whichwayisup Posted March 15, 2008 Posted March 15, 2008 I guess you didn't read what I said earlier...I have no problem with masterbation and porn. My H does it once in a while and so do I. Hasn't interferred in our sex life at all, and sometimes we watch it together and have some fun with it. I'm not insecure about my body, my abilities in bed or anything. My responses here have been based on what the OP (Jolene) has said on her thread.
Tomcat33 Posted March 15, 2008 Posted March 15, 2008 (edited) I don't know why women get so freaked out about their man masturbating. Do you masturbate, WWIU? How often? Has it f**ked up your sex life with your H? It's totally different and you can't compare, a woman does not have performance problems when she has spent the afternoon wacking off, a man does/will. In fact a woman gets even more arroused the more sex she has or the more she pleasures herself, it is a win win all around for a guy in terms of a woman masturbating not to mention women DON'T need time to recoup once they expell their secretions, where as for a guy it wipes him out. He is pretty much down for the count for a good while after he finishes and the act of masturbation to porn can be drawn out act that makes him that much more disinterested in the real thing once he is done (for that day). So don't tell me it does not interfere when this is happening frequently. Look sure the OP never said he is an addict but WWIU has a point, it most deffinitely can affect the sex life if he is constantly doing this on his own and behind the OP's back. Granted the OP DID say she can't always be there for him sexually so this is a good alternative. To the OP: Now I question why the sexual incompatibility were you always sexually different in terms of needs, meaning did he always want it a lot and you had a lower sex drive and over time it just got more pronnounced OR is this something that has happened due to the introduction of porn? Do you want less sex with him because he is using more porn and at one point it was good to have him go off to do that and leave you alone but now it is not looking like such a good idea? Edited March 15, 2008 by Tomcat33
Lovelybird Posted March 15, 2008 Posted March 15, 2008 He won't resent you, but later you will resent him, BIG. You have to be honest with yourself and him and tell him how you feel about porn. I wonder if the 'fake peace' can be a good thing in a long term relationship. Honest seems bring conflict, but it is 'real' relationship. Yes, you tried to let him be honest with you and himself, how about you? some compromises don't involves positives and negatives values, won't bring positive and negative result in the future, such as if he is a night person, you are a morning person, somewhere you make compromises, no harm. But porn is different. Porn only bring negativeness into relationship. many marriage are ruined because of porn. many compulsive sexual offender are porn addicters. Your husband isn't porn addicter, but porn is progressive. in the beginning you watch soft couple porn, when you feel satiated, then move on to hard porn, who knows one day just one click off, then move to violent and child porn. Once those images into mind, they never go away, it influences how he treats you in bedroom and even attitude toward you generally. Porn basically promote LUST for other, for more, for more young, it is bottomless. I think you didn't condemn him was good. but were you honest with him about porn? Acceptance is importance, but confrontation is also very importance in a marriage. Porn isn't a good way to resolve the sex frequency problem, it will bring bigger problems later if he make watching porn a habbit Did you try to pray to change that?
JerseyShortie Posted March 15, 2008 Posted March 15, 2008 Has his porn and masterbating gotten in the way of your sex life? Is he less attentive to YOUR needs? I would think the answers to these questions where easy. Quite simply, the porn and his masterbating have clearly gotten in the way of their relationship, if not their sex life. And clearly, since he wants to hid the porn and not talk aout it, he ISN'T being very attentive to her needs, emotionally at the very least. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- No matter how much it hurts me to think that another woman who he is clearly lusting over the sight of can be a substitute for me, it will hurt far more to be the recipient of his resentment and underhanded or subconscious hostility at feeling controlled and denied of what he thinks is a very biological and simple need to masturbate. I completely understand. In those moments a man is looking at porn he IS replacing his SO for that woman in those moments. And of course that is hurtful and sucks for the woman. He also says it doesn't bother him if I look at hot naked guys. Not a fair comparison since women aren't turned on like men are. Instead, would he be bothered by other men looking at sexy pictures of you? Truth be told, I worry that allowing it today means being completely substituted tomorrow...like, we're not getting any younger. The older I get, I wonder and worry if he will prefer the porn over me. I've tried to keep him happy, but I simply cannot have sex every single day, and I've tried but I just cannot do it. Again, yeah I completely understand this. We want to feel beautiful and special to our men. But often porn does the exact opposite and makes us doubt ourselves aswomen and our place in our man's life. I worry about this myself. Right now I am young and the girls in those movies are my age. But I think it is really going to suck to be a 40 year old woman whose husband is looking at 20 year old girls. Because we are just being replaced and why would a man think that makes us feel good? No woman can compete with teh amount of porn and variety that men look at today. It is really hard being a woman. I wish men would try to work with us on this instead of against us.
