Affair revealed - obsessing still...

[pkn06002]

If an Ea/PA is so dramatically different, PKN. what gives you the "context" to address this particular poster's issues. Apparently, your affair involved sex and emotions. His did not.

If they are completely different, as you say to OWl, wouldn't your objection about folks that have not been through similar expieriences apply to your commenting on this guy's situation?

Anyway, I think it is apparent that even after a year, with a geographic move. this guy is still longing to be with this woman. His wife deserves to know this so she can make a decision as to how much additional time she wants to invest.

Has your wife been informed about your feelings and the continued contact? She is entitled to that. I feel really soeey for your wife having to endure this. If she does not know about your feelings and actions, you are being terribly unfair to her.

 

Reggie:

What gives me context (I feel) is that I can relate to this particular OP postings. I could've written his posts. My objections were not to "disqualify" people from posting but to expand the idea that EVERYONES posts are possibly valid. Because in general WS's posts are minimized and dismissed because we are the cheaters. But we sometimes have insight into some things that BS don't have in general, because we have been there.

 

make sense?

[taylor]

U9,

 

How do you feel about this possible separation from your wife?

 

I guess what I'm really asking you, U9, is:

 

If you take this work transfer do you see it as a marital separation as well? Does your wife?

 

And if you do see it as a marital separation, do you see it as the beginning of the end ( a gently ending where you both just drift apart) or as a way to step back, regroup and evaluate the marriage with the possible hope of returning to the marriage with a different perspective?

 

I know of a couple who had been having problems for about 2 years. Her mother fell ill and she travelled halfway across the country to assist in her care. The trips became more numerous and more lengthy. Finally she told her husband she needed to be closer to her family (mother, father, siblings) and wanted him and the children to move there. He started to look for jobs there, only half-heartedly.

 

In the end, she moved across country with the children. He stopped looking for jobs and stayed behind. Since then, they filed for divorce and he started dating.

 

In your case, will the job move be your ticket out of the marriage?

[Reggie]

I don't know why this marriage bit is so complicated for folks. If you choose your spouse, you promise to remain faithful.

Do Ws's think they are particularly prey to temptations that just about anyone walking the planet is not? Why do all this comparison shopping once you commit?

Once you are married, if something you consider better comes along, either divorce or pass it up. If you cheat, tell your spouse and expect the marriage to crumble in most cases. Take the consequences.

Seems like folks that fencesit go through hell and put others through it , too. What a bizzare choice to make.

[Sands_of_time]

U9....

 

You have had so much advice on this I'm not sure how you are processing all of it! Most of it seems dead-on, too, so I hope some of it eventually sinks in.

 

After reading your entire thread I'd like to stand next to you and walk and talk with you and listen to you. Then, at the end of our walk I'd punch you square in the nose. 5 or 6 times until you get a clue. Metaphorically, of course.

 

Man up brother. There is a fine line between wanting help and creating a drama world--which is what you are doing to yourself and your family.

 

Take control of yourself and pick a direction. Your wife/family or the chance at a new found love?

[jj33]

U9 basically you are staying with your wife beacuse she is the default option. Not that you dont care for her, not that she isnt your best friend etc etc

 

but she is not your first choice. If you are going back to your old job you may think you get involved again with OW. But I wouldnt count on it.

 

She is going through a divorce. Its quite possible that the last things she will want is (1) to get into an affair (even with you) and (2) to be responsible for breaking up someone else's marriage.

 

So that still leaves the ball in your court. This IS your decision unless your W leaves because you havent recommitted to her heart and soul.

 

I think subconsciously that may be what you want. You want your W to leave because then you are not the bad guy in terms of having left.

 

Or if OW gives you the green light while you are at your new job, then you might leave.

 

But its not fair to your W. She wants a husband that wants her, not someone who stays with her because hes afraid of going out in the world and not "getting the girl".

 

Your wife thought you had that girl - she thought it was her.

 

Clock is ticking my friend...

