Is Porn A Reflection On How Men See Women?

[MakeLemonade]

Or maybe the "degrading" aspects (towards women) in porn are a reflection of how men really feel about "easy" women. Since by nature they're competitive hunters, they instinctively know that the worthy prey is the prey that is hard to catch. But since they're always "sitting on go" about sex (they'll do it anytime, anywhere, with anyone), of course they'll "shoot" the easy targets, just for the thrill of it. But they know it's a very brief, fleeting, short-term thrill. And it doesn't compare to the high they get when they catch the quarry that could not be caught.

 

IRL it's been my consistent experience that if I don't give it up, men treat me like gold. But if I act like an easy slut, I get treated very disrespectfully by men.

 

This is a great observation - and probably very true. And this could also be why it is easy for men to compartmentalize the women they see in porn - and keep them so easily on the screen vs. letting them invade their thoughts of what they want/like in R/L. Men don't want anything from the easy girls except to score. And even then - most men wouldn't want those sloppy seconds anyway. This is how men can look at porn, not relate those images to the W/SO in their life and not let it diminish their respect for them either. Girls in porn are easy, they would have to be right? Not saying that is necessarily true across the board, but I believe most men would think that, it would help with the fantasies as they are looking as well. Well, sure she'd do me, she does everyone. While that momentarily might help with the arousal factor, it also keeps that image at arm's length and allows him to go back to R/L without any feelings of "I wish" or "Wow, if only my W was..."

 

I also want to qualify that to say - that is probably the case in relationships that have healthy sex lives - if a man isn't getting any? He is going to be thinking the I wish..... and if only..... thoughts because thoughts of sex with a slut will help get him by as he takes care of himself, as opposed to NONE which for a man especially, I know - really sucks.

 

As for hoping I represent a small segment of the female population, that is fine. I however in turn wish men that watched porn was a small segment of the population myself. Unfortunetly, for alot of women out there that love a man and have one in their life, their time with him is often split between a medium that objectifies and can often degrade women. But somehow, we are suppose to think that men really value and respect women. Please tell me how that is suppose to work? When one actions says something competely different.

 

Split implies equal time - are you implying that the majority of men who look at porn are spending the same amount or even close to the same amount of time with porn as they do with their W/SO? If that is your opinion, I strongly disagree. If a man is spending that much time with porn, he is probably with a woman who doesn't care to spend time with him - or he has a problem. That is not the norm, the average, etc.

 

 

I don't think my comments are so far fetched. I don't think poorly of men. But I don't know what you expect women to think when there is an entire medium that we know men really love/enjoy that objectifies and degrades women for the soul pleasure of a man. Which also sets an impossible standard of sexual acts and looks for women as well. I would really like to know how men expect women to feel knowing that this is how men like to see women at times? I have asked variations of this question and have yet to see one man answer it.

 

This could be said for the modeling industry, VS catalog , men's magazines (FHM, GQ), the media, mainstream TV, movies, books (even those romance novels you say aren't the same - but aren't THEY setting an unrealistic expectation of men for performance, etc.) To say that porn does this? You might as well be fighting every form of media that exists, mainstream and XXX. They all try to do it. However, it is up to individual woman to be strong enough to say, I do things the way that I do them, my man loves me for who I am and I DON'T CARE about all that - and not let it bother you.

 

 

Regardless of what the id wants, it's not always healthy to feed it.

 

Stop the presses, you and I agree on something!!

 

And in a culture where porn is much more around then ever before, and much more hardcore then ever before; I question the health of it more then before. I think the misconception is that despite the fact that we do have selfish desires, we also live in a culture that promotes us to act on every little thing we want; and that is not healthy if you ask me.

 

You are finally starting to make some sense, this is also true - self-control is important - people who lack self-control often have problems in their lives because of it - again though - this does not just apply to porn, it applies to everything. Porn is still not the enemy in this scenario - a lack of self-control is.

 

Someone had asked me if I found Playboy "degrading". I don't think I exactly find it degrading. But there are still questions about setting an unrealistic expectation of women, for women; that most real women are never going to meet and that most real men wish women did meet.