Kamille Posted March 15, 2008 Posted March 15, 2008 I really don't see porn as competition. I really don't think my SO, who does watch porn, puts a porn star and me in the same category. We share intimacy, activities outside of the bedroom. He loves me. We provide for each other's emotional needs. I'm with Tan on this one. I think the OP needs a clearer understanding of what porn means to her SO. I think her SO and her might not share the same beliefs when it comes to porn and I admire her courage in trying to understand and accept his experience of it. I think what we are reading here, and what she wants to discuss here, is the fears she has about porn. And I think women are most likely the least likely to understand what porn means to her SO. OP, talk to your husband as openly as you can about it. Hopefully he will be receptive to hear out your fears - just as you are receptive to accept that this is a part of his sexuality. It sounds to me like her decision to bring porn out into the open and accept it as part of their relationship is very recent. I mean, I even think she's still debating it so we don't actually know yet whether it'll cause problems in their relationship. My guess is that it won't. He already watches porn anyway. She isn't complaining about their current sex life and level of intimacy. If anything, I think he will feel even more accepted by her and likely be even more into her.
tanbark813 Posted March 15, 2008 Posted March 15, 2008 It's totally different and you can't compare, a woman does not have performance problems when she has spent the afternoon wacking off, a man does/will. Really? As a man who has had a penis for over 30 years this come as a total surprise! If you look at my response to WWIU I already said it can affect performance. But like others in this thread you're making assumptions. How do you know he "spent the afternoon wacking off"?? Yeah, if he did that it would hurt his performance. But the OP never said that's what he did. If they didn't have sex the day before and he jerked it once that day it will actually help his performance the following day because he'll then last longer in bed. I don't know why women think they know more about what it's like to have a penis than men do. So don't tell me it does not interfere when this is happening frequently. How do you know how often it's happening??? The OP never mentioned frequency at all. For all we know he might jerk it once a week.
whichwayisup Posted March 15, 2008 Posted March 15, 2008 A man who has to hide his porn and used porn alot before they were married, chances are, he wacks off to it more than once a week... I'm just sayin'...
tanbark813 Posted March 15, 2008 Posted March 15, 2008 A man who has to hide his porn and used porn alot before they were married, chances are, he wacks off to it more than once a week... I'm just sayin'... I have porn that I beat off to but the more I get laid the less I use it. So actually, chances are he used it more before they were married.
JerseyShortie Posted March 15, 2008 Posted March 15, 2008 And I think women are most likely the least likely to understand what porn means to her SO. That does work both ways. From what I have encountered and seen, most men are least likely as well to understand what porn means to their SO. My guess is that it won't. He already watches porn anyway. She isn't complaining about their current sex life and level of intimacy. If anything, I think he will feel even more accepted by her and likely be even more into her. Isn't that exactly what she is doing? She is obviously unhappy about an aspect of the relationship. The porn has already had an effect on their relationship. Why is that people assume that the man is the only one that is allowed to dictate when porn is okay and that only his opinion on it matters? And if men want to feel more accepted by their SO, why do they think the best way to do that is to seek out other women to jerk off too? I don't know why women think they know more about what it's like to have a penis than men do. It's not that women think they know what it's like to be men, but clearly men have no clue and many don't attempt to understand why this issue is so devastating.
