ItCanBeTough Posted March 23, 2008 Posted March 23, 2008 I will try to keep this short. For the last 3 months I've gotten to be pretty good friends with a woman at work. I look forward to seeing her, and I think she has had those thoughts as well. She knows that I'm married, and I speak fondly of my wife and kids to her. But...I flirt with her and if I were a betting man (and I am ) I'd say she has flirted with me to. She has opened herself emotionally to me about past relationships and her psyche, always asking me for an opinion. We buy each other little things like brownies and cookies for lunch every now and then. And she laughs at everything I say (sometimes it gets a little over board, actually.) The fact that "we are friends" wouldn't concern me much - with the exception that we have become good friends really fast. I mean, we have crammed 9-12 months of friendship building into 3 months. Why would a very good looking single female become good friends with a very good looking married man who has kids? I think about her all the time. I actually see her more than my wife because we work so hard at our jobs. Sometimes she drives me batty. The other day I told her that I wanted to go out and party because my wife and kids are back with her parents for a few weeks of vacation (we transiently re-located to a city that we both hate so a few times a year she has gone home for a few weeks to see her parents.) So I haven't had "single" fun in many years so I wanted to go out! She set up everything and I met her at a bar, of course she looked fantastic and we talked the entire night and had a great time. The only thing that annoyed me was she wanted to talk to me about a guy she has been having "unemotional sex" with for the past year. I told here there is no such thing...yada yada. The details of the conversation is un-important for my query. But needless to say, I didn't want to hear about it for 3 hours when I'm the one that wants to have sex with her. Later in the evening we ditched her girlfriends and we walked around the city, going to a nice hotel to get a late night drink, I walked her back to her place, and spent another hour talking about ****. Nothing happened. I offered to drive her to the airport the following day so I saw her one more time before her week vacation. A few quick factoids - my wife is the best woman in the world and I love her. The only thing I'm not all that fond of is our sex life, but we are both incredibly busy and we have two kids. But even before we had kids, the sex life wasn't that great. - I am in control of my emotions. I won't cheat on my wife. I'm not stupid. My question: Ultimately I want to know if this other woman *wants me*. Because I totally want her. It's my little fantasy. I can't have her, and even if I could workplace relationships are such a no-no. But do you know how nice it feels to know that someone wants to $@#^ you? I think this woman is saying to herself "I want (to marry) a man just like him", or even better..."I want (to marry) him." I'm thinking "I want take her to bed right now!" If she wants me, and I want her, and it's out in the open, then I think I'll be happy and at peace. For I know that I've "gotten the girl." When I was single, the prize for going out to a bar is to flirt up a girl and take her home. Because that is (one form of) validation of your attractiveness. But I can't take this girl home. So I'm looking for some concrete confirmation. That's all. What do you think?
Author ItCanBeTough Posted March 23, 2008 Author Posted March 23, 2008 Sorry guys, it wasn't short! But I hope it's very readable.
whichwayisup Posted March 23, 2008 Posted March 23, 2008 (edited) Why would a very good looking single female become good friends with a very good looking married man who has kids Because you are flirting back and making it okay, you're giving her a little hope that something will happen between you. Whatever you do, do NOT tell her what you're thinking, let alone act upon it. My question: Ultimately I want to know if this other woman *wants me*. Because I totally want her. It's my little fantasy. I can't have her, and even if I could workplace relationships are such a no-no. But do you know how nice it feels to know that someone wants to $@#^ you? I think this woman is saying to herself "I want (to marry) a man just like him", or even better..."I want (to marry) him." I'm thinking "I want take her to bed right now!" You're obviously enjoying the ego feed this woman gives you. Sure, it feels good to be desired by someone else, but you're dangerously close to crossing lines and making a stupid mistake that could cost you your wife and kids. You definately need to distance yourself from this woman - and don't spend alot of one on one time with her..Don't put yourself in that situation where you won't be able to say no.....You're happily married, so really think about the consquences. Also, imagine if your wife was doing this with another man, lusting after him, wanting him..How would that make you feel? If she wants me, and I want her, and it's out in the open, then I think I'll be happy and at peace. For I know that I've "gotten the girl." When I was single, the prize for going out to a bar is to flirt up a girl and take her home. Because that is (one form of) validation of your attractiveness. But I can't take this girl home. So I'm looking for some concrete confirmation. That's all. Don't make it out in the open. That's asking for trouble. Edited March 23, 2008 by whichwayisup
Lizzie60 Posted March 23, 2008 Posted March 23, 2008 Hummm..quite typical actually... But I dont understand this: I am in control of my emotions. I won't cheat on my wife. I'm not stupid. BULL!!!!! So why would you want to know if she wants you???? If she does, it would only torture you... What do you think? I think that you'll do everything in your power to find out AND you'll end up in bed with her.. Typical!!!
