freckles3131 Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 I have been with my b.f. for 2 1/2 yrs. Have had access to his email accts/phone logs. Have not felt the need to look at them at all in this time. For some reason (little voice in my head, gut feeling) told me to look at his cell phone records... There were 3 different days/dates where there was multiple text messages/texts to a girl I didn't know He told me he met her through a mutual friend at a funeral that I didn't attend. The night of the funeral everyone went out (I was home with the flu) there were a few texts going back and forth, then again on another night out without me...a few days later (initiated by him) the next 2 times there was contact it was (initated by her) he did reply back and forth..and he saidthe last contact they had, he told her "I'm doing something with my girlfriend tonight and she said, "Ok, cool" and that was the last there was any contact.... He said, "She was a cool chick, they know lot of the same people from high school/lots of mutual friends, and he was having fun hanging out/talking w/a cool chick instead of his guy friends for once as he "has no female friends" and it was nice to meet someone interesting to shoot the bull with. That he was out in a public bar and lots of our friends were there and he wanted her to come hang out. and if he was "doing something wrong" he would have asked her to go somewhere private. I don't know what any of the text messages say because they were all deleted...(he keeps other old text msg. on there and doesn't regularly delete them, yet all of these were deleted and he never told me he met a chick that is now going to be a "friend' I only found out because I snooped.) Since all of this he said I have access to all of his records/phone/ etc..and can "check up on him" and if she texts he'll let me read them etc..he said he didn't say anything/tell me because things are going really well between us and he didn't want to upset me (I have a jealous bone) and it was innocent and a non-issue He said, "Talking to the ex allowed him closure and it helped him to realize just how much he loves me" The other girl was just him wanting to have a female friend that is "cool" to hang out with as I have tons of guy friends and he only has guy friends/no female friends and it was a nice change of pace. Thoughts??? Emotional affair in the making or...just wanting some new female friends becaues he doesn't really have too many chicks to hang out with?
Legend Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 Definitely more. Inherently men and women cannot be friends. (they shouldn't be either)
Nocturnal Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 If you're the jealous type (and depending on what type) I can understand his means of handling it, but it is still a rather stupid way to handle it considering the very same fact and he would probably have done better being upfront about it in the first place. It's a double edged sword. Still, from the sound of it (like the fact that he said he would be with his girlfriend and she said ok cool), and by the fact that he's willing to let you continue snoop his private records, I would venture to give him the benefit of doubt. If he was truly looking for something more, he wouldn't give you free access to that stuff. Hell, I wouldn't give my partner free access to that stuff even if I wasn't doing anything wrong. It's a matter of private principle for me.
carhill Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 Definitely more. Inherently men and women cannot be friends. (they shouldn't be either) Wrong. You're seeing all men through your eyes. Mistake
Covonia Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 Wrong. You're seeing all men through your eyes. Mistake I don't agree with Legend's post, but I can see why men and women think the way he does. I find it hard to befriend a female unless I feel a connection with them on the level of friendship. I am more comfortable around male companionship.
carhill Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 The other girl was just him wanting to have a female friend that is "cool" to hang out with as I have tons of guy friends and he only has guy friends/no female friends and it was a nice change of pace.How many of those guy friends hit on you? And, if they do, how long does the friendship last after that? Does your BF trust you with your guy friends? Quid pro quo Your BF will be exclusively with you because he wants to. Nothing you do with text messages and/or cell phone records and/or snooping is going to change that. If he doesn't want to be with you, he won't and the relationship will be over. Frankly, I think this is a great time to measure his character. If you continue as a couple, he will meet and have discourse with many women throughout his life. He'll even have *gasp* some friends. I'm very disappointed in myself that I (voluntarily) gave up my platonic female friends when I got married. Bad decision. I miss those relationships because they were friends. My wife doesn't tell me about every conversation she has with male clients or friends. There wouldn't be enough time in the day Your BF is telling you a number of things in your OP. Re-read it. I see a lot of positives there. Is any of it out of character for him?
