luvstarved Posted March 15, 2008 Posted March 15, 2008 My H is away for the weekend on a "men's retreat" and I wish I could say that I missed him but the truth is that I feel so comfortable and peaceful and free to not have him exuding contempt, judgment, boredom, telling me what to think/do/say and why everything is my fault, etc that I don't know what to do. I am relaxed for a change. My concept of marriage is of a transcendental relationship irrespective of anything else - not tied to religion or personal ethic or anything else...just that sense of having a real PARTNER in every way...and I have tried SOOOO hard to have this relationship but have to admit that I don't. I don't read much on this board that makes me think that I am alone either. It seems so dang hard to have the kind of relationship I am looking for and I wish I understood why. I do not want Mr Perfect, I just want one person in this Godforesaken wasteland that wants what I want - an emotional/spiritual/physical/intellectual safe haven - a connection that is simple yet unbreakable. Most people just seem so much about their own wants/needs/fears, etc that it seems virtually impossible to get past those things and into what should be a once-in-a-life, total immersion, total acceptance situation...cripes, we are here for such a short time and we are so needy and complex...why is it so effin hard to find ONE LOUSY PERSON that we can be our whole selves with??? I just don't get why it is so hard...I am totally ready for that relationship, but where is the well adjusted person I am supposed to have it with? He does not seem to exist... Does anyone else feel like this???
TechDude Posted March 15, 2008 Posted March 15, 2008 My H is away for the weekend on a "men's retreat" and I wish I could say that I missed him but the truth is that I feel so comfortable and peaceful and free to not have him exuding contempt, judgment, boredom, telling me what to think/do/say and why everything is my fault, etc that I don't know what to do. I am relaxed for a change. I know what you mean. Unfortunately, when my W is "away" (ie in hospital), I still don't seem to be free from the pressures. My concept of marriage is of a transcendental relationship irrespective of anything else - not tied to religion or personal ethic or anything else...I understand what you are getting at, however I suspect it might be a little unrealistic. Those issues (eg religion, personal ethics etc) do have practical implications and when 2 people are sufficiently far apart on these issues (having read your other posts), someone has to compromise. Now while marriage is full of compromises, there is only so far any person can go and if you are being asked to compromise on core beliefs, I don't think it is going to work. just that sense of having a real PARTNER in every way...and I have tried SOOOO hard to have this relationship but have to admit that I don't.At the risk of sounding like a cliché, it takes two. I don't read much on this board that makes me think that I am alone either. It seems so dang hard to have the kind of relationship I am looking for and I wish I understood why. Probably because you are married to someone who not looking for the same thing. I just want one person in this Godforesaken wasteland that wants what I want - an emotional/spiritual/physical/intellectual safe haven - a connection that is simple yet unbreakable.At the risk of sounding improper ... I'm here. Most people just seem so much about their own wants/needs/fears, etc At the risk of getting back into religion, that is the human condition. that it seems virtually impossible to get past those things and into what should be a once-in-a-life, total immersion, total acceptance situation...At the risk of sounding argumentative, aren't we just back into what "you want"? But, yes, I know what you mean - you want the security and trust to be able to let your guard down and really take a risk in the way you love and care for another person. I just don't get why it is so hard...I am totally ready for that relationship, but where is the well adjusted person I am supposed to have it with? He does not seem to exist...I think the "well adjusted person" is a myth - a figment of our imagination. The trick is to find someone whose idiosyncrasies are compatible with our own. (I was going to say I don't think there are any well adjusted people aside from thee and me, but I'm not sure everyone would appreciate my strange sense of humour). Does anyone else feel like this???<TechDude quietly raises his hand, quickly glancing around to make sure no one else is looking> (Just proof read my post and I seem to be taking a lot of risks today.)
I Luv the Chariot OH Posted March 15, 2008 Posted March 15, 2008 You sound exactly like my mom before she divorced my dad. The only time she was happy was when he was away on the weekends! It seems like this well-adjusted person you want to share an emotional safe haven and be yourself with is not the man you are married to.