 

edited to add: Obviously your W doesnt want a divorce - but she also doesnt want a husband who wants someone else. So while you are praying for a sign from OW, she is praying for a sign that she has her husbnd back.

[Reggie]

Who treat his "best friend" like this? Makes zero sense to me. I could not imagine having a best friend that would stab me in the back like this. At least my XW hated me. I can wrap my brain around that.

[jj33]

Thats the thing Reggie at this point he thinks of her as a friend rather than a wife - your friend wouldnt care if you slept with someone else. Im not saying its logical it isnt but people feel the way they feel.

 

U9 it sounds very much like you dont have any romantic feelings for your wife. You dont want to hurt her. You dont want to think of yourself as someone who would hurt her. You didnt set out to hurt her. But you have.

 

That as you know all too well is the consequence of the affair. Youve hurt the one person you didnt want to hurt.

 

But staying and not being fully engaged in the marriage isnt the solution.

 

I think you processing the fact that you want to leave, but you dont know that it will be better on the other side.

 

I say this with all the best will in the world, it sounds like you want to leave but you are afraid the grass wont be greener. I totally understand that but yours is not the only life hanging in the balance, which leads us to what I said above...

 

and who knows your W could be saying stay stay this will pass we will work it out. But my guess is she was saying that or thinking that a year ago. But now one year later things may feel different to her. I dont know. She may feel its easier to stay married, financially family wise for your children etc etc especially if you are going to be working out of town. You may have lucked out. That may give you the space to figure out what you want.

[Heather1]

I think guys are naive in thinking friendship will follow. I've come to find out that this whole affair business is the most unnatural of all relationships. When you're single & flirt, etc. it all leads to the next level. This is just the road to hell w/ hardly anyway that's not painful to everyone involved to get out. That's speaking from a non-religious point of view, just my experience.

 

I just initiated NC for the 2nd time. It is SO painful, but sadly once you start a PA, it's only painful options. I just decided to go with me being in pain, and not 7 other people. Respect her NC & don't cross the line. She probably feels the same way I do. You're lucky you got caught....this is NOTHING compared to the pain if you continue.

[jj33]

?? what are you on about Heather? We arent talking about freindship between U9 and the OW. We are talking about his friendly feelings for his wife. READ THE THREAD

[Sands_of_time]

I know the OP said his wife is his best friend but I don't think that's the case if you look at his actions. You don't treat your best friend, or even a friend like that.

 

OP--you've taken your wife and your family for granted. It's easy to get into that "comfort" mode when you see someone everyday (you are not the only one--you are human for God's sake). But it's a mistake to forget why you married her in the first place.

 

No soup for you, OP.

[NewSunrise]

JJ is right on. He doesn't want to be seen as the "bad guy". He's already done the really bad deed.

 

As I replied earlier, he secretly wants the OW to make the decision for him. The separation is the only way he can get out of his marriage in a sort of "clean" way. He'll use the separation as the "we tried/I tried to work on the marriage" excuse in order to justify his end result.

 

The separation, in his mind, will send a HUGE message to the OW that the door is open for her to enter while he still is married. He knows that his wife still wants the marriage and he's taking advantage of her. The separation is his opportunity to find out if the other side is greener before he closes the gate behind him.

 

What a truly sad human being.

[Reggie]

I know the OP said his wife is his best friend but I don't think that's the case if you look at his actions. You don't treat your best friend, or even a friend like that.

 

OP--you've taken your wife and your family for granted. It's easy to get into that "comfort" mode when you see someone everyday (you are not the only one--you are human for God's sake). But it's a mistake to forget why you married her in the first place.

 

No soup for you, OP.

 

This is right on. Infidelity is abuse in its most severe form. No way is he treatng his wife like a friend.

This is really some cruel stuff, IMO. All this whining about feelings and such is pathetic.

[tami-chan]

Reggie:

What gives me context (I feel) is that I can relate to this particular OP postings. I could've written his posts. My objections were not to "disqualify" people from posting but to expand the idea that EVERYONES posts are possibly valid. Because in general WS's posts are minimized and dismissed because we are the cheaters. But we sometimes have insight into some things that BS don't have in general, because we have been there.