carhill Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 I don't agree with Legend's post, but I can see why men and women think the way he does. I find it hard to befriend a female unless I feel a connection with them on the level of friendship. I am more comfortable around male companionship. My wife and I have a mutual male friend who personifies the reasoning behind Legend's posting. I asked my wife, who has far more experience with men professionally and personally in that way, if his perspective is typical. Her answer: "Not in my experience". The answer means that, in her experience, not all men see a woman, any woman, as a potential girlfriend or, more pointedly, as a sexual object needing to be filled with their manhood. In fact, she has told me, because I work in the blue collar world, my opinion of "most" men fitting that description is far wrong. I'm guilty of the same mistake as Legend seeing men through the eyes (or unbridled libidos) of my contemporaries So, female friend or more? OP says she has a jealous streak; BF knows this and wishes minimal pain in his life and, since he does not have any female friends, has low confidence that GF will spare his head if he coughs one up. If it were him posting here, I'd tell him to man-up, be honest with her at the get go and bring the friend around for dinner. That should fix things, or not
Covonia Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 Right, but I haven't found a woman who I find percuilar enough, weird enough and interesting enough to befriend properly as a best friend. Then again, I don't have female friends and hardly have tonnes of girlfriend's, so I'm out ot sync.
Author freckles3131 Posted March 26, 2008 Author Posted March 26, 2008 Here are my issues with this: 1) We have been together on and off for 7+ yrs. We have gone through alot together and have had to had WAY more intense conversations than this would could have been and I have been diplomatic, open minded and rarely fly off the handle. 2) This wasn't a "friend" that he was writing, texting, calling or an established friendship with someone he knew or I knew...if it was one of his girl "friends" and they were hanging out, texting, calling I wouldn't bat an eye. This is someone he JUST met, someone I never met, someone he gave his phone number to, someone he just met and text messaged 30+ times in a 3 week period on top of numerous phone calls and never once mentioned..... 3) If I met someone new and visa versa and there is NOTHING to worry about or no thoughts, no doing anything inappropriate then why delete all 30+text and phone calls and never once mention her....to hide things over a girl you want to "be friends" with to someone you live with, and have a history with and like I said, have dealt with much heavier stuff than this...why is this such a secret.....honestly, if he had just said, "I met a friend of so and so, her name is Ann, she is cool, you'll like her, we;ll all go out some time so you can meet her, then at that point...fine, I know who she is, there was no secrets, no lying, no covering up...I would have NOTHING to be worried about and they could pal around all they want.....
carhill Posted March 26, 2008 Posted March 26, 2008 So, the behavior isn't the historical norm. Invite her over for dinner. Fly, meet wall
2sunny Posted March 26, 2008 Posted March 26, 2008 i see red flags mainly because he kept it all from you all along. the fact that it was all a secret kept from you should tell you that it wasn't as innocent as he is trying to make it appear.
AussieJack Posted March 26, 2008 Posted March 26, 2008 The other girl was just him wanting to have a female friend that is "cool" to hang out with as I have tons of guy friends and he only has guy friends/no female friends and it was a nice change of pace. Thoughts??? Emotional affair in the making or...just wanting some new female friends becaues he doesn't really have too many chicks to hang out with? You have no grounds for complaint whatsoever - You have " tons of male friends" so therefore he is entitled to have "female friends " too . One rule for all.
Author freckles3131 Posted March 26, 2008 Author Posted March 26, 2008 You have no grounds for complaint whatsoever - You have " tons of male friends" so therefore he is entitled to have "female friends " too . One rule for all. Yes, I have tons of male friends...that I have known for ever and a day AND whom he has met and has no qualms about...none I have dated, shown interest in, nor have I hidden any of the details of our "friendship" He has some female friends..I have met them, hung out with them, he has texted them/called them... THIS girl he JUST met....THIS girl..he didn't mention, not once. I have no mention of her, never met her, no history to justify his "friendship" You all keep ignoring the fact that a) I don't care if he has female friends b) He JUST met her and when I have a friend, I don't text them constantly and call them all the time c) I don't keep it a secret d) I don't delete all 30+ messages (male or female) and he KNOWS about the when and where and with whom.... Secrets...there are none. Again, if this was an established or even semi-established female friendship, there would be nothing to talk about... BUT....He just met her...he never once mentioned her....he is texting her and calling her.....and deleting all of the traces....
sid33 Posted March 26, 2008 Posted March 26, 2008 sounds like your bf is waiting to see if the grass may be greener on the other side. I wouldn't be crazy about my gf texting another guy and such. Not jealous, would wish them the best together and I'd find someone that was happy with just me...
