Ladyjane14 Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 I do think though that human nature is such that we value that which we don't have and hold in contempt that which is within easy reach. A few weeks ago I was within easy reach and in my place - therefore I was of no value. Now that someone else sees something in me - she thinks she sees it too. It's the classic human reaction - one that she's acting on now. Don't mistake common complacency for an assignment of value, Scriv. You sell yourself short when you do. It's important, during the reconciliation phase, that we give the benefit of doubt to our partners. If I hadn't elected to BELIEVE my husband's words of reassurance back then, we wouldn't be here now. Tie goes to the runner. What do you have to lose that's not already lost by taking her at her word, and BELIEVING that she loves you and that you're important to her. I don't doubt that someday she may a lightbulb moment - but right now I think that acting too much on raw emotion for it to be anything like infatuation in the classic sense. Once the drivers for this emotion is gone - all that will be left is anger. You're right. She's going to be mad. It's going to be a mess for awhile. She'll be on "the rollercoaster". But what I mean by Infatuation isn't just the emotional response, it's the biochemical response. If you two can utilize this opportunity for brand new bonding, all the while establishing better relationship habits... you end up with something absolutely tremendous, something that's been tempered by adversity, something stronger than what it was before. Now... I'm not saying it's easy. But, as a possibility, it exists. I know. I'm willing to work on things if she is. But I this may not work because I won't play the part of the classic Don-Juan style cheater while she plays the corresponding Oxygen channel variety betrayed houswife. I did my part in this marriage - and I did it well. I provided - well better than average. I was emotionally available and invested. I also am and always was a good father. I also have been a good listener and a giving person. If she chose to withrdraw herself from the role as a lover then I think I had the right to know why - especially given that I opened the discussion many, many times. While not as easily accepted - because there is no one event to point to like "aha, you cheated!", the act of withholding emotional and physical closeness while pretending there's nothing wrong is dishonest. I felt like I was being "had" - I think I had reason to think so. It's like riding the tandem bike, huffing and puffing - only to find that the person behind you quit pedaling - or only pedal a few strokes every time you bring it up. I guarantee you'll be pissed enough to get off the bike. She needs to know all that. The only advice I'd give you is that in discussion, you qualify your statements as they apply to you emotionally. IOW, "I felt like..._______ " and then fill in the blank. She laments to me how she was such a perfect wife and why didn't I tell her that I was so unhappy - She accuses me of just wanting more sex - It's all idiocy of course - but she probably really believes it. She probably also believes that there was nothing wrong this whole time. Yup. She probably does believe all that. It's your job to share your POV with her. She's not a man. Her only experience of manhood is through your eyes. You'll have to connect the dots for her. I'll be honest with you, true reconciliation will leave you both more naked and vulnerable than you've ever been with another person in your entire life. My "a-ha" moment didn't come until he had his head laying in my lap, weeping out all the hurt he'd been feeling for all those years. It's risky to put your heart on the line. But if you don't, you won't make it. It takes courage to keep picking yourself up, dusting yourself off, and getting back in the game. It's a messy process. In the end though... when it works, it's worth every painful moment.
JustBreathe Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 The reason she alternates between jumping on you for sex and wanting to beat the crap out of you is really quite simple. She feels inadequate in the bedroom, with good cause, as you are or have been involved sexually with another woman. She wants to validate her sexuality sometimes, and other times, she just plain hates you. Don't you think she can tell you are still emotionally (if not physically as well) tied to another woman? What would that do to you were the situation reversed? Maybe she'll wake up sometime soon and realize no man is worth that kind of torture.
Owl Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 Scriv, I've just read your response to my questions, and LJ's as well. From what I've read of your situation, I can agree with those assessments of what may be going on here. I also recognize that things may well be too far gone between you and your wife for recovery to happen. My suggestions on how to proceed from here are still the best advice I can offer you at this point. Try to get an MC who can play that "nuetral third party" to help you and your wife work through all of the issues in your marriage...the neglect and issues prior to OW, and those that resulted from the infidelity both. This may have been that "wake up call" for the both of you. And if its not, at least you gave it your best shot before ending things. Just my advice...either way, I do wish you the best of luck moving forward.
jmargel Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 Owl, Yeah - I'm familiar with the history re-write thing. That's not what's going on here. It's a fact that sex and intimacy dwindled to almost nothing. I t's also a fact that I tried to discuss it with her many times. The case you mention - your wife never gave you any indication that anything was wrong. So there was nothing for you to act on. You got sucker-pinched by the affair. My W knows I discussed this with the many times - even before there was any OW of any kind. The issues were most definitely real. I remember agonizing over my options before any OW and while we were going through yet another dry spell. And you are guaranteed that this OW won't go down the same path? Once a couple gets married alot of the times the sex/intimacy does dwindle. Perhaps it might benefit you to start some marriage counseling. You are not 'owed' this OW by the way you think your wife mistreated you. Right now you are in a infactuation stage with this OW and once the puppy dog love stage wears off you will find yourself in the same situation as you are now with your wife.
angie2443 Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 Scrivdog, have you lost attraction to your wife? I was remembering some of the things you have said about women who are past 35 (I'm guessing your wife is) and how they aren't attractive anymore. How old is your wife and how old is your mistress? if you can't be attracted to your wife anymore, she probably senses this and this could be one of the reasons she withdrew from you.
