How to change a stubborn man's mind?

[beta]

I really want to make this short but somehow...I'm thinking that won't happen. I'll try.

I've known him for years..thru mutual friends. A fantastic wonderful man. He is 35 and has always been single and doesn't have kids. We only see each other once a year (live in separate countries). I was married..have 3 kids. We hook up online in Oct. It was friendly at first. (I have actually come on to him before but the fact that I was married (albeit not a good marriage) he would never indulge). At first I would ask "how is it that you're still single?" and that's how the flilrting started. It quickly became a full blown relationship..MSN style! Cam, everyday, hours...you know how it goes.

He is a professional. Works hard and is good at what he does. He's not a player. By no means. Would really love to have a family and settle down..just hasn't found the right girl. In past relationships, when he couldn't see himself with her, he would leave. His heart has been broken but once and before me, he has only told that one woman that he "loved" her. He is so happy. I am so happy. I initiate separation (for all the other reasons anyway) and he is well aware. Not scared. We both have no clue where this is going but our relationship has developped so much and within 2 months, we are full on in love! Txt's, emails, phone, MSN. It's amazing. We plan on seeing each other as soon as his project is done. Then his job will actually bring him to this side of the world and he is now talking "us" "our house". Asking about the kids everyday. Being very involved in their activities (more so than their father!) The divorce is a whole other story. Messy and complicated but my ex no longer lives here (hasn't for almost a year) 4 months go by and we still haven't seen each other (live). The pressure is on and I am wanting to plan something! I know I let myself get too needy and ultimately put allot of my **** on him. He was often going on about "wanting to be man" the one I turn to. And how wonderful our relationship was. We even picked out our master bedroom decor! I'm 34. i have a business and it can be moved anywhere. I really put it to him the first time he told me he loved me. "you sure what you're saying? That is HUGE! You would be a step-dad!" He reassures me that he's thought of all this but we will work at it. It will amazing to do things together. We have explored EVERYthing online. It's amazing. Really amazing.

Then I get upset when he tells me that he is delayed yet again another 3 weeks. I'm feeling frustrated. Pressure has been building for 2 weeks now (4 months into our relationship) and I feel him pulling away. The more he pulls away, the more i try to please him. You know how it goes.

On Monday, he says "I'm not sure this is going to work out". My bottom drops. I state my case..."we need to SEE each other! We NEED to be together! TO SEE!" He's afraid that what if it doesnt change? Wouldnt' being together be wrong? He thinks it's not a good idea but wants to think about it. We talked a couple of times that week and on Sat. I come up with a plan...I'll go to him! His work has let up...he can carry on doing whatever during the day and we'll be together at night. One week. Please let me come to you. "I don't think it's a good idea" so again, i plead my case. He is now irritated that I am arguing with him! And ultimately decides right there not to give us a chance at all.

We have the same best friends! They have been routing for us from the beginning. He is very independant. LOVES his friends and their kids to bits! Is an amazing, generous caring man. STUBBORN to no end however!

I am torn to bits. ALL of our plans are gone. I have been married twice so believe me I have an idea of what it takes to make a relationship work! NOTHING has happened but me pressuring him and him thinking it's not a good idea to meet! 5 days go by with no comms. (I am forever heartbroken! his friends don't understand either...they think we should meet!) He has "changed his mind" he tells me on that fateful day I just don't get it! He has said so many times that he is so comfortable and closer to me than anyone ever before! It sounds so impossible..given our distance. We are both grown intelligent people and this has not happened to us before. we talk about everything. Discuss everything and we are both fully aware of the logistical challenges we will be facing.

I wholeheartedly believe his change of mind has nothing to do with that. He is far too honest for that.

I get him on the phone this morning. Saying that leaving a stone unturned is worse than anything! He thinks that seeing each other (making love) would make things worse (IF it doesn't work out). i ask him straight out "do you have feelings for me" he replies "of course I do" but i don't think it's a good idea. I'm not crying this time. I just state my case and that we should at least "see". I mean, he needs not leave a family or anything else behind. At the end of the day, we are two consenting single adults who have shared an amazing time together (sexually too so don't even go down the "maybe he can't perform"path!)

He says he doesn't have to validate. If he's made a decision, he can live with that. I ask that he consider ME. indulge me here? We've gone thru so much together and that I will at least feel like we've given it our best shot if it doesnt' work. He still thinks it's a bad idea. He says that since he's made this decision, he hasn't reconsidered and that that in itself is telling. I ask "could it be out of stubborness?" He laughs and says "maybe". I had to go, I say please think about it? He says "i'll think about it"

I called back immediately on my way out (a thought just came in my mind) WHat happened? What is it that made you change your mind? He says it's a difficult question to answer. not one thing really. I suggest maybe it had allot to do with me pressuring him? He's not sure. I simply say "maybe we'll know IF we see eachother?" I wish him goodnight and he says "take it easy..speak soon"

?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

 

Now what???????

