Am I Totally Crazy?

[Ocean-Blue]

Hello LoveShackers...

 

Some of you know that my R was plagued by constant drama.

 

Well...

 

I asked him a hypothetical tonight. I began with one hypothetical which led to another.

 

Anyway, I asked him if he would leave me (while we're dating) if he found out I couldn't have children (so if I were barren).

 

He said yes.

 

His reasons: his mother wants grandchildren from her eldest son.

 

When I reacted to this, he told me I was crazy and needed "professional help." He said I shouldn't ask questions like this if I don't like the answer.

 

This was the final straw. I guess I was an idiot all this time. Hah.

 

So, am I crazy?

[SeraBella]

That would upset and hurt me greatly as well.

 

If it was the only hurtful thing my boyfriend ever said to me, I would probably try to look past it; but I know it would stick in my mind and drive me crazy. If it was among many other things he said to me that were hurtful and lacking compassion, I would probably want to end things.

 

I'm sure he's not the only person in the world to feel this way, butone would also like to think her/his love would not leave them after discovering something like that. Finding that out would be so painful, and then losing your bf/gf because of it would just be unbearable. I know many people do end up separating because they are unable to deal with issues like this when they occur.

 

I guess it's better to find out before you have to deal with major issues relating to that. Or other major issues for that matter.

 

It's true that you don't want to pose hypothetical questions when you know you won't like the answer...but this isn't the same as asking something like "do you think that girl is pretty?" or "do you think I need to lose 15 pounds?"

[Woggle]

Well he did have a point. If you don't an anser don't ask the question. You asked him and he answered honestly. It's harsh but what did you expect?

[Ocean-Blue]

That would upset and hurt me greatly as well.

 

If it was the only hurtful thing my boyfriend ever said to me, I would probably try to look past it; but I know it would stick in my mind and drive me crazy. If it was among many other things he said to me that were hurtful and lacking compassion, I would probably want to end things.

 

I'm sure he's not the only person in the world to feel this way, butone would also like to think her/his love would not leave them after discovering something like that. Finding that out would be so painful, and then losing your bf/gf because of it would just be unbearable. I know many people do end up separating because they are unable to deal with issues like this when they occur.

 

I guess it's better to find out before you have to deal with major issues relating to that. Or other major issues for that matter.

 

It's true that you don't want to pose hypothetical questions when you know you won't like the answer...but this isn't the same as asking something like "do you think that girl is pretty?" or "do you think I need to lose 15 pounds?"

 

SeraBella, thanks for the response!

 

My bf is a relatively decent guy. But he had been sorely lacking in the compassion department as of late.

 

I just can't wrap my mind around this. I don't understand how you can love someone "unconditionally" and yet be ready to leave them if it is discovered that they are sterile.

 

I'm not even angry. I'm very hurt. This goes to the core of everything that I am. To know that a man that I love would leave me for this...I dunno.

[Ocean-Blue]

Well he did have a point. If you don't an anser don't ask the question. You asked him and he answered honestly. It's harsh but what did you expect?

 

Fine, he had a point: don't ask questions if you think you may not like the answer. The truth is, I never thought he'd answer the way he did.

 

This thing began as a joke on my part. I initially asked him if he would pick satellite over me (a life with me sans satellite or a life without me and satellite). He picked the satellite. I thought he was kidding and made him swear and he did.

 

He said I was comparing apples and oranges. So then I asked him if he'd pick having children over satellite, he said no. I asked him, "so if you can pick something over satellite, why not pick me?" Then I asked him about the infertility thing.

 

It was a whole can of worms I didn't even know existed.

 

Thanks for responding Woggle.

[Kamille]

Well you asked a hypothetical question and he answered hypothetically. Who's to say what he would actually do if you two were really confronted to that situation.

 

I know it's hard, but I would put this in the "let it go" drawer.

 

But I'm not sure I believe in unconditionnal love anyways. I think that the kind of love couples share always has a certain number of conditions: would you still want to be with him if he started shooting heroin? We all have deal breakers.

