable. Get used to it. Adapt or die

 

 

I thought societal norms and structures evolved faster than evolution does. Or do you mean society changes faster than people's old way of thinking and behavior does? I agree with the latter.

 

I have noticed that a lot of men act more feminine than a lot of women do. I don't think masculinity means being crude or boorish though. I think you can be masculine and have good manners.

 

I feel like girls are telling me in so many words to not be masculine but when I act masculine they sometimes act offended but seem to be attracted to me more than if I act less masculine like I thought they wanted me to. Does anyone else see this. How should a man act?

[carhill]

I thought societal norms and structures evolved faster than evolution does

Ask any woman what the "glass ceiling" was and, in many industries, still is. One of many examples.

 

Interestingly, my wife often says I have a white collar mind in a blue collar body. I have yet to determine if that's evolution or a backhanded compliment

 

IMO, individuals (I mean severally and not collectively) always evolve faster than the surrounding social structure. Over time, and often with great conflict, the structure adapts. History is an interesting subject. I suggest re-reading the Roman era for insight as to current events

[ketostix]

Ask any woman what the "glass ceiling" was and, in many industries, still is. One of many examples.

 

Interestingly, my wife often says I have a white collar mind in a blue collar body. I have yet to determine if that's evolution or a backhanded compliment

 

IMO, individuals (I mean severally and not collectively) always evolve faster than the surrounding social structure. Over time, and often with great conflict, the structure adapts. History is an interesting subject. I suggest re-reading the Roman era for insight as to current events

 

 

Maybe that's my problem. I'm always dragging my feet with any new social changes. I sometimes daydream about what itwould be like being a simpler time like in the 50's. I'm still a little confused though. Are you saying people's genetic instincts change quicker than society or just their beliefs?

[carhill]

We are conscious creatures and our lives fuel both adaptive and genetic change. We are born with some instincts and others are socialized into us. Each new human is a complete cr@pshoot

 

The best gift my father gave me was sparing me the programming of traditional male stereotypes and allowing me to evolve on my own. An applicable quote might be that "my uniqueness will be my biggest burden until it becomes my biggest asset". One takes a risk with this approach, but it can pay off big time for the future.

 

IMO, the times are what we make them. My life has the ability to be much simpler than it was for my parents in the 50's (when I was born). I just choose it not to be.

[Uchiha Sasuke]

Personally I find that more women are turned on by a masculine guy than one who sits and talks about his "feelings".

 

How self indulgent do you HAVE to be?

 

Well I guess if the goal is to be friends with a woman, talking is all fine and dandy.

[Woggle]

The best kept secret is that whether they want to admit it or not most women are attracted to the more masculine men.

[ketostix]

We are conscious creatures and our lives fuel both adaptive and genetic change. We are born with some instincts and others are socialized into us. Each new human is a complete cr@pshoot

 

The best gift my father gave me was sparing me the programming of traditional male stereotypes and allowing me to evolve on my own. An applicable quote might be that "my uniqueness will be my biggest burden until it becomes my biggest asset". One takes a risk with this approach, but it can pay off big time for the future.

 

IMO, the times are what we make them. My life has the ability to be much simpler than it was for my parents in the 50's (when I was born). I just choose it not to be.

 

I get what your saying. I just want to be myself and not have to worry about anyone thinking I'm a creep or interested in sex. Being thought of like that would probably cramp my style:o. I would like to just be myself sort of a James Dean type and that no one would think that's a bad thing or chavanist . Does that mean I'm unevolved and need to change? Do you think most women would be turned off by that or more turned on?

[ketostix]

Personally I find that more women are turned on by a masculine guy than one who sits and talks about his "feelings".

 

How self indulgent do you HAVE to be?

 

Well I guess if the goal is to be friends with a woman, talking is all fine and dandy.

 

 

Hmm, yeah I always heard talking about feelings with a girl was a good thing but I can't remeber it leading to anything more than friends. And when I didn't talk about feelings I might not make as many female friends, but I got more of what I was really looking for. So I'm confused how people make talking about feelings work? If I could get it to work I'd do it more maybe.

[ketostix]

The best kept secret is that whether they want to admit it or not most women are attracted to the more masculine men.

 

Why is it kept a secret though? Anyway, can you define more what a masculine man is that women like? And do women say they don't like it but secretly do or what?

[Woggle]

Why is it kept a secret though? Anyway, can you define more what a masculine man is that women like? And do women say they don't like it but secretly do or what?

 

Because for years feminism has been trying to turn men into women with penises and it taught women that that is what they want but in reality they don't. Women are just as screwed up by feminism as men are but nature always wins in the end.

[ketostix]

Because for years feminism has been trying to turn men into women with penises and it taught women that that is what they want but in reality they don't. Women are just as screwed up by feminism as men are but nature always wins in the end.

 

 

Wow that sounds pretty heavy. So you think a guy should just act masculine and ignore people when they say it's wrong or that they don't like it, and in the end the women will like it and be more attracted. I guess I was wondering to what degree should a person be masculine. As much as possible, or just middle ground and a little mysterious about how masculine and sexual you are. It seems like for whatever reason being too agressive or sexual can turn girls off.