Lovelybird Posted March 15, 2008 Posted March 15, 2008 (edited) luvstarved, when I read the book Sacred Marriage, it almost made me think marriage is a warfare , only martyrdom wants to marry, but then there are some couples who made it through many struggles, and one couple even enter a 'honeymoon' stage after more than 20 years marriage and an affair, and their key to success is God. Most of us expect the marriage and their partner can fulfill their beautiful dreams of emotional/spiritual/physical intimacy, but all of us like helpless 5 years old boys and girl expect each other can fulfill that dream. I guess somewhere we have to adjust our assumption that another human being can do that and they are perfect. If we know they cannot be that perfect, and we cannot be that perfect, it will become easier to accept them. But God can change things, I believe this strongly, and that woman write the book you read succeeded in doing so. she had an anger husband, I bet he said many hurtful things to her, but God changed him sometimes I wonder if I idolize relationship with man and marriage too much, and in order to avoid that, now I am trying to invite God into everything I do, I ask His opinions in everything I do, so the thing He approves and flourish because of Him would glorify Him and make me happy, win-win God wants us to have a successful happy marriage, if we put God in the centre and obey what He wants us to do, He will teach us and change things Totally trust in God and feel His love for us IS heaven. think about that you don't have to worry about things, if you have, just pray and ask God for solutions, and He is happily to teach us I bet your husband wants the SAME thing in a relationship as you, he is frustrated as you, he has tons of resentment as you, he wants that perfect love as you, just that he has NO CLUE how to achieve that. Edited March 15, 2008 by Lovelybird
Author luvstarved Posted March 15, 2008 Author Posted March 15, 2008 Thanks for replies...I was feeling very guilty last night about my sense of peace so had to come and post! I know nobody is perfect...but it just seems funny that the one relationship that should be the easiest is somehow the hardest...I don't have tons of friends anymore, who has time...but with those that I do, and even my coworkers...if there is a conflict, it gets talked about and settled. I am very straightforward but reasonable...and virtually everyone I deal with responds well to that. A WYSIWYG thing. When a coworker oversteps boundaries of some sort, I call them on it, tell them how I feel about it, ask that they not do it again and then...move on. All is well. When I do same I usually recognize it myself and apologize before the other person even has to broach the subject (like, first thing the next morning). When my H does the same I cannot even express myself...just the hint that I might say something negative elicits the vicious counterblame defense strategy. Even the simplest thing is too much to ask. I read to daughter every night. EVERY NIGHT he comes in, interrupts, starts conversations, ask questions at least 3 times during a 15 minute reading session. For YEARS I have respectfully requested that he not do that, as part of the point is to relax before bed and immerse in the story. Oh sorry won't do it again (for two minutes anyway). By the 3rd or 4th time, I get aggravated and say heatedly, can you PLEASE just NOT INTERRUPT, for CRYING OUT LOUD! That means: I have an anger issue!!! To me it means: he does not have enough simple respect to honor even the tiniest boundary. Was BEAUTIFUL last night to read to her peacefully... lovelybird, I have started praying and hoping to ... get something from that. I actually am beginning to think that I am more spiritual than my H - just based on fact that I seem to give a dingdang about other people and think outside of myself...yes obviously I have wants and needs or I would not be on here, I'd just be out there doing some saintly stuff...but I am trying. The book you pointed me to talks much about praying for one's self to be better and I do try to think that way. I know I have my own faults to work on...but I am NOT a saint and I can only tolerate my H's attacks and criticism for so long before I react...but those time periods are getting longer...is that progress or stupidity? I wonder...anyway I have read a lot of your posts and don't agree with all of them...but with more and more of them and I have a lot of respect for your faith and integrity and caring...thanks... Techdude, I do appreciate that you are in a very similar situation. Your comments are very kind and much appreciated. They say that misery loves company and I have mixed feelings about that!! I would not wish this sense of emptiness on anyone but it does somehow make me feel better...relieved, not crazy, whatever, to know it isn't just me and my "emotional disturbances". Are you really a techdude? I am a techdudette (software developer) so was just wondering if we also had that in common...