blair08 Posted March 15, 2008 Posted March 15, 2008 That does work both ways. From what I have encountered and seen, most men are least likely as well to understand what porn means to their SO. Isn't that exactly what she is doing? She is obviously unhappy about an aspect of the relationship. The porn has already had an effect on their relationship. Why is that people assume that the man is the only one that is allowed to dictate when porn is okay and that only his opinion on it matters? And if men want to feel more accepted by their SO, why do they think the best way to do that is to seek out other women to jerk off too? It's not that women think they know what it's like to be men, but clearly men have no clue and many don't attempt to understand why this issue is so devastating. I agree. To the OP, if it really bothers you, you could always do a google search on the effects or porn in a marriage, and see what that brings you. You could present it to him, and hopefully he will see or understand better your concern. He will either read what you have presented him and truly see how you feel and want to work on some kind of compromise or something with you about it, or he will read it, toss it to the side and continue on with his porn viewing even though he knows how much it bothers you. If that is the case, then it might be clear he has little respect for how you feel and that the porn must be somewhat more important to him, than trying to understand how you feel on the matter. After all of that, you can't say you didn't try.
tommyr Posted March 16, 2008 Posted March 16, 2008 I agree. To the OP, if it really bothers you, you could always do a google search on the effects or porn in a marriage, and see what that brings you. From what I read, Jolene has been basically satisfied with her marriage and her sexlife. All the while her H has been using porn. To me this says that porn has not (and will not) cause negative effects in Jolene's marriage - that is unless Jolene' decides that her H should not use porn. This is coming from a happily married man with a good sexlife ... and a porn stash (which she knows about but has no issues with).
luvstarved Posted March 16, 2008 Posted March 16, 2008 Maybe I am missing the boat but what I got from OP is ambivalence about something that is THERE, that she DOES NOT LIKE, that she is trying to buck up and deal with and try to do the "right thing" with. She has more or less offered acceptance of it but internally...hasn't genuinely accepted it. And now is worried that this partial insincerity will lead to assumptions on H's part that will send things into the completely unacceptable realm. It sounds like she REALLY WANTS to be okay with it...and is working on that...but knows that what she can be okay with has a limit. Whether porn is ok in a relationship is 100% determined by the two parties in the relationship...I don't get why people continue to argue the objective merits/dangers of porn. I am ambivalent about it too. I would like my H to find me to be the only sexually interesting thing in the universe. Har de har har. I can't even discuss sex openly with super-repressed H...so you can't go by me. H used porn in our sexless phase but was eager to paint me as being knee-jerkily anti-porn which was never true. Somehow it justified it for him, go figure. I was against it because it DID impact our intimate life. Believe it or not, he did quit looking at it altogether when we renewed sex life...I actually do know this so am not being delusional!! But now, I am thinking, that means that he spends more time fantasizing about REAL WOMEN HE KNOWS OR SEES IN THE FLESH!!! Which I have little doubt is true... I think the reality is that whatever a man needs/wants in the porn and fantasy realm is unlikely to fundamentally change...only shift here and there based on how "real" sex life is going and how it's been negotiated in the relationship. I would certainly monitor things somewhat to make sure he does not drift deeper into usage...but otherwise, hey, he's going to jerk off to other people, real or imagined...pick your poison. I really hate the idea of H jerking off fantasizing about other women. But as I am heterosexual female, I can't be too fussy on that one or there would go 99% of potential mates!
Walk Posted March 16, 2008 Posted March 16, 2008 I started to think I was unreasonable to expect my husband to depend on me for sex all the time when I have certain times of the month, I can sick, I get tired and I'll be the first to say I'm not always there more than once a week (sometimes I'm there for him more than twice a week, but you know, we are busy people and all that). Why do the two of you only make time for sex once a week? I think it's really great that you are offering your partner an outlet for his sexual needs since you aren't available to fill it. But why is intercourse such a low priority? I try very hard to make sure intimacy is kept alive in my relationship, but it's important to me so I do it. My fiance works third shift and I work first. My job requires I work long hours and weekends. I have family obligations and so does he. And even if we have to tell someone no in order to grab a couple hours with each other, then we do that. I don't worry about porn replacing me because I work really hard to ensure that the sexual aspect of our relationship is strong. The porn is there for use when I am sick, or one of us would lose our jobs if we said no to our employers. Its not there to replace the effort and time it takes to create a healthy sex life, but there as a supplement for worst case scenario's.
