blair08 Posted March 24, 2008 Posted March 24, 2008 There needs to be a smiley on here that shows a dead horse being beaten repeatedly. :laugh: Well IMO, (and I didn't read all of the threads but I do think it CAN, have a reflecon on how men see women. I think it dpends though. I think alot of how men see women has alot more to do with their upbringing than on porn. However, I'm sure porn can play a role for some men but to an already distubed or heavily issued person to begin with perhaps. I think if men,or womenforat matter have beeen brought up to see the opposite sex in a different light that has alot do do with why they may feel the way they do. I think too, SOMETIMES these producers of porn (yes it brings in money) but they are the ones who may view women in a different light and therefore go the route they do with some of the porn pics and vids. Its one thing to portray a woman and a man making love nude and doing different positions or using toys but quite another to show a man literally sh*ttin on a woman. Or having a woman get it with a horse. JMO of course.
MakeLemonade Posted March 24, 2008 Posted March 24, 2008 :laugh: Well IMO, (and I didn't read all of the threads but I do think it CAN, have a reflecon on how men see women. I think it dpends though. I think alot of how men see women has alot more to do with their upbringing than on porn. However, I'm sure porn can play a role for some men but to an already distubed or heavily issued person to begin with perhaps. I think if men,or womenforat matter have beeen brought up to see the opposite sex in a different light that has alot do do with why they may feel the way they do. I think too, SOMETIMES these producers of porn (yes it brings in money) but they are the ones who may view women in a different light and therefore go the route they do with some of the porn pics and vids. Its one thing to portray a woman and a man making love nude and doing different positions or using toys but quite another to show a man literally sh*ttin on a woman. Or having a woman get it with a horse. JMO of course. I don't think there is anyone on this thread, advocating this kind of stuff - . There is a very, very small percentage of the pop that finds those particular "porn" genres arousing - I put quotes around it because that is really not anything I even think of when I think of porn and I hesitate to even call it that. It is just GROSS. Any slut $hitters or Horse f^ckers out there? Speak now and let us hear your side of the story.
blair08 Posted March 24, 2008 Posted March 24, 2008 I don't think there is anyone on this thread, advocating this kind of stuff - . There is a very, very small percentage of the pop that finds those particular "porn" genres arousing - I put quotes around it because that is really not anything I even think of when I think of porn and I hesitate to even call it that. It is just GROSS. Any slut $hitters or Horse f^ckers out there? Speak now and let us hear your side of the story. Great! I wasn't addressing YOU or what kind of porn you like or don't like. I was meaning in general. There are some "decent" porn and not so decent porn out there. It was used as an example. And IMO , yes diffrerent types can reflect how some people see others.
MakeLemonade Posted March 24, 2008 Posted March 24, 2008 Great! I wasn't addressing YOU or what kind of porn you like or don't like. I was meaning in general. There are some "decent" porn and not so decent porn out there. It was used as an example. And IMO , yes diffrerent types can reflect how some people see others. I know you weren't - it was just too good to pass up commenting on. The OP fails to make these classifications - she won't even address the question asked of her as to what she does & does not find degrading. We don't DESERVE it because we keep side-stepping all of her questions supposedly (my translation: we don't tell her what she wants to hear) That was kind of why I wanted to highlight it. I completely understand your meaning and I am right there witcha. Some stuff - sexy, other stuff - eh, yet other stuff -ICK! yet still other stuff - OH MY EYES, MY EYES, I'm blind, I'm scarred for life!! The last one involves the excrement & farm animals as well as the EXTREME cases of degradation and violence. JMHO. Ultimately it is to each their own - if my hubby liked to look at the latter subject matter, I probably wouldn't be with him, but I have no problem with what he does look at, sometimes I look at it with him and NO he doesn't look at women in R/L in the same light as he looks at those in porn. Especially yours truly, and that is all that matters to me.
blair08 Posted March 24, 2008 Posted March 24, 2008 I know you weren't - it was just too good to pass up commenting on. The OP fails to make these classifications - she won't even address the question asked of her as to what she does & does not find degrading. We don't DESERVE it because we keep side-stepping all of her questions supposedly (my translation: we don't tell her what she wants to hear) That was kind of why I wanted to highlight it. I completely understand your meaning and I am right there witcha. Some stuff - sexy, other stuff - eh, yet other stuff -ICK! yet still other stuff - OH MY EYES, MY EYES, I'm blind, I'm scarred for life!! The last one involves the excrement & farm animals as well as the EXTREME cases of degradation and violence. JMHO. Ultimately it is to each their own - if my hubby liked to look at the latter subject matter, I probably wouldn't be with him, but I have no problem with what he does look at, sometimes I look at it with him and NO he doesn't look at women in R/L in the same light as he looks at those in porn. Especially yours truly, and that is all that matters to me. Thanks, I understanding what you're saying too. Yes, there is some porn out there that is just awful! I think it can be a money thing for producers, kind of like a "shock" value too, for some because they know some people will pay and watch that kind of thing because it is shocking. I also believe the people who make those kinds of films might possilby have some issues against women to begin with.