OpenBook Posted March 15, 2008 Posted March 15, 2008 Does anyone else feel like this??? This is how I feel about it... him exuding contempt, judgment, boredom, telling me what to think/do/say and why everything is my fault, etc No one should have to live like this. No one. My concept of marriage is of a transcendental relationship irrespective of anything else - not tied to religion or personal ethic or anything else...just that sense of having a real PARTNER in every way... I think you're expecting too much. All relationships, but especially marriage, are conditional. "I'll love you as long as you [fill in the blank]" - and that blank is a loooooooooong laundry list for some people. I don't read much on this board that makes me think that I am alone either. You are definitely not alone. It seems so dang hard to have the kind of relationship I am looking for and I wish I understood why. I do not want Mr Perfect, I just want one person in this Godforesaken wasteland that wants what I want - an emotional/spiritual/physical/intellectual safe haven - a connection that is simple yet unbreakable. God wouldn't that be nice. Some part of me still hopes for that, I think,... but I've learned not to expect it, or anything close to it. So far (based on all the men I know) I'm much better off alone. Most people just seem so much about their own wants/needs/fears, etc that it seems virtually impossible to get past those things and into what should be a once-in-a-life, total immersion, total acceptance situation... But isn't that the whole reasoning for entering a relationship such as marriage in the first place - to choose a life partner who satisfies those wants/needs/fears? why is it so effin hard to find ONE LOUSY PERSON that we can be our whole selves with??? I think it's impossible to be our whole selves with anyone. Period. I am totally ready for that relationship, but where is the well adjusted person I am supposed to have it with? There are no guarantees in this life that we're going to get ANYTHING, much less a healthy relationship with a well-adjusted person. But I think a big part of attracting that kind of relationship is to already be happy with what you've got, right now, irrespective of whether you're lucky enough to be blessed with that kind of relationship. And a big part of being happy is to have no expectations, just take things as they come. But I could be totally wrong about all of this.:D
Walk Posted March 15, 2008 Posted March 15, 2008 (edited) My H is away for the weekend on a "men's retreat" and I wish I could say that I missed him but the truth is that I feel so comfortable and peaceful and free to not have him exuding contempt, judgment, boredom, telling me what to think/do/say and why everything is my fault, etc that I don't know what to do. I am relaxed for a change. I know when someone you love colors you in an unfair light it hurts, but why do you swallow what he's telling you? It seems as if you're saying that his words cause you to question yourself, to act differently, to think differently. And I wonder why you allow him so much power over your life? Its important to listen to your partner, and consider the things they say, but you're allowing him to dictate how you'll think about them. You control what you think, do, and believe. He doesn't. He doesn't seem to respect you, and if his comments cause you to question yourself and your actions, then why would he trust that you know what you're thinking or doing? I'm not saying this to be mean, and I'm not implying your at fault here. Your husband sounds like an azz. However, I know what its like to have someone constantly shove their views of your piss-poor efforts down your throat, have them scream at you for how worthless your attempts are, or flat out tell you your mindset is screwed up... and what I've learned is that's THEIR opinion. When I believe in myself then people don't belittle me for my thinking, or action. Their words hold no power over me and they treat me with more respect. When I question myself, allow other people thoughts to affect my own.. then I get belittled and bullied into things that make me feel bad about myself. I think you need to have more believe and respect for yourself before your husband will show you the same. Once you own that, then your non-verbal language will convey what a million little talks about respecting story time won't. Maybe this doesn't really apply to your situation... I didn't read your other threads. If you don't feel this is the case, then ignore this. You seem like a highly intelligent woman with a good head on her shoulders. Edited March 15, 2008 by Walk
TechDude Posted March 16, 2008 Posted March 16, 2008 Was BEAUTIFUL last night to read to her peacefully... I am please to hear that you were able to experience that. Those are life's special moments. Would it be a problem if you went to your H before reading to tell him that you are now going to read and you will be back in 15 minutes? Would he take this as a gentle reminder not to interrupt or would he react negatively to it. If he does react negatively, you could try saying gently "hang on, I didn't say anything wrong, I didn't say you did anything wrong, I was just letting you know that I'm popping off to read to our daughter - back in 15 minutes" ... and walk off. Sometimes there is power in a gentle unflustered firmness. "A gentle answer turns away wrath, ..." (Psalm 15:1) You have no idea how attractive (and even sexy) a quiet and gentle yet confident woman is to a man. EVERY NIGHT he comes in, interrupts, starts conversations, ask questions at least 3 times during a 15 minute reading session.Respond with a gentle "I'll talk about it when I'm done here" and continue reading without even waiting for a response from him. If you can do this without getting flustered, it will also help your daughter. They say that misery loves company and I have mixed feelings about that!! Perhaps, and there is certainly an element of truth in that ... but I there is a part of me that aches for company away from the misery. it does somehow make me feel better...relieved, not crazy, whatever, to know it isn't just me and my "emotional disturbances". Glad I have helped in some small way. lovelybird, I have started praying and hoping to ... get something from that. I actually am beginning to think that I am more spiritual than my HI think I already told you that (http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1555240&postcount=49) Church was interesting this morning. We had a large cross out the front (one that we don't usually have). We were given an opportunity to respond to what Christ did for us (on the cross) by nailing a piece of paper to that cross. For me, there is a pile of emotional "junk", wrong behaviours, not really trusting Him in this difficult time that I symbolically nailed onto that cross this morning. I profess to follow Christ, yet I pray seldom. Then I wonder why He does not seem near (He is, but I'm not looking). Maybe more on this later ... still doing lots of thinking about this morning. Are you really a techdude? Absolutely. Here's my "alter ego": http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-user.cfm?id=41604 I spend too much time there, but I guess I get a bit of a kick from helping people. I'm sure my life (and wife and kids) would benefit from less time there and more time solving real life problems (but tech problems are so much easier to solve). That forum is just an "outlet" if you like. My job involves systems analysis, design, support, database design etc etc. I am a techdudette (software developer) so was just wondering if we also had that in common...<TechDude having fainted to the floor, drags himself back to the keyboard, reaching for the submit key.>