JackJack Posted March 17, 2008 Posted March 17, 2008 From what I read, Jolene has been basically satisfied with her marriage and her sexlife. All the while her H has been using porn. To me this says that porn has not (and will not) cause negative effects in Jolene's marriage - that is unless Jolene' decides that her H should not use porn. This is coming from a happily married man with a good sexlife ... and a porn stash (which she knows about but has no issues with). JMO, but even is she is satisfied with the sex, and the porn is not interferring, its still a good idea to educate ones self on the matter. Just because the sex life might not be suffereing right now, doesn't mean it wont at some point. I never said it would, I'm saying it could. Besides wheather her sex life is suffering or not, she is still bothered by it, or she wouldn't have been seeking advice and making a post about it. JMO, of course.
Kamille Posted March 17, 2008 Posted March 17, 2008 JMO, but even is she is satisfied with the sex, and the porn is not interferring, its still a good idea to educate ones self on the matter. Just because the sex life might not be suffereing right now, doesn't mean it wont at some point. I never said it would, I'm saying it could. Besides wheather her sex life is suffering or not, she is still bothered by it, or she wouldn't have been seeking advice and making a post about it. JMO, of course. Totally agree that she would benefit from bringing her fears and anxieties up with the husband. He needs to be able to recognize her concerns are legitimate just as she is trying to be more understanding of his sexual needs.
JackJack Posted March 17, 2008 Posted March 17, 2008 Totally agree that she would benefit from bringing her fears and anxieties up with the husband. He needs to be able to recognize her concerns are legitimate just as she is trying to be more understanding of his sexual needs. Exactly. She does appear to be understanding of his needs. Its not like she just completley shut down after learning about the porn usage. So, I don't see why he can't at least be a little more understanding of her concerns, and maybe they could try to find some kind of common ground on the matter. If he chooses not to at least try to understand where she might be coming from with her feelings, then perhaps his porn is taking priority, which is a problem in itself.
Woggle Posted March 17, 2008 Posted March 17, 2008 Women need to make peace with a man's porn just like a man needs to make peace with a woman's vibrator. Men just like to wack off to naked women sometimes and it has nothing to with how much he loves you or not. It's a man thing. I don't understand why some women constantly try to change a dog into a cat.
Author Jolene Posted March 17, 2008 Author Posted March 17, 2008 Again, yeah I completely understand this. We want to feel beautiful and special to our men. But often porn does the exact opposite and makes us doubt ourselves aswomen and our place in our man's life. I worry about this myself. Right now I am young and the girls in those movies are my age. But I think it is really going to suck to be a 40 year old woman whose husband is looking at 20 year old girls. Because we are just being replaced and why would a man think that makes us feel good? No woman can compete with teh amount of porn and variety that men look at today. It is really hard being a woman. I wish men would try to work with us on this instead of against us. This nails it down. I work all day, clean the house, take care of both my son and my husband by cooking, doing laundry, cleaning, being there for them and hardly ever for myself. It certainly would be nice if I could get more "alone" time, but this is a guilt-ridden existence to want to do anything but task-oriented things for my family. It seems like a slap in the face to have my husband yearn to lust over a 20 year old woman because it devalues everything I do. My job is omnipotent and it takes all my time and energy and then I come home......to a needy child and an even needier husband. We usually have sex more than once a week. If I had sex with him every day it wouldn't be enough. I've done that and ended up in the doctor's office with bladder or yeast infections since he is a bit on the rough side. So that's why I tell him I can't always be there for him....I think he is delighted that he can have his cake and eat it too. Does it mean he'll cheat later on? But if I don't let him have it as well as our sex life two or three times a week (all we have time for), then he will not be happy. As long as he is happy, the rest of us can live in reasonable comfort. I just couldn't stand finding the secret stashes anymore. "barely legal" and "anal". When he asks for anal, I just point to the box of porn and tell him there it is. I feel as though I don't need to bend over backwards to please him when he clearly has a blatant disregard for how I felt about it in the first place "I'm a guy....we have needs"....he just doesn't care. So instead of making a big deal out of it and allowing it to errode my self esteem, I just tell him where my boundaries are and where the videos are. If he wanted to keep the best of me, he should have given up the porn. Now he has the porn, but since he is not truly happy with just little old me, he can have the porn, but he's never going to have the best of me again (anal is out of the question now since it would have been the occasional treat before I found porn in the house). Nothing is ever enough, so that's why I gave up. Other than that, our sex life is mutually satisfying when we make the time two or three times a week. If I even hint that I want to make sure he is hard as a rock and stays that way he doesn't realize I am telling him not to abuse the porn, he takes it as an insult that he isn't hard enough and I am complaining about his performance. He is a piece of work. Let him go, I say. If he flies back.......he could break his neck on the window if he isn't careful. For the sake of his happiness, I am willing to take this gamble. Maybe it won't become a huge problem.....it really depends on him and I have no idea what to expect. Again, I have one foot in and one foot out. I blame him for this.