Author Scrivdog Posted March 25, 2008 Author Posted March 25, 2008 Scrivdog, have you lost attraction to your wife? I was remembering some of the things you have said about women who are past 35 (I'm guessing your wife is) and how they aren't attractive anymore. How old is your wife and how old is your mistress? if you can't be attracted to your wife anymore, she probably senses this and this could be one of the reasons she withdrew from you. No - that's not it. I don't think they're unattractive at all. I think I may have said that many do let themsleves go and then have a bad time trying to find a mate post-divorce - not having faced the changes in people both men and women since they were in their 20's. Whole other subject. I've seen plenty of women in their 30's and 40's that are just might fine - ! Although W is plenty attractive - I've lost that lustful feeling towards her because of all the crap that has gone down over the years. I decided I wasn't going to need her when it came to sex. Period.
Author Scrivdog Posted March 25, 2008 Author Posted March 25, 2008 ..you are in a infactuation stage with this OW I am?
jmargel Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 Yes you are my friend.. Remember when you first met your wife and how she could do no wrong. How everything was great and how you could see spending your life with her. At some point in time you will have to take the next step with this OW. As in, moving in with her, come to terms with her bad habits, her anger, her dislikes, the way she deals with arguments.. Then you will end up marrying her. Your not dealing with the problem in the correct way, IMO. You are seeking a solution to your problem by trying to find it in someone else. You are not digging deep enough to find the solution.
Author Scrivdog Posted March 25, 2008 Author Posted March 25, 2008 Yes you are my friend.. Remember when you first met your wife and how she could do no wrong. How everything was great and how you could see spending your life with her. At some point in time you will have to take the next step with this OW. As in, moving in with her, come to terms with her bad habits, her anger, her dislikes, the way she deals with arguments.. Then you will end up marrying her. Your not dealing with the problem in the correct way, IMO. You are seeking a solution to your problem by trying to find it in someone else. You are not digging deep enough to find the solution. You haven't read my posts again
jmargel Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 I have read your posts. What I'm trying to figure out, is what do you want? Where do you see yourself in the next five years?
OldEurope Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 (edited) We do have what infidelity experts say is normal behavior after finding out you've been betrayed. If you want to call that psychobabble or not read about it because it's not good enough for your literary tastes or whatever, then good, but then you are not really in the position to discuss something you haven't read. That's all pretty irrelevant because the fact remains this is her reaction to being cheated on, which was SD's choice. Now SD has a choice about how to react to it... is he going to help her heal and help his marriage heal, or is he going to leave? Right now it sounds like his choice is to stay. So it doesn't really matter what you think about his wife's self-esteem. Hi Nadia, I think you might have misunderstood the meaning of what I was trying to say or perhaps I wasn't clear enough in what I intended... ...I am not so much trying to "guess" the wife's thinking here or establish her here as the main topic of discussion in place of Scrivdog's particular issues, but I was attempting to make a general point about behavior that is ultimately self-defeating. I think that few people would advise a friend to act out on such emotions as she did (the sex as possible self-"validation" and the physical abuse) which might simply distort one's state of mind even more. It is about healthy versus unhealthy behavior, and yes, there are universal statements one can make about that. You are right that she is not here and perhaps I was "addressing" such comments as if she were, but I read many posts at the beginning which I thought were a mite too condoning of that behavior. Commenting on her reaction is to a certain extent part of the "Scriv" theme here; I sought to give another opinion on that. "Psychobabble" is a harsh word, I know. And I am not totally unfamiliar with such books, but I find most of them worthless, I truly do. I suppose here this is just a matter of taste and not worth taking up so much time in discussion. My only advice is, I have worked in the publishing world and many of these books are written without any scientific, proven psychotherapeutic analysis whatsoever by folks truly out to manipulate for the money. Very often terms are invented to make people feel justified about certain behaviors as if they had scientific weight to them where often a cold, slap of reality and tough love might be better. Okay enough on that... But your points are well taken and I did not mean to come across as if "giving the wife advice" but more a general comment on what can help and what can hurt human mental health. OE Edited March 25, 2008 by OldEurope
twice_shy Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 I'm willing to work on things if she is. But I this may not work because I won't play the part of the classic Don-Juan style cheater while she plays the corresponding Oxygen channel variety betrayed houswife. I did my part in this marriage - and I did it well. I provided - well better than average. I was emotionally available and invested. I also am and always was a good father. I also have been a good listener and a giving person. . Ok, so we got it now. You did everything right, and this is all her fault. "I did my part in this marriage - and I did it well". That right there, in all of its arrogance, says it all. You put ALL the blame on her. Nuff said.
twice_shy Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 Yes but this thread isn't started by SD's wife nor is it really about her. It's about SD. Why not advise him on how to handle his wife's behavior, instead of trying to give advice to his wife, who isn't even here? Well that doesn't stop SD from painting his wife as the one with the sole problem here. He puts ALL the blame on her, and she isn't here. You may think this thread is about SD, but SD is turning it out to be about his wife, with whom he places all the blame.
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