I need his consent to see me. HE is sooooooo stubborn that even if I throw myself at him (it has to be said here for you skepticals that I am gorgeous and sexy and have no worries about not being attractive enough at all!) that he will resist me out of sheer stubborness.

NOW...I would LOVE to get input from one of these men but I am thinking that "one of these men" would never be on a forum like this!!!!!!!?????

thanks,

[jmargel]

This guy is lying to you. He has a SO and is not wanting to be with you. It's time you move on.

 

Asking about the kids everyday. Being very involved in their activities (more so than their father!)

 

Exactly how? He hasn't even SEEN you or your kids? You are living in a fantasy world and it's time you snap out of it.

 

Unfortunatly this happens quite a bit, where one online person leads another on for quite some time. He never had any projects that brought him over to you, and good chance everything he's been saying has been a lie. How can you put so much trust into someone you never met? He's been telling you what you wanted to hear for the longest time, it's just he got tired of the game.

 

Sorry but it's time to meet someone local, someone who can actually be there physically with you. I just can't understand how some people can waste years of their life on some online stranger who they never end up meeting in person. What you two had is NOT a relationship, and honestly it is not love what you feel for him. You may also look into counseling for yourself.

[beta]

I know my post was long. just to clarify! I HAVE met him! I DO know him! We just developped our relationship online. We have the same best friends and that accounts for knowing more about his past and how he is (from being around him ..around him with the kids...) AND he HAS met my kids! Actually babysat them! (with our best friends). We just haven't made love because our affair started online...but we do know each other and he is not a complete stranger.

[Trialbyfire]

Affair? Are you married or have an SO, beta?

[blind_otter]

Well, JMargel - to be fair she did say that they have mutual friends, so he may not be lying.

 

And of course - you can't change anyone! They have to want to change themselves.

[beta]

WAS married. He's not. I suppose I should have used the word "relationship". I am more than convinced that he does not have an SO. Mutual friends..and he works 17hours a day on a site...plus, he would just simply say it. I am 100% certain of this. What I am not certain of is how he can be so stubborn and not want to SEE?

[LuCidiTy]

wait. im confused but i did read fast. you have or you haven't met in real life?

[Storyrider]

There is absolutely nothing you can do to change his mind except back off and give him time. If he doesn't change his mind it wasn't meant to be.

 

Oh, you could send him some really sexy pictures first. Then back off.

[beta]

YES we have! Many times! As friends however. And he is my best friends best friend. Only see each other once a year (until we saw each other EVERY single day on MSN for 4.5 months!) We have met. just haven't made love. Our love affair started online...not in real. we just need to see each other now but things got kinda wierd and he's not sure and ultimately thinks it would be a bad idea (what if it was worse?)

[LuCidiTy]

Ah okay...wow...how did i not read the first line?! sorry. okay...back to pondering...

[beta]

Oh, you could send him some really sexy pictures first. Then back off.

 

He has some sexy pictures! has admitted to still having feelings for me and we signed off with "i'll think about it". We WILL see each other. The problem is: it may only be in the social context (with our friends) He stays there most of the time (since he has been working all over the world...but even when he had his flat, he would stay with them (prefers being around them and the kids to being alone in his flat). When I go over (could be April) I stay with them too. Generally, he stayed on the sofa in the front room and i took the guest bedroom. I asked "how's it going to be when we see each other?" He said "friendly I hope" then he asked how I would react? i said that I would probably want to be all over him! He said "well, that's not going to happen" (and kinda laughed) I asked "you mean, when you see me, you'll kiss and hug me and not get turned on??" He said "NO, I didn't say that" (but he is so stubborn, he would take this on as a challenge!) How do I come on to him and not be rejected? He has feelings for me, he is attracted to me and is just being stubborn. How do I turn a stubborn man around?

[Trialbyfire]

You can never turn a stubborn person around. If they're set in their thinking, you back off and let them come to you. The more you pressure him, the more he'll retreat.

[Nomad1]

The more he distances himself the more it fuels your fantasy. People's desires intensify when they can't have someone. They ascribe godlike qualities to the reluctant person. You said he is not the type of guy to be pimping these kind of sites! I'd say he has a SO or is afraid of commitment (3 kids a huge undertaking if you are not the father!). Why don't you go and meet him for a weekend, it might help stabalise the chemistry in your brain. I am sorry if this sounds unkind, but you are clearly emotionally overwhelmed by this encounter and it is scaring the guy. It is nothing to do with stubbornness. `he simply does not want to take the plunge and most probably because he is not as excited about the relationship as you are!

