Affair revealed - obsessing still...

[Beautiful Inside]

This is a bit complex, but probably not unusual.

 

I got into an emotional affair with a co-worker. We are both married and each have children. We became very good friends, met privately after flirting in a pub together with other co-workers, and confided feelings for each other that extended beyond friendship. We met in secret several times over the course of a month. I gave her small presents (candies) and cards, and a nice Valentine's gift. Lots of e-mails at work, flirting and checking in with her. She had self-esteem issues, and I felt like I was making her feel better.

 

We took things beyond friendship once after Valentine's, parked and made out. She told her friend I was an awesome kisser, and we were very, very happy. I was pretty caught up and didn't know where this was all going, but it was terribly exciting.

 

One of our co-workers phoned her husband and told him to look into me shortly after Valentine's. He did, and accessed her work e-mail - she had given him her password a long time ago - and printed everything off. He interrogated her first w/o disclosing the e-mails, and the next night, after she'd e-mailed me to say he knew and we'd shared some final thoughts, confronted her with everything.

 

He left but is back, and she's determined to make her marriage work. He came by my house here last week and showed my wife the e-mails. I'd told her most everything, but the nasty bits from the e-mails...I don't even remember what I wrote.

 

Anyhow, the affair is over, and we're all paying the marriage and personal counsellors our not-quite-divorce penalities. We haven't really spoken much, except that she's saying she needs to make her marriage work and I'm doing the same. The kids don't know; neither do the others at work. She has a confidante friend at work, and I have another, and they are keeping quiet.

 

I am feeling many things, not the least of which enormous guilt towards her husband, who had started to be a friend of mine, so the betrayal is double. I feel horrible guilt every time I see my wife and we cry often. It's been a full month since the rupture with her, but I still think of her often and wish we could be friends, but know that won't really be possible - or will it?

 

She's gone on a holiday with her husband - part of the fixing, I think - for a couple of weeks here and then I'm taking some time off and going away with my wife for a week. I've lost 15 pounds over this and I am trying to relieve stress through exercise, but I am continuing to think about her often.

 

I know we didn't sleep together, but there was real intimacy between us. She has quite readily gotten over the fling, but I have not so much.

 

So my questions are these:

 

(1) How do I stop obsessing about her?

(2) Do I apologize to her husband or just let it go?

(3) What kind of relationship - if any - can I expect to have with her once this storm blows over?

 

Thanks.

 

 

hmmmm i dont think you really can expect any kin of friendship after this, her husband will always hate you deeply and pitty you. you cant just make yourself stop thinking of her time will eventually become easier. how about focusing more on your wife and family?... doing more things with them....your wife must be so internally crushed and broken inside i can only imagine.....you need to love her so much right now you cant fix what has been done but you can try to make things a lot better. you dont need to apologize to her husband unless he approaches you one last time which i doubt he will....do you even feel at all bad about your wife....how is she taking all of this....

[jj33]

Beautiful you really need to read the whole thread things have moved on substantially since then.

[NewSunrise]

U9

 

What would you do if your wife tells you to leave and wants a divorce?

[blueintheface]

u91746 -It took a year, but I'm out of the fog of this relationship. Thank God for all the patience of friends who knew about it, my wife and the small circle aware of this transgression.

 

What happened to the above? So 1 step forward, 2 steps back. You initiated contact with OW again?

 

I read only parts of your story so maybe i'm missing something here .... did you divorce or are you going to put your wife through this again? I think you should tell your wife.

[u91746]

I know, thanks jj33 and others, that I should be focused on here or there but not in between, and I am trying, but I keep dissecting the conversation I had with the OW and I need to understand some things:

 

(1) Why did she not tell me for 6 months, and why was she miffed when I did find out and wanted to know from whom? I mean, we were friends, and we confided a lot in each other. She mentioned that she didn't have emotional reserves to cope with anyone else, and I kinda understand, but people don't always say what they mean, and is there more there to it? Why did she not tell me, or seem to have any intention to tell me? She said at one point it was because I am a bit impulsive and might make a decision without understanding the consequences (easy read: ditch the family for a prospect with her, which AT THE TIME? would have been nothing she was prepared to undertake...understandably....and isn't now?)

 

(2) One of her first questions was whether I had gotten a new job back where she works (and I used to work) as a promotion came up there. She had heard that I was in the running and wondered if I'd gotten it. I found out the day before that I had not. She wondered why I'd want to go back, and I said it was a promotion, and she said "promotions aren't everything", which is certainly true. What is the importance of this? Did she see an opportunity to get back together?

 

(3) She mentioned towards the end that she needed to move forward, and into the future. I read that as "you were a stepping stone in my past, and I want to leave you there." Hurts a bit, but likely the truth. But does she want to know that we have a future? Would she like for there to be something.

