Lizzie60 Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 You know I love you Lizzie--but that's your experience. It can come back, I am walking proof of it. Yes it is my experience along with experience of a few people I know.. If you are a living proof that it can come back.. I would have to say that you're the 'minority'.. How did you do it? In my case, I didn't even want to try.. I wanted nothing to do with him sexually... he was my best friend.. a roomate, the father of my kids.. but the 'love and passion' was gone...
Lizzie60 Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 Lizzie not everyone is like you or has a situation like you. The poster needs to gain some confidence within' himself and not let her affect his own self-worth. I understand that he might need confidence, etc... but I'm not going to tell him that everything will be alright.. when I know very well that his chances are slim... sorry but I am a straight shooter.. no sugar coating for me. I don't like sugar coater.
Ladyjane14 Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 This is something we talk about frequently around here. There are lots of threads about it. Here's one such: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t101000/?highlight=sexless+marriage%2C+recordproducer And you can find alot more by typing in phrases like "female libido" and "sexless marriage" into the Search tool.
Kasan Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 Yes it is my experience along with experience of a few people I know.. If you are a living proof that it can come back.. I would have to say that you're the 'minority'.. How did you do it? In my case, I didn't even want to try.. I wanted nothing to do with him sexually... he was my best friend.. a roomate, the father of my kids.. but the 'love and passion' was gone... I might be in the minority, but there is always hope Lizzie. The love and passion came back because of a simple kindness that he did. Never under estimate the power of forgiveness.
Lizzie60 Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 I might be in the minority, but there is always hope Lizzie. The love and passion came back because of a simple kindness that he did. Never under estimate the power of forgiveness. Well good for you.. I just hope the same thing would happen to him.. only time will tell and if she is willing to do something to change.
Author angryyoungman70 Posted March 25, 2008 Author Posted March 25, 2008 I might be in the minority, but there is always hope Lizzie. The love and passion came back because of a simple kindness that he did. Never under estimate the power of forgiveness. Well, I'm not usually one to blow my own horn, but I think that I'm generally a very kind, giving individual who would do absolutely anything for the people that I love. The only time when my W seems to be "in the mood" is after I have spent all weekned working on rennovations or fixing her car. I can wine and dine her, write little love notes, pen a poem and make it into a jigsaw puzzle - place the pieces in an envelope and tuck it under her pillow....NADA. I don't think I'm hideous, quite the opposite, and even though I've put on a few lbs over the last year or so, I'm still in pretty good shape. I'm quite gregarious and joke around quite a bit. She's an introvert who reads novels non-stop and gives our dog more attention then me.
Kasan Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 Some marriages run their course--people outgrow each other, anger and resentment eat away at the love, and it's time to part. On the other hand there are many resources that can help both partners find their way back, if they are willing to do the work. One thing stands out for me in your post--what gets your wife "in the mood". Check out the book by Gary Chapman, The Five Love Languages. We all have triggers that make us feel loved by our partner. Maybe your wife's trigger is "Acts of Service"? I think both of you could benefit from reading this. You should also read Scrivdog's threads...... By the way, both of you have to want to work on your marriage. I wonder what it would take to get your wife's attention, for her to see how unhappy you are. Have you told her? One thing is for sure, you aren't alone.
Author angryyoungman70 Posted March 25, 2008 Author Posted March 25, 2008 Bought Gary Chapman's book. Read it. In order for me to feel like I'm gettin' enough, I would have to bust my arse constantly, doing things I dont always enjoy. Is that living? There's also no gaurantee that the work I do will appease her. It seems to me that she wants me to be the Dad she never had, and all I'm looking for is an affectionate wife who validates my existance. I can not be her dad. She refuses to give me what I need. We did seperate last summer, as I finally had enough. I saw that she would try to take everything, sucked it up, appologised, told her it was ALL MY FAULT, and promised to change to suit her personality (which meant no more going out with friends, no more fly-fishing, no more mtn biking, ect). I also made a commitment to spend all of my free time at home, doing the projects she wants me to do. Her end in the bargain? No change whatsoever. Remember, it's me who has the problem right? She's perfect, always right, and absolved of any issues we have. Well, it made me more miserable than ever. I was even at a point a month ago where a tall bridge and a noose seemed more appealing than spending another 10 years with her.