Author luvstarved Posted March 16, 2008 Author Posted March 16, 2008 Thx again for all replies...also having mixed feelings that my "safe haven" is a virtually anonymous internet forum...but...hey any safe haven is better than none... OpenBook, I honestly do not think I expect too much. My H has good (loyal, sober, reliable, hottie) and bad (angry, judgmental, poor problem solver) qualities and while I admit to being aggravated and inconvenienced at times by the bad ones...I could totally tolerate them if only I were accepted in return, i.e., it is not that he can't figure something out that upsets me, it is that he yells at me if I do not immediately and cheerfully figure it out for him that I have a problem with. Walk, I do appreciate the thoughtfulness of your reply, but I do not lack in self-esteem nor do I buy into my husband's unfair assertions about me. I am no sheep, no doormat. I am just a rational respectful human who wishes to be treated like one. I don't think I am s**t...I just get really impatient when I keep being treated like I am. When I am at my unkindest, I think that my H is really kinda dumb and insecure, I feel guilty even typing that but isn't a spade a spade? But - I do have love and sympathy. I would not care that he is no brainiac, I don't NEED him to solve problems - heck, that is MY forte. I wanted and thought I WOULD be happy that he is loving, appreciative, sweet, whatever. Trouble is, he isn't. He is selfish and demanding and very very angry. Just like Mom taught him to be. Techdude - LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!! Geeks UNITE! Awww...you have really touched me. In some other time, plane, universe, alternate reality...there could be a team! Listen, dude, I have SOOOOOOOO tried the quiet respectful request. Just is not met. It is sad to me for our daughter...because he is trying to mold her from his own image and that is NOT a good thing. His intolerance and impatience allows him to yell at her but if I try to correct her, he swoops in to say that I am "lambasting" her or that "she's just tired" or "Mom is crazy" or similar. She is becoming a whiny brat I am sorry to say and he allows it...unless it irritates him or interferes with HIS plans. When he is not around she is...a fantastic kid...smart, funny, easy going...with him, a brat. Pushy, argumentative, manipulative...he is the 3 strike dad "no no OK"...giving in to her and perpetuating his dysfunction. I called her on her behavior over vacation (she was waxing fussy at a Wendy's)...I told her that I would not stand that behavior...what did Mr Supportive say? That's ok, honey, I can't stand your Mom!!! Luvly. Later, he asked me if I had "squared" that with her...apparently asking me if I had apologized for calling her on her brattiness. I DID talk with her, and what was her take? MOM - will you please ask Dad to stop laughing at me when I am upset? Will you please ask Dad to quit picking on me? Will you please ask Dad to not yell? Hmmm...is there a remote possibility that I am not the one who has ultimately hurt her feelings? AIIIGHHHH! H will be home noonish tomorrow. Bracing myself, tightening up the neck muscles, girding myself for more bulls**t. Anyway a nice relaxed weekend is nothing to sneeze at...but I'll be breaking out the Kleenex in the morning.
TechDude Posted March 16, 2008 Posted March 16, 2008 Trouble is, he isn't. He is selfish and demanding and very very angry. Just like Mom taught him to be. I guess that means you have realised that he comes from a culture that treats women very differently to western societies. The issues you are encountering isn't so much him as the entire culture that moulded his personality and values. Awww...you have really touched me. Thanks ... just wish a certain other person felt that way. In some other time, plane, universe, alternate reality...there could be a team! Yeah, I have to work hard sometimes to keep my mind from going there. (I'm generalising here, not referring to any specific person). Listen, dude, I have SOOOOOOOO tried the quiet respectful request. Just is not met. OK, fair enough. Was worth asking. It is sad to me for our daughter...because he is trying to mold her from his own image and that is NOT a good thing. His intolerance and impatience allows him to yell at her but if I try to correct her, he swoops in to say that I am "lambasting" her or that "she's just tired" or "Mom is crazy" or similar. She is becoming a whiny brat I am sorry to say and he allows it...unless it irritates him or interferes with HIS plans. Again, I suspect it is not so much him, but the culture he comes from. You really have a challenging situation. When he is not around she is...a fantastic kid...smart, funny, easy going...with him, a brat. Do you get much (or can you make) opportunity for mother and daughter outings? I DID talk with her, and what was her take? MOM - will you please ask Dad to stop laughing at me when I am upset? Will you please ask Dad to quit picking on me? Will you please ask Dad to not yell? Kids are not stupid ... there will come a time when she will tell her Dad these things for herself. (My kids range from 11 to 21) AIIIGHHHH! H will be home noonish tomorrow. Bracing myself, tightening up the neck muscles, girding myself for more bulls**t.Fully understand, but you know this is just going to make it worse. LOL - who am I to talk ... when my wife gets so bad that it looks like another trip to hospital, I get really tense and stressed inside about having to manage the family by myself for a couple of months or more ... and work full time ... and still find time to visit her frequently. Actually, we are at that point at the moment. Have been on the verge of admission for about a week. It will be interesting to see if she can pull back from this or if she does indeed land in hospital.
