I'm currently living with an insane person

[Scrivdog]

I'm in agreement with Owl... who's in agreement with LB and WWIU and anybody else who's told you that hysterical bonding and sudden rages are normal. I'm also in agreement that just because she's overwrought doesn't mean she gets to hit you. Owl's right... don't run, but set limits.

 

Has it finally occurred to you that your wife really did love you?

 

I mean, think about the adrenal reaction you're observing in her. Her emotions are DRIVING it. All this time, you've perceived "sexual rejection" as a withdrawal of love. And as I've been telling you for the better part of a year now, a woman's libido doesn't work like that. Men and women are different not only in sexual apparatus... but in what DRIVES the libido.

 

She loved you, Scriv. That's why she's acting crazy. A slap on your face might be ego-driven. Hysterical bonding is not.

 

The truth is - I'm not 100% sure this is love yet. I think there's some hurt pride, anger, and fear of losing the security of the status quo. I think there's also an element of not wanting someone else have what she thinks she has a right to - even if she didn't really want it herself.

 

I'll bet money that the "hysterical bonding" stops the minute she thinks she's stabilized me again. It's great and all - but I'm under no illusions here.

 

The fact is - if she loved me, she would have been more concerned about the state of our marriage. She would have like doing things to make my life more pleasant as I did for her. If she loved me - she would have been more loving and more affectionate. Maybe if she loved me she wouldn't have tried her damnest to be critical of me every chance she had.

 

So what - NOW that she sees I may not be her property is when she decides to get emotional? You see - I'm not callous as you may all think - but I am sceptical.

 

I'm 6'2" and weigh nearly 215 lbs. Unless she picks up a sharp object - I'm not overly concerned about her hurting me. She can punch me while I keep my hands up. She did catch me by surprise with the face scratch - but the punches were not harmful. She was venting - I don't think she was actually trying to cause me bodily damage. It's not in her character and for that reason - I'm cutting her slack on this.

[Tomcat33]

Wow so basically you are to stick around and put up with this maniac of a person just because you did her wrong.

 

Look who am I to tell you what to do but if you are sticking around trying to make it work with someone who is THIS out of control with their emotions I just don't see that you have a lot to offer yourself.

Your W is out of control, you slept with her to try to get some closeness and I think that's good you do need some intimacy to regain closeness again but this jeckyl and hyde thing involving physical violence is completely insane.

 

Your W is out of whack, and sounds like a control freak with very low self esteem. I don't know WHAT the heck you are doing trying to make things work with her? I really don't.

 

But since you are...I would stop toying with your emotions and with what other tell you, reach in and follow your gut .Do what you feel is best for everyone, is this really a good situation to be in an what's your goal, will you feel like you reached something worthy once you work through this?

 

Why don't you leave? Why don't you be strong face up to the fact you want out and just get out? This won't get better, because even if this passes you will eventually resent HER for how incredibly low she is acting right now, not only is she killing the little chance at attraction you can have for her and you still have to supress your feelings for the woman you are attracted to right now, your W is making you lose complete respect for her..well I assume that, I know I would if I was with a person that was THAT emotionally out of control. YUCK!

 

I'm sorry but your rel sounds completey doomed.

[Owl]

The fact is - if she loved me, she would have been more concerned about the state of our marriage.

 

I could have said the exact same thing about my wife...just before HER emotional affair.

 

But, here's the thing. Regardless of what you've said, what you've done in the past, she probably didn't TRULY get that you were serious about how bad you felt the marriage was. Until you PROVED it to her with the affair.

 

Seriously...just like I told OE a moment ago...go get those two books and read them. If you stop just looking at this from YOUR side, and start trying to see HER side, you'll have a far better chance to make things right all the way around.

 

Last thing...why didn't you tell OW that it was over forever?????

[Frances]

Sorry...I fail to see how attacking a person, almost "beating them to a pulp" and something called "hysterical bonding" are signs of love.

 

These are only signs of someone who cannot control herself and of her own possible mental imbalance; of someone who fears losing control she had or thought she had over another person; of someone who is, through sex and violence, desperate and acting in desperation. In other words--only signs of one thing: a pitifully low self-worth.

 

If this woman, his wife, had some self esteem, she might, yes, get upset at him, but she would most likely leave. She would expect him to prove himself to her. But she would not stay around for more humiliation. She only reinforced her own humiliation with these actions; she made herself look undignified and weak.