Author JerseyShortie Posted March 24, 2008 Author Posted March 24, 2008 The OP fails to make these classifications - she won't even address the question asked of her as to what she does & does not find degrading. Excuse me but I did address that question and even used one example about the thing where guys like to ejaculate on a woman's face. Please reference my post again. "....and NO he doesn't look at women in R/L in the same light as he looks at those in porn. But is that necessarily a good thing? Or even a healthy thing? I'm not 100% sure that it is.
MakeLemonade Posted March 24, 2008 Posted March 24, 2008 Excuse me but I did address that question and even used one example about the thing where guys like to ejaculate on a woman's face. Please reference my post again. Wow, one example, really put yourself out there didn't ya? Is that really that awful anyway? It's supposed to be good for your hair and skin ya know? In all seriousness - I didn't miss it, just forgot about it - thanks for refreshing my memory. A few more might be helpful regardless. But is that necessarily a good thing? Or even a healthy thing? I'm not 100% sure that it is. I think it is a good thing. He lives in the real world, I am a real woman and he loves me, loves making love to me in whatever form that may take. Yes, when we have a particularly crazy night and he comes on me, my face, wherever, ties me up, whatever the case may be, he may be thinking - damn, I feel just like a porn-star. But he isn't thinking I am a porn-star - in his eyes I am much, much more than that and infinitely better than a chick on a screen could ever be.
fral945 Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 Wow, one example, really put yourself out there didn't ya? Is that really that awful anyway? It's supposed to be good for your hair and skin ya know? In all seriousness - I didn't miss it, just forgot about it - thanks for refreshing my memory. A few more might be helpful regardless. MakeLemonade, I think we actually got an answer (sort of) from her: I consider most things in porn degrading or about power JerseyShortie, unless you care to elaborate, the best I can assume is anything that shows a woman naked is degrading in your eyes. Here's an easier question since you won't respond with specifics: Is there any porn you don't consider degrading?
Author JerseyShortie Posted March 25, 2008 Author Posted March 25, 2008 I think it is a good thing. He lives in the real world, I am a real woman and he loves me, loves making love to me in whatever form that may take. Yes, when we have a particularly crazy night and he comes on me, my face, wherever, ties me up, whatever the case may be, he may be thinking - damn, I feel just like a porn-star. But he isn't thinking I am a porn-star - in his eyes I am much, much more than that and infinitely better than a chick on a screen could ever be. I'm sure that is all true. However, this does nothing to address the previous questions I orginally brought up. I am sure lots of men out there love their women. But there are also alot of men that like to see women used. So the question remains: Is porn a reflection of how men see women at times? And if so, what does that say about how men view women? How are women, as a gender suppose to feel seeing their own man get off at other women being degraded? The question is not: do you have great kinky sex with the man that loves you. We all live in the real world, however, men's fantasy world seems to be one that depicts women in a negative but sexual manner. And I question men's respect for women that can claim he really does respect women but loves watching "Hot College B*tches Get Ejaculated On". There is a huge contradiction to that. JerseyShortie, unless you care to elaborate, the best I can assume is anything that shows a woman naked is degrading in your eyes. No, I don't consider anything that shows a woman naked degrading. But the medium of what porn is, can be rather degrading to women many times.
fral945 Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 No, I don't consider anything that shows a woman naked degrading. But the medium of what porn is, can be rather degrading to women many times. Yet again, you refuse to answer a question. Why can't you answer any of my direct questions?
tanbark813 Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 I think the more important question is: With women in the world like JS, who make false assumptions about men and then elaborate on them until the complete and total boredom of every poster on LS, how can we men, as a gender, possibly cope with the obvious disrespect for our gender? I mean, surely, if we make a plethora of false assumptions and ignore all dissenting feedback we can then write post after post after post of meaningless drivel in the hopes that, if nothing else, we can assuage our own insecurities for but a brief moment. I mean, if JS thinks so poorly of men because of her own retarded assumptions then that, obviously, must mean that all women in the entire world are evil, judgmental bitches. It's all coming together now.
