Fiance's son

[lexi29]

So my fiance and I are getting married in Sept. He has an 8 yr old son who lives with him. I dont' live with them yet, I will probably move in before the wedding though (sometime this summer) THe apartment he lives in right now (2 bedroom duplex) is too small for my belongings so we are looking for a 3 bedroom house to rent or buy. I can afford the house on my own (a fixer upper) but of course I want my fiance to look at homes with me. I set up an appointment with a listing realtor to see two of her homes tomorrow. I want to view the homes first with just my fiance and if either is something we may consider purchasing, then we will bring his son to look at it as well.

 

When I went with him and his son to look at apartments (a few months ago before my fiance rented his current place) his son embarrased me as we were looking at places. He would get so hyper and run around and say inappropriate things (at one place with the landlord standing right there he said out loud "what a dump!!" and at another he talked about how his dad stinks up the bathroom all the time. We looked at four places (on four different days) and each time we'd go see someplace new he would be bouncing off the walls running around, punching at the air, just acting up and when either myself or his dad would tell him to settle down he would act up even more and say "make me" and just run around more. He does NOT act like this at home. At home he is rowdy at times but he doesn't talk back like that or anything.

 

I guess it is the excitement of a new place or maybe he thinks he is just showing off or something. My fiance will tell him to settle down in these situations but mostly just shrugs it off and says that most people have kids and know how they act. Well I am one person who doesn't have kids and though I love his son DEARLY and a lot of the things he does I don't get annoyed by because I love him and think he's precious, I DO get annoyed by strangers' kids who misbehave in public. So I can imagine that even if the professionals who are showing us these homes have children or grandchildren they may get a bit annoyed by his hyper active behavior.

 

Also it is easier not to miss little things about the homes if you are not trying to keep track of a child. My fiance feels that I am excluding his son from "family" things. He thinks I am trying to cut him out of important things we do together and while I see his point- that yes, in this instance I want to exclude his son, we can always take him out to eat or something later that evening and spend time just with him. I feel this is a situation that is for adults and if we decide we like one of the homes a lot of course we would bring his son to see it before we made an offer (his opinion would be considered to) I just think of how he acted when my fiance was apartment hunting and I cringe thinking about taking him to look at these houses tomorrow.

 

 

So do you think its appropriate to send him to a friend's house to play while we look at the homes or is my fiance right that we should take him with us?

[melodymatters]

Sorry for the short answer as i have to go in a minute, but as a parent AND a Realtor, there is NOTHINg wrong with leaving a little boy out of the initial screening process !

[hotgurl]

IMO I don't think it is apporpriate to take a child house hunting unless you have no other options.

 

#1. you and your fiance make the final decision yes it is nive to make the son feel included but in reality he has no say on whether you but hte house or not.

 

#2 it is tedious for children to house hunt and very boring. You can expect a child to sit still through hours of house hunting.

 

#3 you can talk more openly with each other if the son is not there. Kids' don't always understand things. Plus what if he gets attached to a house for whatever reason and you can't or won't buy it.

 

When we house hunted we left my daughter at hme most of the time. We did bring her to theh osue after we put money down and had an inspection. But I think she is also older than your SO's son.

[blind_otter]

I agree with HG. I remember when I was 7, we moved to a new town. My parents didn't take us house hunting with them. We saw the house they chose for us to live in, and that was it. My older sisters were 12 and 13, so my parents just left me at home with them to look after me.

[Mr. Lucky]

This may come across as judgemental Lexi, but I see problems ahead for you based on your relationship with your step-son to be. Your threads and responses convey a disconnect from him that may put your BF in a future position of choosing sides and you in a position of resentment. Might not be a recipe for success...

 

Mr. Lucky

[sunshinegirl]

Yeah...it seems like the value or purpose of having the son there is pretty much lost on the child himself.

 

My parents moved when I was 3, my sisters 6 and 8, and none of us had any say or participation in their decision-making. First time we saw the house was the day we moved in.

 

It kinda sounds like an idea your fiance really likes - a kind of "we're a family so let's do this together" image - but the kid doesn't seem to give a rip. Is your BF not open to leaving him at home w/ a caretaker?

[Aloros]

I don't think it's necessary to take an 8-yr-old with you to go house-hunting. I moved around a lot as a kid, and I never got to see the houses or have a say in them until I was 16 (my sister was 14).

 

And, as someone mentioned earlier, this stuff gets BORING for a kid! My FI and I are house-hunting right now, and though we sometimes appreciate the input of his son (10 years old), we always ask him if he wants to come along or not. More often than not, he'd rather play with his friends. Most of the time when we take him with us, it's because we don't want to leave him at home alone.