 

If I recall Scrivdog's original posts, he was trying rather hard to approach his wife about their problems, and these approaches were rebuffed. She is not innocent in this marriage break down. And she has absolutely no right to go attacking him.

 

I think the two of them need a separation from one another. That is the only thing that will allow perspective on their marriage.

 

 

I have read some of your posts and you seem to have a big down on BS's. I do not under stand women who will have any intimacy with married men but I will not judge them. The saying you need to walk a mile in some one's shoes before you can judge is a good one and you might like to think about it.

 

You have no idea about what Scivdog's wife thinks or feels. She is acting out of hurt and betrayal by someone she loved and might even still love. When they have made some sort of breakthrough in their marriage at this time, a separation from each other is the last thing they need jmop

[Tomcat33]

The truth is - I'm not 100% sure this is love yet. I think there's some hurt pride, anger, and fear of losing the security of the status quo. I think there's also an element of not wanting someone else have what she thinks she has a right to - even if she didn't really want it herself.

 

I'll bet money that the "hysterical bonding" stops the minute she thinks she's stabilized me again. It's great and all - but I'm under no illusions here.

 

.

 

 

THIS IS EXACTLY it, at least you can see the manipulation happening, she is doing just that. She doesn't love you, that's not love, that's neediness to the max. Neediness comes from low selfesteem not from love. there is nothing you can do to fill that void and now that you cheated on her she has the PERFECT scapegoat to manipulate you in to giving her more because her needs will NEVER be met by you especially now that you have Affair cloud hanging over the relationship she will milk this until she runs you to the ground emotionally make you a shell of yourself and then where will you go?

 

Look I know you are the culprit here you did cheat on her but this situation you are in compleltey toxic why are you enduring this climate?

 

 

I just read what OE said, I agree move out for a while you will end up killing each other if not physically emotionally for sure. Let her think what she wants, she has to LET GO and open up again if you stand any change at all. She won't forgive like this NO WAY.

[twice_shy]

For a few days all she wanted is sex. No complaints there. Then the other day - she pounced on me with no warning. Scratched my face, tore my shirt, and kept trying to beat me to a pulp until her arms got too tired to follow her rage. Now all she wants is sex again. That being said, I used to sleep naked, but now I wear drawstring shorts with the knot tied lest I wind up being John Wayne Bobbit part II.

 

I figure I have another week or so before I can begin to have a rational conversation with her about the state of the union.

 

 

Yup, this is what happens when someone finds out their spouse is cheating. She is overcompensating and has feelings of helplessness that her family is about to be ripped apart, so she is, for the time being, trying to be that sex starved wife she thinks all men want.

 

But that will fade once she starts thinking clearly and she sees you for what you really are. The sex will then stop, and she may just get a lawyer.

[twice_shy]

Scrivdog, you didn't tell your wife about the affair, but if you think your wife doesn't get that gut instinct then you are the one that is nuts.

 

You mistreat your wife, cheat on her and intentionally drive her to the brink of insanity and then you come on here and act all innocent. You are the one with major mental problems. I could only wish your wife was allowed to post on here so we could actually find out the truth.

 

Stop acting like a little child and face the consequences of what you are doing. Get yourself into marriage counseling with your wife and get your problems sorted out. If you think running away and divorcing is your solution, then I can only guarantee that your problems will follow you. Also, stop dragging this other woman through the mud.

 

Such a selfish, immature little kid.. You are the type of person who make us real men look bad.

 

Amen to that!!! Well said J!

[twice_shy]

1) I did tell her.

2) "You mistreat your wife".

3) "then you come on here and act all innocent" :rolleyes:

4) "You are the one with major mental problems"

5) "Also, stop dragging this other woman through the mud"

 

Dayum, son. Ordinarily, I let these kinds of maniacal responses slide except that usually you're a quality poster. But I must say - you slipped hard on this here thread.

 

No, he is right on the money.

[twice_shy]

The fact is - if she loved me, she would have been more concerned about the state of our marriage. .

 

Fact is, if you loved her, you wouldn't have stuck your member in other women.

[Trialbyfire]

The lack of emotion, beyond arrogance and observational qualities, make me wonder if this has happened, or is this a revenge fantasy, that Scrivdog is playing out. This could easily be an attempt to satisfy a starving need to gain control of his life.

[Tomcat33]

Yup, this is what happens when someone finds out their spouse is cheating. She is overcompensating and has feelings of helplessness that her family is about to be ripped apart, so she is, for the time being, trying to be that sex starved wife she thinks all men want.