 

I disagree with this - most men would be very intimidated if they were in a relationship with some of the beautiful women found in playboy. While a little fantasy is fine and dandy bring it home and they are longing, praying and begging for the comfort of the woman who loves them just the way they are.

 

I do understand why men like seeing women have sex. Or seeing naked women. But it can very realistically come with a price. I also do understand there are alot of gray areas. But it is very difficult to be a woman in this day and age. Men aren't picking u pa Playboy once a year, they might spend a couple times a week watching clips of 100 different women being called "sl*t", taking sperm on her face, and so on.

 

Once a year isn't realistic, if a man has any interest in porn it is certainly going to be more often than that.

 

Even a couple times a week for what an hour or two? That isn't excessive - and certainly doesn't agree with your previous statement that women have to "split" their time with porn. And if you believe it is truly split - where is your proof of that? Is this one man we are talking about? a few? or the majority? And what is your basis for that statement? Was there a study or survey done? I'd like to read it.

[tanbark813]

I don't think my comments are so far fetched. I don't think poorly of men. But I don't know what you expect women to think when there is an entire medium that we know men really love/enjoy that objectifies and degrades women for the soul pleasure of a man. Which also sets an impossible standard of sexual acts and looks for women as well. I would really like to know how men expect women to feel knowing that this is how men like to see women at times? I have asked variations of this question and have yet to see one man answer it. Would you like to address this instead of calling women names for being hurt that men like seeing women treated like nothing more the a hanky for them to get off in?

 

I would also like to point out that I never once called a man a name in this tread or any other. I do have huge trust issues with men over all but that is far from calling them degrading names. The fact that you throw around "judgmental bitches", is ironic. For the fact that the topic is about degrading women and for the fact that you are being quite judgmental yourself.

 

That post of mine was completely sarcastic. You're not getting straight answers from men--not anymore anyway--because YOU DON'T LISTEN. People have said time and time again in this thread and previous ones that porn is not how men view women, not all men like the same porn, and even women watch porn. But you still haven't grasped those concepts.

You make all these false assumptions about men and then get upset about them. It's ridiculous.

 

I admire the patience of the posters who are still posting lengthy responses.

[norajane]

Even a couple times a week for what an hour or two? That isn't excessive - and certainly doesn't agree with your previous statement that women have to "split" their time with porn. And if you believe it is truly split - where is your proof of that? Is this one man we are talking about? a few? or the majority? And what is your basis for that statement? Was there a study or survey done? I'd like to read it.

 

Porn statistics:

 

http://internet-filter-review.toptenreviews.com/internet-pornography-statistics.html

 

Interesting note on that page: United States porn revenues exceed the combined revenues of ABC, CBS, and NBC.

 

*Somebody* is watching a lot of porn if it's a $97B worldwide industry and $13.3B in the US in 2006.

 

Another interesting stat is that of all the internet searches typed in for the word "porn", 96% of those searches were done by men. So, I'd say that *somebody* who is watching and paying for porn is overwhelmingly men. Now, it could all be the same handful of guys making those 26.6million porn searches each year, but I'm thinking it's a much broader base than a handful of guys in their parents' basements.

 

And, according to the stats, Elmhurst, IL (Chicago suburb) is #1 in the country for porn searches.

 

And, just to add more context, hardcore porn titles released each year increased from 1300 in 1988 to 13,588 in 2005. So we aren't talking fluffy romantic porn, if there is such a thing.

 

The time stats are fascinating:

 

Every second, 372 internet users are typing adult search terms into search engines.

Every second, 28,258 internet users are viewing porn.

Every second, $3,075 is being spent on porn.

Every 39 minutes, a new porn video is being created in the US.

Edited March 25, 2008 by norajane

[norajane]

That post of mine was completely sarcastic. You're not getting straight answers from men--not anymore anyway--because YOU DON'T LISTEN. People have said time and time again in this thread and previous ones that porn is not how men view women, not all men like the same porn, and even women watch porn. But you still haven't grasped those concepts.