 

But maybe I'm misunderstanding your concerns here OB. Maybe what you are looking for (as I am in my relationship) is confirmation that he is as invested as you. Well, my new trick is to stop trying to figure it out. It's already had positive results. I hate feeling insecure, so I decided I was going to focus on making myself happy and hope that bf was going to decide to tag along for the ride.

[blind_otter]

I don't think it is possible for an adult man and an adult woman to love "unconditionally." I think every adult relationship has conditions. If you cheat on me, beat me, or are unable to open your mind and accept that I may have different opinions than you do - I will likely be unable to continue a relationship. Everyone has "red flags" and "deal breakers".

 

Also, there is the whole issue of couples where one wants children and the other doesn't - well then, they should likely break up, because there is a fundamental difference of opinion in that area.

 

Beyond that, though - back to your situ....I think that the way he responded was total crap. He could say something like, we could look into infertility treatments. Do what it takes. Maybe adopt. His mother's wishes be damned - she does not have to live his life, he does. She will be dead and gone and he will still have to live his life, with all his regrets as an albatross around his neck.

 

I don't think you're crazy, OB.

[Ocean-Blue]

Well you asked a hypothetical question and he answered hypothetically. Who's to say what he would actually do if you two were really confronted to that situation.

 

I know it's hard, but I would put this in the "let it go" drawer.

 

But I'm not sure I believe in unconditionnal love anyways. I think that the kind of love couples share always has a certain number of conditions: would you still want to be with him if he started shooting heroin? We all have deal breakers.

 

But maybe I'm misunderstanding your concerns here OB. Maybe what you are looking for (as I am in my relationship) is confirmation that he is as invested as you. Well, my new trick is to stop trying to figure it out. It's already had positive results. I hate feeling insecure, so I decided I was going to focus on making myself happy and hope that bf was going to decide to tag along for the ride.

 

 

You are right, I don't know definitively what he would do in such a situation. What bothers me is that he can actually say he'd leave me and for something that would be out of my control.

 

I suppose "unconditional" is the wrong word to use.

 

I don't know what I'm looking for Kamille. I mean, yes, I think I know he's invested in the R (read: he wants to get married). But that's about it. I don't to be a last priority for him. I've had this nagging feeling that I'll always come second to his family. I love my family as much as the next person, but I also know that when you get married priorities shift - you become a family of your own too. I don't think he feels this way.

 

I too hate the feeling of insecurity. Seems that's all I've been lately. I don't really recognize myself much nowadays. I read old journal entries, talk to friends, etc. and realize that I've changed greatly. Some of the change, I really don't like.

 

I'd like to get past this, but as SeraBella pointed out, this will follow me wherever I go. I can't just let it go. Other things, yes. But to know that he may drop me for something that I can't help... I don't know. I feel like I have no security. How I let him hold me and kiss me and tell me he loves me when I know THIS?

 

It will be hard. And I don't know that it's something I can get over.

 

Thank you for responding!

[Ocean-Blue]

I don't think it is possible for an adult man and an adult woman to love "unconditionally." I think every adult relationship has conditions. If you cheat on me, beat me, or are unable to open your mind and accept that I may have different opinions than you do - I will likely be unable to continue a relationship. Everyone has "red flags" and "deal breakers".

 

Also, there is the whole issue of couples where one wants children and the other doesn't - well then, they should likely break up, because there is a fundamental difference of opinion in that area.

 

Beyond that, though - back to your situ....I think that the way he responded was total crap. He could say something like, we could look into infertility treatments. Do what it takes. Maybe adopt. His mother's wishes be damned - she does not have to live his life, he does. She will be dead and gone and he will still have to live his life, with all his regrets as an albatross around his neck.

 

I don't think you're crazy, OB.

 

Hey B_O, you're right...physical abuse is one thing that I could never put up with. If I really loved him, I would stick around and try to get him help...but if it continued, I'd have to walk away at some point. As I said to Kamille, "unconditional" was the wrong word to use.

 

I wanted my bf to say that he has enough faith in us that somehow we'd end up with a kid. He didn't. I wanted him to say that with technology as advanced as it is (and still advancing) that we would be OK. He didn't.