 

But that will fade once she starts thinking clearly and she sees you for what you really are. The sex will then stop, and she may just get a lawyer.

 

 

NO this is what happens when someone is out of control, forgiveness does not have to come even if you try but doing what this woman is doing is using the A as a scapegoat to dump her own emotional issues.

 

she will NEVER get a lawyer she wants the status quo and to torture this guy and treat him hot and cold to make him pay. Revenge is all she has in store for him whilst keeping her comfy life, and her house and family life looking intact to those on the outside. She clearly does not have the self esteem to move on so she needs to keep him there.

 

She has her hand right up his proverbial puppet; guilt, and is using his guilt to put on a great show.

[twice_shy]

NO this is what happens when someone is out of control, forgiveness does not have to come even if you try but doing what this woman is doing is using the A as a scapegoat to dump her own emotional issues.

 

she will NEVER get a lawyer she wants the status quo and to torture this guy and treat him hot and cold to make him pay. Revenge is all she has in store for him whilst keeping her comfy life

 

Maybe not. Although I never physically attacked anyone, when I found out about my XW cheating, I flew into a rage. Although I took my frustrations out on the punching bag, I was just as angry as Scriv's wife is. I wanted to tear the shiit out of something.

 

And even though I was the neglected husband, I too wanted to have sex more, probably for a reassurance thing for me than anything.

 

And I too did not want to tear my family apart and lose the lifestyle we had become familiar with. But once the fog cleared and I started thinking straight, I got a lawyer and filed.

 

so yes, same thing could happen in this sitch. Everyone is different, it all depends on what she is really thinking.

 

But I have said it before, the best thing for Scriv and his wife is divorce.

I don't want to hear any boo-hooing about what they will lose. He should have thought about that before bedding down other women.

[twice_shy]

Revenge is all she has in store for him whilst keeping her comfy life, and her house and family life looking intact to those on the outside.

 

If she just wants revenge, why does she want sex with him all of a sudden?

 

If I wanted revenge, it would be because I hated someone. I wouldn't sleep with someone if I hated them.

[underpants]

The lack of emotion, beyond arrogance and observational qualities, make me wonder if this has happened, or is this a revenge fantasy, that Scrivdog is playing out. This could easily be an attempt to satisfy a starving need to gain control of his life.

 

I've noticed that as well. He does not seem to be invested at all, one way or the other.

 

Perhaps there are some diagnosis/issues to go all around. I get the vibe of complete apathy towards either woman and the state of the marriage.

 

That is how it reads to me at least.

 

Scriv, what is it that you would like to see happen? What outcome would you consider most beneficial?

[Owl]

Twice Shy, I normally don't care much for your posts.

 

BUT...this was dead on the money. Good response!

 

If she just wants revenge, why does she want sex with him all of a sudden?

 

If I wanted revenge, it would be because I hated someone. I wouldn't sleep with someone if I hated them.

 

TC, have you ever done any kind of reading about how people react to infidelity? As in the books I'd suggested to OE and Scriv earlier?

 

Its easy to see this from whatever "side" your on...but learning to view this from all three sides can make your advice more 'balanced'.

 

How would you know how a BS reacts unless you've either been one, or taken the time to try to 'see through those eyes'?

 

From MY personal experience and having gone through a lot of resources on infidelity, this IS "hysterical bonding", and a prime example of the extreme emotional reaction that most BS's suffer as a result of infidelity. There's nothing "new" here...

[Tomcat33]

Maybe not. Although I never physically attacked anyone, when I found out about my XW cheating, I flew into a rage. Although I took my frustrations out on the punching bag, I was just as angry as Scriv's wife is. I wanted to tear the shiit out of something.

 

And even though I was the neglected husband, I too wanted to have sex more, probably for a reassurance thing for me than anything.

 

And I too did not want to tear my family apart and lose the lifestyle we had become familiar with. But once the fog cleared and I started thinking straight, I got a lawyer and filed.

 

so yes, same thing could happen in this sitch. Everyone is different, it all depends on what she is really thinking.

 

But I have said it before, the best thing for Scriv and his wife is divorce.

I don't want to hear any boo-hooing about what they will lose. He should have thought about that before bedding down other women.

 

 

I agree with everthing you just wrote, I felt the exact same thing when my ex fiance cheated on me. I wanted to snap his neck in two, I punched my pillows too, I was going to suggest that actually because it felt good it felt as if I was punching him. Of course the emotions are uncontrollable and it is a HUGE deal to bear. I hear you loud and clear. BUT even within all that rage you tend to have enough awareness that no matter how low the other has sunk there are lines you would never cross and getting physically violent with them was one one of them.