You make all these false assumptions about men and then get upset about them. It's ridiculous.

 

I admire the patience of the posters who are still posting lengthy responses.

 

Actually, there have been some men in this thread who have said that porn does reflect how men view women.

[tanbark813]

Actually, there have been some men in this thread who have said that porn does reflect how men view women.

 

Note the bolded word.

[tanbark813]

Another interesting stat is that of all the internet searches typed in for the word "porn", 96% of those searches were done by men.

 

First off, you left out, according to that chart, that searches for "XXX" was 50/50 and for "XXX Videos" was 64% men and 37% women.

 

Secondly, I highly doubt the accuracy of that chart anyway since I don't know how they would even be able to track the gender or age of the person doing the search. Location would be a piece of cake, but how do they know who's sitting at the keyboard??? Even if they tracked the search term to the IP address to the ISP to get the account information, all that does is tell you who's responsible for paying for the account. It doesn't tell you who's physically typing at the keyboard.

[MakeLemonade]

Porn statistics:

 

http://internet-filter-review.toptenreviews.com/internet-pornography-statistics.html

 

Interesting note on that page: United States porn revenues exceed the combined revenues of ABC, CBS, and NBC.

 

*Somebody* is watching a lot of porn if it's a $97B worldwide industry and $13.3B in the US in 2006.

 

Another interesting stat is that of all the internet searches typed in for the word "porn", 96% of those searches were done by men. So, I'd say that *somebody* who is watching and paying for porn is overwhelmingly men. Now, it could all be the same handful of guys making those 26.6million porn searches each year, but I'm thinking it's a much broader base than a handful of guys in their parents' basements.

 

And, according to the stats, Elmhurst, IL (Chicago suburb) is #1 in the country for porn searches.

 

And, just to add more context, hardcore porn titles released each year increased from 1300 in 1988 to 13,588 in 2005. So we aren't talking fluffy romantic porn, if there is such a thing.

 

Thanks, this is helpful - however - # of searches can seem like a lot but really - break it down - 100 searches a year (about 1 every 3 days) by 260,000 people is 26M, hardly a majority - there are well over 250M people in the US, may even be closer to 300 now. And if that number is international we are talking about an even smaller percentage. You also have to factor in percentage of men who are completely single - therefore have every right to look at as much porn as they feel like, kids sneaking around looking at it because their parents didn't put locks on the 'puter, etc.

 

I wanted to see some stats regarding men in committed relationships and time spent looking at porn - that is the statistic I was wondering if the OP had that she was basing those comments on. The money figure is staggering - I revert to my first post stating a better group to attack would be the greedy people making it rather than the men who are looking at it.

[MakeLemonade]

First off, you left out, according to that chart, that searches for "XXX" was 50/50 and for "XXX Videos" was 64% men and 37% women.

 

Secondly, I highly doubt the accuracy of that chart anyway since I don't know how they would even be able to track the gender or age of the person doing the search. Location would be a piece of cake, but how do they know who's sitting at the keyboard??? Even if they tracked the search term to the IP address to the ISP to get the account information, all that does is tell you who's responsible for paying for the account. It doesn't tell you who's physically typing at the keyboard.

 

I wondered this too....

[JerseyShortie]

my very good friend was gang raped at nine by men who were shown to be prolific porn users. now i don't know if there is any connection..but SHE despises porn. SHE feels it may have contributed to her rape. and because SHE feels that way (and she's the only one i'm interested in, not the scum who attacked her) then that's enough for me to see that porn can be horrifically damaging.

 

I can't say either with her case but there are statistics that alot of men that have participated in violents crimes and charged, had a proficient use of pornography. Obviously, that is not to say that all men that look at porn are violent.

 

Split implies equal time - are you implying that the majority of men who look at porn are spending the same amount or even close to the same amount of time with porn as they do with their W/SO? If that is your opinion, I strongly disagree.