 

make sense?

 

pkn, INSIGHTS, good word-said with humbleness of heart. We can all learn from you. Sometimes we get so passionate about what we believe in, we think we know ALL the answers. Thank you, pkn!

[taylor]

As I replied earlier, he secretly wants the OW to make the decision for him. The separation is the only way he can get out of his marriage in a sort of "clean" way. He'll use the separation as the "we tried/I tried to work on the marriage" excuse in order to justify his end result.

 

I totally agree with you here, NewSunrise.

 

Neither U9 nor his wife want to be the "bad" guy.

 

But to their defense I will say it has to be awful hard to look each other in the eye and say, "This marriage isn't working. We aren't happy together. Let's end it and go our separate ways."

 

Yes, it's the mature and oftentimes the kindest thing to do, but it doesn't FEEL like it. It hurts to say those words. And it's scary.

 

So, instead, couples go years pretending everything is OK, or pretending the marriage will fix itself, or pretending they will get used to the way things are....all to avoid saying those words.

 

This is what the couple I mentioned earlier did. Here is the divorce explanation the husband gave: Well, she wanted to move to **** to be closer to her family...I tried to get a job there but couldn't find one comparable...and well, we really weren't getting along that great...so I decided not to move."

 

It was easier for them to divorce and blame the decision on a family illness and geographic separation, rather than say we divorced because we don't love each other anymore or because we don't want to try anymore.

 

This is why I wonder if U9 may actually be looking forward to the job move because it would be a way to gently end the marriage without looking like the bad guy. He can say, "We just drifted apart and it fizzled."

 

It also crossed my mind that U9 might also be looking forward to the job move because he may see it as a new found "freedom" in a sense...to get out from under the situation at home and do a little exploring.

 

Surely it has to have crossed his mind that if he separates geographically from his wife, he increases the risk that his already troubled marriage will not survive. It's hard to work on a marriage when you are miles apart and harder to maintain the emotional/physical connectedness.

 

No wonder his wife is not happy about the job move.

 

But I guess if this is what it's going to take for the marriage to end...for U9 to get off the fence, then this is what it will take.

[NewSunrise]

Surely it has to have crossed his mind that if he separates geographically from his wife, he increases the risk that his already troubled marriage will not survive. It's hard to work on a marriage when you are miles apart and harder to maintain the emotional/physical connectedness.

Oh you can bet this thought has crossed his mind.

 

He's already checked out of the marriage. If he didn't, the move would have never entered in his mind.

[Heather1]

oops...I hadn't realized this was so many pages!!!

 

OK then, what to say after so much drama?? It's time to sit down w/ your wife & find out what will make her happy. Staying w/ you & obviously being miserable, or going into the unknown & finding someone who will only think of her. Or even being on her own to figure out who she is after all this. Not the same situation, because my dad was never faithful, but my Mom was a lunatic for years before the divorce. Being a child of divorce, I can honestly say I was relieved when they finally did. My Mom was very sullen & sad for a few months, but I swear she's the happiest 73 year old I've ever seen & never remarried. So there's that, our human nature to find ourselves that your wife can't do now because you're thinking of the OW & she's thinking kids and marriage (BTW - your M was in trouble or this never would have happened). My only judgement of you is getting caught the first time, and then leaving up the facebook page. It makes me think you just want to get busted for an out & make her decide. Both of you decide.

 

So now to OW. I actually think she did an honorable thing by leaving her H w/ no other relationship involved. She cut you out so that her divorce would be between she & her H, without depending on another relationship to fall on. The way she handled it actually saved your family more pain than you think. If you would have been involved in every step, it would have been more of a nightmare for your family. Not surprising her M was in trouble before this ever happened too. I honestly don't think this stuff happens if your primary relationship is solid.

 

I can't tell, but it sounds like you moved back close to your W's family. That's good, because she'll have support.

