Melvll Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 I think your concentration should stay on your wife and children. Have you ever talked about the sex Issues to your wife? This is a real call for disaster and could hurt everyone. I dont think you could be a peace knowing this women wants you.. I put myself into your wifes situation... what would you do if you found out she had intrest or was seeing someone eles?
norajane Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 Oh yes. I think I wrote about this to some degree in an earlier post. It is a source of frustration for me because she kind of shells up whenever I want to talk about it. She doesn't like talking about our sex life in detail. I know there is a lot to talk about and I've suggested therapy and she's luke warm on it. I feel like I'm in a difficult place. Try harder. This is your marriage at stake, and your children's lives. You aren't single, and your life isn't about determining whether women are attracted to you. Your life is about the woman you made a lifetime commitment to, and the children you created together. THEY and their well-being come first. Try harder. This isn't just about sex. Many times, when a woman isn't into sex anymore, it's because she is unhappy about other things in the relationship having nothing to do with sex. Instead of talking to her about why sex sucks between you, try talking to her about how she feels about being a mom to three small children. Maybe she feels like she's lost touch with the WOMAN she is because she has to be a MOTHER all the time. Maybe she is tired and worn out, and maybe she would appreciate some help at home with a nanny/housekeeper. Try harder. Try talking to her about doing romantic things together, maybe leaving the kids with the grandparents for a week and taking a vacation alone, or just a weekend away so the two of you can re-connect. Get a babysitter for the evening and the two of you go out to dinner and for drinks, instead of going out separately with your friends. You two have lost your spark because you no longer interact as a romantic couple, like when you were dating. Flirt with your wife, and tell her how beautiful and sexy she is to you. Send her sexy little texts during the day telling her you were thinking about her...naked. SEDUCE your wife. Turn on the charm for your WIFE. Make your wife feel as sexy as you want this other woman to make you fell. Try harder. Because you are well on your way to growing distant and detached, and you'll next be talking about how you just couldn't help starting an affair because OW made you feel like a sexy man and your wife doesn't. Try harder.
Author ItCanBeTough Posted March 25, 2008 Author Posted March 25, 2008 A busy day for me, I read all your posts and I'm unable to answer all of them individually, but I've had some time in between studying genetic abnormalities to think about this. This may seem cheesy, but I want to thank the recent posts from WhichWayIsUp (everything you said is right-on), jmargel (especially as it is a breath of fresh air reading a man's opinion on this), BlueEyedGirl (giving a possible perspective of OW, which does help me even though most women on this board don't seem to think that), norjane's final post, and other pithy comments. I received way more posts (> 100) than I expected, most great, some useless. I came here to get some opinions about WHY I'm feeling this way and it's much clearer. There were a few posts about "ego stroking" and, like magic, there was an article today in Yahoo! Health writing how that (among four other factors) ego stroking is one precipitating event for a man cheating. Its funny (sarcastically to me, at least) that I know what has to be done and how bad the consequences can be. I need not associate with her on anywhere near the level that I have done. That much has been pounded into me on this thread. It has also been pounded into me how bad this can be if the tryst goes forward as fantasized. This pounding was probably more severe. This week I'm alone while the family is vacationing in Hawaii, OW is 2000 miles away on Spring Break, and I'm holing myself up in the library for some good me time for studying. I think this is a good opportunity for me to reset my mind. If you are interested, I'll come back in one month and post on how things have changed. Lastly, norjane your last post was wonderful, it really was. There are many things that we both can do to make our lives better. I think we have a good marriage but it's been strained in recent years due to work and child commitments of which we can't get out of (however I didn't communicate that clearly based on some of the flame throwing responses I've gotten.)
TechDude Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 This week I'm alone while the family is vacationing in Hawaii, OW is 2000 miles away on Spring Break, and I'm holing myself up in the library for some good me time for studying. I think this is a good opportunity for me to reset my mind. Sounds an excellent idea. Sorry if I was heavy earlier regarding the things you are filling your mind with. I do believe what you choose to fill your mind with has a large bearing on your character and your actions. It is very difficult to choose not to think about something (or someone). The best way to avoid thinking about something is to choose to spend you time thinking about something else. So, while you are resetting your mind, spend some time planning some specific things you are going to do with your wife when she returns. This will help direct your focus back to your wife and some practical actions will help reinforce it. If you are interested, I'll come back in one month and post on how things have changed.That would be great. I think we have a good marriage but it's been strained in recent years due to work and child commitments of which we can't get out of (however I didn't communicate that clearly based on some of the flame throwing responses I've gotten.)It would be a rare marriage that does not experience this sort of strain from time to time. The difference is whether we dig deeper to make it work or look elsewhere (and I know that choice is much more difficult than it sounds). I hope this turns out to be a real turning point for you. When (not "if" - I'm sure you will) you have worked through this, your marriage will be the stronger for it. I wish you all the best for the future.