 

Well, I think it is very possible that many men do split their alone time with their porn with their own SO. You said yourself that you didn't think a man looking at porn for a few hours every week is a big deal. How often to American couples have sex in a week? On average maybe 2-3 times a week. Using this as just as an example. If a man is spending a few hours a week looking at porn, as you stated wasn't a big deal, and only having sex with his own SO 2-3 times a week, that is pretty much spliting his time between the two.

 

This could be said for the modeling industry, VS catalog , men's magazines (FHM, GQ), the media, mainstream TV, movies, books (even those romance novels you say aren't the same - but aren't THEY setting an unrealistic expectation of men for performance, etc.) To say that porn does this?

 

I agree this happens in other industries. However, women aren't called names in a VS catalog or a number of other things that are done in porn, for one thing. For the other, my topic focused on pornography. Lets focus on what was orginally presented.

 

 

However, it is up to individual woman to be strong enough to say, I do things the way that I do them, my man loves me for who I am and I DON'T CARE about all that - and not let it bother you.

 

Interesting though. You relay on the woman being the one with the strength to say no to buying into a steretype but you don't require the same of men when it comes to porn and just saying "no". Which implies that you think a man's need for porn is greater then anything a woman might think or feel on the subject.

 

That's not to say I don't agree with you on some level. I do think women should be strong enough to have faith in themselves. I also think men should be strong enough to put the porn down. If you ask that of women, you in turn need to ask that of men as well.

 

 

 

You are finally starting to make some sense, this is also true - self-control is important - .... Porn is still not the enemy in this scenario - a lack of self-control is.

 

Firstly, I understand you disagree with me but your comment as far as saying I am finally making sense is unwarrented. I have never said such a thing to you despite not agreeing with your opinions.

 

Secondly, the topic of my thread has run along the lines of me thinking porn is degrading to women and the fact that men do posibly see women in this light at times. So as far as I am concerned, porn is the enemy.

 

I disagree with this - most men would be very intimidated if they were in a relationship with some of the beautiful women found in playboy. While a little fantasy is fine and dandy bring it home and they are longing, praying and begging for the comfort of the woman who loves them just the way they are.

 

I don't see how this is suppose to be a plus for any woman in a relationship. Basically what you are saying is he is with a woman he thinks is less beautiful because he doesn't feel as if he is good enough for a woman on the pedestal of Playboy. And as his woman, you honestly think that is something she should be happy and feel good about? I'm sorry but I don't know one woman, not one, that doesn't want their SO to think they are beautiful. So the end result is that he lives out what he really wants in a woman in the Playboy, and turns to the real life women that will give him the time of day. Completely disheartening for a woman or man if you ask me.

 

And if men want a woman to love him for who he is, why can't men do the same for the way women are with their mind and body? Porn seems to be a huge manipulation of thigns that most normal women aren't.

Once a year isn't realistic, if a man has any interest in porn it is certainly going to be more often than that.

 

I don't consider it realistic for a man to think his SO should feel secure and good in his porn use.

[MakeLemonade]

Well, I think it is very possible that many men do split their alone time with their porn with their own SO. You said yourself that you didn't think a man looking at porn for a few hours every week is a big deal. How often to American couples have sex in a week? On average maybe 2-3 times a week. Using this as just as an example. If a man is spending a few hours a week looking at porn, as you stated wasn't a big deal, and only having sex with his own SO 2-3 times a week, that is pretty much spliting his time between the two.

 

Is the only time a man is w/ his W/SO when they are having sex? If this was what you meant, that is what you should have said, splitting time implies time in general - doing everything, not just having sex. As in he chooses looking at porn over snuggling with his wife watching TV, helping her in the yard, talking, etc. In my house - this time spent together including sex would add up to way more than my hubby spends looking at porn, but he doesn't even spend more than an hour a week or so most of the time, I am not married to an addict - I am just as likely to find him looking at Google Earth or Together we Served or DIY or something else.

 

 

I agree this happens in other industries. However, women aren't called names in a VS catalog or a number of other things that are done in porn, for one thing. For the other, my topic focused on pornography. Lets focus on what was orginally presented.

 

Yes, MAAM Control much? I can almost see the wire-rimmed spectacles and pointer.....