It looks like you had the same reaction to not cross lines TwiceShy.

 

 

She wants sex because she needs the reassurance she is extremely conflicted right now and needs to feel like she can still have him, on some level still feels for him but is it LOVE? Her rage is overpowering I don't think she is doing it to gain any sort of closeness in terms of moving forward with the recovery she is doing it to take care of her own needs/self esteem which are CRUSHED right now.

 

Look revenge comes in many forms, people will sleep with the enemy if they have to if it means making them pay with the "bigger plan". She is clearly conflicted, she wants to feel reassured, it could be out of competing with the OW as well, like she doesn't want him to be with the OW so she tries to lure him sexually....see he even said he had put his OW on hold while his W was sleeping with him, she knows how to manipulate him. I don't know if she knows he is still seeing the OW but she does know how to push his buttons.

[Owl]

Interesting...

 

MY voice tells me that you still don't have a clue about what it takes to RECOVER a marriage from infidelity.

 

When you get that clue...let me know.

 

Don't come at ME with your permanent OW mindset, if you please.

Edited March 24, 2008 by Owl

[Tomcat33]

Interesting...

 

MY voice tells me that you still don't have a clue about what it takes to RECOVER a marriage from infidelity.

 

When you get that clue...let me know.

 

Don't come at ME with you're permanent OW mindset, if you please.

 

 

NO you are right I have no clue what it takes to recover from infidelity because I would never stick around with someone who cheated on me and nor do I want to know what it takes to recover from infidelity, so I have 0 interest in reading about that because it just does not apply to me or my life. If you can't respect me enough to not cross those lines and a W can sway my man away that easily, then she can keep him.. She is better off with him.

 

But I will tell you what I do have interest in and that is, being able to decipher between a healthy realtionship VS a toxic one. Scriv is in a toxic relationship with someone that is manilpulating him and is being pysycally abusive and he needs to decide if this is good enough for him.

 

Clearly people settle for different things.

[Owl]

So if you don't have a clue, nor want one...on how to RECOVER a marriage from infidelity...what on EARTH are you doing posting on any thread where they're still 'working through things'???

 

If you don't know how, don't want to know how, and can't possibly advise anything on recovering a marriage...why don't you avoid threads centered around that subject then?

 

AND STOP FLAMING THOSE OF US WHO HAVE A CLUE.

[Tomcat33]

Interesting...

 

MY voice tells me that you still don't have a clue about what it takes to RECOVER a marriage from infidelity.

 

When you get that clue...let me know.

 

You know OWL some things are just not worht fixing, the day you realise that is the day you will set yourself free.

 

Don't come at ME with your permanent OW mindset, if you please.

 

I am not coming to YOU, you are not center of the universe OWL. I am posting my opinions as you are, don't take them so personally and you won't get your feathers ruffled.

[Tomcat33]

 

TC, have you ever done any kind of reading about how people react to infidelity? As in the books I'd suggested to OE and Scriv earlier?

 

Its easy to see this from whatever "side" your on...but learning to view this from all three sides can make your advice more 'balanced'.

 

How would you know how a BS reacts unless you've either been one, or taken the time to try to 'see through those eyes'?

 

From MY personal experience and having gone through a lot of resources on infidelity, this IS "hysterical bonding", and a prime example of the extreme emotional reaction that most BS's suffer as a result of infidelity. There's nothing "new" here...

 

Stop flaming you!?!?!?!?

 

I just posted my comments and you attacked me here!

 

HELLO!:lmao:

 

 

 

What the hell do you know what being the OM in an A and yet you spend your ENTIRE day telling OW/OM what to do on the OW/OM forum, get a grip OWL!!

[Owl]

I do spend a lot of time over there...and MY advice is quite well received over there, with the primary exception of YOU.

 

That might be because I take a lot of time to try to see EVERYONE's viewpoint in the situation...not just ONE PERSPECTIVE.

 

A skill you might do well to cultivate.

 

And I've actually learned a heck of a lot from "my wife's little online A".

That reading I'd suggested is a great start...as well as my time on this and other forums.

 

That 'hysterical bonding' that you say isn't happening here? COMMON occurence. Read up...you'll find it there. Go over onto marriage builders where you can see all kinds of actual RECOVERY stories, and see how common that is. We went through it on our side as well...

