AussieJack Posted March 23, 2008 Posted March 23, 2008 From my very limited experience, I shall tell you. I met this girl a while ago now, we hit it off, had dates and all that jazz, it went well until she "being a woman" decided to 'talk' and hint about whether we were going out or not. So instead of boring her with small talk, I arranged a meeting with her, we went for a walk and then she decided to try and talk again, and I didn't really want to talk, because talk is cheap. So I just grabbed her, pulled her into me and kissed her and then I said, there's your answer. A while into a relationship she wanted to spend a weekend away with me, she hinted at it and decided to try and tell me outright. So, figuring talk is cheap, I went out and arranged something for the very next day I booked our hostel and away we went, just like that. No talk was needed. Eventually she got in frustrated by a lack of talk and broke things off, but the point is talking just wastes time, I'd rather quit the chat and be spontaneous and implusive, these are actions and speak louder than any words. Actions are the best way forward, unless you're an emo. THis guy gets it- To all you other 'men' on this site who are bewildered ,frustrated and irritated by some women's endless emotional " need" to TALK - read this post above. Read it over and over and then go out and live it.. However,there are some women, like his G/f, who are stiil not satisfied with the unmistakeable message that comes from male action like the above . Too bad, let 'em go. What this type of woman really wants is for you to be her 'male Girlfriend', not her Man. .Women like this are a pain,. They are endlessly insecure and you need to blow up their balloon daily or they fall apart. I had a 42 year old G/f in 2006 who used to say that she "felt neglected " if she did not receive a text from me by noon the day after a date with me ... she eventaully broke up with me because she wanted a man to feed her this juvenile reassurance almost hourly. Some woman are just not good candidates ..
Trialbyfire Posted March 23, 2008 Posted March 23, 2008 THis guy gets it- To all you other 'men' on this site who are bewildered ,frustrated and irritated by some women's endless emotional " need" to TALK - read this post above. Read it over and over and then go out and live it.. However,there are some women, like his G/f, who are stiil not satisfied with the unmistakeable message that comes from male action like the above . Too bad, let 'em go. What this type of woman really wants is for you to be her 'male Girlfriend', not her Man. .Women like this are a pain,. They are endlessly insecure and you need to blow up their balloon daily or they fall apart. I had a 42 year old G/f in 2006 who used to say that she "felt neglected " if she did not receive a text from me by noon the day after a date with me ... she eventaully broke up with me because she wanted a man to feed her this juvenile reassurance almost hourly. Some woman are just not good candidates .. But of course. Banging her should be enough to keep her going, right? No doubt women have their uses, don't they?
norajane Posted March 23, 2008 Posted March 23, 2008 Or are these gals freaking out because in their guts do they really KNOW that their guy doesn't want a relationship, and they're afraid to hear the bitter truth?? Yes, of course. And they figure if they can manage to stay in his life longer, he might actually begin to want a relationship with them, you know, once he sees how wonderful they are and gets comfortable having them around. A woman who knows the guy is into her doesn't have to ask or have the talk - it's obvious. If she is uncertain, it's because he hasn't been making it clear that he IS into her, so he must be not into her or not enough into her.
Touche Posted March 23, 2008 Posted March 23, 2008 You have to look at this in multiple ways. Yes, a circular 4 hour conversation is as meaningless, as an udder is on a bull. A 1/2 hour meaningful conversation about where one stands, means A LOT! It's got nothing to do with insecurities and everything to do with communication. Whether you guys like it or not, you have to learn to emotionally open up and express yourself. We, as women, can't read your minds and for the life of me, I don't even want to friggen' try! Agreed but "communication" takes many forms. And there's always a right time and a wrong time for such things. Timing is everything in life, isn't it? And sometimes, things unspoken speak louder than any words.