 

I don't know what to make of this. The lazy, nervous part of me is telling me to just forget about it and just stick with him. But the other part, the one that yearns for something real is telling me to run as far away as possible.

 

I want babies as much as he does. Hell, I'm not even infertile (that I know of). You'd think that he'd be a little more sensitive and at least said something to make me think he did love me. But no, he was too engrossed in the game on TV. He told me to call him later, after the game. So I did. And of course he was tired by then. He didn't have time to discuss it...time to coddle me. His idea of discussing something is staying on the phone with me while I blab my head off.

 

What irks me the most is that I end up looking like the crazy one. I realized, the longer I tried to make my point, the loonier I sounded. It was like silently beating against a brick wall...

Edited March 25, 2008 by Ocean-Blue

[MakeLemonade]

I think he was using his mom as scapegoat perhaps though I am sure that is true. I also think he could have said it nicer, but at least he was somewhat honest about it rather than just telling you what you wanted to hear. I would guess he really wants kids and it probably would be a deal breaker for him if he wasn't married to you. Then again, as Kamille said - who is to say that is what he would actually do if the situation presented itself.

 

I am a firm believer in don't ask the question if you can't handle the answer.

[Ocean-Blue]

I think he was using his mom as scapegoat perhaps though I am sure that is true. I also think he could have said it nicer, but at least he was somewhat honest about it rather than just telling you what you wanted to hear. I would guess he really wants kids and it probably would be a deal breaker for him if he wasn't married to you. Then again, as Kamille said - who is to say that is what he would actually do if the situation presented itself.

 

I am a firm believer in don't ask the question if you can't handle the answer.

 

What do you mean using her as a scapegoat? He is very much loyal to his family and is always thinking of their reputation, etc. He would never do anything to hurt or shame his family. For him, going into a marriage to someone who is infertile is a no-no b/c he can never give his mother the grandchildren she wants from him.

 

That's fine. But in the end, I become replaceable, disposable...I become an option and nothing more.

[Advocate's Devilette]

This guy sounds like someone you want to break up with, stat. When I am in a relationship with a man I ask myself 'Would this guy support me if I got cancer? would he be there for me through it if I lost my hair, etc.?' If the answer in my head and heart is "no" it's time to break up.

[MakeLemonade]

What do you mean using her as a scapegoat? He is very much loyal to his family and is always thinking of their reputation, etc. He would never do anything to hurt or shame his family. For him, going into a marriage to someone who is infertile is a no-no b/c he can never give his mother the grandchildren she wants from him.

 

That's fine. But in the end, I become replaceable, disposable...I become an option and nothing more.

 

I just meant - saying his mom wants the grandkids (which I am sure it true too), rather than coming right out and saying he wants the kids. That's all. Didn't mean anything inflammatory by it. And you aren't infertile so don't worry about it. Focus on his honesty! That is a great thing. I can't really blame him for wanting kids, I wouldn't have married a man if I knew he was sterile. I wanted kids created by their own mom & dad too much. Lots of people want that. Again though - hard to say - true love is powerful, you can change the things you "want" when you really love someone. Sometimes that works out, sometimes it doesn't though. People ultimately want what they want.

 

I know you have every right to feel hurt by it though. It is kind of a hard thing to hear.

[Touche]

OB, you're not crazy. You said you don't like the changes you're seeing in yourself...the insecurity. He obviously brings out the worst in you.

 

And after all this time, I always get the feeling that you're just looking for a reason/excuse to break up with him. Like what he does/doesn't do is never quite bad enough to make the break but you'd like it to be.

 

Ok, this was bad enough. You have permission to break up with him.

 

All kidding aside though it's worth thinking about. I certainly wouldn't entertain the idea of marriage with someone who makes me feel like that. And it's clear you need someone more verbal/communicative and engaged than this man is with you, OB.

 

The only other alternative is for YOU to change and accept how he is. I don't see that happening.