 

 

Interesting though. You relay on the woman being the one with the strength to say no to buying into a steretype but you don't require the same of men when it comes to porn and just saying "no". Which implies that you think a man's need for porn is greater then anything a woman might think or feel on the subject.

 

I call on men to find a woman that is tolerant of their likes and dislikes and be with her - I am sure there are compromises being made on this all the time - it doesn't have to be all or nothing. I call on women to do the same. Or be strong, like I said.

 

Firstly, I understand you disagree with me but your comment as far as saying I am finally making sense is unwarrented. I have never said such a thing to you despite not agreeing with your opinions.

 

Grow a thicker skin would you? It was half-said tongue in cheek and regardless of the way it was said, it was a compliment. You really can't be sensitive like that on an open forum like this - go write entries in your journal or on a blog w/ comments closed if you don't want any sarcasm or dissenting remarks ever thrown at you.

 

Secondly, the topic of my thread has run along the lines of me thinking porn is degrading to women and the fact that men do posibly see women in this light at times. So as far as I am concerned, porn is the enemy.

 

I will reiterate - most men - rational, sane men who use porn as it is truly intended, for entertainment purposes - do not see women in this light, except the women in the porn itself. And if you don't think they should even see them that way when that is the way the women are portrayed by their own decision to sign a contract making them an actor in a porn film, well then I guess that is what you think, but I would never agree with that.

I don't see how this is suppose to be a plus for any woman in a relationship. Basically what you are saying is he is with a woman he thinks is less beautiful because he doesn't feel as if he is good enough for a woman on the pedestal of Playboy. And as his woman, you honestly think that is something she should be happy and feel good about? I'm sorry but I don't know one woman, not one, that doesn't want their SO to think they are beautiful. So the end result is that he lives out what he really wants in a woman in the Playboy, and turns to the real life women that will give him the time of day. Completely disheartening for a woman or man if you ask me.

 

And if men want a woman to love him for who he is, why can't men do the same for the way women are with their mind and body? Porn seems to be a huge manipulation of thigns that most normal women aren't.

 

And let the word-twisting begin - and you were doing so well....buzzz....thank you for playing anyway....

 

NO - what I was saying was that most men know how shallow and selfish those kind of women are, how demanding they can be, how spoiled they are because they always get their way with their looks, etc. etc. They want the real woman at home who loves them and who they love.

 

And as for the other quote - I don't either - all women want their men to think they are beautiful - we are all beautiful in our own ways. And it is not just about the outside appearance, it is both, and for alot of men the inside is more important than the outside (in a committed relationship). /quote]

 

It is really hard to debate with you sometimes JS, some of the stuff you say is just so "out there" and unreasonable. Someone must have really done a number on you. Maybe someday you will share your story with us.

[Trimmer]

But I don't know what you expect women to think when there is an entire medium that we know men really love/enjoy that objectifies and degrades women for the soul pleasure of a man. Which also sets an impossible standard of sexual acts and looks for women as well. I would really like to know how men expect women to feel knowing that this is how men like to see women at times? I have asked variations of this question and have yet to see one man answer it.

I can't think of a more civil way to put it other than: BS.

What women feel and expect as a group, as a population demographic, is interesting to discuss, but I don't let it paralyze me in my daily life. Instead, in my own life, I deal with women personally as unique individuals. As an individual, I 'expect' to show a woman, and for her to know by my actions, that I have no interest in degrading her, and that our relationship doesn't sway under the weight of what "some men" like to see.

I would be interested whether the OP is able to acknowledge that a man did answer her question earlier in this thread - speaking directly to my expectations of myself, and, per the OP's question, my expectations of my partner - and to hear her opinion of this answer.

Edited March 25, 2008 by Trimmer

[norajane]

Secondly, the topic of my thread has run along the lines of me thinking porn is degrading to women and the fact that men do posibly see women in this light at times. So as far as I am concerned, porn is the enemy.

I don't necessarily see porn as the enemy, per se. My personal view is that porn does reflect what men get turned on by in fantasy. It's fantasies brought to life. Meaning, even if porn did not exist, men would still be jerking off to those same images/acts in their heads because they find them erotic, a turn on.