Author luvstarved Posted March 16, 2008 Author Posted March 16, 2008 LOL - who am I to talk ... when my wife gets so bad that it looks like another trip to hospital, I get really tense and stressed inside about having to manage the family by myself for a couple of months or more ... and work full time ... and still find time to visit her frequently. Actually, we are at that point at the moment. Have been on the verge of admission for about a week. It will be interesting to see if she can pull back from this or if she does indeed land in hospital. Yikes! How often has that happened? Is her diagnosis straight depression? It sounds pretty bad...I am not sure I understand the timeline for you, sounds like you have been married a long time but this has been in the mix for the last 7 years or so...I guess I don't really know much about your story...how is your wife toward you when she is not on verge??? You must stay stressed all the time, waiting for the other shoe to drop...and trying to pick it up when it does... How many kids do you have??? Ten years is a good sized span! I have 3 girls, 9, 17 and 18...how do your kids handle the situation? Thank goodness they are older now...I hope that makes it a little easier for you. ...I did not get your remark about cultures...funny you said it because my older two kids' Dad is from a different culture from me...but H is not, not really, unless you count that he is from New England and I am from the southern US...there is a bit of a difference there...but not a chasm... Hang in there, TechDude...life is short and should not be so difficult...sometimes it helps me to tell myself to try to find some joy. Some days it seems like a tall order but at times it makes me feel lighter to think that...to remember that joy can be found and it is in my own power to find it...and that I deserve all that I CAN find... And so do you.
TechDude Posted March 16, 2008 Posted March 16, 2008 Yikes! How often has that happened? Heck, I don't know ... lost count. Is her diagnosis straight depression? That is the only diagnosis, ie no bipolar or anything, however, it is not just classic depression. There is something more and the doctors can't seem to figure out what. It sounds pretty bad...I am not sure I understand the timeline for you, sounds like you have been married a long time 24+ years but this has been in the mix for the last 7 years or so...I guess I don't really know much about your story...how is your wife toward you when she is not on verge??? Can be very mixed, but generally not good. You must stay stressed all the time, It gets very tiring. How many kids do you have??? More than you (twice). how do your kids handle the situation? I think they try to ignore it as much as they can (to cope). At the moment, I am fielding regular questions about is Mum going to hospital? When? I think it takes its toll on all of them. I think they are all more stressed than they should be. Thank goodness they are older now...I hope that makes it a little easier for you.It does. It wasn't fun when the youngest was 4 (when all this started). ...I did not get your remark about cultures...funny you said it because my older two kids' Dad is from a different culture from me...but H is not, not really, unless you count that he is from New England and I am from the southern US...there is a bit of a difference there...but not a chasm...ROFL ... NE vs Southern. No, I made a mistake. I've just been back over past threads and realised I confused a post by DaisyGirl with you (Muslim - now there is a chasm). I was new here and just starting to get to know some of the regulars. Hang in there, TechDude...life is short and should not be so difficultI'm kind of past "hanging in there". For a long time, there would be hope that we would find a solution. Now, I've seen so much "same old same old" that I no longer have any expectation that things will be any different. ...sometimes it helps me to tell myself to try to find some joy. There is some truth in that ... my circumstances are not about to change significantly any time soon. However, that's not to say one can't find some joy despite the circumstances. And so do you.Yeah, well, not sure I agree. My H is away for the weekend on a "men's retreat" Is this a church related retreat? You know, it really gets me upset when the very people who should know the most about demonstrating love are the ones causing so much pain to those around them. because he seems to only want to satisfy himself and for a long time just used porn and fantasy and masturbation and ignored me completely.This I have a major problem with. Plenty of other people talk about this on this forum and if that is their life choice, I'll not judge. However, if your husband goes to church and professes to be a Christian, then I will judge him by his own profession. my H on the surface because he does go to church, prays at night, etcThat hypocrite!! Now, having put some of the pieces together in my own head, I'm angry. Give me half a chance and I'd love to give him a piece of my mind. As a "brother in Christ" (ooooh that gives me the creeps) I have every right to give him advice and correction. Time to burst his bubble.