Woggle Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 Porn is a sometimes a good alternative to real women who can be nothing but stress most of the time.
cutegirl Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 Just curious JerseyShortie, would you get mad if your SO looked at Playboy or no? Just wondering. Also, about guys cumming on the girls face in porno flicks, I actually don't find that degrading. I don't know why, I just don't. I guess it's only degrading if you make it so. It's only ejaculate, it's not like it's poop or anything, I don't see why it's so repulsive.
shadowofman Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 I'm not really into degrading people sexually, but it is fun to fantasize about it. It is a way of seeing the edge of what I would consider inappropriate behavior. I am not into domination normally, but I can get into that sort of mood. Generally, I am just into objectification. Objectification of men and women. It goes along with my lack of a sapiosexual orientation along with my high promiscuousness. Ejaculate on a face is hot. I don't find it degrading at all, whether on a woman's face or mine.
Cobra_X30 Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 JS, Are you sure that Porn isn't more about how men wish to see themselves?
OpenBook Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 In all actuality - Porn is a reflection of how the porn industry sees women, not necessarily the men who look at it. They have a "vision" and they transfer those visions to film. Or maybe the "degrading" aspects (towards women) in porn are a reflection of how men really feel about "easy" women. Since by nature they're competitive hunters, they instinctively know that the worthy prey is the prey that is hard to catch. But since they're always "sitting on go" about sex (they'll do it anytime, anywhere, with anyone), of course they'll "shoot" the easy targets, just for the thrill of it. But they know it's a very brief, fleeting, short-term thrill. And it doesn't compare to the high they get when they catch the quarry that could not be caught. IRL it's been my consistent experience that if I don't give it up, men treat me like gold. But if I act like an easy slut, I get treated very disrespectfully by men.
Woggle Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 I also think that some porn and other things degrading towards women are a release for men. If a woman in your life is giving you crap you can indulge in a violent fantasy and feel powerful again. That is what misogynistic does to me. When I am in a mood I just sing along to some womanhating tunes and I feel so much better.
shadowofman Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 Then of course we could be generalizing. To continue this trend, maybe men are "degrading" women because it's a rebellion against the current structure of gender equality. Let's not forget that for thousands of years, women were basically the property of men, and men set the rules of sex and relationships. Maybe men are protesting against this. Arguably women now have the upper hand in relationships even if they don't choose to use this power. Maybe it's monogamy, romanticism, feelings of emasculation that drive this fantasy. All that said, I am just a guy that likes girls that like kinky sex. If she plays hard to get, I lose interest. If we have sex on the first date, I show more attention. Objectification, objectification, objectification! Do not confuse this with degradation! Speaking of tunes....you need to listen to Deep!
Taramere Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 (edited) I think the more important question is: With women in the world like JS, who make false assumptions about men and then elaborate on them until the complete and total boredom of every poster on LS... To be fair to JS, quite a few people have put questions to her or made comments that she's responding to. am sure lots of men out there love their women. But there are also alot of men that like to see women used. So the question remains: Is porn a reflection of how men see women at times? And if so, what does that say about how men view women? I've heard that gay porn can be feature a lot of talk and action that, if it took place in a non-sexual, non-consensual context, would probably be classed as degrading and abusive by most people. Does that say anything about how gay men see themselves? I also recall watching a documentary about dominatrices on tv. I switched off when it showed one male client being told to crawl over to the toilet bowl and lick it clean because I could feel my gagging reflex getting into action...but before that, I recall one of the dommes saying that she had a black male client who liked to role-play being a plantation slave being whipped. The human id doesn't care about political correctness or what is in people's best interests. If your id wants something, it doesn't care about your health or best interests, let alone anyone else's. It's drawn to things that are, in everyday life, condemned as being sleazy, wrong, unacceptable or in some way taboo. Not surprising, given that it's in conflict with our inner authoritarian. When we laugh at a sick joke, that's maybe just our id reminding us of its existence. Reminding us that we're not the completely sensible, well behaved adults that we're under so much pressure to be in daily life. I'm quite fond of sexual role play, provided it's with someone I trust, because I can temporarily "become" that role I'm playing. Objectify myself in a way that in the normal course of events I wouldn't do.... then dissociate from it afterwards. That's one of my ways of letting the id enjoy itself with someone else's id. Not so dissimilar to dark humour. One boyfriend couldn't cope (I don't think he could, anyway) with seeing me "become" a different person in role play. When we split up, he portrayed a picture of me being overly dependent, intellectually limited - in comparison to him, at least. Not the bright and sparky woman he felt he should be with. The one he had formerly seemed to think