Anyone else feel this way?

[TechDude]

If I didn't know any better I'd swear you were married to me. Because I used to (and to some extent still do) have the same reaction when my wife wanted to talk about the things that were negative in our lives.

Join the club.

 

That all changed 3 weeks ago when I found in appropriate IM's. Talk about a real EYE opener. Since that time we have talked more about where we were, where we are and where we want to be. I acknowledged that my resistance to openly communicate was a catalyst for the IM's.

Another example of the kind of wake up call "we" seem to need.

 

I keep telling my wife that had she come to me and said "We are having problems and if you don't want to talk about it, I don't want to be here".

Are you sure she didn't, but you weren't hearing it?

 

I might have been more open to talking about our problems and listing to her "side" of things. But to be honest, I don't know if I would have been or not. If she would have said, we talk or I leave I think I would have been willing to listen.

I wonder. Would we have been willing to listen? I'm not so sure we (or I) would have.

[Lookingforward]

Join the club.

 

Another example of the kind of wake up call "we" seem to need.

 

Are you sure she didn't, but you weren't hearing it?

 

I wonder. Would we have been willing to listen? I'm not so sure we (or I) would have.

 

Sometimes we listen but we don't HEAR

[Lizzie60]

You just described my first ex...

 

I don't want to discourage you but I doubt very much that he'll change.

 

I lost patience and left.. after 18 years.. I just couldn't take it anymore..

 

I don't believe in Individual Therapy when the partner has the problem. What will that change in your relationship?

 

Mine was like that.. he thought all therapists were idiots..he was the only 'smart' one on the planet.. and he wasn't even THAT intelligent.. and that's often the case..

 

To be honest, I see no other way than to kick him out.. if, after a VERY SERIOUS TALK, he doesn't even try to change...

 

You will only 'drained' yourself out of your self-esteem... your confidence.. and your independance..

 

Leave now... I've never been so happy since I left this 'dumb' a$$.

[Rainbow Gem]

My H likes to do this. I will bring something up and he will do the blame game and bring up something else totally unrelated. This strategy works really well as it gets me off topic and flustered and all of sudden we are not on what I wanted to talk about.

 

What I do is tell him that he has a good point and I would like to talk about it, but first, let's finish this other topic. He doesn't like it and I sometimes have to repeat myself, but I know that he is trying to distract me and it really doesn't matter how I present my ideas. He feels too threatened and doesn't like conflict.

 

I would encourage you to search out IC and there are many agencies out there that have sliding fee scales. He is robbing you of your self-esteem. And yes, there are two sides to every story, but if you feel like you cannot even talk about problems in your relationship he is trying to control you and avoid any potential bad news.

 

Maybe you can try writing him a letter? Write one that gets it all out and everything and then send him a second or third version that doesn't have the weight of all of your anger and frustration. That way, you can get out what you need to without him interrupting. It doesn't mean that he will hear it or even apply what you say but at least you have it out.

 

Good luck!

[luvstarved]

This guy gets around! Yeah, I married him, too. And struggling like a tiger for years to improve the relationship...because I do believe he is not just an a88hole...but he is a pretty good imitation of one at times!!

 

I sure don't see it as conflict avoidance on his part. Oh, no, he is only to happy to create conflict, as long as the upshot is to shine the spotlight on someone else's failings.

 

It is not a simple thing, either. It isn't some pat psychological "thing" that makes him this way. I agree with Mr Lucky that for most guys it is legacy stuff. The way they were raised...sometimes too much love, attention and "validation" (as in my H's case) and sometimes not enough.

 

Either way, much of it is about preservation of self-image. At all costs. I have observed my H so long and so carefully that occasionally, when I can, I find the whole thing comical and predictable. Those are the good days.

 

I try not to buy into his incorrect assertions of blame and shame and his own Captain America-ness. I succeed at that more and more as time goes by and in many cases am able to do the right thing, and not join in with the anger. He's wrong, he's delusional, he's not fooling anyone, let him pretend otherwise if that's what he needs.