AussieJack Posted March 23, 2008 Posted March 23, 2008 Then there's some women who make the talk sound like a formal event, where the man has to dress up in his smartest suit, take her out to dinner and then discuss the matter as if it were a piece of UN legislation. If a woman just asked "where do I stand?" I'm sure she'd get her answer, either by action (my way of doing things) or by a brief sentence or two from her man on what's happening. THis is so true - and very funny ! " A piece of UN legislation... '' ha ha ha ha !!
Trialbyfire Posted March 23, 2008 Posted March 23, 2008 Yes, of course. And they figure if they can manage to stay in his life longer, he might actually begin to want a relationship with them, you know, once he sees how wonderful they are and gets comfortable having them around. A woman who knows the guy is into her doesn't have to ask or have the talk - it's obvious. If she is uncertain, it's because he hasn't been making it clear that he IS into her, so he must be not into her or not enough into her. Clarity is everything. Either make it clear, or get dumped. Those are the harsh realities.
Trialbyfire Posted March 23, 2008 Posted March 23, 2008 Agreed but "communication" takes many forms. And there's always a right time and a wrong time for such things. Timing is everything in life, isn't it? And sometimes, things unspoken speak louder than any words. It's twofold, as I expressed to the other member. It's a combination of words and actions, with both jiving. If they don't jive, you've got issues.
Touche Posted March 23, 2008 Posted March 23, 2008 Yes, of course. And they figure if they can manage to stay in his life longer, he might actually begin to want a relationship with them, you know, once he sees how wonderful they are and gets comfortable having them around. A woman who knows the guy is into her doesn't have to ask or have the talk - it's obvious. If she is uncertain, it's because he hasn't been making it clear that he IS into her, so he must be not into her or not enough into her. Thank you. Exactly. That's what my experience in life has been anyway.
AussieJack Posted March 23, 2008 Posted March 23, 2008 We, as women, can't read your minds and for the life of me, I don't even want to friggen' try! Does this mean that you intend to retire from dating ?
Touche Posted March 23, 2008 Posted March 23, 2008 It's twofold, as I expressed to the other member. It's a combination of words and actions, with both jiving. If they don't jive, you've got issues. Words aren't always necessary..nor are actions. It's a complicated combination of both. You just have to really, I mean REALLY know the person well. Look at their past history and how they treat others. It's complex. But a smart woman can figure it out.
Trialbyfire Posted March 23, 2008 Posted March 23, 2008 Does this mean that you intend to retire from dating ? I did go on a dating strike for a number of months but that's been over with for a few months, so no. There are always more fish in the ocean and surprisingly, some can communicate beyond a grunt.
Trialbyfire Posted March 23, 2008 Posted March 23, 2008 Words aren't always necessary..nor are actions. It's a complicated combination of both. You just have to really, I mean REALLY know the person well. Look at their past history and how they treat others. It's complex. But a smart woman can figure it out. Yes, yes she can figure it out based on historical actions. A smart woman doesn't take bad risks.
Touche Posted March 23, 2008 Posted March 23, 2008 Yes, yes she can figure it out based on historical actions. A smart woman doesn't take bad risks. But see this begs the question..what's a bad risk? And what about what NJ said...this: he hasn't been making it clear that he IS into her This was bolded. I think this is key. I think different women (and of course it applies to men to) have a different idea of what it takes for someone to make it "clear" that they're into you. What it takes for me to know that might be different for someone else.
Trialbyfire Posted March 23, 2008 Posted March 23, 2008 What it takes for me to know that might be different for someone else. Exactly! Each person has requirements. If you can't meet them, it doesn't mean that one person is horrible, while the other is an angel. It is what it is. Perhaps it's time to move on, if the two different requirements can't find a place to meet.
Touche Posted March 23, 2008 Posted March 23, 2008 Exactly! Each person has requirements. If you can't meet them, it doesn't mean that one person is horrible, while the other is an angel. It is what it is. Perhaps it's time to move on, if the two different requirements can't find a place to meet. I do agree, TBF. You're right. It would be good if we can all assess our needs and whether we might be able to adjust/modify them or not..and whether we think they're realistic. But at the core, you're right in what you say here.