 

The trouble is, porn brings those images to vivid color and action, and puts the content of men's fantasies out in the open for all to see. Meaning, men have always masturbated to these same thoughts they find erotic, but now, increasingly, we know what those thoughts are.

 

I get it that porn is, for the most part, idle masturbation fodder for men and doesn't necessarily reflect on their real-life relationships or respect for their long-term partners. However, I do think that porn does reflect men's sexual fantasies pretty well (or it wouldn't be enough of a turn on to be so prevalent) and, perhaps, how they might interact with, or wish to interact with, as OpenBook said, an "easy lay" should they have such an opportunity.

 

For me, the interesting things is that if you were to do the same with women's erotic fantasies, the content would be very different. It would not include so much humiliation and degradation of men. And since I'm sure I'll be asked to provide a study (), I've read a number of books that I referenced earlier in this thread which are essentially unedited compilations of women's and men's fantasies, and it's just not in there.

 

Yes, there are some dominatrix type fantasies, and some humiliation type fantasies where said women fantasizes about cuckhold sex where her wimpy husband who doesn't satisfy her has to watch...but, for the most part, that's not what the women's fantasies are about. Whereas, based on the 13,000 titles of hardcore porn released in 2005 (), it appears that men's turn-ons in fantasy are heavily focused on scenarios and acts that I would find a distinct turn-off. And would consider degrading (see my list earlier in this thread if you want to know the specific acts ().

 

Bottom line, to me, porn reveals that, yep, men and women think of sex and think of each other during sex in different ways, and it's not always appealing when I consider what men are thinking about. However, since I'd never know what they fantasize about if porn weren't there to show me in living color, just like men have no idea what I fantasize about, I'd rather leave men to their wanking privacy and not try to edit what they find erotic.

 

Nor do I choose to feel bad about it, because, with a partner, I have full control over what I choose to engage in sexually or not, and if I meet someone who would try to degrade or humiliate me in any way, well, he'd not get to the point where we're naked in the first place. If a man has that attitude toward women in general or in a sexual context, it comes out in a multitude of ways long before any nakedness were to happen.

[Starla]

norajane i have to agree with you...i choose not to be with a man who 'indulges' in porn...

 

there is a strong part of me that makes that decision based on my feeling that men who feel the need to resort to watching it to get their kicks (rather than being lovely to a RL woman, or achieving something on the sports field, anything), just isn't the kind of man i would like for myself!!

[Trimmer]

I get it that porn is, for the most part, idle masturbation fodder for men and doesn't necessarily reflect on their real-life relationships or respect for their long-term partners. However, I do think that porn does reflect men's sexual fantasies pretty well (or it wouldn't be enough of a turn on to be so prevalent) and, perhaps, how they might interact with, or wish to interact with, as OpenBook said, an "easy lay" should they have such an opportunity.

 

For me, the interesting things is that if you were to do the same with women's erotic fantasies, the content would be very different. It would not include so much humiliation and degradation of men. And since I'm sure I'll be asked to provide a study (), I've read a number of books that I referenced earlier in this thread which are essentially unedited compilations of women's and men's fantasies, and it's just not in there.

 

Yes, there are some dominatrix type fantasies, and some humiliation type fantasies where said women fantasizes about cuckhold sex where her wimpy husband who doesn't satisfy her has to watch...but, for the most part, that's not what the women's fantasies are about. Whereas, based on the 13,000 titles of hardcore porn released in 2005 (), it appears that men's turn-ons in fantasy are heavily focused on scenarios and acts that I would find a distinct turn-off. And would consider degrading (see my list earlier in this thread if you want to know the specific acts ().

 

Bottom line, to me, porn reveals that, yep, men and women think of sex and think of each other during sex in different ways, and it's not always appealing when I consider what men are thinking about. However, since I'd never know what they fantasize about if porn weren't there to show me in living color, just like men have no idea what I fantasize about, I'd rather leave men to their wanking privacy and not try to edit what they find erotic.