[Ocean-Blue]

I just meant - saying his mom wants the grandkids (which I am sure it true too), rather than coming right out and saying he wants the kids. That's all. Didn't mean anything inflammatory by it. And you aren't infertile so don't worry about it. Focus on his honesty! That is a great thing. I can't really blame him for wanting kids, I wouldn't have married a man if I knew he was sterile. I wanted kids created by their own mom & dad too much. Lots of people want that. Again though - hard to say - true love is powerful, you can change the things you "want" when you really love someone. Sometimes that works out, sometimes it doesn't though. People ultimately want what they want.

 

I know you have every right to feel hurt by it though. It is kind of a hard thing to hear.

 

No no, I know you didn't mean anything negative by it. I just wanted you to clarify. I know he wants kids, but he knows his mother REALLY wants his grandchildren...so for him, that's a biggie. Like I said, he'd do anything for his mother.

 

I too want children that are biologically mine. And he's told me many times that he wants kids. I know how important it is to him. I guess more important than I am. C'est la vie I suppose.

 

Thanks for responding ML!

[kissingthecheek]

Several months ago I asked my ex bf if he would still be with the girl he dated when we were broken up if I had moved on. He said yes. When I expressed hurt, his reply was the same as your bf's, "Don't ask the question if you don't want the answer." What a jerk!!

 

Yes, I was feeling insecure and it was a stupid question. But, if he cared about me at all, he would've said, "No, baby. I realized that YOU were the one I wanted to be with." He KNEW that's what I NEEDED to hear from him after getting back together with him after HER!!! Just like your guy knows you're looking for reassurance. He'd rather hurt your feelings than throw you a crumb!!

 

I am FINALLY seeing the light. It is a PAINFUL process, but being with someone who cares so little for me is MORE PAINFUL.

[Ocean-Blue]

This guy sounds like someone you want to break up with' date=' stat. When I am in a relationship with a man I ask myself 'Would this guy support me if I got cancer? would he be there for me through it if I lost my hair, etc.?' If the answer in my head and heart is "no" it's time to break up.[/quote']

 

While he can be a royal meanie, I don't think he'd abadon me if I got cancer (at least I don't think he would). Plus, he thinks marriage is forever. So no doubt he'll stick with me once we're married. I guess before marriage anything goes...maybe?

 

I'm trying to convince myself to let go. It ain't easy, that's for sure.

[Ocean-Blue]

OB, you're not crazy. You said you don't like the changes you're seeing in yourself...the insecurity. He obviously brings out the worst in you.

 

And after all this time, I always get the feeling that you're just looking for a reason/excuse to break up with him. Like what he does/doesn't do is never quite bad enough to make the break but you'd like it to be.

 

Ok, this was bad enough. You have permission to break up with him.

 

All kidding aside though it's worth thinking about. I certainly wouldn't entertain the idea of marriage with someone who makes me feel like that. And it's clear you need someone more verbal/communicative and engaged than this man is with you, OB.

 

The only other alternative is for YOU to change and accept how he is. I don't see that happening.

 

Thanks for the input Touche. I don't know if I'm looking for an excuse. I don't think I am... I mean, I really am into him. But yes, you are right, this was bad enough. A final straw like I said.

 

I just don't know how I go about forgetting. I've never had to do it before. I do know that this R can't continue like this. I doubt there will be any substantial change...and I sure am not going to bring my parents into it (by telling them about the R) when things are as precarious as they are.

[Ocean-Blue]

Several months ago I asked my ex bf if he would still be with the girl he dated when we were broken up if I had moved on. He said yes. When I expressed hurt, his reply was the same as your bf's, "Don't ask the question if you don't want the answer." What a jerk!!

 

Yes, I was feeling insecure and it was a stupid question. But, if he cared about me at all, he would've said, "No, baby. I realized that YOU were the one I wanted to be with." He KNEW that's what I NEEDED to hear from him after getting back together with him after HER!!! Just like your guy knows you're looking for reassurance. He'd rather hurt your feelings than throw you a crumb!!

 

I am FINALLY seeing the light. It is a PAINFUL process, but being with someone who cares so little for me is MORE PAINFUL.

 

It's hard for me too kissing. It's really BLEH. I was walking home today from school and thinking, "he doesn't care." The thought hit me suddenly. I mean...what's the point of loving and giving if you know that person would drop for something else.