sally4sara Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 The OW made friends with a MM with children because she was curious to see how much attention she could get out of him. He fed her ego a bit by exhibiting interest. Going out drinking with a younger woman while the wife is out of town is questionable behavior for a MM. While out drinking, OW goes on about her sex life for three hours. She did this to: Bring up sex as a topic See if it would elicit a response Let him know she is capable of no-strings sex They are both feeding each other's immature need for validation of their physical appeal. Further disclosure of their curiosities will just add fuel to the fire and make the curiosity grow. "How much ego food CAN I get?" It will likely end them up in bed. OP, if you've been up front with your wife about EVERYTHING, why are you so grateful for this anonymous discussion board? I advise being really up front about all this. It might make your wife wake up and address the issues of your sex life. By down playing your lust and how far you wish to take it, you give her the sense that this is benign, you are satisfied in your marriage - satisfied enough to not be effected by any interest paid you by OW. I think all you did by being your version of "up front" is make her think you are more trust worthy than you are. She might assume that if it was really something troublesome, you wouldn't share it so freely. It will not get your wife to realize you are not happy about your sex life despite all the other good aspects of your marriage and it will not motivate her to save your butt from slipping further.
Author ItCanBeTough Posted March 25, 2008 Author Posted March 25, 2008 So, while you are resetting your mind, spend some time planning some specific things you are going to do with your wife when she returns. This will help direct your focus back to your wife and some practical actions will help reinforce it. Yes, yes! I forgot to mention that when the W gets back from vacation I will be giving her her birthday present, as she was away for it. Once again I'm always clueless as to what to get her. Well, this time we talked about her getting a new pair of pajamas, some cute sexy pajamas but not this lingerie stuff which is impractical for everyday use. That is something I can handle. But I want to do something else too, something that I solely thought of. I don't want to do jewelry because I always have nightmares that she will say "oh....this is pretty." This will require a lot of thought, but I guess that's the point, isn't it?
jmargel Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 If you don't have any pets, get her a persian kitten or a small lap dog. At least those are the type of gifts my wife would want. She bought me my second german shepherd 3 years ago. That was the best xmas present I have ever received. It's a gift that doesn't stop giving.
norajane Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 If you don't have any pets, get her a persian kitten or a small lap dog. At least those are the type of gifts my wife would want. She bought me my second german shepherd 3 years ago. That was the best xmas present I have ever received. It's a gift that doesn't stop giving. A pet is not something I'd recommend for someone who may already be stressed out in taking care of a household and 3 young children.
Starla Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 Yes, yes! I forgot to mention that when the W gets back from vacation I will be giving her her birthday present, as she was away for it. Once again I'm always clueless as to what to get her. Well, this time we talked about her getting a new pair of pajamas, some cute sexy pajamas but not this lingerie stuff which is impractical for everyday use. That is something I can handle. But I want to do something else too, something that I solely thought of. I don't want to do jewelry because I always have nightmares that she will say "oh....this is pretty." This will require a lot of thought, but I guess that's the point, isn't it? maybe a kind of book, where you put her favourite photos and write a little bit about the memories you have shared...like holidays, children, pets, even difficult times that you came through together. and leave room to add to it. something personal that you can both share. and i agree with the previous poster how loving pets can be if you both have room and time to give it!!
Author ItCanBeTough Posted March 25, 2008 Author Posted March 25, 2008 If you don't have any pets, get her a persian kitten or a small lap dog. At least those are the type of gifts my wife would want. She bought me my second german shepherd 3 years ago. That was the best xmas present I have ever received. It's a gift that doesn't stop giving. My wife likes kittens, but she is allergic to animal dander and gets bad hypersensitivity allergic reactions to it. Plus we are not in a good living situation now for pets. Little money, small apartment, when I'm done with school and training that might be the time to do that, but it's really up to her. Every time we go to a place with kittens, she invariably pets them and then gets watery-eyed, and then sucks on her albuterol to prevent an asthma attack.