 

This isn't the end of the world. What most likely will happen is you try another shot at a relationship that one kiss produced, and find it's not what you think either.

 

I'm sadly in a NC boat & get all the emotions involved. I'm trying to keep my head on straight, because I don't think I have a future w/ OM. I'm just trying to see if I still have one w/ my H, who knows too. I get what you're going through. There's no right answer, except right now to see exactly what it is your wife wants to do since you're back in contact. You should be honest with her & tell her you're going to stay in contact so she can decide.

 

Hope this helps.

[jj33]

OW may want him to divorce before they get invovled (maybe not)

 

And if he leaves and it doesnt work out, he will feel he has made the wrong choice as he does love his family, would just prefer to live happily ever after with OW.

 

Its a classic problem. Unfortunately there are no answers.

 

U9, if you dont act someone may act for you.

[NewSunrise]

OW may want him to divorce before they get invovled (maybe not)

 

And if he leaves and it doesnt work out, he will feel he has made the wrong choice as he does love his family, would just prefer to live happily ever after with OW.

 

Its a classic problem. Unfortunately there are no answers.

 

U9, if you dont act someone may act for you.

Beyond that, he and OW (if they hook up again) will have to contend with the notion of will either of them be able to be faithful to each other once the honeymood period fizzles. After all, they both cheated on their spouses. Honeymood period DO fizzle.

 

Reality stinks sometimes, doesn't it? But, we inevitably ALL must own up to the consequences of our choices or failing to make hard choices.

[jj33]

No they didnt actually cheat - it was one kiss. They cheated in their hearts but not their loins.

 

I dont actually believe that is the bigger issue - I would be more worried that they dont REALLY know what its like to be together outside of work. Work fills in a lot of gaps. I agree with you it has a huge likelihood of fizzling but for different reasons.

 

Anyway New Sunrise I think this has become more interesting to us than to him.

[u91746]

No, this is all interesting and helpful. Again, I came here looking for objectivity, b/c certainly after this all broke, didn't have that, and it's been a mess since then.

 

Things are still very much in the air, of course. There are reasons for moving away - things at work here are crap and kinda need to move away - but there is no job for my wife there, and she has one here. Excellent house, closer to her family (as pointed out) and more her size of town.

 

I think I will have to move regardless. I don't really *want* to go back to the old job, and frankly the fact that OW will be there, and divorced, complicates things all the more.

 

One thing I should have mentioned, and perhaps haven't mentioned enough, is how frequently I've wished I'd never met OW, and how frustrating it has made my life. I've talked about colour vs. black and white, but that speaks equally to how you see someone as a friend / colleague and when that barrier goes down, how you might have a hard time seeing them as just a friend or colleague again.

 

What I am taking away from this discussion most right now is my lack of decision-making and how I am willing to let forces act upon me rather than acting...I think there is accuracy in that assessment; I have relied upon a few friends to talk to about this, and even in IC I think I was waiting for someone to make these decisions for me.

 

Again, my W loves me, and I care for her deeply. I *know* deep down that my assessment of the OW is not realistic, and a lot of it is "animal magnetism"...I think we did connect in a way that frightened me. That spark doesn't necessarily last - someone mentioned the honeymoon phase - and what does is commitment and long term see it through, which I do really have with my wife.

 

This is not to placate any of you lurkers or board members, but I have decided to make my W my priority. It has taken a toll on me to think about this OW obsessively over so long. We have a solid reputation as a good couple, and a role model to other couples (believe it or not!) and many friends who are couples.

 

The timing is just attrocious...like the stars aligned...in that I had really and firmly decided to recommit to my W in buying her that diamond necklace, which she now wears, and the next day I learn of the OW's divorce.

 

And yes, I DO agree that things would have been worse had I known. She told me on the phone that I act impulsively without considering the consequences, which I certainly did with her!, but I also took to mean that I might have left my family and changed plans to not move away just to be with her, and I don't think there was an offer on the table. Certainly not in the middle of a divorce. And I don't believe there is one now. How horribly ironic that, now because of some work crap totally not of my doing, I am seriously considering returning to the workplace where this occurred, albeit in different units.