JackJack Posted March 17, 2008 Posted March 17, 2008 This nails it down. I work all day, clean the house, take care of both my son and my husband by cooking, doing laundry, cleaning, being there for them and hardly ever for myself. It certainly would be nice if I could get more "alone" time, but this is a guilt-ridden existence to want to do anything but task-oriented things for my family. It seems like a slap in the face to have my husband yearn to lust over a 20 year old woman because it devalues everything I do. My job is omnipotent and it takes all my time and energy and then I come home......to a needy child and an even needier husband. ~I think you found your answer right here. Maybe its not so much about the porn itself, but maybe the resentment you feel towards your H, for the things he does NOT help you with or do for you. This right here I can completley understand. Helping out a woman with house work, the kids, saying little things that mean alot, etc etc, does do ALOT for women. It says to them, "hey you love me, respect me and appreciate what it is I do. I'm a person that does alot of other things, than just sexual things. You see me as a person." YOu really need to tell him what you have told us here. He needs to understand how important these things are to you.
JerseyShortie Posted March 18, 2008 Posted March 18, 2008 I totally get that Jolene, it's like all the things you do for him and even no matter what you do for himm is never good enough. What is the point in trying to make a man happy if the thanks you get is him watching SLutty Cheerleaders 123123123? It doesn't give some of us ladies anything to look forward too. It sucks to know that so many men use porn and their real life woman interchangbly just so they can be happy. It's the perfect way to make a woman feel devalued and completely unimportant. And if he needs to fight that hard for the porn, you end up feeling less or just as important the porn which is so very hurtful for any woman. PLEASE READ THIS AGAIN MEN. I don't even know why most men even bother with relationships since they seem at times more concered with being loyal to their porn then they do their own woman.
Walk Posted March 18, 2008 Posted March 18, 2008 I just couldn't stand finding the secret stashes anymore. "barely legal" and "anal". When he asks for anal, I just point to the box of porn and tell him there it is. I feel as though I don't need to bend over backwards to please him when he clearly has a blatant disregard for how I felt about it in the first place "I'm a guy....we have needs"....he just doesn't care. So instead of making a big deal out of it and allowing it to errode my self esteem, I just tell him where my boundaries are and where the videos are. If he wanted to keep the best of me, he should have given up the porn. Now he has the porn, but since he is not truly happy with just little old me, he can have the porn, but he's never going to have the best of me again (anal is out of the question now since it would have been the occasional treat before I found porn in the house). Nothing is ever enough, so that's why I gave up. I blame him for this.[/QUOTE] When did you find the porn in the house? How long have you been sticking to the "anal is out of the questions"? I think it's an extremely bad idea to take the stance you're taking on this. I think you're doing it for the wrong reasons, and this is going to backlash on you. You said: work all day, clean the house, take care of both my son and my husband by cooking, doing laundry, cleaning, being there for them [AND] my job is omnipotent and it takes all my time and energy and then I come home Omnipotent means: power with no limits i.e. unlimited power. It seems to me that you're saying you feel taken advantage of by your husband. That he doesn't seem to care how you feel. You martyr yourself for your family, and expect a certain level of treatment from them. When you don't receive this, you feel used, and you passively aggressive take it out on your husband. You cloak your negative feelings and thoughts inside a gesture that you feel says "I must be a wonderful wife". I think you're using porn as the illness, when it's just a symptom of a much larger problem. And I think you're being incredibly passive aggressive in your approach to resolving your relationship problems. You cloaked your negativity inside a statement of "I must be a wonderful wife". You two have much deeper issues then a stash of porn in the basement. Why do you place so much importance on the things you do at home and why doesn't your husband place that same importance on it? Why do you allow your job to impact your home life so greatly? How could your husband change to help lift some of the burden of the work off your shoulders? As it is now, you're pretending to do something nice for your husband, but you'll use it to bash him in the head later. A gift with a big price tag.