 

I know, jj33, I am asking that question that is obvious at this point, but I don't get it. She mentioned once in the conversation that I had things to work out where I am, and I just wonder if she's privately - out of respect, or being completely taxed emotionally or whatever - wishing I could be there to see whether a relationship could take hold. And won't say it. Or whether I'm just looking for something in the tea leaves.

 

And yeah, the answer is no, I haven't discussed this with my wife. It would be, as you all have pointed, yet another "dwelling on things" and way too hurtful for her. She does not deserve that.

 

Frankly speaking, I am right now thinking that this is the OW's issue and DESPITE ALL INSTINCTS TO THE CONTRARY (and they are potently strong) I will not be throwing away my family to try and rescue her. I really did in the first event. I risked a lot to show her that she was beautiful, appreciated and loved. She obviously needed that and might need that again here in spades. I will admit that as much as she might need saving, I desperately would be satisfied in being that person that rescues her, and fills her up completely, and shows her that not all men are callous, unfeeling *******s who take more than they give. More than I was certainly last fall, when she was going through this, I

 

I welcome your thoughts on any or all of this.

 

Thanks

[jj33]

1. Why didnt she tell you? I understand the emotional reserves issue and clearly she didnt want you to leave "for" each other., she didnt want to be responsible for you leaving your family without knowing what the future would hold (as there are no guarantees)?

 

Or is there more in the background that you dont know? That is a difficult one.

 

2. The promotion thing is odd. Are you still in the same geographic area or did you say you had moved?

 

If you are still in the same area then you working at the same company is actually a bad thing. You wouldnt want to both be divorcing and working together. If you didnt divorce, working together would only mean you would see each other but it doesnt help a new relationship between the two or you.

 

What do you mean by at this point I am thinking its the OWs issue and you wont b throwing everything away if you leave to rescue her? Has she indicated that she wants you to?

 

It seems fairly clear she doesnt want you to go through your divorces together. And that she is not willing to say that she would like to pursue a future with you if you were to divorce. If you were to ask her that directly she may indeed say that you were pressuring her. But how can you act based on tea leaves? Its a big gamble.

 

The idea that she wants you to sort yourself out suggests that she doesnt want to get into an A with you while you are married but only you know the context of the conversation.

 

My concern for you is that she doesnt want to have any discussion about how she feels about you or how you feel about her.

 

Others may say she is doing the right thing. But given the stance you are taking it may not be right for you.

 

But I will say one thing. Your decision to leave your marriage is yours. Not hers. If you are only leaving if she gives you a nod, then she will forever be responsible. If it doesnt work out for some reason, then you would look back and say I left for her what a mistake. I shouldnt have been so impulsive. We didnt have enough history to judge the situation.

 

In a way she is not the one who needs rescuing. It is you. You are the one who is depending on her to determine the course of your life. She is getting on with the divorce without your input.

 

Is it possible you WANT to be needed in that way. She isnt letting you rescue her.

 

I know if I were her I would NEVER want someone to leave "for me". I would want them to leave because it was the best thing for them. Not just because I wouldnt want that responsibility, but because she cant really know enough about your life and your marriage to tell you that you should leave and noone can guarantee the future.

 

Sorry my friend but the ball is back in your court. This is not a knight in shining armor rescuing the damsel situation. This is about the lone knight deciding whether to stay at the castle or go off into the distance to pursue his future.

 

It would not be unreasonable for her to say if you were single once you were both divorced she would want to pursue something and see what happened but she doesnt sound like she is even ready to go that far.

 

I have been on the opposite side of it with xMM grappling about what to do. I dont express an opinion other than to say that he needs to do what is best for him that he has a lot there and that I care for him enough to want the best for him even though it means not having any sort of personal relationship. I have never insisted that he leave, never suggested that he leave tho I know he would have liked that. He would have liked me to push for that so that he didnt have the world on his shoulders deciding whether to stay or go. The difference is he knew that if he left I would definitely have pursued a relationship with him. But he also knows that he is older, there are many unknowns, and that the day to day of life may be very much the same (but for the difference in the "connection" etc) with a lot of things lost in terms of family friends lifestyle etc (which is what you said about ending up in the same place).

 

As its been said, there are known unknowns and there are unknown unknowns. Loads of things you dont know about each other that might make a difference in a real relationship. So you need to make the decision based on what you do know.

 

Which means that you need to decide do you want to stay married to your wife?

 

OW is very wise. You cant leave for her. That is not her role. She is not the arbiter of your marriage.

 

The other thing is where did you get the rescuing thing? She has not leaned on you through ANY of this. If you are looking to be a knight in shining armor, you may be looking in the wrong place. Or it may be that you sense that although she is independent but be careful you are not in this together at this point. She is saying the opposite. You are each on your own paths.

 

I know that is not what you wanted to hear. But she has been clear you need to sort yourself out. If you sort yourself out and she doesnt want a relationship, or it fizzles out once you are both divorced, will you be unhappy?