 

How does that sound?

[u91746]

Thanks Heather1 for a thoughtful reply. Just to be clear, the OW's husband had an affair himself and did, in her words, everything in his power to get kicked out of the house...and had thought about leaving years before...very odd, b/c I wouldn't have guessed in either his reaction to our fling or having known him a short while, but I honestly don't know how much our thing had an effect on his behaviour....speaking to OW that one time, it sounded like this was something a long time coming and was bound to happen.

 

What I find intriguing is that our situations are somewhat similar in that we both got married relatively young (early 20's) and have been married about the same length of time, each with children. As an aside, I wonder if marrying young increases or decreases the chances of infidelity?

[Heather1]

Shoot...I hate to say this, but in order to re-commit & connect you shouldn't make that move. If you want to split from your wife, make the move. Yes, it's inconvenient OW still works there, and if you hadn't been obsessing it wouldn't even be a problem. I'm all with you on the MLC stuff, my kids are almost grown & I'm looking towards part 2 with my H wondering if we're going to make it past the boys.

There's an element of conquest to men. It's kind of your mid-life challenge, and you've focused on this woman who didn't go the distance. Once she does, I hate to say this but you won't have the same feelings. Then you'll have two women in love with you & want your wife back, at the expense of crushing the OW who finally trusted you.

I know, been there, totally crushed. After a full blown affair, he did a HUGE "what have I done, I'm married?" turn around. I'm telling you, the being married is your in & your out. Affairs are the most unnatural relationship there is.

[jj33]

I dont know how similar your situations really are. Heathe your guy wasnt mentally checked out of the marriage in teh same way U9 was. Or it doesnt sound like it.

 

U9 you have had a year of obsessing over the OW. It doesnt sound to me like you are going to sleep with her and suddenly think what I am doing? YOuve had a year to think that and you havent.

 

I only think your relationship would fizzle if the reality with the OW didnt match your fantasy. And then it would be going back to your default. And that is if OW wants a relationship.

 

But from everything you have written your wife is a default. You dont sound remorseful and I dont mean that to be unkind. But you sound like if someone with a crystal ball would tell you that you would be happy with OW forever, youd file on Monday.

 

That in and of itself suggests to me that you should leave. You may love your wife in many ways but you dont love her as a woman. And if you dont leave for OW I can almost guarantee there will be someone else in the future.

[Heather1]

No easy answer here. If he's done w/ marriage, he's done. But the move will probably seal the deal so that's how it should be looked at.

 

Although it might not be the same, all this is riding on a kiss. After the final conquest, he might not feel the same way. Just something to think about is all, cuz that's not fair to anyone either. Since I'm on the other end of the obsessive guy chasing me, catching me, and backing way off I'm trying to save the OW heart.

 

If it's true love, she's the one, after one kiss then maybe he's just solid in the decision. Lot's of ?????

 

Figure out whether you want to leave your wife first. Don't justify the move, get back involved, and then pull the "married" card. Make that decision first, and go from there. Not a moral judgement, just your messing with lives & hearts & I'm sorry, it's equally painful to the OW as it would be to your wife if you don't decide. The problem is, the OW won't have support or an outlet. Think about that.

[jj33]

Thinking about this people give married people a lot more leeway. If 2 people were single they would NEVER put up with this are you sure what do you want? I know its different a marriage goes through phases you have to be in it for the long haul but

 

The OP gives the MP more leeway because they are married and have more to weigh.

 

The BS often gives more leeway because its a marraige and you dont want to throw that away if it can be savlaged.

 

And then it drifts like this.

 

Its not an easy decision, I am not discounting that U9. But it does seem like you are thinking only of yourself. If you really didnt want to throw everything away with your W, you would have come to that decision in a year.

 

Let her go. She is near her family now, she has a good job, you are going back to your old city, its a perfect time. Why drag things out. Its SO unfair to use your wife as a default -- except shes letting you.