carhill Posted March 26, 2008 Posted March 26, 2008 You all keep ignoring the fact that a) I don't care if he has female friends b) He JUST met her and when I have a friend, I don't text them constantly and call them all the time c) I don't keep it a secret d) I don't delete all 30+ messages (male or female) and he KNOWS about the when and where and with whom....Actually, I did notice. Hence my suggestion. Also, opinion often changes as more information is revealed. We have the right to change our minds BTW, I can't reconcile "I have a jealous streak" with "I don't care if he has female friends". Can you assist? Does the jealousy have to do with something else? In your OP, you state he "has no female friends" (I assumed you knew this for fact) and later you say "He has some female friends..I have met them, hung out with them, he has texted them/called them..." Color me If behavior out of norm, at minimum ego boost or other percieved (by him) deficiency in the relationship. I won't go to maximum because that's speculation and decidedly prejudicial. What do you want?
AussieJack Posted March 26, 2008 Posted March 26, 2008 THIS girl he JUST met....THIS girl..he didn't mention, not once. I have no mention of her, never met her, no history to justify his "friendship" He does not have to "justify" his friendship with a new woman. YOu are pissed because she is new, and YOU have not had the opportunity to assess her as 'no threat' and grant or withhold the 'stamp of approval' for her to be HIS friend. (as if your approval is necessary at all ) When did you and you B/f agree that neither of you could add any more people to your individual list of "friends" .. Ahh ! You never had that talk - and therefore you have no grounds to be upset . He has not broken any "agreement" that I can see. I think your B/f is acting in a respectful manner towards you and your relationship. He is trying to allay your fears , Your insecurities and inconsistent thoughts appear to be the problem here.
PRSun Posted March 26, 2008 Posted March 26, 2008 Why not just ask to meet her? If it buggs you that much just ask your man if you can meet this chick. If you have to resort to "checking up" on minor spying and espionage as it's better know, then it's obviously that much of a concern for you to just bring it to the table and talk about. Next time you two have somekind of a group outing or something to that affect and she's there, just ask if you can say hi. You might make a new friend.
rockinghorse Posted March 26, 2008 Posted March 26, 2008 girl, that same gut feeling or inner voice that encouraged you to snoop in the first place is also telling you the truth. you know what that voice is telling you but you need validation. do not second guess you intuition! if he is wanting you and wanting his cake, he will say anything to ease your concerns. the sad thing is you will probably let it pass but the feeling or ache of distrust will eat at you. everytime you get a chance, you will snoop. everytime he takes a call and you can not hear his responses, you will wonder. when he is late getting home, you will wonder if he was with her "hanging out". the "wondering" is enough to drive you crazy. now that you have questioned him about it, chances are he will just be more clever and cover all traces more thoroughly. now that he knows, you know, he may even set up another email account that you know nothing about. people are sneaky that way. he has probably known this girl for alot longer than he has admitted to. listen to that gut feeling and deal with it now.
CD111 Posted March 26, 2008 Posted March 26, 2008 You admitted to having a jealous streak. This could definitely be you just way over reacting. I agree with previous posters. Meet this girl, see what kind of vibe you get from her and how she and your bf act together. If you invite her over for dinner you can't be on the defensive right from the start. Give this girl a chance and who knows she might just be really really cool. Get her with kindness From my personal experience I am the girl with a bunch of guy friends. Some I have had for years and years. Many of their girlfriends have treated me like crap, just because they were jealous when there was ABSOLUTELY nothing going on with their bf's and me....EVER. All it showed was the girls' lack of self confidence, insecurities and jealousy. Don't be one of those stupid girls.