Trialbyfire Posted March 23, 2008 Posted March 23, 2008 I do agree, TBF. You're right. I would be good if we can all assess our needs and whether we might be able to adjust/modify them or not..and whether we think they're realistic. But at the core, you're right in what you say here. Everyone has their own reality and settling points. Some things are negotiable, others are non-negotiable. If both sides have cast certain requirements in stone, that's life. Not every relationship is worth salvaging, if it's a salvage operation on a continuous basis. There's only so much energy that one person has and only so much energy you can pump in to keep supporting a relationship, of this nature.
Touche Posted March 23, 2008 Posted March 23, 2008 Everyone has their own reality and settling points. Some things are negotiable, others are non-negotiable. If both sides have cast certain requirements in stone, that's life. Not every relationship is worth salvaging, if it's a salvage operation on a continuous basis. There's only so much energy that one person has and only so much energy you can pump in to keep supporting a relationship, of this nature. True. It's a fine line AND a gamble when determining whether a relationship is worth it or not. We can't always know whether it's a "salvage operation on a continuous basis" or not. Trust me. I took a gamble on that front myself. For me, it paid off.
BlueEyedGirl Posted March 23, 2008 Posted March 23, 2008 Whenever there is need for the "talk", 9 times out of 10 it will turn out negatively. As others have said, when things are good it's all clear. I have often dated guys where I felt the need for the talk - I have always held back, not for the fear of appearing needy or clingy but because deep down I knew I wouldn't like the answer and that point I wasn't ready for that.
Ariadne Posted March 23, 2008 Posted March 23, 2008 Every time when I wanted to have "the talk" was to dump the guy. I figured things were crap, so I'd ask them straight up if we were going to marry or be together etc. And of course, if they said no I could move on. It was more like an excuse to end it. Like BEG said, 9 out of 10 times is a no. But then, I'd also get guys that knew where this was heading that would give me the most deceiving answers so I'd stick around a little longer, even thought they didn't want a relationship.
Woggle Posted March 23, 2008 Posted March 23, 2008 Nothing good ever comes from the talk. It's like being called to the principles office in school because you know you are in for it and no guy likes to be in that spot. I wish more women would stop trying to pick at everything and let a relationship grow naturally. A man will want to commit to a woman he enjoys being around and women like this are not enjoyable to be around.
Covonia Posted March 23, 2008 Posted March 23, 2008 (edited) You have to look at this in multiple ways. Yes, a circular 4 hour conversation is as meaningless, as an udder is on a bull. A 1/2 hour meaningful conversation about where one stands, means A LOT! It's got nothing to do with insecurities and everything to do with communication. Whether you guys like it or not, you have to learn to emotionally open up and express yourself. We, as women, can't read your minds and for the life of me, I don't even want to friggen' try! If things are going well why do you even need to talk where you're heading? I understand in relationships talk is needed, where have I said it isn't? But constant discussions like where are you heading? What's happening? will rile the most patient person up. In my case, I was clearly interested in this girl, we had a lot of common ground, we enjoyed each other's company and the dates had been successful, so why did she decide to force the issue? It was clear as day that we were gonna end up together, it was just a case of letting it happen naturally, instead of forcing the issue (which she did, by trying to talk, when there was nothing to talk about). Communication is needed, I agree, but right at the start when you are just dating, getting to know each other etc? It's a bit excessive to me and quite off putting. If you have relationship problems, then yes, a half hour discussion or a four hour discussion might well be needed, sure things need to be sorted out, that's evident. But why get all series when dating is supposed to be fun? Where you are in the getting to know stage, I hardly want to get all series on dating scene. I want some light hearted discussion, about interests etc, not ridiculous questions of "when are we going to become an item?". The way I see it is, if it happens naturally then fantastic, but forcing the issue just doesn't go down well with me. I can open up, but why would I do that when I've just started dating someone or have just gotten into a relationship with a girl? I prefer to deal with my emotions alone, and if I can't cope with them, I might open up just a little bit. I'm not going to ring my gf up and spill my heart to her, because I'm not sure what's happening, or because I'm insecure and needy (I'm not any of these things by the way). Tomorrow brings