 

You still have the issue of your marriage? How long is your wife going to be willing to be the default option? She deserves to be with someone who really wants to be with her. She may love you enough to believe that if this blows over, then you can rebuild what you have. But the longer you prevaricate, the more damage you do to your relationship with her. You are taking her for granted. If she is your best friend, i would be very very careful. She may not have an endless supply of patience for being second.

 

Unless of course you WANT your wife to end the marriage, then again the decision is taken out of your hands.

 

I understand your dilemma but I think you are being unfair to your wife. What if there is another OW in 5 years and you leave then. If your wife is so clearly not the choice, then leave. Maybe you and OW will get together, but if not you and your W will be free to find someone fully committed to her and you will be free to find someone you are fully committed to who is fully committed to you.

[u91746]

Lots of unanswered questions there, but a lot of insight that I desperately needed from an unbiaised and objective viewpoint.

 

Leave what? Duldrums in a 17 year-old marriage? Lack of passion? Wonderful kids and a genuinely wonderful wife, who really does love me and is trying her best?

 

I don't think I'm going to find better out there...but this person I knew, this person that came into my life through working closely together, this person who is now divorced stole my heart and I haven't gotten it back since. I have spent TOO MANY hours and too many days thinking of her, and it makes me a little more than annoyed that I've (a) moved away and (b) and undergone therapy and © spent too many hours crying and causing pain in my marriage and I can't rid myself of her.

 

You are right, maybe I am the person looking to be rescued...I hadn't considered that.

 

It's too much pressure to ask her these things, but I think I might know better from your answers here.

[jj33]

I hate to sound zenlike but the answers are within. Sometimes life isnt "fair".

 

Wouldnt you just love to refind that connection with your W? Wouldnt that make it all easier? No reason to leave and every reason to fully engage in your M?

 

What is it that you loved about working with OW? What is it that you had with her that is missing in the marriage? You dont KNOW it was passion in the physical sense because you werent sleeping together so you really dont know that to be true. Thats a real gamble in itself...

 

It could be the newness a new person who is unexplored. You havent been together for so long that you can anticipate each word, thought, opinion, touch etc etc.

 

I have been in it from the other side and could explain further if you want to send me a PM. Do you have PM rights?

[tami-chan]

This is going to be a simple and simplistic advise. END YOU MARRIAGE. Do not rely on your OW or your wife. BE ALONE.

 

The OW did not tell you about her impending divorce because she did not want you to be a factor in her life, nor does she want to be a factor in yours.

All the other "confusing statements" are non-statements--all just for "making conversation". She is not that vested into you or a future with you, not right now at least. End your marriage and set your wife free and yourself!

[blueintheface]

You're kind of clingy.

 

(1) Why did she not tell me for 6 months, and why was she miffed when I did find out and wanted to know from whom? I mean, we were friends, and we confided a lot in each other. Why did she not tell me, or seem to have any intention to tell me?

 

You WERE friends but you are not friends anymore so why would she tell you. She could partly blame you for the breakdown of her marriage too. Also this was a very vulnerable time for her. You seem like the type to swoop in for the attack and she would have been more susceptible for another affair which she obviously did not want.

 

(2) One of her first questions was whether I had gotten a new job back where she works (and I used to work) as a promotion came up there. What is the importance of this? Did she see an opportunity to get back together?

 

If i were her i would be thanking god you had not got it. In fact if i were your wife i would be thinking you were a jackass. Promotions aren't everything. Why would you put your marriage in jeopardy AGAIN? Does NC mean nothing? NC is for life - it doesn't have an expiry date.

 

 

 

This is like when girls overanalyze text messages. Does it really matter what OW does? DOes it matter what OW is going through? To you, the answer should be no because you have a wife and you are no longer friends.

 

 

You are still in a fog. It might not be affair fog. It's could be an "i love myself" fog. You have not truly changed. I guess it counts that you trying so i hope you make it. =P

[tami-chan]

You're kind of clingy.

 

 

uuuugggghhh...so right and so unattractive...c'mon move on already, huh?

[Owl]

It doesn't have to be "end your marriage"...but it does have to be "make up your darned mind and STICK with whatever your choice is, alread!!!!".

 

If you want to be married...then you need to stop letting yourself worry about OW, her marriage, her motivations, her family, her dog, the color of her wallpaper, or any other facet of her existance.

 

Get this...if you want to stay married...she's dead to you...now and forever. She doesn't exist in your life anymore...and can never do so again.

 

You're LETTING YOURSELF focus on her, and on this whole drama.

 

STOP.

 

Or...file for divorce.

 

The choice is yours to make. And it needs to be a "black and white" forever kind of decision. If you can't do that...see option two, and file for divorce.

 

If you want to remain married...then you need to commit yourself to that...body, heart, and mind. When you find yourself going down the "ow path" and thinking about her...STOP. Start taking some darned ownership of your own thoughts, actions, etc... You're not a child...there is no "I couldn't help it" thing...this is all a CHOICE. You're a responsible adult, responsible for your CHOICES here. Time to start demonstrating that.