LucreziaBorgia Posted March 23, 2008 Posted March 23, 2008 If she wants me, and I want her, and it's out in the open, then I think I'll be happy and at peace. For I know that I've "gotten the girl." Happy and at peace? Good for you. What about the woman you are getting ready to reduce down to some tawdry ego stroke? So, you want to say to OW: I just wanted to make sure you want to f*ck me - but I don't have any intention of f*cking you, because I love my wife and will never cheat on her. It might stroke your ego to be 'wanted' but how on earth would you justify insulting and humiliating a woman to accomplish that? Of course, if you keep this up you will slip and end up f*cking this OW anyway. I'm sure she would feel great knowing that you went into thinking of her as nothing but a f*ck to make you feel better about yourself. On one hand, I have to say your post is helpful in a twisted sort of way. Very few OW are aware that a good deal of MM go into affairs with exactly your mindset.
whichwayisup Posted March 23, 2008 Posted March 23, 2008 On one hand, I have to say your post is helpful in a twisted sort of way. Very few OW are aware that a good deal of MM go into affairs with exactly your mindset. Great point LB. Though as it seems, a good deal of MM who have that frame of mind, atleast around here on LS, end up falling for the OW - UNTIL they get caught and then it seems MM throws OW under the bus as he then has to choose between two women, one that he lusts after, and one who he loves and is married to. Many men are able to separate love and sex. Most women (atleast the ones I know) don't find it flattering when a man, let alone a MM, just wants to f**k ya.
Lizzie60 Posted March 23, 2008 Posted March 23, 2008 Great point LB. Though as it seems, a good deal of MM who have that frame of mind, atleast around here on LS, end up falling for the OW - UNTIL they get caught and then it seems MM throws OW under the bus as he then has to choose between two women, one that he lusts after, and one who he loves and is married to. Many men are able to separate love and sex. Most women (atleast the ones I know) don't find it flattering when a man, let alone a MM, just wants to f**k ya. I'm OK with that..
norajane Posted March 23, 2008 Posted March 23, 2008 If she wants me, and I want her, and it's out in the open, then I think I'll be happy and at peace. For I know that I've "gotten the girl." I think you are fooling yourself. As soon as you have any confirmation that she is interested in you, you will take it to the next level in your head and actually consider "what would it hurt?" if you f*cked her. Slippery slope. You're teetering on the edge. I think this woman is saying to herself "I want (to marry) a man just like him", or even better..."I want (to marry) him." I'm thinking "I want take her to bed right now!" How flattering. You DO see the huge difference between those two lines of thought, right? And how much more damaging it would be to her if she really did want you in a full relationship sense - marriage, even! - while all you want is to f*ck her? Nip this in the bud because if she is falling for you, she will be hurt. And if she's not, then your ego will be in shreds when you figure that out. Oh, yeah, and let's not forget YOUR WIFE and how she'd feel if she caught wind of any of this. So what part of this WOULDN'T be a disaster in the end?
annieo Posted March 23, 2008 Posted March 23, 2008 OP I'm not sure she is that into you. She had the opportunity and it didn't happen. Or maybe she is (quite rightly) having qualms about your "happily" married status. As you should be. Smarten up and start treating your wife with more respect, as well as this OW. How do you think your wife would feel about your "single guy" night out,while she is out of town with the kids? Seriously imagine her reaction. Not to mention your children's, if they are old enough to grasp what you've DONE, not to mention what you are thinking about doing. If you were horribly unhappy in your marriage, had tried to make it right, and felt some sort of deep emotional connection to this other woman, I would be more sympathetic to your "problem", or the temptation. As it is, you come across as a selfish, dishonest jerk (which is perhaps what the OW is starting to see). What kind of man do you really want to be?