 

I hope you're feeling better. Have you gone NC with this ex of yours? If so, how is that going? I dread NC. Makes my stomach turn actually.

[Ocean-Blue]

So I talked to him today.

 

Turns out he regrets saying what he did. He told me that he thought about it and felt badly about what he said...that he didn't mean it but that he was frustrated with my constant "nagging" and so he just let it continue. He said he felt badly for hurting me.

 

He said that asking such hypotheticals is pointless and he doesn't understand why anyone would do that.

 

I asked him if he meant what he said... He says yes. He wouldn't leave me if that were to happen.

 

We both acknowledged that our R is a little dysfunctional (how we handle things...). I'm glad I got this sorted out. I know I'll ask him again just for some kind of reassurance (I know, this is unhealthy...).

 

I need to get out this insecurity thing... It is a rut that I am in. I need to stop going to him to validate things for me.

 

Thank you to those who took the time to read and respond to my posts. You guys have no idea how much I appreciate it. THANK YOU!

[Storyrider]

Before I read your final post, I already had a different take on things, Ocean. I think he viewed your question as hostile and so responded with a barbed answer. It sounds like he has already explained himself anyway.

 

Also, about his over-attachment to his parents, remember he is still pretty young. There is time for him to outgrow this.

[kissingthecheek]

Yes, OB, I've gone NC with him. I did call him after I saw that he had already gotten on match.com, but haven't answered his calls or texts since then.

 

You're situation sounds a bit different. Your bf sounds like he DOES have a heart and the capacity to empathize with your hurt feelings. He cares. My ex has made it plain in countless ways that he does not.

 

During our last conversation he asked if we could use each other for support during the breakup. My response was that I couldn't be there to comfort him while he was clearly looking for another partner. When he succeeds, I would THEN have to deal with the knowledge that he had found someone else ALL OVER AGAIN and deal with that pain all over again. I simply am not able to transition from romantic feelings to friendship feelings like that. Apparently he can. Good for him.

 

This has been terrible. I've been very depressed and lethargic, but I honestly feel that it's for the best. And I am SO ready to put all that pain behind me. And it will never be BEHIND me as long as I am talking to him. Of that I am convinced.

 

Best wishes, OB. It sounds like y'all are just having some growing pains. It sounds like he CARES, though, and that is what it is all about.

[blind_otter]

I'm glad you talked it out. IME people can say things in haste that they later regret pretty often, especially when you spend a lot of time with them. Good communication!

[Ocean-Blue]

Yes, OB, I've gone NC with him. I did call him after I saw that he had already gotten on match.com, but haven't answered his calls or texts since then.

 

You're situation sounds a bit different. Your bf sounds like he DOES have a heart and the capacity to empathize with your hurt feelings. He cares. My ex has made it plain in countless ways that he does not.

 

During our last conversation he asked if we could use each other for support during the breakup. My response was that I couldn't be there to comfort him while he was clearly looking for another partner. When he succeeds, I would THEN have to deal with the knowledge that he had found someone else ALL OVER AGAIN and deal with that pain all over again. I simply am not able to transition from romantic feelings to friendship feelings like that. Apparently he can. Good for him.

 

This has been terrible. I've been very depressed and lethargic, but I honestly feel that it's for the best. And I am SO ready to put all that pain behind me. And it will never be BEHIND me as long as I am talking to him. Of that I am convinced.

 

Best wishes, OB. It sounds like y'all are just having some growing pains. It sounds like he CARES, though, and that is what it is all about.

 

I'm glad you're sticking to NC kissing. You're right in that talking to him will only prolong the inevitable.

 

I'll check out some of your recent threads and respond further if there's anything I can add.

 

Thanks for the wishes and thanks for responding! I'm hoping that I can put the drama on hold for a while...

[Ocean-Blue]

I'm glad you talked it out. IME people can say things in haste that they later regret pretty often, especially when you spend a lot of time with them. Good communication!

 

Yes, according to him he regrets it. I just wish he had stopped and thought about what he was saying! But anyway...

 

I'm trying to stay positive. My mind has a way of screwing with itself.

 

Thank you for the response.