Walk Posted March 16, 2008 Posted March 16, 2008 (edited) it is not that he can't figure something out that upsets me, it is that he yells at me if I do not immediately and cheerfully figure it out for him that I have a problem with. I would not care that he is no brainiac, I don't NEED him to solve problems - heck, that is MY forte. I wanted and thought I WOULD be happy that he is loving, appreciative, sweet, whatever. Trouble is, he isn't. He is selfish and demanding and very very angry. Just like Mom taught him to be. His intolerance and impatience allows him to yell at her but if I try to correct her, he swoops in to say that I am "lambasting" her or that "she's just tired" or "Mom is crazy" or similar. I told her that I would not stand that behavior...what did Mr Supportive say? That's ok, honey, I can't stand your Mom!!! Maybe you've said this in a different thread, but if things are this bad then why do you stay in the marriage? I admire how strong you've been in dealing with this situation. I lack the patience and compassion to deal with someone like your husband. The way you describe him causes me to believe he's an insecure guy who needs to undermine you in order to feel better about himself. But I also wonder if you are unintentionally pushing his emotionally-irrational buttons which are exacerbating his worst behaviors. You said "I don't NEED him to solve problems". You also mentioned during bad periods that you think your husband is "really kinda dumb and insecure." The profession you have means you make at least enough to support yourself and your daughter if you decided to dump your hubby. You seem to have removed your husband from that male role of provider/protector of the family. You're a strong woman who is capable of achieving what she wants on her own. You know your husband is insecure to some degree, but the few roles that a communication challenged man could play in your marriage have been stripped from him. This could lead him to feeling as though you hold all the power and he would struggle to regain some of it through undermining your words and actions. It could leave him feeling worthless, and resent you for making him feel that way. Which could lead to the remarks and actions that are designed to undermine your power and control in the relationship. The only person in this marriage that he could possibly sway in his favor would be your daughter, and he seems to attempt to give her what he feels she wants in order to feel needed by her, or feel as though he's a 'hero' in her eyes. It seems to me that the two of you play off of your worst emotions, and bring out the worst in each other. The more selfish your husband gets, the more you claim your independence from him, and remove him from the roles that used to make him feel important in your life. His insecurity drives you to distance yourself from him, and the distance causes him to fear losing you even more so he undermines you in order to feel like he has some control. So, have you two tried marriage counseling? You can't live like this forever. It'll ruin your health, it negatively affects your daughter when you are dealing with this. Something has to change, and it takes someone to drive that change. Edited March 16, 2008 by Walk
Author luvstarved Posted March 16, 2008 Author Posted March 16, 2008 TechDude, Of course you deserve joy...how can you be Christian and think otherwise? You must believe that God has given you this burden for some reason...I struggle with spirituality for the very reason that I cannot be a hypocrite. lovelybird might have something better to say to you on this but I hate to hear this despair from you. I feel despair too, far too often, but I know it must be fought against. You are doing the best that you can with what you have been dealt and I very much admire your commitment and integrity. But remember, Jesus was the superhuman - not you, don't expect yourself to be. You are going to have negative selfish thinking, resentments, frustration. You could not possibly avoid it! Of course you have to fight those too, but you have to forgive yourself for them. I find a little piece of joy, strangely, in being able to come here and be listened to and halfway understood. I hope that you can too. There might not be change in your situation with your wife...but it is possible, and really, your only option, to try to grow within yourself to make your life better. That sounds like a huge load of crap, really, to me who immediately thinks, how can it get better when one is constantly being whacked across the noggin by someone else's relentless problems? It's not easy. But I do believe that it is up to the individual. You know that of course, you can't change her, only yourself. I know it too...and the struggle is learning how to do that. Yes it is a Christian retreat he is on. He does much for self-care and characterizes all of it as his goodness, basically. I am all for self-care but it is funny - he will come home (very soon, ugh) and be all inspired and not in so many words but in demeanor the upshot will be - look at my spiritual superiority. Not the humility and charity he should be coming back with. And yeah a hint of condescension that I don't go through the same motions...I am too busy pondering it all to take the time to just show up and check off the bullet item... sigh. I will say that with my kids and myself this weekend - I laughed more than I have in the previous God-knows-how-long. My effort today will be to keep laughing, no matter what comes back to me... Find something that makes you laugh. Every little bit helps.