 

And let's be honest here. The reasons a kid wants a house are rarely going to coincide with the reasons an adult wants a house! We looked at one place that was a bit of a dump, but stepson-to-be LOVED it because it had a basement.

 

Besides, you need to be busy looking out for faults in the house rather than chasing after a misbehaving 8-year-old. It's an adult decision to make - buying a home - and you can always sell the kid on the particular house later.

[whichwayisup]

Next time this happens, house hunting or whatever, tell your future step-son, "I know this has to be really boring for you, out with us and house hunting...BUT, if you can hold on abit more, afterwards we'll ALL go for icecream." Bribery works with (some) kids.

[lexi29]

When Mr. Messy and I purchased our first home and when we rented our next one, we didn't take our children. When we built our last home, they children were included in all the decisions about that home, but nothing more.

 

Sorry to be rude, but as a teacher, it sounds like his son is a nightmare who would cause problems anywhere he went. I know children like to show off for strangers, but that seems a little more than showing off. What type of discipline is used when he behaves inappropriately? Is he displined at all? Why is he only told to settle down instead of told what is expected of him and then removed from the situation when he doesn't comply. Unless you and your fiance address these concerns before you marry, it could possible become a bigger issue once you are married.

 

I am ssure that you want to include him in activities of meeting friends, maybe shopping for something that would be enjoyed by the family, maybe important events. His behavior will become an issue again.

 

 

Actually when he is at school his teachers say he is one of the quietest kids there. The teacher who does his after school daycare says he is one of the sweetest kids she has and best behaved!! When he is with me alone out somewhere he is very well behaved but in certain situations when he's with his dad or his dad and me he acts up. He knows that when he's with me alone he will get in trouble if he does something wrong so he hardly ever does anything wrong. But when his dad and I are together with him, he knows that I defer to his dad to discipline him and my fiance is a little lax in that area. He will yell at him but never really punishes him. So he knows his dad is a pushover. He doesnt' normally act up when we go out places, he's usually pretty good but for some reason when we went apartment hunting he was horribly hyper and literally bouncing off the walls. He was trying to get attention from the landlords that were showing us the houses I think.

 

My fiance doesn't believe in harsh discipline because he says his father used to beat him all the time and he'd never lay a hand on his son. Also says his parents always spoiled his siblings and never gave him anything so I guess to make up for that he spoils his son. He does punish him for bad grades though (takes his playstation away for a week if he fails a test)

 

 

Like I said before, he's normally not a problem child and whenever I take him somewhere and he's a perfect angel and my fiance asks me how he was he always says "yeah everyone tells me how good he is (when they take him somwhere) I wish he'd act that way with me." He knows he can get away with a lot with his dad so sometimes he acts up. Even my parents tell me that he's one of the most well behaved and polite kids they've ever seen (when he's around people other than his dad or his grandparents (my fiance's parents) he is all "please" and "thank you" and sweet. When he's with his dad its "GET ME THIS NOW!!" and he won't pick up his stuff and if he doesn't get his way he cries (last night he wanted to make macaroni and cheese and my fiance forgot to tell him when the noodles were ready to stir and this caused him to scream at his dad and cry about the situation for about twenty minutes. If this had happened when he was with me, he probably would have gotten a little disapointed but he wouldn't cry or scream at me.

 

and as far as seeming disconnected from his son (Mr. Lucky) I really hope thats not the case. I feel I am connected to him, I love him dearly. I have never dated anyone with a child before my fiance (been in his son's life for six years) so I'm not sure what the norm is in most situations. I do more for his son than his son's own mother does. Anyone who knows me will tell you that. My fiance is used to taking his son EVERYWHERE with him. His parents will watch him while he works and thats about it. My fiance had to go to the hospital recently for xrays and an MRI and he took his son with him! The nurses, receptionist etc had to entertain his son while my fiance had tests done. I feel thats totally inappropriate to bring him there (its not the nurse's or receptionist's responsibility to watch your kid) but apparently they didn't mind much and the xray tech even let his son come in the room and she showed him how she develops the xrays. I'm just one of those people who thinks there are places appropriate for bringing kids and then there are places where they shouldn't come along if possible. maybe when I have my own kids I'll feel differently who knows.

 

 

Its been decided, anyway, that his son will come with us to look at the houses. My fiance went to look at a house yesterday without me and he took his son with him and said he was good. So I said he could go.