[whichwayisup]

The fact is - if she loved me, she would have been more concerned about the state of our marriage. She would have like doing things to make my life more pleasant as I did for her. If she loved me - she would have been more loving and more affectionate. Maybe if she loved me she wouldn't have tried her damnest to be critical of me every chance she had.

 

I still have to finish reading all the posts, but I needed to stop and comment on what I quoted above.

 

If you loved YOUR wife and was more concerned about the state of your marriage you wouldn't be cheating on her. Seems you're blaming your choice to cheat on her and the state of your marriage ON her completely and that is really unfair.

 

I am not sure if you love love your wife or not, but you definately don't respect her. Not as a woman, not as your wife, or mother of your children. Know why? Because of the way you told her about your affair. And, the way you're talking in general about her. I don't understand what's going on inside your head, but it does seem like you resent your wife and she is the devil. The thing is, you were the one who cheated, not her, yet she is the bad guy in all this?

[whichwayisup]

I lived it thank you very much. in fact I lived something FAR more real than you

TC, that was a really cruel thing to say and uncalled for. Sometimes I wonder why you say stuff like this, especially since you preach about people respecting others, people bashing others, and yet you feel free to do it when you please. Owl has been through alot and you have no right to belittle his pain and what he went through with his wife.

[Ladyjane14]

The truth is - I'm not 100% sure this is love yet. I think there's some hurt pride, anger, and fear of losing the security of the status quo. I think there's also an element of not wanting someone else have what she thinks she has a right to - even if she didn't really want it herself.

 

I'll bet money that the "hysterical bonding" stops the minute she thinks she's stabilized me again. It's great and all - but I'm under no illusions here.

 

The fact is - if she loved me, she would have been more concerned about the state of our marriage. She would have like doing things to make my life more pleasant as I did for her. If she loved me - she would have been more loving and more affectionate. Maybe if she loved me she wouldn't have tried her damnest to be critical of me every chance she had.

 

So what - NOW that she sees I may not be her property is when she decides to get emotional? You see - I'm not callous as you may all think - but I am sceptical.

 

I'm 6'2" and weigh nearly 215 lbs. Unless she picks up a sharp object - I'm not overly concerned about her hurting me. She can punch me while I keep my hands up. She did catch me by surprise with the face scratch - but the punches were not harmful. She was venting - I don't think she was actually trying to cause me bodily damage. It's not in her character and for that reason - I'm cutting her slack on this.

 

{sigh}... Scriv, I think it'll come as no surprise that sometime I wish that I could smack you. :p:p

 

Why must you persist in taking the darkest and most pessimistic view of your wife and marriage? You've already said that she's got nothing to lose in terms of financial security by ending it. If she just wants the house and the money, you've already offered them to her. So, doesn't it stand to reason that she's looking for something less tangible?

 

You know, hon... you FIND what you look for in life. If you're looking for control mechanisms and manipulations, that's what you're gonna find. But if you look for the BEST in your wife, if you look for examples of honor and integrity and love in her, you're gonna find those too.

 

We're telling you RIGHT about this "hysterical bonding" thing. It has nothing to do with 'bringing you back to heel'. It's a biochemical response which stimulates the libido. It's a NEED for the reestablishment of emotional intimacy. As Owl told you, you'll find it well documented in books and articles about Infidelity, and you'll find it in the testimony of fellow members here at LS.

 

Now... you're right about one thing. This is a temporary response. Picture it as a re-visitation of the Infatuation Stage of your relationship. Just as in any other relationship, this stage will eventually subside. But, and it's a big "but"... this new Infatuation Stage allows you the chance to set new parameters of understanding and to build new relationship habits, which can sustain you both for the rest of your lives.

 

You and I have gone back and forth on these sexless marriage threads for a year or more now. And still... you doubt what I've told you even though you're seeing it play out before your OWN EYES. She didn't know, Scriv. She didn't REALLY understand. I've told you before, from personal experience, it feels like a miracle when a woman finally 'gets' it. It's a "lightbulb moment".

 

Heck, nothing you've told me that makes me believe she "gets it" now. So, I'm telling you... THIS is the time to help her see the correlation between sexual and emotional intimacy through YOUR eyes. THIS is the time to share the pain it's caused you while your were feeling shut out of her inner life and removed from her. THIS is the time when you explain what you've been feeling all this time.

 

You need to understand each other, bud. That's the ONLY way forward.