another day, after all, so live for today and worry about tomorrow when tomorrow arrives. Clarity is everything. Either make it clear, or get dumped. Those are the harsh realities. Then StarGazer's friends should know where they stand, if after three months you aren't in a relationship with that man (in question) you'd have to think we'll prehaps he just sees me as sexual partner and break things off? Why carry on sleeping with someone, if you aren't sure where you stand and want more from the man? Do you honestly think a man is going to refuse sex with a girl who is making herself more than willing to engage? And to answer your question on clarity, you can clarify something through actions even better than through word of mouth and actions to me are always more sincere than word of mouth. It should be obvious to any woman or man when someone is into you. If a woman doesn't know when a man is into her, and then panics and starts being blowing things out of proportion then she instantly tarnish's what could be a successful relationship. Edited March 23, 2008 by Covonia typo's :@
sally4sara Posted March 23, 2008 Posted March 23, 2008 I don't know why someone would be so afraid to talk to the person they are dating about the situation they share. Especially if sex has become part of the equation. How does one get comfortable enough to have sex with someone if they are not comfortable enough to ask "Will we be each other's only sex partner or not?" That talk isn't about getting fully invested in each other and planning out a future, it is about knowing what risks you are taking with your health. And it's everyone's right to know the answer to that question. The other "talk" about where each of you stands in the relationship - why do we, as women, look to find this out from the guy after just a few weeks/dates? I've never been able to know the future I might have with someone in such a short amount of time and I'm certainly not going to be told what it is before I have my mind made up for myself. It usually takes at least 4 months before I could even hope to answer those questions if someone sat me down for that kind of talk. And if I can't answer those kinds of questions myself, no amount of talking is going to get me any closer to answering them. For me it is about the spending of time. If I know the answers to my own questions it is time to bring it up with the person I am dating. I don't fear doing it because if it ends the current situation, well, that is just less time wasted - NOT a missed opportunity due to asking too soon.
Covonia Posted March 23, 2008 Posted March 23, 2008 I don't know why someone would be so afraid to talk to the person they are dating about the situation they share. Especially if sex has become part of the equation. How does one get comfortable enough to have sex with someone if they are not comfortable enough to ask "Will we be each other's only sex partner or not?" That talk isn't about getting fully invested in each other and planning out a future, it is about knowing what risks you are taking with your health. And it's everyone's right to know the answer to that question. I agree, fully, but sex is something you have to talk about isn't it? It's not the same as asking someone where you stand with them after a few weeks/a month or two of dating.
sally4sara Posted March 23, 2008 Posted March 23, 2008 I agree, fully, but sex is something you have to talk about isn't it? It's not the same as asking someone where you stand with them after a few weeks/a month or two of dating. That is why I mentioned it as two different "talks". One you should have very early (if sex is something you wish to do with them). And another "talk" much later after you've sorted out some stuff for yourself first. I have seen too many of my female friends start twisting up about up about the second talk BECAUSE they are having sex with the guy. I just feel that if you've already learned what you need to to feel comfortable about having sex in the first place, you've probably learned all you need to know about where you stand in the situation to relax and let some of the other stuff sort out naturally for a good while longer. Like long enough to find out if the person has this qualities you seek to even be able to build a solid relationship in the first place. You can't know those things by talking about them, only by spending alot of time with them. People have the bad habit of being able to talk at great length about many things as an abstract while still not being able to put them into action. This makes many of these "talks" pointless. If you let some time go by, their actions can answer some of your questions better than their words ever can.
sally4sara Posted March 23, 2008 Posted March 23, 2008 I agree, fully, but sex is something you have to talk about isn't it? It's not the same as asking someone where you stand with them after a few weeks/a month or two of dating. You'd be surprised. In the heat of the moment, many people do what they want based on assumption and worry about that stuff later.
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