 

Take care

 

Nomad1

[beta]

I see what you 're saying about the whole the more he distances himself, the more I want him. That's what caused this whole thing to begin with! However, we were BOTH very excited about this relationship until i got to that needy "how come you don't send me spontaneous i love you txt's anymore?" and ultimatelly freaked him out. Meeting for the weekend is the LEAST we can do! This is my point. I am very sure there is no SO...he just feels like it would be wrong to consumate our relationship if we're not going to make it all the way (although he does admit that he is not 100% sure that we can't work!) He has feelings for me but has made a "decision" (in the midst of my needy freaking) and can simply stick by that. (he can live with it he says) I just wish he can NOT be stubborn...this ONE time. If we don't get it (the way we got it so intensely for 4 months!) then we will have tried everything! If I rock up there unannounced, I don't think he would be happy? BESIDES if he has it in his mind NOT to sleep with me, he won't! I want to know how to change that mind of his....to have him want to meet me? When I asked him if he was sticking to his decision out of stubborness he said "maybe?" I know he is.

[Trialbyfire]

beta, do you know how controlling you sound?

[beta]

That's really not what I want to do. I guess I don't realize how controlling I sound. I've never been good at letting go and have fought for seemingly everything I have....wouldn't anyone fight for love? Isn't giving up tantamount to saying you didn't believe it existed in the first place? I thought a control freak was someone who controlled every single thing in their life? I'm not like that. I live in a Tip, make spontaneous plans and tend to "go with the flow"....this man is the first to have captured my heart this way. I have never been so vulnerable to ONE person before...

[blind_otter]

You are trying to force him to change his mind - force him to change himself, bascially, so you can get an opportunity to show him that you are worth a try.

 

But you cannot change anyone. People have to want to change themselves. You cannot force anyone to do anything they don't want to do (unless you're talking about a child).

[pr-girl]

Beta-

 

I can definitely relate in the fact that my ex broke up with me about a month ago and I feel as though we never had a chance. He thinks the distance is just too far and there is no changing his mind.

 

It has taken me time to see, just as he can't make me understand why we shouldn't be together, I can't make him understand why we should be together. We are different people with different opinions. He's not wrong and I'm not wrong.

 

I love this man dearly and had never been happier with another man. I would LOVE for us to get back together.

 

The good this for you is the fact that you two are still speaking. It shows at least an effort on his end. I would love to still have that. The problem is that it just seems to make things harder for me.

[shenandoah]

hey beta. Well your story touched me because I've been in the same boat as you. Long story short, me and ex broke up, well not even that, he emigrated. we drifted apart. i found a new guy. we split up, then another guy then another etc.. and i realised. i wasnt over my ex. never could be. i was still in contact with him via internet, email etc. so, i decided to take the plunge and tell him i still loved him. he replied saying he felt the same after 2 years too he thought he always would, but he was "with somebody". yeah whatever. but great?? yeah.. all my dreams about him coming back were realised. i replied saying great, look we have to be together, get rid of your gf, god if after 3 years we still feel the same? we're so right for each other!

 

he replied saying "um, its not a gf. i'm married. ive got a son here..."

bottom fell out of my world. totally. i begged him. he sounds a bit like your guy, professional, trustworthy (ha!) principled, no way in hell a playa. i was gutted as to how this had happened. i worked out he only must have known her about 8 months before the baby. we had a heart to heart, crying, he said do you want to see me? i said yeah, he said oh god what a mess, we'lll work it out. i said okay. he said call tomorrow and email you tonight. Don't worry. then he went home.

 

Then he emailed back basically saying same as your guy did. He said " we can't, this is stupid, no we have to forget this now. i dont know what i was thinking, if i abandoned them here i couldnt live with myself its too late, we mustnt talk like this again, its too upsetting. ok?"

 

i was gutted. and i tried. and tried. and tried. for 2 years to get him to change his mind, or just even acknowledge what had happened and discuss it. but nothing. i had things to say and i got no closure, i felt as though hed opened floodgates then closed them, and i thought how do you move on knowing theres unfinished business? finally, he just shut down from me emotionally, he wont talk about ANYTHING remotely emotional now, just because hes said no. hes stubborn too and he can suppress his emotions but i can't. so i've got to the point where i think screw you, what about ME? you don't lie to me for 3 years, then say a load of stuff, THEN tell me youre married, then say "lets not discuss it"!!

 

i can sympathise, but i cant offer any advice. all i can say is mine never did change his mind back and after the way hes treated me, i really don't care if he does anymore!

Edited March 20, 2008 by shenandoah