Author luvstarved Posted March 16, 2008 Author Posted March 16, 2008 Maybe you've said this in a different thread, but if things are this bad then why do you stay in the marriage? I admire how strong you've been in dealing with this situation. I lack the patience and compassion to deal with someone like your husband. The way you describe him causes me to believe he's an insecure guy who needs to undermine you in order to feel better about himself. But I also wonder if you are unintentionally pushing his emotionally-irrational buttons which are exacerbating his worst behaviors. You said "I don't NEED him to solve problems". You also mentioned during bad periods that you think your husband is "really kinda dumb and insecure." The profession you have means you make at least enough to support yourself and your daughter if you decided to dump your hubby. You seem to have removed your husband from that male role of provider/protector of the family. You're a strong woman who is capable of achieving what she wants on her own. You know your husband is insecure to some degree, but the few roles that a communication challenged man could play in your marriage have been stripped from him. This could lead him to feeling as though you hold all the power and he would struggle to regain some of it through undermining your words and actions. It could leave him feeling worthless, and resent you for making him feel that way. Which could lead to the remarks and actions that are designed to undermine your power and control in the relationship. The only person in this marriage that he could possibly sway in his favor would be your daughter, and he seems to attempt to give her what he feels she wants in order to feel needed by her, or feel as though he's a 'hero' in her eyes. It seems to me that the two of you play off of your worst emotions, and bring out the worst in each other. The more selfish your husband gets, the more you claim your independence from him, and remove him from the roles that used to make him feel important in your life. His insecurity drives you to distance yourself from him, and the distance causes him to fear losing you even more so he undermines you in order to feel like he has some control. So, have you two tried marriage counseling? You can't live like this forever. It'll ruin your health, it negatively affects your daughter when you are dealing with this. Something has to change, and it takes someone to drive that change. Walk: Nail. Meets. Head. Thank you. We have been in counseling forever. I stay because I don't want to give up. I stay because I think that he is screwed up and not evil and is trying at some level. I stay because I believe he needs me. I stay because I have seen his relationship with parents and believe that they raised him to be the way he is and would like to help undo that damage. I stay because I took vows. I stay because he enjoys things that I enjoy and would like to retire one day and travel with him and sit quietly in restuarants and leave holding hands. I stay because I am convinced that it is not that I am the "wrong woman for him" but very much the right one and his best shot at having a long and loving relationship. I stay because I know that if my tenacity does not help him effect change...nobody's will. He was not equipped by parents to have healthy relationships. They coddled him and kept him all adolescent into his 30s. They told him how great he was and any interpersonal conflict was the other person's fault and anyone who disagreed or got angry with him was "just jealous". Everything that wasn't praise from others was malice. They never made him do anything and laughed when he talked to them disrespectfully. Maybe slightly cute in a 2 year old, but not a 40 year old, come on!! They hung on his every word and deed and made their entire lives all about him him and him. He does not know any different than to expect the same from me. Intellectually, he is clear on it. Emotionally, not a clue. He does not know how to do the things I know how to do. Most of the time he comes across as not wanting to know, only wanting to have them taken care of - by anyone but him. He seems to actually AVOID problem solving. But maybe you are right that part of it is knowing that he can't. You are certainly right in saying that he undermines me to feel control. I don't doubt that at all. When he wants things his way, he pushes, insults, insists, berates, does whatever it takes. Any decision he has had an opinion on has gone his way, from a form of brute force. Most of the time he does what he wants and leaves all the work to me and just jumps in at his discretion to bully for his way... Your post was extremely insightful and very much appreciated!!!!!!! Awesome!
Walk Posted March 16, 2008 Posted March 16, 2008 I'm glad to hear that you still want to make the marriage work. There's not many people left today who are willing to put in the overtime to make their marriage suceed. I do have one last question though. Have you tried attacking this from the side? You seem like a very direct, straight-forward person, who tackles problems with logic. But have you tried to play off his natural tendencies? You already have a good idea of what drives him, or stops him, from behaving in certain ways. Why not use that to push him in the direction you would like the marriage to go in? For instance, let him know that when he gives you time to read to your daughter without interruption that you see him as a great person for this. That your respect for his ability to give you that freedom is something that makes him a great man. Not that you simply appreciate it.. but he's the hero for doing it. Just wondered if you already tried something along those lines, and if it was sucessful.
AllThatIAm Posted March 17, 2008 Posted March 17, 2008 (edited) Am sorry to be posting so late on this thread. It is a very interesting one, sounds like my marriage. Hang in there luvstarved, I guess the first thing to do is to tell yourself over and over again that he will criticiae you no matter what you do. As soon as you accept that the criticisms dont sting anymore. I find it hard to believe that you can be in a relationship without wanting your partners approval. Human beings need to feel like they matter. We need to matter to someone and when we get married we hope our thoughts and feelings matter. I'm not saying this to be mean, and I'm not implying your at fault here. Your husband sounds like an azz. However, I know what its like to have someone constantly shove their views of your piss-poor efforts down your throat, have them scream at you for how worthless your attempts are, or flat out tell you your mindset is screwed up... and what I've learned is that's THEIR opinion. As much as I know all the above is true it still bloody hurts when someone you love treats you like that. It may have nothing to do with you but it still tears you apart. I think you need to have more believe and respect for yourself before your husband will show you the same. Once you own that, then your non-verbal language will convey what a million little talks about respecting story time won't. Sounds like a great idea, but I am wondering if non verbal language will change much? Sometimes in can be interpreted differently quote] Edited March 17, 2008 by AllThatIAm did not higlight quotes
TechDude Posted March 18, 2008 Posted March 18, 2008 Yikes! How often has that happened? OK, whatever the answer was before ... add 1 to it. I took her back to hospital yesterday. Time to fly solo again for a few weeks ... or months. However bad she felt, or however bad a job she thought she did at home, just being there still made a difference (but she could never see that). When it came time to leave work today, I really wasn't looking forward to going home. It just felt like I was going to an empty lonely place (even though it is full of kids).