Mustang Sally Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 Hi ICBT. I haven't read all of your thread - only about 2/3 of it. I'm sure you will gain much valuable insight from many other posters here - lots of wisdom on this site. Your story struck a real chord with me because your description of your mindset about your OW is so incredibly similar to another friend I have who found himself in a similar situation. So, I thought I'd just offer up another opinion for you to consider. I understand your wondering about what this other woman thinks of you and the "why?" that you allow yourself to become (over)occupied with, regarding her intentions and motivations. I have been there, too (as a woman) and I have, as stated above, a friend who has shared his male version of the same story with me, that I have learned a lot from. I would offer to you that - unless you desire to go down an almost assuredly very painful road of self-discovery and betrayal towards the other people in your life that you profess to value (wife, kids, other family members, heck - even your own personal integrity) - you are best to turn away from all of this justification for your wonderings that you appear to be currently embroiled in. Again. Please know that I can understand the need for ego-strokes and self-validation. I think many (most, even?) people (especially those in long-term monogamous relationships) do go through this type of "phase" at some point (mid-life, or otherwise). Although, not everyone manifests it in precisely the same way. For example, some walk the line of physical affairs, and even cross over the line into actual physical affairs. Some engage in deeply entangled emotional affairs with no physical manifestation (maybe this restriction makes it easier for the affair partners to deny that they are actually cheating?). Some limit thier activity to just "inappropriate friendships" with potential affair partners, but never really cross into true emotional affairs. Still others find their validation in pursuing inappropriate flirting relationships with internet "friends," and justify their actions by saying that it's only virtual reality, not "In Real Life," and therefore, it doesn't really count. I could go on, but I'm sure you get my point: you can try to color it any way you like, but it all ultimately boils down to people seeking validation and ego-strokes outside of the primary long-term relationship that they made a commitment to. There are examples of everything I've described above (and more) here, at this site. I hope you will allow yourself the opportunity to listen and learn from them. Anyway, what I hope to get across to you is that while you are telling yourself that this dalliance that you are allowing yourself (if only in your mind) is really the responsibility of your wife, or the OW's response to you, or whatever... what I believe it is REALLY about, is YOU, my friend. And something in your psyche that is flawed, damaged, or even broken, that you need this kind of validation outside of the constraints of what the society that you live and participate in has deemed appropriate and acceptable. Now, don't misunderstand me. This does not make you a bad person. But I've seen many here (and like I said - I've been there myself) delude themselves into assessing all sorts of blame for their own personal faults on others (wives who withhold sex, husbands who don't appreciate or emotionally sate their wives, mothers who've been insanely overbearing, fathers who've abandoned their families, just to name a few of the more cliche' ones). Hell - we've all probably done it at one point or another. You know? But I really believe that the necessary first step to REALLY recovering from your "stinkin' thinkin'" that has led you to focus energy away from your wife and your kids and your marriage is to (painfully) honestly acknowledge that the real issue here is not what this or that other woman may or may not do/say/think to/about you, but why YOU have the need to even be wondering those questions in the first place. At the end of the day, if a person wants to affect change in their own existence, all they can really do is control THEMSELF. You (collectively speaking) cannot control what your spouse does, what your other woman/man does, but you CAN control what you allow yourself to do/think/be. And this - THIS - is what will define your character when it is all said and done. Capiche? Peace to you and good luck with your journey, man.
Author ItCanBeTough Posted March 25, 2008 Author Posted March 25, 2008 maybe a kind of book, where you put her favourite photos and write a little bit about the memories you have shared...like holidays, children, pets, even difficult times that you came through together. and leave room to add to it. something personal that you can both share. and i agree with the previous poster how loving pets can be if you both have room and time to give it!! I think that is a wonderful idea. I tried doing that last year, but it takes so bloody long. However if I study my ass off and take the exam soon enough, then I'll have some time to possibly pull this off. Brilliant! Sometimes I think I'm a complete dope b/c I'm awful with gifts.
Starla Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 I think that is a wonderful idea. I tried doing that last year, but it takes so bloody long. However if I study my ass off and take the exam soon enough, then I'll have some time to possibly pull this off. Brilliant! Sometimes I think I'm a complete dope b/c I'm awful with gifts. she'll see that it took time and a LOT of effort, and love it for that reason. you could maybe write a poem for her and put it in..or if you have kept anything like ticket stubs from a concert or plane tickets, you could stick them in...like a memory book of your relationship!! another thing you could do, if you have any artist friends, is choose her favourite photo in the world, and ask someone to draw it, and then you could frame it!!