Author freckles3131 Posted March 26, 2008 Author Posted March 26, 2008 Perhaps it's because he hid BOTH this item(read below..from another post) and the OP from me all in a months' time..... Carhill---He "has" some female friends, but doesn't really hang out with them 1 on 1 to get a female perspective on life...they all have bf's or are married. I think this "new" girl (from the OP)would have been "just for him" for lack of a better word...someone he could pal around with/get female insite from etc... Anyways...when I checked his phone bill I found out about BOTH the OP AND the following in regards to his ex....... At Christmas time my boyfriend (age 31) was out shopping with a guy friend of his. They ended up chatting about marriage (his friend's g.f is pressuring him about marriage...( My guy says he "doesn't ever want to get married, and I am not pressuring him/nor is it a big issue for me as I have been married before) So his friend asks him "why don't you think you ever want to get married" and my b.f. said, he didn't know..and he has been wrestling with that for a while. He told his friend, "it's not my g.f. I don't want to get married to her or anyone, I don't know why, maybe there is something holding me back, maybe there is something wrong with me," Then the discussion leads to the ex g.f. and his friend says, "do you think you still have feelings etc.." and my b.f. says, "No, but there are alot of unanswered questions and that leaves me frustrated" So apparently after a few beers he decides to go over to visit the ex (no contact in a year..she cheated on him) and she didn't answer the door. Apparently she called him 3 days later as her current b.f. was there. They had a conversation and he told her he is going through a "what does it all mean, is something wrong with me, did you leave me/cheat because of a,b and c...do I need therapy, do I sabotoge relationships etc...kind of a "finding himself" conversation. I guess they spoke for a half hour and she ended the conversation w/this will be the last contact we have as I have a new bf and we are moving in with one another. Now the kicker....I only accidently found out about all of this...he didn't tell me because he says it was a "non-issue" and it was to do some soul seeking...that he felt it was more about "us" and him finding himself to be all he can be for me....(he has shown me his cell bills, emails etc...and that one visit and phone call was the only contact. He said, the whole experience helped him to realize "how much he loves me and wants a future with me" Thoughts??
Author freckles3131 Posted March 26, 2008 Author Posted March 26, 2008 I don't think I am being overly jealous about this situation... If your wife or g.f. met a guy that you don't know...and was text messaging him/calling him until almost 1am some nights and you had never mentioned him nor had you met him, wouldn't you see it as a red flag? I just don't like the secrecy around it. I say fine, have a friend, text/call, be buddies..whatever...but don't hide it. No reason to
carhill Posted March 26, 2008 Posted March 26, 2008 He said, the whole experience helped him to realize "how much he loves me and wants a future with me" Thoughts?? Yes, now tell him exactly what you want for you to feel confident about those things. Work it out. If that means NC with one or more of his recent acquaintances, as well as his former GF, then so be it. You are his primary chosen relationship. Then, expect his actions to follow his words. You know, there's one thing I've noted over long years having female friends; many, if not all, seem to believe the "talk", even when the "walk" doesn't match. I went through break-ups and make-ups with a number that continued to believe the BS spewing from the mouths of their SO's, even with actions so obviously contradictory. Note, I'm not suggesting that your BF is doing anything inherently wrong, but his behavior is affecting your relationship and that's what needs to be resolved. You've essentially drawn a line and he has to decide if that line works for him in "your future". Hope it does
Author freckles3131 Posted March 26, 2008 Author Posted March 26, 2008 Your posts make the most sense to me and they are very well worded. He and I have talked about all of this with one another. He has issues w/confrontation due to his childhood and tends to "find it easier to hide things" than to come out with the truth for fear of the reprecussions. (easier to hide it than to deal with any possible "drama".**Issues with his mother being overly controlling etc.. He recognizes he has these "issues" and has been working rather hard at correcting them. Thing is there have been multiple times in our 7+yrs. when he made the choice to not be up front with me and thus has created an issue w/me trusting him. When he DOES tell me something that I know is difficult the experience has been the "fiesty irish in me gets worked up for all of an hour or so...then once I calm down (seriously within an hour..not days) I am really good at seeing the other side of the coin and/or discussing) the first time we broke up (after almost 3 yrs) was due to his "hiding things" from me i.e. how much debt he was in (ALOT) etc... He approached me for a second chance (after a year apart) and I TOLD him the only way I will agree to a second chance is if he finally realizes that telling truth, although sometimes the initial reaction is strong, but blows over easily, leaves me with no "trust" issues and doesn't permanantly damage our relationship as opposed to hiding/secrets/lying which WILL permanantly damage our relationship... I guess it's hard that after all this time he STILL can't just be up front...that fear of my reaction is STILL strong enough to need to hide things....instead of just having a sit down. So here we are after all this time, (and this is only one month of me feeling the need to snoop and we are going on 3 yrs....which I feel considering our history was pretty darn good!) and the one month I DO snoop I found out he hid 1) going to find himself with the ex and 2) texting/calling some girl he just met till 2am..... I DON'T want to have to feel like I need to look, but I need to TRUST he will tell me what is up from now on......I told him that from now on give me the benefit of the doubt and just tell me up front. He has promised that if there is any texting/calling/or anything pertaining to anything else he will trust in ME and tell me the truth...(of course I need to respect this and not overreact, but he doesn't give me the chance to show him......only gets me fired up by hiding things.....) **although I must say, there has been some huge improvements on his part, there has been noteably some things he has told me that he would have been nervous about in the past...BUT.........these two posts in one month were a huge blow to the 2 1/2 years of me TRUSTING him.....and it felt right....and I thought we were on track and that he "got it" I guess that is what is hard...that I've been going on for 2 1/2 yrs. feeling so blissful, no fears, no worries and then WHAM...