I was, until he started fixating on one or two of those bedroom women - none of whom, I'll admit, were too interested in developing their brains or making sparkling conversation. I think he started to think that's who I was; disregarding who I am and what I've done in my life. Failing to leave the role plays in the bedroom. Being something of an exception perhaps (hopefully) to that "men are so great at compartmentalising" theory. Or else he just compartmentalised me with those role play women. It was very hurtful, and do you know what? I'm not sure his response was so different from the woman who starts seeing her boyfriend/husband in terms of his porn use, rather than accepting that that's just something he does when he wants playtime for his id. We're often very good at rationalising our own methods of getting instant gratification, but a little more judgemental (or maybe just afraid/uncomprehending) when it comes to other people's methods. Edited March 25, 2008 by Taramere
fral945 Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 I think the more important question is: With women in the world like JS, who make false assumptions about men and then elaborate on them until the complete and total boredom of every poster on LS, how can we men, as a gender, possibly cope with the obvious disrespect for our gender? I mean, surely, if we make a plethora of false assumptions and ignore all dissenting feedback we can then write post after post after post of meaningless drivel in the hopes that, if nothing else, we can assuage our own insecurities for but a brief moment. tanbark, lol, this thread would have been a lot shorter if she would just answer straightforward questions instead of rambling on about how terrible and degrading porn is. I've asked her 2 direct questions and gotten zero direct answers. I only hope she represents a small segment of the female population.
Emilio Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 hey so just a point on this porn thing and im a guy just to let you know but umm girls with fake boobs are not as attractive as girls with real boobs let me put it to you this way-at the bottom ugly breasts-fake but beautiful breasts(if they actually go with something nice, not triple F's or something like that) and then at the top girls with real and beautiful boobs-- im not trying to be a jerk or put women down but i think this is how guys see fake boobs because we think that anyone even guys can get fake breasts and we real want a girl with nice boobs but all natural because those are the best --dont mean to offend just thought id shed some light on to a post from way early before on guys liking fake boobs
Starla Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 i really don't believe porn is a reflection on how men see women..men live in the real world, they must come into contact with smart, sassy, successful and yes, naturally beautiful women every day. i would guess that they use it simply to get turned on - but i also think continued and prolonged use can be damaging. not just for how it may impact upon how the viewer may eventually come to see women, but that he may be fulfilling a need he is not getting, or working to get, in a healthy relationship.
Pyro Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 I also think that some porn and other things degrading towards women are a release for men. If a woman in your life is giving you crap you can indulge in a violent fantasy and feel powerful again. That is what misogynistic does to me. When I am in a mood I just sing along to some womanhating tunes and I feel so much better. So you are saying that its ok for you to do it since you are giving an excuse for it, but if any woman does that then she is the spawn of satan?
Author JerseyShortie Posted March 25, 2008 Author Posted March 25, 2008 (edited) Yet again, you refuse to answer a question. Why can't you answer any of my direct questions? lol, this thread would have been a lot shorter if she would just answer straightforward questions instead of rambling on about how terrible and degrading porn is. I've asked her 2 direct questions and gotten zero direct answers. I only hope she represents a small segment of the female population. I have posed many questions to you and the other men here and have been talked around,deflected and not answered. So these statements coming from you are hugely hypocritical. It seems to be very difficult to get a straight answer from quite a few of the guys. Instead, I am attempted to be turned into the topic, and deflected from the orginal questions I have been asking all along. When you decide to address the questions I asked directly, I will answer yours. Sound fair? As for my "rambling", I can be wordy but I feel my points are valid. And I think a few others also see some valid points here to varying degrees. As for hoping I represent a small segment of the female population, that is fine. I however in turn wish men that watched porn was a small segment of the population myself. Unfortunetly, for alot of women out there that love a man and have one in their life, their time with him is often split between a medium that objectifies and can often degrade women. But somehow, we are suppose to think that men really value and respect women. Please tell me how that is suppose to work? When one actions says something competely different. "..... how can we men, as a gender, possibly cope with the obvious disrespect for our gender." If you feel men are disrespected in certain ways, please create another thread where we can discuss that. This thread is about the ways women are disrespected. I would appreciate some sensitivy and aknowledgement of these questions. Because a response that tries to make the subject turn into how men think the are disrespected does nothing to help or talk about the issue with women being disrespected. This is another deflection to not address the real issue. I mean, if JS thinks so poorly of men because of her own retarded assumptions then that, obviously, must mean that all women in the entire world are evil, judgmental