Tatara Posted March 18, 2008 Posted March 18, 2008 I don't even know why most men even bother with relationships since they seem at times more concered with being loyal to their porn then they do their own woman. I agree, and most men wonder why we don't have quite the sex drives they do. We need to feel "sexy" to want to have sex. How can we feel sexy if we know your fantasys involve drop dead gorgeous young girls who live to serve you sexually, lesbians, threesomes and orgies when we resemble none of those things and will never be able to resemble any of those things? And if we dare disobey them by trying to communicate our pain/insecuritys about it, they fly off the wire and protect it at all costs. Point is, how could you be happy offering him a simple ice cream cone when you know he is longing for a banana split?
Woggle Posted March 18, 2008 Posted March 18, 2008 Point is, how could you be happy being a simple ice cream cone when you know he is longing for a banana split? For the same reason I can be happy knowing that while I am not Brad Pitt or George Clooney my wife still chose me. I don't care if she watches their movies and talks about them with her friends because at the end of the day she still crawls in bed with me.
Author Jolene Posted March 18, 2008 Author Posted March 18, 2008 As it is now, you're pretending to do something nice for your husband, but you'll use it to bash him in the head later. A gift with a big price tag. He fought heavily for this gift and knew the price when I told him that it made me feel inadequate that he has to watch it when I am giving him plenty of sex even when I sometimes don't feel like it. For reasons discussed in several responses already, he insists on using porn despite how I made him aware of my feelings. Instead of caring about how it devalues my contribution to him and to the household, he simply fights for it, hides it and when caught claims that because he is a man (and all men watch porn according to him) he is entitled to use it when he feels it is appropriate (when I am not "putting out"). I found the first stash one month after we were married and I made it clear that I didn't want it in the house. A year later, I found a smaller stash very cleverly hidden. Why should I give to him everything I know he wants (quickies, blowjobs, anal sex) on top of our regular routine at a rate of three or four times a week when I am convinced now that it would still not be enough for him to give up the porn, so I have stopped competing with it. In return, he has lost my inspiration to give him all that he wants....he lost that when I found the first stash and all he could say was "I forgot it was there.....I didn't know you were such a prude." Both inappropriate statements. Thing is, the price is already being paid. I am not going to pull a rabbit out of my hat later.....I've already told him I am not willing to be ultimately responsible for his sexual happiness because that appears to be a naive way of thinking when I keep finding porn in the house, so I don't need to feel obligated to have sex with him when I truly do not feel like it. That is something women feel obligated to do if they truly believe that their man hasx this need, is loyal to them and will not stray if they are sexually satisfied with their wife....so she performs to his satisfaction....and he is satisfied. I just came to the conclusion that this was never never land thinking. It did not take much convincing for him to agree to this new arrangement where we have taken the porn out of hiding and into the open. He may abuse the privilege or he may only occasionally indulge in it. I don't know what to expect, so I was looking for some feedback from men who use it and still love and enjoy sex with their wife. I want to know that there is hope that this will only be a small annoyance to me that I can live with and that he won't go nuts with it and be a menace later on.
blind_otter Posted March 18, 2008 Posted March 18, 2008 I see big red flags in your post above. You keep saying "give him sex" - like you don't want it yourself? I mean, if you don't want it, don't do it. I can tell you from personal experience that it really sucks to have sex with someone who is only doing it out of some bizarre sense of obligation to you. That "duty sex" is really a total turn off. You want someone to have sex with you not only because you desire them - but because THEY desire YOU and THEY want to do it with you.
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