Author freckles3131 Posted March 28, 2008 Author Posted March 28, 2008 So I guess him telling her he has a g.f. didn't assuage her. She texted him tonight. He told me about it. (of course he would...he has been showing me the cell bill...) I said, "so call her back" (trying to be cool about it) He says, "Not tonight, tired. Going to my friend's to help him with his computer" I said, "thank you for your honesty. If you are going to be friends with this girl, I'd like to meet her. I feel the need to, due to the fact that you hid this from me for a month/deleted all text msgs. and it's still bothering me" He says, "No problem" I then say, "Also, no drunk texting/deleting or drunk calling her" He says, "Deal" I need to try to move on from this...but don't know how... Things were going so well for 2 1/2 yrs. I feel like this is such a bone of contention...my mind is now going to thoughts of, "She texted him tonight and now he has to "go help a friend with his computer" is that where he really is... Ugh...help.....this sucks, sucks, sucks...there I was in my bliss, maybe ignorance is bliss.....I just feel like this is putting a huge damper on what we had and the trust I had for him...
Spoonandfork22 Posted March 28, 2008 Posted March 28, 2008 Freckles - youre going to drive yourself crazy with this situation. I recently went through this so I was reading your post and putting myself directly back in that mindset. My boyfriend ran into a girl at the bar whom he had a class with at Uni. They ended up chatting, catching up and exchanging numbers. Now...I too have a jealousy thing. My bf knows this & for this reason did not tell me about his new friend. He mentioned her a few times I think to test the waters & see my reaction. My reaction was that this girl was trouble & I wanted nothing to do with her. So he stopped talking to me about her and chatted with her on his own terms, without my knowledge. They too were calling randomly to say hello. I found this out because I felt the need to check his phone. Because I found out by snooping I was extremely upset that he 'lied' to me or 'hid' her from me. This led to a blow out and a deep loss of trust for me. That being said...this is what I have learned from this situation. 1. Do NOT listen when people tell you 'oh hes probably cheating on you, guys cant have girl friends." This is untrue and ignorant. I have many guy friends, that doesnt mean Im trying to go out & bang them behind my boyfriends back. You need to trust that there are men out there - and hopefully you bf - that, as another posted said, can meet people and not feel the need to bed them. When I looked at it from this perspective, I felt better. I know my bf is a gentlemen and would not put our relationship in jeapordy. Hes entitled to friends and I dont believe that just because he found a female friend that hes trying to get rid of you or find out if the 'grass is greener'. 2. Your bf is making a conscious effort to be honest with you about this and ease your concerns. He isnt being defensive or trying to hide things at this point. Yes, he didnt let you know they were talking as much as they were and he did text her a lot which I know can raise some concerns. But again you need to also realize that you yourself said you can be jealous. I know its completely crappy to have your bf not tell you things because my boyfriend does this too! But I know how I react and I know that if it were me and things were meaningless I would also avoid a conflict at all costs. Now Im not saying this should happen a lot, this has only happened in my relationship one or two instances. But you have to think hard about why his decision to keep this from you may be validated. 3. Not all men do things to be decietful. I see that you two have a history of trust issues. Only you know what your boyfriend is capable of but that being said, you know how much you can deal wtih. You dont always want to be on your toes wondering and worrying. Ive been there too and its not fun. If this is a dealbreaker for you then that is completely ok for you. I hope that you and your bf can work this out if you feel that that is in your plan. Im sorry my post was kinda muddled...I tried to touch on what I have learned. I know how this situation can be processed and I know how scared you can feel that something is going on behind your back. For me, I completely stopped checking my bf's phone - COMPLETELY. I havent looked in a few months...and my bf has just started again to leave his phone out in the open because he has begun to trust ME not to look through his things. I hope you keep us posted on this. Try not to worry or overthink the situation. I know it could be hard to put yourself in his position but sometimes thats what you have to do to understand it. At the same time I could be completely wrong but judging from your post I dont think that your bf is doing you wrong at all.
Recommended Posts