[lexi29]

So we took his son to look at two houses with us yesterday. At the first one, he was pretty good except he kept opening closets and a drawer and there were people living in the house. I kept telling him not to touch anything.

 

 

On the way to the 2nd house he was sitting in the back seat and it was raining really hard and he took off his seat belt and jumped into the back behind the seat of my fiance's Ford Explorer. The realtor was behind us and he kept waving to her through the back window. My fiance told him to sit back in his seat and he didn't listen. I asked him to sit down and he ignored me too. I then told him if his dad got pulled over by a cop he would go to jail because his son wasn't sitting in his seat. He didn't care about that either. Well neither of us could crawl back there and force him to sit down so my fiance basically did nothing and let him ride back there. I was actually hoping that the realtor would get out her cell phone and dial child services and report my fiance, I was so mad that he let his son do that. Totally unsafe and from his reaction it has probably happened before.

 

At the 2nd house, I was already irritated with his behavior and when we went inside he just got on my last nerve. He was touching everything, running around singing and then right in front of the realtor he got down on the dirty carpet and was pretending to make snow angels (like you do in snow) and I didn't want to yell at him in front of the realtor so I said "please get up right now" very sternly and he did get up and just kept saying "you're mean" and pouting. When either his dad or I told him not to touch stuff (this house was unoccupied so it wasn't as big a deal) he would say to me "well my dad is touching stuff why cant' I, its not fair." My fiance and I were not really able to look very carefully at the place because we were trying to keep track of his son. He wasn't horrible but he was mouthy and too hyper. On the way home, I asked my fiance to speak to his son about jumping in the back and taking his seat belt off earlier and he said oh just let it go he knows it was wrong. Maybe I'm just not cut out for this.

[carhill]

On the way home, I asked my fiance to speak to his son about jumping in the back and taking his seat belt off earlier and he said oh just let it go he knows it was wrong. Maybe I'm just not cut out for this.

 

Oh, boy. I sense a quantum difference in parenting styles. Personally, I'd shelve house hunting for now. It sounds like there are more pressing issues to deal with.

 

Sorry to not know the details, but is your fiance the custodial parent of the child? It sounds like it. His parenting style likely will not change. The elephant in the room that no one is talking about is will he support your more strict parenting style. Thoughts? If he won't, I'd give this a lot of thought. Although my wife and I haven't been able to have children, parenting style was a big area we discussed while dating and during our engagement. We're both more like you are in that area.

 

I wish you well. Not an easy row to hoe

[lexi29]

Yeah, he is the custodial parent. We have talked about me becoming a step parent and basically we will share various responsibilities and my fiance is fine with me discipling him but major decisions are left up to him. Which is fine with me. He has no problem with me telling his son not to do something or correcting him or yelling at him (when he's around or when he isn't.) When he's not around, I'm allowed to punish him if I need to but that has only happened once because he is usually very good if he's with just me. He knows his dad is a pushover but things like yesterday when he "allowed" him to take his seatbelt off and ride in the back behind the seat of the SUV and jump over the seats and refuse to put his seatbelt on, that was a safety issue and that really bothered me that he was so nonchalant about it.

Edited March 20, 2008 by lexi29
spelling

[TechDude]

he took off his seat belt and jumped into the back behind the seat of my fiance's Ford Explorer. ... My fiance told him to sit back in his seat and he didn't listen. I asked him to sit down and he ignored me too.

 

Carhill is right - you two need to do a lot of talking about parenting styles.

 

Regarding this incident, I would suggest a more appropriate approach is to stop the car and tell the 8YO that you are going no where until he is seated again with his seatbelt. I realise this may not have been convenient at the time, but that is life with kids - they can manage to be very inconvenient at the worst possible times.

 

On the way home, I asked my fiancé to speak to his son about jumping in the back and taking his seat belt off earlier and he said oh just let it go he knows it was wrong. Maybe I'm just not cut out for this.

On the contrary, you seem to be the one who is prepared to address the issues your fiancé just wants to ignore.

 

My fiance feels that I am excluding his son from "family" things.

 

Look, seriously, this isn't a "family thing". It is an adult thing (and teenager if they are interested). For an 8YO, house hunting would be very boring. His behaviour is no surprise at all. He is not part of the decision making process, he has no useful input to it.

 

He thinks I am trying to cut him out of important things we do together

This isn't a family "do together" situation. Heck, most adults even hate house hunting, but you have to do it.

 

(his opinion would be considered to)

Convince me. Even if the 8yo hated a house you two loved, surely that wouldn't be part of the decision making process.