 

Sorry if this is harsh to you...but I seriously think you need a wake up call.

[pkn06002]

I so love the BS mentality of just grow up and move on. See this is the point where BS comments mean nothing because you have no context under which to relate to this OP. You have to of gone through this to even come close to understanding where his thinking is at.

 

He has mentally checked out of his marriage and is TRYING to do the right thing and "fix" things. But guess what it is broken, but because of obligations to family, society blah blah blah he stays. He is now in the traditional (really traditional) marriage where it is for family and finances not this "magic" 20th century 12 year old girls dream of marriage that most Westerners want. Where you have passion, intimacy, best friendship blah blah blah all rolled up in your spouse. That dream marriage marriage is the exception to the rule, which is what makes it special when it happens.

 

OP you have simple choices, that both WS's and BS's have given you.

 

1) Divorce become a part-time parent and chase the dream.

 

2) Suck it up and do the best you can. If your wife does not like it she can make her own decision to divorce you.

 

Two simple choices that's it. I understand the difficulty in those choices because that is where I am at as well. Want the dream but "real life" and "real love" gets in the way and makes life suck.

[NewSunrise]

YOU DON'T DESERVE YOUR WIFE!!!!

 

All that obssessive energy you're investing over the OW is energy taken away in investing on your wife, marriage and family.

 

What are you looking for? More reasons to obsess? Looking for a poster who will give you the "right" answer to pursue your fantasy?

 

JJ hit it on the nail. It's YOU who need rescuing.

 

So after plotting another obssessive thoughts and replies of "why did she, what did she mean by it; why didn't she tell me....after all we were friends..." crap, look behind you behind the sidelines. You've got ONE foot emotionally out the door.

 

So decide which side you want to plant the other foot before your wife decides it for you!

[jwi71]

I so love the BS mentality of just grow up and move on.

 

And your suggestions below are essentially the same. Really pkn, stop discounting the BS perspective because we "can't understand the depth of your pain". Its simplistic, naive and no where near the truth.

 

See this is the point where BS comments mean nothing because you have no context under which to relate to this OP. You have to of gone through this to even come close to understanding where his thinking is at.

 

I have plenty of context. I have been dumped and dumped. I have loved and lost. I have known unrequited love. We ALL go through loss of relationships...what more context do I need? Have I EVER betrayed anyone..no...in that sense, I have NO experience. Something I am proud of.

 

He has mentally checked out of his marriage and is TRYING to do the right thing and "fix" things. But guess what it is broken, but because of obligations to family, society blah blah blah he stays. He is now in the traditional (really traditional) marriage where it is for family and finances not this "magic" 20th century 12 year old girls dream of marriage that most Westerners want.

 

And that's his choice. He CHOOSE to stay for all those societal reasons you rave against. Now he has to man up, suck it up, stop whining and live the life he CHOOSE. So do you. Make your choice and stop whining about it. Basically...grow up and move on.

 

There is NO other option...

 

Where you have passion, intimacy, best friendship blah blah blah all rolled up in your spouse. That dream marriage marriage is the exception to the rule, which is what makes it special when it happens

 

You're projecting.

 

OP you have simple choices, that both WS's and BS's have given you.

 

1) Divorce become a part-time parent and chase the dream.

 

2) Suck it up and do the best you can. If your wife does not like it she can make her own decision to divorce you.

 

100% agree. Grow up and make a choice. Once having made your choice, STOP whining and move on.

 

The alternative is this limbo. Or even worse, second guessing yourself no matter the choice! Always focusing on what you DON'T have instead of what you do have. No way to live. Make a decision with all its ups and downs and move on.

[Owl]

I so love the BS mentality of just grow up and move on. See this is the point where BS comments mean nothing because you have no context under which to relate to this OP. You have to of gone through this to even come close to understanding where his thinking is at.

 

That's ok...we love the WS's sense of ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME just as much.

 

No one says that he's wrong for feeling what he's feeling...that's where YOU are making the mistake.

 

No...what we're telling him is that if he wants to change...he needs to do something to CREATE the change.

 

You confuse yourself thinking that we expect his feelings to go away in a moment. This isn't true. We know that.

 

But what those of us who have recovered a marriage can tell you is that they only way to get to that point is to change your actions...INTENTIONALLY change what you're doing, so that eventually you CAN get to the point where your feelings change.

 

As long as he LETS himself focus on OW...he's going to be mired in his obsession with her.

 

Take it from another angle.

 

Nearly every BS goes through an obsession as well. The obsession over the affair itself. And the obsession of the OW/OM, and the possibility of continued contact behind the BS's back.

 

And the BS has to INTENTIONALLY redirect their own thinking to get over this same obsession. Everytime I started catching myself focusing on the affair, on the whole situation...I had to do that same "change the channel" thing in my mind.