Author luvstarved Posted March 19, 2008 Author Posted March 19, 2008 OK, whatever the answer was before ... add 1 to it. I took her back to hospital yesterday. Time to fly solo again for a few weeks ... or months. However bad she felt, or however bad a job she thought she did at home, just being there still made a difference (but she could never see that). When it came time to leave work today, I really wasn't looking forward to going home. It just felt like I was going to an empty lonely place (even though it is full of kids). Oh, I am sorry to hear about this. What do they tell you when she is admitted? As you hinted earlier, it sounds like there may be something additional going on with her and I wonder if the treatment she is getting has any investigative element...or if it is just about periodic counseling and med adjustments...I wonder why it came on 7 years ago...very strange...are there any other symptoms beyond mood - clumisness, forgetfulness, etc? I am a geek not a doctor but am just curious about things... I wish you well going through this. You can PM me if you want to just vent or whatever without actually starting up a thread...or do start threads when you would like more feedback... One day at a time...don't forget to take care of yourself as well as the W and kids... Best to you. Please keep us posted...
Neptune Posted March 19, 2008 Posted March 19, 2008 Oh man!!! Is this another internet EA in the making:confused: I can`t take it no more:sick:
Author luvstarved Posted March 21, 2008 Author Posted March 21, 2008 Oh man!!! Is this another internet EA in the making:confused: I can`t take it no more:sick: Cynical much? No it is not an EA in the making. It is called giving a s**t. I would not be on these boards if it weren't for caring about human relationships, admittedly my own marriage in particular...I am here to learn from others so I have a better chance of succeeding at it, and hopefully to have something worthwhile to say back to those who are trying to do the same. I realize plenty of people prefer indulging in a fantasy life to get their strokes...but I am not one of them. Not really fair of you to suggest that I am.
TechDude Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 Oh man!!! Is this another internet EA in the making Thanks for a good laugh. I hope luvstarved didn't take too much offence to it, but it appeals to my warped sense of humour. Took me a while to stop laughing. luvstarved: I haven't been here long enough, so PM is not an option. Anyway, this would have to be one of the shortest visits to hospital for my W EVER. My W is home again for Easter and if all goes well, she will stay at home. Thanks to everyone here ... being able to participate here has helped me have a better attitude towards my family and life in general. It was only a short visit to hospital, but I wasn't to know that until she came home. Emotionally, I coped much better this time than I have done in the past.
Author luvstarved Posted March 21, 2008 Author Posted March 21, 2008 Thanks for a good laugh. I hope luvstarved didn't take too much offence to it, but it appeals to my warped sense of humour. Took me a while to stop laughing. luvstarved: I haven't been here long enough, so PM is not an option. Anyway, this would have to be one of the shortest visits to hospital for my W EVER. My W is home again for Easter and if all goes well, she will stay at home. Thanks to everyone here ... being able to participate here has helped me have a better attitude towards my family and life in general. It was only a short visit to hospital, but I wasn't to know that until she came home. Emotionally, I coped much better this time than I have done in the past. OK OK I will lighten up...sometimes I get a little testy at some of the knee-jerk assumption-leaping that I read on the board. You have to be pretty good at separating what is useful from what is mere projection of other's issues/experiences... Tech, I am really glad to hear your W is home already. I hope that is an indication of some lasting forward progress for her. And very glad to hear that it was less difficult for you emotionally. Hurrah! My suggestion to PM was only because sometimes the conversations turn one-on-one for whatever reason and I did not want to saturate the board with such a conversation...but I have nothing to hide and was not trying to offer an electronic come-on from the other side of the planet! ROFLMAO over that one!! I do hope you will hang around and keep us posted on your situation. Very happy to hear that it has improved.
TechDude Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 My suggestion to PM was only because sometimes the conversations turn one-on-one for whatever reason and I did not want to saturate the board with such a conversation I understand that and had no problem discussing it over PM for the same reasons that you outlined ... my problem with PM is a technical one - that feature is not available to me yet on this forum (although if one were to look carefully, a link I posted earlier leads to the email address I use for Messenger ). I do hope you will hang around and keep us posted on your situation. Very happy to hear that it has improved.I do plan to hang around, but I need to make sure I don't spend too much time here.
Recommended Posts