 

Nor do I choose to feel bad about it, because, with a partner, I have full control over what I choose to engage in sexually or not, and if I meet someone who would try to degrade or humiliate me in any way, well, he'd not get to the point where we're naked in the first place. If a man has that attitude toward women in general or in a sexual context, it comes out in a multitude of ways long before any nakedness were to happen.

I completely understand and concur with your statements here. And while much of your philosophy is resonant with the OP's concerns, I find the difference is in the bolded statement.

 

While one may have concerns and opinions about porn in general, specific types of degrading porn, the general societal effects of porn, and the way a certain sub-class of "some men" use porn, or how it reflects their views (or, alternately, how their views affect the type of porn to which they are drawn...) when it comes right down to how we live our lives, we interact with people one at a time - as individual, unique human beings.

 

So, while the world is screwed up in a lot of ways - sometimes notably by certain groups of people - and I'll admit that it can causes me a kind of a 'societal' anguish when I contemplate it, I don't carry that burden into my relationships with individuals.

 

The only reason I even involved myself in this thread was not to denigrate the OP's concerns or opinions about porn in society (some of which I understand, and even agree with - I don't personally see the allure of degrading women in any context, porn or otherwise...), but rather because I see her extending that societal concern into her personal interactions. "Because of porn, I can't trust men," and "The guy out in public with his family is just waiting to go home and disrespect his wife and family...."

 

It's sad to think that there may be men "out there" who can't be trusted, and who do have degrading views of women, and the existence of some kinds of porn may be a reflection of that.

 

But it's sadder still to take that reasoning so far that you assume every man you run across in your daily life is one of "those men," and that this becomes an impediment to creating an understanding relationship on an individual basis.

 

I usually stay out of porn threads - dead horse, meet club... There's just a very personal and painful texture to the OP's concerns, which she refuses to address - and I accept that's her prerogative. That's the angle I find interesting about this particular discussion: how can we thrive, how can we separate from our daily lives our anguish over the state of the world "out there" - whether it's porn, violence, drugs, war, famine, child abuse, spousal abuse, human abuse, etc.

 

I believe it's by treasuring our relationships with individuals as unique, and entering into them honestly and with open eyes, but unburdened by the stereotypes, anxieties, and fears that seem so prevalent "out there."

 

We see the world as we do, and we try to heal the world in whatever way we can, but we live our lives among individuals.

[Starla]

oohh must add to my post...*I* love intelligent men, who spend time learning, and studying, and trying to make their lives better through education...that is the kind of man i would want!! that's a real man...the kind of 'man' (i use that term loosely) who watches porn is just no kind of man at all.

[tanbark813]

oohh must add to my post...*I* love intelligent men, who spend time learning, and studying, and trying to make their lives better through education...that is the kind of man i would want!! that's a real man...the kind of 'man' (i use that term loosely) who watches porn is just no kind of man at all.

 

 

Oh jeez.. I guarantee you that plenty of intelligent men watch porn.

[MakeLemonade]

oohh must add to my post...*I* love intelligent men, who spend time learning, and studying, and trying to make their lives better through education...that is the kind of man i would want!! that's a real man...the kind of 'man' (i use that term loosely) who watches porn is just no kind of man at all.

 

I bet he'd be all sexy too, with his ink-stained short sleeved white dress shirt and protractor in his back pocket. Black high-water slacks and hopefully some velcro-strapped tennies with tall white gym socks! Drool.

[norajane]

norajane i have to agree with you...i choose not to be with a man who 'indulges' in porn...

 

there is a strong part of me that makes that decision based on my feeling that men who feel the need to resort to watching it to get their kicks (rather than being lovely to a RL woman, or achieving something on the sports field, anything), just isn't the kind of man i would like for myself!!

 

Actually, I don't avoid men who indulge in porn. As I said, I'd rather leave them to their privacy in terms of what they do when they're masturbating, just as I'd like them to extend the same courtesy to me. As long as our sex life and the way he treats me as a person works well, I don't care to edit their masturbation habits.

 

If it's too much porn, and not enough ME-time, though, that's a problem. But I've dumped men who spend way more time on the sports field than they do with me, too.