 

It's what helped me "get over" that situation, and forgive my wife and focus on truly rebuilding and fixing our marriage.

 

See...there's this silly belief that ACTIONS follow EMOTIONS.

 

That's garbage...and it's the biggest "copout" that most WS's tend to take. "I couldn't help myself".

 

The reality is...EMOTIONS FOLLOW ACTIONS. The act of sharing your feelings/thoughts/dreams LED you into falling in love with your affair partner. The emotions followed the action. That's why it's not a "mistake", but a CHOICE.

 

And it works the other way to recover as well...if you change your actions first...your emotions will follow.

 

I saw it in my wife, I've seen it in numerous other circumstances as well.

 

Hope this clears your confusion up a little, PKN.

[pkn06002]

 

100% agree. Grow up and make a choice. Once having made your choice, STOP whining and move on.

 

The alternative is this limbo. Or even worse, second guessing yourself no matter the choice! Always focusing on what you DON'T have instead of what you do have. No way to live. Make a decision with all its ups and downs and move on.

 

See now this I can agree with. All except the "Grow up" statement because that is a concept that really means nothing, that statement is really nothing but an insult.

 

Projecting really??? Oh I project like everyone else on this site does. I project no more nor less than everyone else on this site. I just happen to do it from the unpopular point of view. We are all shaped by our life experiences. Which in turn shape our advice and points of view.

 

Yes I am sure everyone here has been dumped etc... but you know what an affair seems to have a different level of attachment to it, for some reason. The only thing is seems to compare with is first love, so sorry if I feel BS's don't get it. Because you don't, sorry that is the truth. Until you make the journey(one I don't suggest) you will not understand the whole thought process, since it is like NOTHING you have ever gone through.

[taylor]

I will say that we, that is my wife and I, have been working at this, and we understand much better how we ended up here. I am a workaholic and she was filling in a lot of gaps for me while I was busy chasing my career and thinking all that stuff was more important than my family. She learned to make things run at home, and then I didn't feel needed at home. We grew apart. Don't get me wrong, I'm involved at home, and contribute more than most husbands, but she became quite independent.

 

U9,

 

I have followed your story from the beginning mainly because I see some resemblances between your affair scenario and mine. We also have similar timelines, as my emotional affair ended last March.

 

A question for you? Are you still in individual counseling? Are you and your wife still in MC?

 

Marital recovery is like a dance. It's two steps forward and one step back on a good day. In your case here, you have taken a huge leap back by contacting the OW. And I am sure by now you realize the progress you thought you had made was purely superficial in many respects. I am sure you hate admitting that you have truly not moved on. And it's been a year. This is why I wonder if you are still in counseling..or did that go by the wayside?

 

There is a dynamic in your affair that I can relate to and would like to address. It is something that was discussed extensively in my own IC and in MC. It's the whole "knight in shining armor" phenomenon.

 

I experienced this same "knight in shining armor" phenomenon, but in reverse. It was I who came to the OM's rescue. I am a sucker for the underdog. I quickly empathize with others and take their problems as my own and in doing so I attach to other people very quickly and easily. With the OM, I let my heart get involved.

 

The part I bolded in your statement above speaks volumes and is probably the reason why you took on the role of the "knight in shining armor." You have a need to be needed...a need for someone to depend on you profoundly...a desire to have an impact on someone's life..because in doing so, you feel good about yourself. You feel valuable and important if you can come to someone else's rescue and they appreciate you for it.

 

I am the exact same way. I even told the OM at the end that I felt like my husband didn't need me anymore..that I no longer mattered to him. I also told the OM how happy he made me feel when he told me how much I impacted his life.

 

Before my EA, my husband and I had grown apart for reasons similar to yours. My husband is a workaholic. I focused on my children and as a caregiver to an ailing parent. We were both so consumed with independent lives that we made for ourselves that we disconnected emotionally. We both felt empty and lonely.

 

Like you and your OW, my OM and I came together at a time when we were both very vulnerable. We each served a purpose to the other at a particular point in time.

 

It seems to me you have not dealt effectively with your need to feel needed. At least not within the confines of your marriage.

 

But your OW appears to not need your rescuing anymore. She is stronger now...not quite as vulnerable. She has managed to file for divorce on her own and seems to be perfectly capable of handling and coping with all that that process entails. She wants to do it on her own. She is not looking to you for help. Your OW knows you would come running if she yelled "help." She is deliberately not doing that because she does not want you to.

 

I would guess your OW no longer needs you like she did when she was in a vulnerable state. I know you don't want to here this.

 

But, unlike your OW, you are still in a very vulnerable state. You have not moved passed it.

 

If you are still in IC, please address this with your counselor. And if you aren't in IC, please make an appointment. As long as you remain vulnerable and have not found solutions within yourself and within your marriage, you will most likely seek solutions again outside your marriage.