Cobra_X30 Posted March 23, 2008 Posted March 23, 2008 Sorry guys, it wasn't short! But I hope it's very readable. Why do you think this lady talked for 3 hours about her FWB? She told you for a reason... so what do you think drove her to talk to you about this? I ask because you seem to be a very smart guy. In regards to your wife. This desire for outside validation might come from doubt about your W's sexual interest in you. You describe your sex life as poor even at the best of times. How so? I say this because it's at the heart of your desire for validation with this other woman.
Author ItCanBeTough Posted March 23, 2008 Author Posted March 23, 2008 You're obviously enjoying the ego feed this woman gives you. Sure, it feels good to be desired by someone else, but you're dangerously close to crossing lines and making a stupid mistake that could cost you your wife and kids. You definately need to distance yourself from this woman - and don't spend alot of one on one time with her..Don't put yourself in that situation where you won't be able to say no.....You're happily married, so really think about the consquences. Also, imagine if your wife was doing this with another man, lusting after him, wanting him..How would that make you feel? I know what you are saying. I've thought about that at great length, putting myself in a position where I might make a stupid mistake. That does imply that she would make a stupid mistake, but my mistake would be leagues worse than hers. I have actually told my wife about her, and I told her that I went out a few nights ago with her and her friends to a bar. Not two weeks earlier my wife went out with her girlfriends while I babysat and she told me she had a great time, and a few old dudes (20 yrs older than her) were hitting on her and her friends at the bar. She thought it was cute and amusing and so did I. I unequivocally trust her judgment and she will never do anything like cheat on me. Now lusting over another guy...I suppose if it happened for several months it would bother me. It's like an extended fantasy. When she does yoga at the gym it's always with this hot instructor and I think it's kind of funny. I've met the guy and frankly I agree with my wife! Don't make it out in the open. That's asking for trouble. Thank you for your opinion. I'm curious...what do you think would happen if it came out in the open? I have been trying to predict my emotional reaction and I believe it would be favorable, but I think I *want* it to be favorable. I also think that the so-called "peak" of flirting might be on the downswing, so I could just ride this out for several more months, perhaps let it run it's course like a slow death. This has happened to me in the past too. It happens about once a year. A woman and I invariably flirt with each other and after many months it fizzles. But there is a period of time where I spend a lot of time thinking about that women. Even now I wonder about their emotions and their thoughts. Because even though there is some flirting, you never really know what's going on their heads, right?
Siciliana Posted March 23, 2008 Posted March 23, 2008 You really wanna know what I think? I think you need to leave her alone before you end up hurting all parties involved. I think you need to get off this ego trip about how attractive you are and how she wants to marry you and realize that she is a PERSON and not a GAME. Thank you for reminding me, once again, how bad men suck.
Author ItCanBeTough Posted March 23, 2008 Author Posted March 23, 2008 Hummm..quite typical actually... But I dont understand this: I am in control of my emotions. I won't cheat on my wife. I'm not stupid. BULL!!!!! So why would you want to know if she wants you???? If she does, it would only torture you... What do you think? I think that you'll do everything in your power to find out AND you'll end up in bed with her.. Typical!!! Why don't you trust me? Do you think I'm a stereotypical male? I'm a little disappointed in the lack of depth of your response. I want to know because it feels good. And the vast majority of things in life that make you feel good are good and healthy for you. It makes excellent evolutionary sense. There are obvious exceptions... but does it not make you feel good when a guy shoots you confident, sexy smile on the bus or at the gym?
Siciliana Posted March 23, 2008 Posted March 23, 2008 Oh, and I think you need to ask your wife her opinion on this matter, too.
Author ItCanBeTough Posted March 23, 2008 Author Posted March 23, 2008 Happy and at peace? Good for you. What about the woman you are getting ready to reduce down to some tawdry ego stroke? So, you want to say to OW: I just wanted to make sure you want to f*ck me - but I don't have any intention of f*cking you, because I love my wife and will never cheat on her. It might stroke your ego to be 'wanted' but how on earth would you justify insulting and humiliating a woman to accomplish that? Good point. I just thought what it would be like if the roles were changed, I was single, she was married, and she said to me "I really find you attractive and if I were single I would want you. Some guy in the future is going to be really lucky to be with you" (which is similar to how I would phrase it) it would make me feel pretty good. I don't think I would feel insulted or humiliated. Part of the reason for flirting with someone you know you can't have (and just go with me here on the "know you can't have" bit because I know you'll say something like "everybody can be had" or some sh*t like that) is that it's innocent, it won't go anywhere, it's practice, it's fun. On one hand, I have to say your post is helpful in a twisted sort of way. Very few OW are aware that a good deal of MM go into affairs with exactly your mindset. Well, in a twisted sort of way I'm glad I was able to help. You know, I'm getting this out in the open very early on, and thank god for anonymous forums where this can be held.