[carhill]

I get what your saying. I just want to be myself and not have to worry about anyone thinking I'm a creep or interested in sex. Being thought of like that would probably cramp my style:o. I would like to just be myself sort of a James Dean type and that no one would think that's a bad thing or chavanist . Does that mean I'm unevolved and need to change? Do you think most women would be turned off by that or more turned on?

There is no mold for universal attractiveness. You either have it or you don't. Most don't. Being who you are at the essential level will bring people (including women) into your life who are healthy for you, even if those same people are not perhaps healthy for me. Understand?

 

I've never bought into masculine or feminine stereotypes, so I have little understanding of or concern for any mutations of them, such as feminism. I gave up trying to figure women out a generation ago

 

If you want a more sure-fire method of getting laid, follow the teachings of the traditionalists here. You'll do well. Just be sure what you get is what you want.

[Uchiha Sasuke]

Why should a guy stop being a guy if he wants sex? Why should he stumble over his words and cater to another's feelings while NOT being his sexual self.

 

When I'm with a girl I'm sexually interested I let her know COVERTLY that I am very much a sexual creature that would like to have sex with another sexual creature. We talk about things that lead to sex. Nothing wrong with that.

 

You put two bunnies in a closet what's going to happen?

 

 

MORE BUNNIES!! :laugh::laugh:

 

 

Edit: What's a "masculine" stereotype for you, Carhill?

Edited March 26, 2008 by Uchiha Sasuke

[Woggle]

A man should do what he wants and not be afraid of what people think. That is what being a real man truly is about. Many of these neanderthal types are actually whipped at home.

[Pyro]

A man should do what he wants and not be afraid of what people think. That is what being a real man truly is about. Many of these neanderthal types are actually whipped at home.

 

If the guy is single, then yes I agree with you. (As long as he is acting accordingly to the law)

 

If he is in a relationship, then you are incorrect. A man should compromise and care to an extent what his partner thinks of him.

[Trialbyfire]

A real man is one who has the balls to stand behind his given word. If he gives his word, this is his honour and he'll stick to it. Also, a man doesn't whine about the bad things he's experienced in life, he takes it in stride and makes something worthwhile out of it. It doesn't mean he doesn't have emotions, it just means that he doesn't allow negative emotion, to dominate his life.

 

Beyond that, a real man defines himself. If he wants to crochet in his spare time, that's his call to make. He doesn't need a pack of farting, burping, beer drinking friends, to tell him what he needs to act like.

 

As for sexuality, what gave you the idea that a real man has to want to shag anything that moves? That to me is the concept of a man-whore, not a real man.

[Citizen Erased]

The best kept secret is that whether they want to admit it or not most women are attracted to the more masculine men.

 

I have no problem with admitting this. Considering the men who I am attracted to, in practice I am really put off with an overly sensitive man. My last boyfriend was gorgeous but I've seen more testosterone in my grandmother

[Taramere]

Going by the sheer volume of "let's be manly, men" posts, male trends are still very much dictated by Maxim, Loaded, FHM etc rather than by Vogue and Good Housekeeping.

 

I guess I was wondering to what degree should a person be masculine. As much as possible, or just middle ground and a little mysterious about how masculine and sexual you are. It seems like for whatever reason being too agressive or sexual can turn girls off.

 

Men who are evidently concerned with whether they're manly enough are a bit of a turn off. It's like the "does my bum look big in this?" question. if you have to ask in the first place, it's unlikely that a truthful answer will be complimentary.

 

Here's what strikes me about the men I find manly in a very positive way:

 

1. They know who they are and what they want.

2. Muscular Preferably through "natural" methods such as sport or physical labour. Gardening, diy, carrying women around so that we don't have to walk too much. That kind of thing

3. Doesn't get all uptight over petty stuff.

4. Has the kind of physical presence that makes women automatically lean towards him slightly (which is what we do when we want a hug).

5. Appreciates the feminine. Is the yang to our yin.

6. Cute, boyish smile that doesn't look cultivated.

7. Is chivalrous in a natural, understated way.

 

 

Unmanly:

 

1. Bitches endlessly about how his bastard of a friend - who meets the above criteria - is always more successful with women than he is. Moans about how nice guys like himself (who are riddled with envy and will cockblock successful friend at any opportunity) always finish last.

2.Forever competing with women for said alphamales' attention and approval.

3. Fussy, pernickety and squeamish.

4. Humourless, with a frigid demeanour.

Edited March 26, 2008 by Taramere

[Woggle]

Maxim and FHM are a caricture of manhood. Most men who read those magazines do so to escape their wives and girlfriends who have them completely whipped. There are no good men's magazines with wide distribution out on the market.

[Taramere]

Maxim and FHM are a caricture of manhood. Most men who read those magazines do so to escape their wives and girlfriends who have them completely whipped. There are no good men's magazines with wide distribution out on the market.

 

It's just a dog's life, isn't it Woggle? Really. I don't know how you cope.

[Woggle]

This world is beyond effed up but still I can laugh and enjoy life. I have my own circle where I have created my own heaven and that is all that matters.