 

Your wife would be utterly devastated to know you still long for the OW after all this time.

[whichwayisup]

Your wife would be utterly devastated to know you still long for the OW after all this time.

 

I agree 100%. And whatever feelings you're trying to get back for your wife, whatever efforts you're trying to put into your marriage is ALL a waste of time and energy as long as you're still pining for the OW and allowing yourself to miss/love/want her, wonder what she's doing etc..

 

Bottomline - Crap or get off the pot. Make a decision on what you want - Wife or OW, and stick to it. To waiver back and forth is just making everything worse and is keeping you in the mindset of fantasy/affairyland.

[pkn06002]

That's ok...we love the WS's sense of ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME just as much.

 

No one says that he's wrong for feeling what he's feeling...that's where YOU are making the mistake.

 

No...what we're telling him is that if he wants to change...he needs to do something to CREATE the change.

 

You confuse yourself thinking that we expect his feelings to go away in a moment. This isn't true. We know that.

 

But what those of us who have recovered a marriage can tell you is that they only way to get to that point is to change your actions...INTENTIONALLY change what you're doing, so that eventually you CAN get to the point where your feelings change.

 

As long as he LETS himself focus on OW...he's going to be mired in his obsession with her.

 

Take it from another angle.

 

Nearly every BS goes through an obsession as well. The obsession over the affair itself. And the obsession of the OW/OM, and the possibility of continued contact behind the BS's back.

 

And the BS has to INTENTIONALLY redirect their own thinking to get over this same obsession. Everytime I started catching myself focusing on the affair, on the whole situation...I had to do that same "change the channel" thing in my mind.

 

It's what helped me "get over" that situation, and forgive my wife and focus on truly rebuilding and fixing our marriage.

 

See...there's this silly belief that ACTIONS follow EMOTIONS.

 

That's garbage...and it's the biggest "copout" that most WS's tend to take. "I couldn't help myself".

 

The reality is...EMOTIONS FOLLOW ACTIONS. The act of sharing your feelings/thoughts/dreams LED you into falling in love with your affair partner. The emotions followed the action. That's why it's not a "mistake", but a CHOICE.

 

And it works the other way to recover as well...if you change your actions first...your emotions will follow.

 

I saw it in my wife, I've seen it in numerous other circumstances as well.

 

Hope this clears your confusion up a little, PKN.

 

Owl,

Confusion?? No sorry different opinion on the subject. But I will say you do seem to want to make this about me. Lets stay focused on a discussion that can help the OP OK?

 

I will say there is a very definite reason for the Me Me Me, because by the time you cheat that is your thinking. Your right there is none of this "mistake" or "it just happened" I will totally agree. It is an active selfish choice, but it is a choice based on a lot of baggage up to that point. Not an excuse the the plan fact. It takes a LOT to move back out of that point of view.

 

Owl I read that YOU (and a few others) know that his feelings cannot change overnight. Yes you try to constructively help, others not so much. I always get the feeling they think feelings can just be switched on/off. Which is not the case especially if a year out like the OP is saying those feelings are still there.

 

Obsessing about the affair and actually being in one and moving on are two TOTALLY different things. One does not relate to another, I would never tell a BS how to get past an affair, I have no context on how to. But BS seem to feel they can go the other way. Yes the general concept of NC, MC, IC are all GREAT but the "grow up", "think of your wife" etc.... Those mean little to a WS that has just started the journey let alone someone like the OP that is still caught up in the "what if's". This OP needs reasons to STAY with is wife and family, other than the idea of "look at the pain you have caused your wife." He needs POSITIVE reasons for keeping his family together and the BENEFITS of why it is better to stay than go.

 

I will totally disagree with the emotions follow actions, because I have had the direct opposite experience as you have (I have seen others express the same thing). The problem is you have to WANT to do those actions. Oh which means what???? Oh yes that there is a shred of those emotions to build on. Because the "fake it until you make it" only works if you WANT to do those actions in the first place. In your case (and others) you both WANTED to make it work, for others that is not the case. No amount of 2x4's or tough love will change that fact.

 

In the case of this OP is sounds like he WANTS to be out the door, but for other reasons he stays. I will agree he needs to make a choice forget the dream of the OW and move on with what he's got, doing the best he can. Or divorce chase the dream.

 

OP I will take some of my own advice and give you reason to stay. Do you and your wife fight openly? Do you get along well? If so then you are a "low conflict marriage" and as such a divorce can cause your children a lot of grief. Do reading on the subject and that may become your motivation for staying and forgetting the OW. Because you helped make those kids and it is your responsibility to make them have a good life.

 

So who next wants to give this OP POSITIVE reasons to work on the marriage. Instead of the normal sniping and insults that is the norm here?

[taylor]

The reality is...EMOTIONS FOLLOW ACTIONS. The act of sharing your feelings/thoughts/dreams LED you into falling in love with your affair partner. The emotions followed the action. ....if you change your actions first...your emotions will follow.