 

But I have triggers. It bothers me less that he is unwilling to take blame than it does that he is so eager to dispense it. It bothers me less that he lies to cover himself than it does that he gets wildly indignant to have been "accused" in the first place. It bothers me less that he thinks so much of himself than it does that he thinks so little of me. It bothers me less that he is unwilling to work with me to solve problems and get things done than it does that he gets angry when I do not do it his way and on his timetable. It bothers me less that he is unable to talk reasonably about our issues than it does that he characterizes my attempts as "focusing on the negative". It bothers me less that he gets defensive than it does that he goes on the attack.

 

It is not simple, but at least for him I do think that it is largely about insecurity and selfishness, the latter based on always having been allowed by his parents to be that way and the former based on the creeping reality over time that the rest of the world does not see him as Mom does and is not willing to treat him as Mom does. He LIKED what he got from her and is frustrated that he'll never get it anywhere else, and indeed - GAK- may not deserve to.

 

I see it is a hard pill to swallow...and it is stuck in my H's throat.

 

As far as advice, man I don't know!!! What works for me a lot is to try to give him some respect even when I feel like kicking him in the nuts...to try to not join in with the anger and counterattacking even when I am royally pissed...and yet, not agree with him or back down either. It helps me a lot to dismiss his anger when I know it is inapproprite and just say something like ok we disagree so no point in continuing the conversation, or enjoy your funk, I'm going to have a good mood anyway, or you are free to believe what you want, or leave if you must, but you're not free to talk to me like that...

 

I have realized recently that over the years he has unfortunately succeeding in making me more like him and less like me, as the song goes. I realized this after many assertions on his part that *I* am the angry one and he only gets angry when people "make" him angry. But HE is the one who has had this trouble before, I see him having conflicts with third parties all the time, whereas I only have them with HIM. People have always told me I am funny and incredibly easygoing and fair-minded and open-minded,etc. With him, I admit I am otherwise.

 

So ... that is what I am trying to do. Get myself back. It actually does seem to make living with him easier...

 

Best wishes for you. You have a lot of company, FWIW!!!

[luvstarved]

Well I blathered enough but rereading the thread inspired me to offer one more comment...

 

I have found that trying to convince my H of his wrongness, to try to formalize a method of communication, write letters, etc does not help as much as to let his wrongness hang there, all by itself, flapping naked in the breeze.

 

We have gone to counseling and LEARNED useful communication techniques and they help in certain circumstances, but when he gets in the irrational zone all that goes out the window.

 

But it HAS worked when he starts in with his stuff, to just treat him with the bemusement one would treat another parent's tantrumming child. Not only does he end up shutting up after more or less looking stupid but he has nothing to work with to make any accusations about anyone else's "emotional issues".

 

Not AT ALL saying I am good at this yet...but getting in as much practice as I can.

[theBrokenMuse]

Thanks everyone for your replies. It's incredible how many women seem to be married to a similar version of man. It's depressing actually...

[Milan721]

Here I was doing a google search specifically because of my unhappiness with a similar man - and this forum pops up. After reading your comments I knew I had to register to this group just to know I'm not crazy and alone.

 

My husband is the same exact way. I hate nagging and arguing so I adamantly avoid doing either, especially since arguing with him turns into pleading with a rabid dog. However, I don't like sulking around when there's a problem either. I've also learned to pick and choose my battles carefully. But what do you do when there is just NO communicating with someone who is NEVER at fault?

 

I started IC a while ago just to make sure I wasn't crazy. I mean, when you are in a problematic relationship in which your partner is clearly and adamantly convinced that they have never EVER done anything wrong - how could you not feel crazy? The only other option left in the argument is to accept defeat and try to examine why you alone are causing your own turmoil.

 

It was in IC that I learned that there's an actual term for this - crazymaking. When someone is so manipulative in a conversation that you are left completely unfocused, unbalanced and defeated. If I approach my husband about something that he said or did to hurt me, he'll usually reply with, "Well, since you're so upset (this issue) must be something you already had problems with and obviously has nothing to do with me." For example, in his rationalizing, he could straight up call me a whore and if I say something about it - well I must've already felt like a whore if it upset me so much.

 

Even if he apologizes about something (which is RARE), it's usually, "I'm sorry YOU got mad about nothing."

 

Our lack of communication is so great that I truly wonder how I let myself get into this situation. We have a child together and I can't possibly imagine having to be with this man for the rest of my life.