Ladyjane14 Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 The only time when my W seems to be "in the mood" is after I have spent all weekned working on rennovations or fixing her car. I can wine and dine her, write little love notes, pen a poem and make it into a jigsaw puzzle - place the pieces in an envelope and tuck it under her pillow....NADA. Hmmmm... men who are "working on renovations" or "fixing cars" are usually sweating a bit while they're working. Have you noticed if you get the same reaction from other less physical tasks? Maybe she's digging your pheromones when you perspire. (????) I've heard it said that up to 90% of human communication is non-verbal. You know... not all women go for all that sticky-sweet "love note and poetry" stuff. Personally, I despise poetry and I'm too parsimonious for flowers. But, let my sweetie come in the door smelling of fresh, clean perspiration and motor oil.... and suddenly he's got my attention.
Scrivdog Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 Bought Gary Chapman's book. Read it. In order for me to feel like I'm gettin' enough, I would have to bust my arse constantly, doing things I dont always enjoy. Is that living? There's also no gaurantee that the work I do will appease her. It seems to me that she wants me to be the Dad she never had, and all I'm looking for is an affectionate wife who validates my existance. I can not be her dad. She refuses to give me what I need. We did seperate last summer, as I finally had enough. I saw that she would try to take everything, sucked it up, appologised, told her it was ALL MY FAULT, and promised to change to suit her personality (which meant no more going out with friends, no more fly-fishing, no more mtn biking, ect). I also made a commitment to spend all of my free time at home, doing the projects she wants me to do. Her end in the bargain? No change whatsoever. Remember, it's me who has the problem right? She's perfect, always right, and absolved of any issues we have. Well, it made me more miserable than ever. I was even at a point a month ago where a tall bridge and a noose seemed more appealing than spending another 10 years with her. Hey at least you found the key to her heart. If that's what gets her going - then get a fleet of cars to renovate, man!
jmargel Posted March 26, 2008 Posted March 26, 2008 At this point I think it might be best to write her a letter, expressing everything you are feeling. I say a letter because it will allow her to read it, instead of interrupting you and an argument starts. Give her the letter and just walk away. Don't be there when she reads it. In this letter I would re-affirm that you love her but that you can't continue to be treated like this. That you really hope she gets counseling for herself and that you need to start doing things that make you happy. Let her know that you are not cheating and that there is no one else. That will be her first reaction. You can't stay in a relationship for the kids. All that does is teach them to be unhappy. Was she like this before marriage? Her putting more attention into her dog, shows that she has detached from you quite a bit.
annieo Posted March 26, 2008 Posted March 26, 2008 I agree with ladyjane14 - any contrived, cliche romantic stuff makes me feel like I'm being played. Especially if it's done purely to get me to get my clothes off. We can tell the difference, you know, between a sweet, no-agenda romantic gesture and a sex campaign. Plus, I doubt that your overriding anger and resentment towards her are a big secret. I'm sure she can feel it, and who wants to have sex with someone who they feel is pissed off at them. I can understand your frustration, but I think your sexual issues are a symptom of bigger communication problems. If I was you, I wouldn't be keeping score on sex, I'd be shopping for a MC, if your really want to try to make things better for both of you.