 

I agree with this 100 percent, OWL. But when you first proposed this notion I was very skeptical. I couldn't understand how you could act a certain way if you didn't first have the emotion to motivate you to act that way.

 

I recall wondering, How can I act to make my husband happy if I have no desire (feeling) to make him happy? Wouldn't I just be going thru the motions...faking it? It just didn't seem normal or real."

 

But I did it anyways. I went thru the motions because I have a desire to save my marriage, not necessarily because I had a desire to make my husband happy. But I realized that by doing the little acts of kindness..by loving my husband thru my actions, that the feeling...the desire..to make him happy returned. Granted it didn't happen over night. It took months. And I wasn't even convinced it would happen. It was a huge leap of faith.

 

And now, what appeared to be such an awkward, uncomfortable, hypocritical thing to do, just comes naturally now.

 

And to add one other point...

 

BS'ers often tell WSs to just put the OW/OM out of their mind..just stop thinking about them. Of course this is the solution. BUT, it is much easier said than done. It takes great willpower. The desire to hold on is often greater than the desire to let go. A WS has to reach a point where the shift in desire changes. And the best way for that to happen is NC, IMO. It also helps to have a strong motivation to recover the marriage, in spite of feelings for the OW/OM.

[pkn06002]

I agree with this 100 percent, OWL. But when you first proposed this notion I was very skeptical. I couldn't understand how you could act a certain way if you didn't first have the emotion to motivate you to act that way.

 

I recall wondering, How can I act to make my husband happy if I have no desire (feeling) to make him happy? Wouldn't I just be going thru the motions...faking it? It just didn't seem normal or real."

 

But I did it anyways. I went thru the motions because I have a desire to save my marriage, not necessarily because I had a desire to make my husband happy. But I realized that by doing the little acts of kindness..by loving my husband thru my actions, that the feeling...the desire..to make him happy returned. Granted it didn't happen over night. It took months. And I wasn't even convinced it would happen. It was a huge leap of faith.

 

And now, what appeared to be such an awkward, uncomfortable, hypocritical thing to do, just comes naturally now.

 

And to add one other point...

 

BS'ers often tell WSs to just put the OW/OM out of their mind..just stop thinking about them. Of course this is the solution. BUT, it is much easier said than done. It takes great willpower. The desire to hold on is often greater than the desire to let go. A WS has to reach a point where the shift in desire changes. And the best way for that to happen is NC, IMO. It also helps to have a strong motivation to recover the marriage, in spite of feelings for the OW/OM.

 

Taylor,

couple of things:

 

1) I really enjoy your posts they do hit (for me) the thinking of the WS to a tee. You do it in a very constructive reasoning way. Your posts have helped me move from stage to stage in my journey. I want to say thanks.

 

 

2) With your last statement you made my point why the "fake it until you make it" does not work all by itself. You had the DESIRE to save your marriage you in the first place you had something to start from. That is why I am suggesting we give this OP reasons for WANTING to stay and to put the effort in. He is searching for a reason to go or stay. Sounds like he is very much leaning towards going since the OW is getting a divorce.

[2sure]

This is a copy of my post to you back in October of 2008. Sadly, any progress you recenly claimed to make was only due to OW's unavailability. She still doesnt want you, is still rejecting you. I am heartbroken for your unknowing wife.

Oct 2008

I've been following this thread and havent replied previously because I felt I had nothing positive to add. My husband cheated on me, it wasnt emotional, which I think I have found easier to get past. Your A was very emotional - for me that would be much more difficult.

 

It also sounds as though your emotions were much stronger than OW's.

To be the betrayed wife of an emotional affair and to know that the OW has moved on but that her spouse really hasnt - would be not only hurtful but degrading. You may not think she realizes how much you have not moved on - but her instincts will tell her. For me, your attachment to this woman, which continues inspite of her angry rejections, puts you in a pathetic light. I understand you love her, and that unrequited love is by nature pathetic - and you are trying to heal. But honestly, to see my spouse lovestruck with another woman who doesnt want him would make him seem so ....small and needy.

 

Like I said, I know what I am saying is not positive. And here is some more. Your own feelings are such a priority to you that on more than one occassion you have made the OW uncomfortable while she is trying to put the A behind her. Your own feelings are so important to you that in asking how to repair your marriage - you ask not what you can do for your wife - but what you can do for yourself.

 

You sound empathetic, you sound sensitive, you sound insightful. At the same time, you cant seem to get past the fact that what you feel is not the OW's or your wife's responsibility. You need to stop putting yourself first.

[taylor]

I will totally disagree with the emotions follow actions, because I have had the direct opposite experience as you have (I have seen others express the same thing). The problem is you have to WANT to do those actions. Oh which means what???? Oh yes that there is a shred of those emotions to build on. Because the "fake it until you make it" only works if you WANT to do those actions in the first place. In your case (and others) you both WANTED to make it work, for others that is not the case. No amount of 2x4's or tough love will change that fact.