[norajane]

I believe it's by treasuring our relationships with individuals as unique, and entering into them honestly and with open eyes, but unburdened by the stereotypes, anxieties, and fears that seem so prevalent "out there."

 

We see the world as we do, and we try to heal the world in whatever way we can, but we live our lives among individuals.

 

Exactly. Develop a good relationship with your honey, and these fears and concerns melt away.

[Starla]

lol i happen to find geeks very attractive!!

 

norajane i see what you mean!!

[ketostix]

I know I'm new here and I havenb't read the replies, but hopefully I can say my thinking on porn. Well I don't really care that much for porn itself because I always heard it was degrading to women. But a woman acting and looking like a porn staar I don't think is degrading at all. It's exactly what I want. I'm very visual. Too much talking and not knowing if you're going to have sex or not is boring. I like a girl to look sexy and act sexy and freaky. That's what makes me attracted to her and to like her. So I don't think a girl acting like a pornstar is a bad thing at all. I think it's great. But I like a lady in street and a freak in the sheets. Is this a good thing or not?

[JerseyShortie]

That really doesn't address the discussion ketostix.

[Trimmer]

I put a lot of thought into my posts 111 and 114, and was wondering if the OP had any comments on them, especially as 111 directly answered a question that she felt hadn't been addressed by any of the men here.

[Trialbyfire]

What I don't understand is why anyone would want to hold themselves up to a bar that they don't respect or agree with. No one makes anyone do anything they're not willing to do. A simple and assertive "NO" is all it takes, unless the guy uses physical force. In that case, it's a criminal offense and is punishable by law.

[mental_traveller]

Is it? Is porn a reflection on how men see women? How they want women to be? Since men often call it the ultimate in "fantasy" and there seems to be a pedestal of sexuality and attractiveness pornstars are put on.

 

I tend to struggle with this issue but often think that porn is an outlet for men on how they really want to see women treated deep in their heart. I tend to find alot of porn, most porn, to be something that treats the woman pretty inhumanly. As if she is only an object with the appropiate holes there for the soul pleasure of men where her thoughts and feelings and even her own pleasure don't count for much. It sucks seeing men enjoy an entire medium that pretty much objectifies and uses women. I think porn can be a reflection of the general lack of respect for women. Even men that have families, wives, daughters, etc etc etc....don't always aid in respecting women because honestly, we all know most men view pornography.

 

Doesn't the same apply to men in porn? There are videos where men are portrayed getting gang raped in prison by gay men, or tied up and whipped (or worse) by women. I don't see how porn objectifies or degrades women any more so than men. In fact the women earn more than male performers.

 

Also, I think you are just reading way too much into this. If for example a man enjoys watching some girl get gangbanged (or some other "degrading" thing) in a porn video, all that means is he thinks its hot. Some women also find that hot - are they sexist too? The viewers opinion on it is only in relation to the sexual performance. Enjoying seeing someone degraded in a sexual fashion does not mean you think that they *as a person* are bad, or inferior, or any other negative connotation. It just means you find it hot to watch them getting slammed while being called names (or whatever variant you go for). Plenty of people like being treated a certain way in bed, that they would never accept being treated in normal life. Think of the CEO or politician who likes being tied up, or the woman who wants her hair pulled or to get spanked by her bf while he talks dirty to her. The sexual realm is almost totally separate from the way people act in the rest of their lives. Because of that, IMO you cannot draw any conclusions at all about people's attitudes, just by looking at what gets them hot.

 

So in conclusion, I disagree 100% with what you are saying. Porn is not sexist, because there are examples of every type of person being "degraded". Secondly, it is only abusive/degrading in a sexual context, not to the person as an individual - the woman who gets called names or treated "bad" on the video is the one who is the centre of attention and who walks away with by far the biggest paycheque out of all the performers. Third, how people act sexually has no bearing at all on their views towards people in a non-sexual context. So basically, a man can like the idea of calling a woman a bitch and slapping her ass in bed, and respect her and love her. And vice versa.