smartgirl Posted March 26, 2008 Posted March 26, 2008 Much of what I've read or studied about relationships tends to point to the fact that a healthy sex life is a good indicator of a healthy marriage/relationship. So.... if that is the case, I'm curious to find out how often people in this forum can HONESTLY say that they have "mutually gratifying sex" with their SO. As for me, I'll start since I'm penning this post, I've been with my W since I was 19 (now 37) have never cheated, and on average it's been less than 20 times per year (3 times since Christmas). And NO, I have NOT been happy for the better part of the last 17 years. I do believe that a healthy sex life is very important to the success of a marriage. My H and I are in a good place now, but we have certainly hit some bumps along the way. We have been together since we were teens -- over 30 years. We were each other's first. Our sex life was very basic for most of that time. I asked periodically for the first 5 or so years for more in the way of foreplay. Tried verbal and non-verbal ways to communicate that. He would get defensive and then almost avoid sex for awhile because it made him feel under pressure to perform. I realize now that he just didn't know what else to do and rather than risk failure he wouldn't try. So I gave up and resigned myself to mediocre sex. It was compensated for somewhat by the frequency. My H clearly had a high level of desire for me and we would have sex maybe 4x a week on average. At least I felt desired. Had kids, kids got older, job got harder, working long hours in atmosphere of constant stress and anxiety, started to resent total lack of romance or eroticism, always tired, started to gain weight, lost my sexual desire. Never turned sex down, but I clearly wasn't enjoying it and was barely participating. Strain on relationship and lack of rewarding sex left him vulnerable for an affair. Sexpot barracuda at office looking for a way out of her marriage starts to pursue H. He is feeling lonely and has always felt inadequate due to his lack of experience with other women. They have an A for almost a year till I find out. We do a lot of talking and we are both really trying to listen and understand the other person's point of view in a way we never had before. He starts to put more effort into romance outside the bedroom and attentiveness inside the bedroom. I do too. Now it is the best it has ever been. It would be really great if we didn't have the baggage from the A still to deal with. Hardest on me and after two years I don't know if these doubts and fears are ever really going to go away. This is a long way of saying that: o yes, the health of your sex life matters A LOT o if you don't fix it, something bad will happen o it is not too late to make changes o this is a two way street. You need to think about what else you could be doing so that she would want it more. Just pushing for it isn't going to work. o suggest "Mars and Venus in the Bedroom." This will help you to understand how a woman views this interaction and you may be able to use the information to your advantage. o after you have read the book talk to your wife about how you are feeling -- without being critical or accusatory -- and tell her you want to make things better for the BOTH of you. Good luck.
smartgirl Posted March 26, 2008 Posted March 26, 2008 Well, I'm not usually one to blow my own horn, but I think that I'm generally a very kind, giving individual who would do absolutely anything for the people that I love. The only time when my W seems to be "in the mood" is after I have spent all weekned working on rennovations or fixing her car. I can wine and dine her, write little love notes, pen a poem and make it into a jigsaw puzzle - place the pieces in an envelope and tuck it under her pillow....NADA. I don't think I'm hideous, quite the opposite, and even though I've put on a few lbs over the last year or so, I'm still in pretty good shape. I'm quite gregarious and joke around quite a bit. She's an introvert who reads novels non-stop and gives our dog more attention then me. This last part interested me. Have you ever done any reading about personality types - Meirs-Briggs stuff? It can really help you understand things about your SO and differentiate things that they can change about themselves vs things that they really can't. Check out www.personalitypage.com where you can take the test and read profiles of the different types. If your wife is an INTJ, and from your description this sounds possible, you will never get a great deal more verbal or physical affection than you are now. They aren't willful about it, they are just wired a certain way and are limited by their own view of the world. They also tend not to be very responsive to or appreciative of the kind of romantic gestures that you want and that you say you are giving to her. I think it is easier for a woman to tolerate this in a man than for a man to tolerate in a woman because of our socialized expectations. It is hard to motivate this type of person to see things from another's perspective. My H was motivated to change ultimately by his extreme guilt for having an A. But I bet if I had the A or left because he wouldn't change that he would have just dug in deeper all the more convinced he was right. Give the profile a read and tell me what you think.
Author angryyoungman70 Posted March 26, 2008 Author Posted March 26, 2008 Briggs/Meyers profiling done long ago. I actually am a fan of the "True Colors" profiling. I am a Blue/Orange, My wife is a Green/Gold. We are the two types that honestly should not be together. I recognize her triggers, reservations, personality type, and have lately come to understand my own personality type. I know that she will never change or really be the kind of wife that I have wanted her to be. While I have made major changes to try and suit her needs and expectations, she has made minor changes, but always falls back into her own groove and I know that she will never meet my expectations. Obviously, I am doing what I can to keep the marriege together because I want to remain as a family. I love my kids dearly and want to be with them every day. Even though my kids mean the world to me, I regret ever getting married to my W, as the better part of the past 17 years have been miserable for me.