 

My kids range from 11 to 21. While the older ones might actually be able to provide some useful input, whether they like it or not in the end is not a major factor. The younger ones will simply have to accept it. If the older ones don't like it, they can go find their own place.

 

I just think of how he acted when my fiance was apartment hunting and I cringe thinking about taking him to look at these houses tomorrow.

Absolutely!! You already know the right answer.

 

So do you think its appropriate to send him to a friend's house to play while we look at the homes or is my fiance right that we should take him with us?

No way I'd be taking any kid with me regardless of age unless they were genuinely interested in the activity itself ... that is ... looking though lots of houses.

[carhill]

The SUV incident is a perfect example of where team parenting is so critical. The boy has to know that you both back each other up or he's going to play you.

 

Your SO can be more relaxed if he wishes but he's treading on thin ice with efficacious parenting (and likely in your relationship as well) if he doesn't back you up, assuming your parenting style is more aggressive. The balance will should be agreed upon by you and he.

 

That boy sounds like a handful. I know because I was him I had a strong-minded, strict mother and a father who backed her up completely. I called, as a teenager, dealing with them "lobbying congress" because they were so brutal I'm thankful to this day that they were.

 

Personally, I wouldn't get married until this is worked out. There's a lot of years (very potentially stressful years) left with this boy under your roof.

 

You should have seen me disciplining a neighbor's boy yesterday while I was edging the lawn over at my mom's house. He's riding his bike right up to where I'm operating the power equipment and all I'm thinking is a piece of debris is going to fly off that edger blade right into his eye. I look at him, point to the edger, point to my eye and give him a stern point "back!". He moved, right away. I told him about the why later. I love kids and discipline and imparting knowledge is part of that love. That was the community of parenting back when I was "the kid" in that neighborhood and it's something I value to this day.

 

Good luck!

[TechDude]

but things like yesterday when he "allowed" him to ...

 

Yes, that is exactly what happened ... he allowed his son to do that. You have a good head on your shoulders - you know what is going on.

 

that was a safety issue and that really bothered me that he was so nonchalant about it.

Absolutely it was. It isn't just an issue in the event of an accident. A kid bouncing around in the car is a distraction and can end up contributing to an accident.

 

From day 1, all of my kids were required to have seatbelts on and remain seated in the car. Sure they can get rowdy sometimes, but if a seatbelt comes off or it becomes a distraction the the driver, we pull over until the situation is resolved. Kids hate being stopped and not going anywhere.

 

Having said all that, my wife does not find it so easy to implement and would rather just get home rather than pull over (after school is usually the worst time). Having said that, she has had one accident where distraction from the kids was a factor. (Ran up the back of a teacher's car in the way to school - how embarrassing!).

[whichwayisup]

He is testing and getting away with it. Your fiancee doesn't realize this yet, but if he doesn't put a stop to his sons behaviour, it will only get worse. Together you two need to be a united front.

 

I also think he's acting out. He's scared of the new changes...New house, you moving in and taking the roll of being his step mom...He's 8 and kids are used to routines...It has to be hard on him - The unknown...

 

Some love, patience and understand can go a long way, but with that being said, I also think he needs to be told to stop his behaviour and suffer some sort of consquence. Maybe no TV, or no video games for afew days...Kids understand those types of consquences...Yelling at him or telling him off isn't doing anything because he seems not to care. BUT, take away his 'fun' time, he'll care then.

[curiousnycgirl]

He is testing and getting away with it. Your fiancee doesn't realize this yet, but if he doesn't put a stop to his sons behaviour, it will only get worse. Together you two need to be a united front.

 

I also think he's acting out. He's scared of the new changes...New house, you moving in and taking the roll of being his step mom...He's 8 and kids are used to routines...It has to be hard on him - The unknown...

 

Some love, patience and understand can go a long way, but with that being said, I also think he needs to be told to stop his behaviour and suffer some sort of consquence. Maybe no TV, or no video games for afew days...Kids understand those types of consquences...Yelling at him or telling him off isn't doing anything because he seems not to care. BUT, take away his 'fun' time, he'll care then.

 

 

Yup this is exactly what I was going to say. In another post you indicated that your Fiance has asked his son why he doesn't act badly when around his mother, and the kid's answer was because mom yells (or something like that) - I am fairly certain it is because his son knows that mom means it, and he knows that dad doesn't. Dad does not enforce the rules, and there are rarely any reprecussions.