Lizzie60 Posted March 23, 2008 Posted March 23, 2008 Why don't you trust me? Do you think I'm a stereotypical male? I'm a little disappointed in the lack of depth of your response. I want to know because it feels good. And the vast majority of things in life that make you feel good are good and healthy for you. It makes excellent evolutionary sense. There are obvious exceptions... but does it not make you feel good when a guy shoots you confident, sexy smile on the bus or at the gym? Of course it does.. but you should be content with the fact that she's a good friend and it feels good that she likes you.. Do I trust you? NO.. not at all.. you are married.. and IMO you're about to cheat on your wife.. I'm not trying to find out if every guy that smile at me wants to sleep with me................. I know they would..
Author ItCanBeTough Posted March 23, 2008 Author Posted March 23, 2008 You DO see the huge difference between those two lines of thought, right? And how much more damaging it would be to her if she really did want you in a full relationship sense - marriage, even! - while all you want is to f*ck her? Nip this in the bud because if she is falling for you, she will be hurt. And if she's not, then your ego will be in shreds when you figure that out. Oh, yeah, and let's not forget YOUR WIFE and how she'd feel if she caught wind of any of this. So what part of this WOULDN'T be a disaster in the end? I appreciate all of the comments on this board but I'm beginning to think that all MM who end up having an affair start down this slippery slope the way I've described it and UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES cannot get out of it. It's like my fate is sealed. I don't think she wants a relationship. Certainly not marriage. When I said "work" above I shied away from what I really do to make so identity could not be culled from this website. We are both in school where you earn your MD after 4 years so I see her, along with all of my other classmates all the time and I study 60-70 hours a week. She is a few years out of college and worked for several years before going back to school. That's why I don't see my wife and kids all the time.
Author ItCanBeTough Posted March 23, 2008 Author Posted March 23, 2008 OP I'm not sure she is that into you. She had the opportunity and it didn't happen. Or maybe she is (quite rightly) having qualms about your "happily" married status. As you should be. Smarten up and start treating your wife with more respect, as well as this OW. How do you think your wife would feel about your "single guy" night out,while she is out of town with the kids? Seriously imagine her reaction. Not to mention your children's, if they are old enough to grasp what you've DONE, not to mention what you are thinking about doing. If you were horribly unhappy in your marriage, had tried to make it right, and felt some sort of deep emotional connection to this other woman, I would be more sympathetic to your "problem", or the temptation. As it is, you come across as a selfish, dishonest jerk (which is perhaps what the OW is starting to see). What kind of man do you really want to be? Annieo, it takes two to tango, and that's why it didn't happen. And I do think about my wife and kids all the time, that's why I'm confident that I won't cheat. Why is that so f*cking hard to believe? Because every other guy in my position invariably, at some point in the future, f*cks up and cheats?
Author ItCanBeTough Posted March 23, 2008 Author Posted March 23, 2008 Why do you think this lady talked for 3 hours about her FWB? EXCELLENT question. By the way, what does FWB stand for? I really have no idea. It could either be 1) a distancing-from-me tactic, 2) a move-closer-to-me tactic (but I hated hearing about it so much) or 3) she just wanted my opinion. Also, she could have very easily gotten into a cab with her girlfriends and said "I had fun tonight and I'm going home. I'll talk to you later." But she did anything but that. She told you for a reason... so what do you think drove her to talk to you about this? I ask because you seem to be a very smart guy. Thank you for the compliment. I actually think I'm a reasonably intelligent guy but I don't understand the motivation for conversation. There is definitely an aspect of #3 above, but there is also #1 or #2 as well. If I wanted a girl why would I tell her about some lousy sex relationship with some other girl I'm not into? In regards to your wife. This desire for outside validation might come from doubt about your W's sexual interest in you. You describe your sex life as poor even at the best of times. How so? I say this because it's at the heart of your desire for validation with this other woman. I much agree with this sentiment. Our sex life was great for the first year of dating, went slightly down for the following year (but I think that is normal), and stayed like that until after we got married. At this point it started to get less interesting, and then we had kids it went down to 1/month, sometimes less. However I am not upset with the frequency at all. It is horribly and exhaustingly difficult to take care of two young kids. Now that I've had a change in jobs (see previous posts) I'm never around and she is working her tail off. The quality of the sex is low. I'm always initiating it, there is little foreplay and surprisingly she doesn't demand more. For instance, she never asks for oral sex, I'm always offering. I don't think she has had an orgasm with me. I have tried talking to her it, asking what I can do, how she can feel more comfortable, etc. We went out and bought her a dildo. She has probably used it a handful of times over several years. She has extreme difficulty talking about sex, or more specifically my desire to have more, and more equal sex where we both get something out of it.