Nonsense Posted March 29, 2008 Posted March 29, 2008 Much of what I've read or studied about relationships tends to point to the fact that a healthy sex life is a good indicator of a healthy marriage/relationship. So.... if that is the case, I'm curious to find out how often people in this forum can HONESTLY say that they have "mutually gratifying sex" with their SO. As for me, I'll start since I'm penning this post, I've been with my W since I was 19 (now 37) have never cheated, and on average it's been less than 20 times per year (3 times since Christmas). And NO, I have NOT been happy for the better part of the last 17 years. I have been with my H since I was 19. We got married when I was 22. I am now 34. We have sex on AVERAGE of 2 to 3 times per week. Of course that is an average which means we have moments where we dont have it for a couple of weeks and then we have moments where we are like bunnies and have it 5 times in 2 days. You not being happy, does that ALL stem from this sexual incompatibility or is it a culmination fo things? The issue may not be sex but other issues that cause the sex to be infrequent. I think a "good sex life" is subjective. If you get 2 people who have low drives and are happy with once a month, then thats good. if you get two sexual demons that want to hump all the time and do, thats good. The problem is when you get 2 people who do not share the same idea of what a "good sex life" contains.
OldEurope Posted March 30, 2008 Posted March 30, 2008 We did seperate last summer, as I finally had enough. I saw that she would try to take everything, sucked it up, appologised, told her it was ALL MY FAULT, and promised to change to suit her personality (which meant no more going out with friends, no more fly-fishing, no more mtn biking, ect). I also made a commitment to spend all of my free time at home, doing the projects she wants me to do. Her end in the bargain? No change whatsoever. Remember, it's me who has the problem right? She's perfect, always right, and absolved of any issues we have. Well, it made me more miserable than ever. I was even at a point a month ago where a tall bridge and a noose seemed more appealing than spending another 10 years with her. This is exactly the kind of situation in which I would not only understand an affair, I would encourage it. No man, no human should live with this kind of nonsense, and before everyone chimes in with But He Should Divorce First! The guy stands to lose all that HE has worked for and most likely his kids--a punishment for what? That he was starving to death and asked for nourishment? How dare he! And if its been like this for 17 years, then I agree with Lizzie that the chances of the wife being revived are little... And to those pooh-poohing this man's attempts to charm his wife with the poetry and flowers----the point is, he is trying to do something, trying to show attention and affection... Marriage needs a great sex life, period. I for one am enormously passionate and could not imagine these horrendous dry spells I read about here... xo OE Angry, you have my sympathy.
silktricks Posted March 30, 2008 Posted March 30, 2008 Much of what I've read or studied about relationships tends to point to the fact that a healthy sex life is a good indicator of a healthy marriage/relationship. So.... if that is the case, I'm curious to find out how often people in this forum can HONESTLY say that they have "mutually gratifying sex" with their SO. As for me, I'll start since I'm penning this post, I've been with my W since I was 19 (now 37) have never cheated, and on average it's been less than 20 times per year (3 times since Christmas). And NO, I have NOT been happy for the better part of the last 17 years. My h and I have been together for 30 years, married 18. I can HONESTLY say that we have mutually gratifying sex - at LEAST 5 times a week. However, I can also honestly say that we've had a number of rough spots - and at least a couple of those rough spots have been over sex. Don't get me wrong - we both LOVE sex. And we love it most with each other. But... sometimes I want what he doesn't or he wants what I don't, or I'm too tired, or he's too wired - or whatever. But on to the crux of the rest of the problem. IMO - and it's ONLY my opinion - If your wife doesn't want sex and you do... and you've done everything but stand on your head to get her attention - and it sounds like you have Then, it's time for the "talk". Tell her, in NO uncertain terms, that you need SEX. You need love. You need what marriage is really about. love companionship SEX SEX SEX and more love and companionship.. (got ya) And that if she doesn't want that then you plan on having sex with other people. You won't divorce her, because it isn't financially viable for either of you, but neither will you deny yourself what is important to you simply because she isn't interested. Now, I can honestly say that I wouldn't follow my own advice here. I'd just get divorced, take the financial hit and get on with my life (for cryin' out loud, you're only 37!!!). But that's me, my choices, and what's important in my life.
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