whichwayisup Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 If you are interested, I'll come back in one month and post on how things have changed. Stick around. Read more threads, ask questions. And yes, we're interested in your progress. Glad that you've taken in some of the advice handed out to you. This may seem cheesy, but I want to thank the recent posts from WhichWayIsUp (everything you said is right-on), Nah, it's not cheesy at all. Happy to help you and I'm glad that what I said make sense to you. Lastly, norjane your last post was wonderful, it really was. There are many things that we both can do to make our lives better. I think we have a good marriage but it's been strained in recent years due to work and child commitments of which we can't get out of (however I didn't communicate that clearly based on some of the flame throwing responses I've gotten.) Make special time for your wife. Plan something for when she gets back for just the two of you. Have flowers ready and her favourite food cooked, or her favourite candy for when she comes back home. Arrange someone (grandparents, sister, or something) to take your kids for a weekend so you and your wife can have a weekend alone. Don't have to go far, can even go to a nice hotel in your City. This will help that intimacy again between you two as a couple and not just mommy and daddy. BOTH of you need to do your best to make time for eachother.
whichwayisup Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 Okay, just read the last page here...So it's her bday.. Well, do the spa weekend together. Massages, sit in a hottub, manicure, pedicure, the whole works. Buy her favourite perfume, or a suscription to a magazine she enjoys reading. Since she is allergic to cats, that's out, even if she wasn't allergic, I agree that adding another addition to your family right now is probably going to stress her out even more. 3 kids is enough!
macon Posted March 29, 2008 Posted March 29, 2008 You know, if you're not too happy with your and your wife's sex life, has it occurred to you that she might also not be totally satisfied? Sounds like you need to spice things up a bit! I say forget the thoughthful presents and book a night or a weekend in a sexy hotel (obviously if you can get grandparents to take the kids!). Once you're rested and feeling switched off from the normal stresses of your family life, have a fabulous dinner or something, then go **** in the car, or whatever you used to do at the start of your relationship! I know me and my ex used to love to have sex in unexpected places - the bedroom, after a while, just had this expected element about it. Obviously with kids it makes life a lot harder (!), but I always found the sex more exciting if it was on the couch, on the stairs - anywhere really except the bedroom!
Portage Posted March 29, 2008 Posted March 29, 2008 I feel so sorry for your wife. Tick Tock Tick Tock
StayClose Posted April 2, 2008 Posted April 2, 2008 If you don't have any pets, get her a persian kitten or a small lap dog. At least those are the type of gifts my wife would want. She bought me my second german shepherd 3 years ago. That was the best xmas present I have ever received. It's a gift that doesn't stop giving. NO! DO NOT GIVE PETS AS GIFTS unless you have had thouftful discussions with your spouse/recipient about the respnsibilities of pet ownership. If you are considering a puppy, please do research into dog breads and select a breed that fits your ligestyle. My wife works with dogs and there are many sad stories of dogs who started life as cute cuddly gifts but now spend most of their life locked in cages or garages because their owners are unable or unwilling to give them the time and care they need. As for married people having EAs... Been there... At a certain point you realize nothing good can come from it and you are better off working on your marriage.
Je Ne Regrette Rien Posted April 3, 2008 Posted April 3, 2008 I don't think she's interested...I think she thinks you're "safe". A safe, comfy married man who is getting a kick from taking her out, enjoying her company. Maybe she is thinking "Cool, this guy is interested. Wow, I feel entertaining, funny,sexy, wanted! Do I want to f*&^ him? No. But he makes me feel wanted and I think he needed a good night out with a cool lady". I'm an OW and there was only ever one man in the room with my MM. He lit it up for me. There wasn't a minute I would have wasted talking about some casual boyfriend. My mind was on him and only him...still is. That said, I agree with those saying you have absolutely no idea that you're on the brink of an affair with someone, my friend. We ALL start with "I would never do that!" or "I have control over my emotions!" . BTDTGTT! For example...She decides she wants you. She sidles up, looking gorgeous, smelling fantastic and says "I want you. Right Here. Right Now. I've ALWAYS wanted you. Just YOU. YOU YOU YOU". Your ego is going to explode. Your mindset becomes "What if I have to miss out on this amazing experience? I'll be with W forever, surely one misdemeanour wont hurt - its not like she's offering me sex on a plate everyday is it?" You turn OW down, your W still doesn't do it for you in the bedroom, you start to resent her thinking "God, I gave up the chance of bedding that gorgeous OW for this?" Eventually you go to OW, and you bed her....and a physical affair is born. The emotional affair has already begun.
Recommended Posts