[lexi29]

Yup this is exactly what I was going to say. In another post you indicated that your Fiance has asked his son why he doesn't act badly when around his mother, and the kid's answer was because mom yells (or something like that) - I am fairly certain it is because his son knows that mom means it, and he knows that dad doesn't. Dad does not enforce the rules, and there are rarely any reprecussions.

 

 

EXACTLY! His mom is the "bad cop" and dad plays the "good cop". I can say a lot of terrible things about the kid's mother (she abandoned him repeatedly, uses him as a pawn etc) but she does discipline him and she did teach him manners. Its amazing how different he acts when he is with me (or an aunt etc) than when he is with his dad. I'm probably making him sound like a terror and he's not at all- 90% of the time he's a good kid- a little hyper at times but sweet and polite and not at all out of control. But sometimes when he's with his dad and me in certain situations he just acts up. And my fiance really does nothing to punish him or correct the behavior other than yell at him or say "Stop it". Last night we were at dinner and I heard "stop it right now" about ten times when he decided to rub his fork and knife together repeatedly creating a sound almost like nails on a chalkboard, when he decided to stick his whole face into a bowl of corn my fiance was eating instead of using a spoon, when he pretended to flip off the waitress (but was using his pointer finger but it was hidden by his hand so it looked like his middle finger (was something a kid at school taught him), when he started bawling and throwing a tantrum because I told him he wasn't going to sit in the front seat like he wanted, and when I told him I didn't think it was a good idea for him to get a hamster he started crying too.

 

 

But as soon as we got home he asked me to watch cartoons with him, curled up on my lap, told me he loves me and forgot all about how mean I was all day.

 

I don't want to be a strict step parent, I don't expect my fiance to change all his rules just because we get married but for issues like the seatbelt thing, I just don't understand how you can be a parent and not be concerned about that (my fiance did tell me today that he hardly ever makes him put his seatbelt on (when its just the two of them)and the reason is that he takes it off anyways. He said he has always told him to put it on when we are in my car and thats true and his son does it and I dont' ever remember him taking it off in my car.

 

I told him today we need to talk about what we are going to do for paying bills, for how we will handle issues with his son etc and he said he hasn't really thought about that stuff because he is so excited about the wedding. Said he thinks it will be easy to figure out- we'll split bills and keep separate checking accounts, which is fine with me. He said he doesnt' think much will change except that it will be great that we are living together but that he will be responsible for his son as he's always been and I can help out if I want. Scary to me that he is more concerned with the wedding itself then what happens after the wedding day!!! He just seems like one of my girlfriends who had her heart set on a dream wedding and was so into the perfect wedding day and seemed to ignore thinking about the actual marriage. I think I'm going to ask him to go to counseling with me.

[annieo]

I agree that certain behavior, especially if it is dangerous (e.g., taking off seatbelt) or just plain rude has to be dealt with firmly and immediately.

But I can't help to wonder why a normally quiet and reasonably well-behaved kid starts acting kooky when looking at new prospective homes, with his dad and soon-to-be step-mom. Maybe a little conversation between his dad, you and him (not in the moment, but at a calm time) might be reassuring to him, and would give him a chance to express himself, and any fears he might have. Maybe he doesn't want to be there while you look, it's too much for him, maybe he's scared of all of the changes ahead of him. It's his life that's going to shift as well as yours and your bf's. Trying to turn the whole thing into a happy family outing is unrealistic and unfair (I'm talking about you bf here).

I think he's acting up because, as an 8 year old, he doesn't have the social skills to get his feelings across any other way. He sounds anxious to me, not deliberately naughty.

BTW, I am a teacher, parent, and am in my second marriage, so I've been down your road and I have some familiarity with the ways of children. I'm not a pushover, and I don't think kids should be allowed to rule (they don't want to, they know they aren't able/ready), but I do respect the fact that they have feelings and are people, too. They're not baggage to be carted from point a to point b. Try to use this problem as a way to get closer to your future stepson. You could both benefit.

[Siciliana]

If either of my kids ever said "make me".... I would.

And, I would do so by grabbing him and physically holding him still.

 

He is testing boundaries. And, you need to make them narrow.

 

After we left the place I would talk to him about his behavior and how it is unacceptable. I would tell him that if he planned on acting that way again there would be consequences. I would explain what the consequences are and if/when he acted that way again I would follow through with what I said I was gonna do.

 

You need to have free reign to discipline that child like he is yours. You future husband needs to explain to the boy that your word is his, that what you say goes, and the father needs to show that there is a united parenting front that the boy cannot manipulate.

[Arch]

Its not your place to "discipline" a child who is not yours, he is your future husbands responsibility.