 

PKN, our posts on this subject crossed. (lol)

 

I researched this extensively as I was desperate to figure out how to get the desire back for my husband.

 

I will admit I was motivated to recover the marriage even though feelings for the OM lingered. I still longed for him but at the same time wanted to recommit to my marriage. This sounds contradictory but it is not. Recommitment was a choice. The longing for the OM was a feeling. I made a choice in spite of the feeling, and then set out to diminish the feeling.

I also made the choice in spite of a lack of feeling for my husband, and set out to regain those feelings that I had lost.

 

In my research I found that people fall in love by DOING hundreds of small loving acts for another person they are attracted to. It's in the GIVING..in the investment..that makes you attach to another person. The more you focus on giving to that person, the more you invest in that person, the more valuable that person becomes to you.

 

I have often said on this forum that I became more attached to the OM than he did to me...that's because I was the one giving..he was the one taking. I was the one doing for him, not the other way around.

 

This is also how parents form strong bonds to their children...by doing for them...meeting their needs...even at 3 a.m. when you don't feel like getting up to get that bottle for the baby or you don't feel like waiting up for that rebellious teenager to get home.

 

So it is the same way with our spouses. We choose to love them even when we don't feel like it, even when we aren't motivated. And the more we do, the more we want to do. Believe me, I did not understand this concept at all and I argued about it. Then I broke down and practiced it, even though I didn't feel like it. But it does work.

 

Again, it helps tremendously to make the decision to recommit to the marriage so when times come when you don't FEEL like being LOVING to your partner, you do it anyways because you KNOW you made the decision to. And over time, the desire does return.

 

This OP needs to recommit to the marriage or leave it. He and his wife will hang in limbo until he does.

 

 

 

OP I will take some of my own advice and give you reason to stay. Do you and your wife fight openly? Do you get along well? If so then you are a "low conflict marriage" and as such a divorce can cause your children a lot of grief. Do reading on the subject and that may become your motivation for staying and forgetting the OW. Because you helped make those kids and it is your responsibility to make them have a good life.

 

Staying for the sake of the kids is the reason many couples stay together in otherwise loveless marriages. But it is a very personal choice and one that not everyone will agree to make.

 

IMO, the only reason to work on a marriage is because you still see value in it.

[pkn06002]

PKN, our posts on this subject crossed. (lol)

 

I researched this extensively as I was desperate to figure out how to get the desire back for my husband.

 

I will admit I was motivated to recover the marriage even though feelings for the OM lingered. I still longed for him but at the same time wanted to recommit to my marriage. This sounds contradictory but it is not. Recommitment was a choice. The longing for the OM was a feeling. I made a choice in spite of the feeling, and then set out to diminish the feeling.

I also made the choice in spite of a lack of feeling for my husband, and set out to regain those feelings that I had lost.

 

In my research I found that people fall in love by DOING hundreds of small loving acts for another person they are attracted to. It's in the GIVING..in the investment..that makes you attach to another person. The more you focus on giving to that person, the more you invest in that person, the more valuable that person becomes to you.

 

I have often said on this forum that I became more attached to the OM than he did to me...that's because I was the one giving..he was the one taking. I was the one doing for him, not the other way around.

 

This is also how parents form strong bonds to their children...by doing for them...meeting their needs...even at 3 a.m. when you don't feel like getting up to get that bottle for the baby or you don't feel like waiting up for that rebellious teenager to get home.

 

So it is the same way with our spouses. We choose to love them even when we don't feel like it, even when we aren't motivated. And the more we do, the more we want to do. Believe me, I did not understand this concept at all and I argued about it. Then I broke down and practiced it, even though I didn't feel like it. But it does work.

 

Again, it helps tremendously to make the decision to recommit to the marriage so when times come when you don't FEEL like being LOVING to your partner, you do it anyways because you KNOW you made the decision to. And over time, the desire does return.

 

This OP needs to recommit to the marriage or leave it. He and his wife will hang in limbo until he does.

 

I contend you had a base for even starting your little acts. You even stated above you WANTED that desire for you husband back. Here is a question for you. Why????

 

See I am skeptical of this because I tried it. Did not work for me, made the wife happy and made her feel everything was OK. But it was/is not in my head. No amount of giving changed that, FYI I still do it to make her happy. Does little to nothing for me, so I am skeptical of the blanket statement that this works.

 

The "fake it until you make it" is totally valid, if you have a base to start from.

Along with true motivation to save things. You can be married without "love" and still have a "loving" marriage.

 

IMO, the only reason to work on a marriage is because you still see value in it.

 

You know what this is the BEST reason you could ever give someone for staying and working things out, to the best of their abilities.

 

So OP do you see any value in staying in your marriage instead of chasing the OW??