bitches. It's all coming together now. I don't think my comments are so far fetched. I don't think poorly of men. But I don't know what you expect women to think when there is an entire medium that we know men really love/enjoy that objectifies and degrades women for the soul pleasure of a man. Which also sets an impossible standard of sexual acts and looks for women as well. I would really like to know how men expect women to feel knowing that this is how men like to see women at times? I have asked variations of this question and have yet to see one man answer it. Would you like to address this instead of calling women names for being hurt that men like seeing women treated like nothing more the a hanky for them to get off in? I would also like to point out that I never once called a man a name in this tread or any other. I do have huge trust issues with men over all but that is far from calling them degrading names. The fact that you throw around "judgmental bitches", is ironic. For the fact that the topic is about degrading women and for the fact that you are being quite judgmental yourself. What do you mean by this Cobra? Please elaborate. I am interested in what you have to say. I also think that some porn and other things degrading towards women are a release for men. If a woman in your life is giving you crap you can indulge in a violent fantasy and feel powerful again. That is what misogynistic does to me. When I am in a mood I just sing along to some womanhating tunes and I feel so much better. That isn't a release. that is feeding your already negative feelings and emotions until you have to feed it again. You don't resolve bitterness and negative feelings with more bitterness and negative feelings. If you need to indugle in a violent fantasy to feel powerful then I think that is something you really need to look into on a personal level. It was very hurtful, and do you know what? I'm not sure his response was so different from the woman who starts seeing her boyfriend/husband in terms of his porn use, rather than accepting that that's just something he does when he wants playtime for his id. We're often very good at rationalising our own methods of getting instant gratification, but a little more judgemental (or maybe just afraid/uncomprehending) when it comes to other people's methods. Interesting post Taramere. I can understand this on some level. I don't think your ex was right at all to judge you for being different in the bedroom. But I consider things done between two people that care for each other vastly different then someone sitting infront of a computer supporting and getting enjoyment at someone else being used. Espeically the volume of which men spend looking at porn today. It is more then any point in history. I can't stress thsi enough: I think there is a huge difference between things that are done between partners, and things that are done between people who could care less about each other. It would be the same as a man taking his wife out to an expensive restuarant compared to a man taking a woman out on the first date to an expensive restuarant. The wife isn't using him, it's quite possible that the woman on the first date is. That is the distiction that I think plays a major part in sex. And I think people are influnced by what they see. Otherwise, porn wouldn't be needed to be made more shocking and hardcore to produce the same results. I also will say, I still question how men expect women to feel overall knowingly seeing him enjoy women being used and shown such as women are protrayed in porn? Regardless of what the id wants, it's not always healthy to feed it. And in a culture where porn is much more around then ever before, and much more hardcore then ever before; I question the health of it more then before. I think the misconception is that despite the fact that we do have selfish desires, we also live in a culture that promotes us to act on every little thing we want; and that is not healthy if you ask me. Over all though Taramere, I did found your post to make good points and interesting ones from a different view point. I just don't agree with them all. Someone had asked me if I found Playboy "degrading". I don't think I exactly find it degrading. But there are still questions about setting an unrealistic expectation of women, for women; that most real women are never going to meet and that most real men wish women did meet. It isn't on nearly the same level as a woman taking sperm on her face but there are still issues with it. And I don't think I have seen to many playboys but I don't think it refers to women in degrogatory names. I do understand why men like seeing women have sex. Or seeing naked women. But it can very realistically come with a price. I also do understand there are alot of gray areas. But it is very difficult to be a woman in this day and age. Men aren't picking u pa Playboy once a year, they might spend a couple times a week watching clips of 100 different women being called "sl*t", taking sperm on her face, and so on. Edited March 25, 2008 by JerseyShortie
Starla Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 hi jersey...i see where you are coming from - personally i despise porn. i don't believe the men who watch it view ALL women as sluts...yet i can't quite understand how men who watch it don't connect the woman they see on the screen to the fact that she is someone's daughter, sister, loved one. she isn't an object there for their gratification..she's a human being, and by watching porn they are contributing to an industry which objectifies human beings. i know i could never be with a man who thinks it's ok...she is someone's daughter. my very good friend was gang raped at nine by men who were shown to be prolific porn users. now i don't know if there is any connection..but SHE despises porn. SHE feels it may have contributed to her rape. and because SHE feels that way (and she's the only one i'm interested in, not the scum who attacked her) then that's enough for me to see that porn can be horrifically damaging.
Recommended Posts