Author ItCanBeTough Posted March 23, 2008 Author Posted March 23, 2008 You really wanna know what I think? I think you need to leave her alone before you end up hurting all parties involved. I think you need to get off this ego trip about how attractive you are and how she wants to marry you and realize that she is a PERSON and not a GAME. Thank you for reminding me, once again, how bad men suck. You are so far from the truth Siciliana. She doesn't want to marry me. This isn't a game. If this was a f*cking game when why did I post on this board? And I am attractive, DAMMIT!
Author ItCanBeTough Posted March 23, 2008 Author Posted March 23, 2008 Do I trust you? NO.. not at all.. you are married.. and IMO you're about to cheat on your wife. I'm curious, have you been the victim of cheating? Or any other infidelity, scandalous, inappropriate behavior, or humiliating relationship with a man? All men are not created equal. And I will lay you 1,000,000 to 1 odds on a bet in Las Vegas (and I'll let you pick the wager) that I will not cheat on my wife.
2sunny Posted March 23, 2008 Posted March 23, 2008 you are essentially lying to yourself because of this comment: Why would a very good looking single female become good friends with a very good looking married man who has kids? I think about her all the time. these comments also make me wonder if you're trying to convince yourself of something: A few quick factoids - my wife is the best woman in the world and I love her. . - I am in control of my emotions. I won't cheat on my wife. I'm not stupid. you're playing with fire and you will get burned because of your thoughts like this: My question: Ultimately I want to know if this other woman *wants me*. Because I totally want her. I'm thinking "I want take her to bed right now!" big problem at hand. how would you feel if your wife was acting this way with another man... having these thoughts with you being completely unaware? why don't you spill it all to her and see if it all can be extinguished before the real harm is caused? if you love her - that is...
annieo Posted March 23, 2008 Posted March 23, 2008 Annieo, it takes two to tango, and that's why it didn't happen. And I do think about my wife and kids all the time, that's why I'm confident that I won't cheat. Why is that so f*cking hard to believe? Because every other guy in my position invariably, at some point in the future, f*cks up and cheats? So why are you any different? It sounds like you are building a case, giving yourself permission. You don't have to be a saint, right? Most guys would, by your own admission. That's why it's so f*cking hard to believe you. Wake the f*ck up! You know what you are on the cusp of doing, so own up.
Lizzie60 Posted March 23, 2008 Posted March 23, 2008 I'm curious, have you been the victim of cheating? Or any other infidelity, scandalous, inappropriate behavior, or humiliating relationship with a man? All men are not created equal. And I will lay you 1,000,000 to 1 odds on a bet in Las Vegas (and I'll let you pick the wager) that I will not cheat on my wife. No I've never been cheated.. I've always been the dumper.. not the dumpee (except for one time when I was 22)... I've never been abused... I am what you can call a 'strong' woman.. I know what I want and what I don't want.. and I don't compromise anymore.. Yeah.. yeah.. you won't cheat.. just read the previous post from Sunny2.. she very well put what I mean... you contradict yourself.. Good for you if you think you're strong enough.. I have the right to think you're NOT!
Author ItCanBeTough Posted March 23, 2008 Author Posted March 23, 2008 2sunny, you think all guys are pigs if they have feelings or fantasies of having sex with other women? Even for months? How do I suppress my feelings for wanting to have tons of sex? If a man has two testicles, he will have those feelings. Acting on those thoughts can be extremely damaging, perhaps criminal. Having those thoughts is quite natural.
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