A question about levels of 'cheating'

[Strangelove34]

I've become involved in a situation where this question is very relevant, so would really appreciate some opinions from anyone who's cheated or ever thought about it. The scenario is, you're married, reasonably content but not uber happy; you meet someone else who's crazy about you, and start fall for them, not just physically but especially emotionally.

 

Here's the question; do you feel there are levels of unfaithfulness? as in, would you feel less bad/guilty/reserved about hugging/holding hands/some light caressing/etc, than say kissing/heavy groping/full sex?

 

Or, is it just black and white; you feel no worse about having secret sex than having a secret caress, so you may as well go the whole way?

 

Or maybe you edge along one step at a time and slowly allow yourself to go further?

 

Thanx all.

[LucreziaBorgia]

You'll find that people adjust and justify as the affair intensifies.

[JackJack]

IMO, anything you wouldn't do in the presence of your spouse is considered cheating in my book. Of course, not all people see it that way which is fine. If you feel guilty for doing something you shouldn't, then there's probably a reason why. But then again, guilt alone is not reason enough for someone to stop what they are doing.

[blind_otter]

IMO, anything you wouldn't do in the presence of your spouse is considered cheating in my book. Of course, not all people see it that way which is fine. If you feel guilty for doing something you shouldn't, then there's probably a reason why. But then again, guilt alone is not reason enough for someone to stop what they are doing.

 

I agree with jackjack. If you wouldn't do it in the presence of your spouse, it is cheating.

[Mustang Sally]

Ok. I'll take a crack at this one.

Standard Disclaimer: This is merely one woman's opinion.

 

I think in a way, there are, indeed, maybe not "levels" of cheating, but nuances in what constitues actual cheating and what does not. Based mostly on true intent of the participant(s). Meaning, who has not had fantasies or minor flirtations with a person other than their spouse, that they would not want to confess to their spouse, but at the same time, they were not in any way looking to cross any real lines of physical or emotional intimacy?

 

This - to me - seems like a pretty low and insignificant level of cheating - if it is "cheating" at all. Although I would also add that to repetitively engage in such behaviors probably should be alerting the participant to some issue with their own self-esteem - namely, that it would appear to be lacking if they must constantly seek affirmation of their desirability by this type of activity.

 

But when it comes to EA vs PA (if you don't understand what constitues an EA, google it or search for threads defining it on this site), I don't think there are "levels of cheating."

Both constitute infidelity, plain and simple. And any effort to "catagorize" the behaviors is merely a (lame) attempt to rationalize one's dishonest and irresponsible behavior.

 

Thus: if you hold hands and engage in minor petting - you are cheating. If you have p-v intercourse - you are cheating. If you have secretive emotional intimacy - you are cheating.

 

Get the picture?

[Owl]

There are no "levels" of cheating in my book.

 

If you're doing something with someone else that your spouse would be hurt to know about...its cheating.

 

Would your spouse be hurt/devestated to know that you're hugging/holding hands/light caressing on someone else? Darn good bet that they would be. So the "level" doesn't really matter...the damage is there.

 

Now, knowing that it PROGRESSED to a point where you're telling this other person that you love them...or are physically intimate...will hurt WORSE, its true.

 

But that in no way means that the "lesser levels" are in ANY WAY acceptable to your spouse...that they're "ok" for you to do in ANY fashion.

 

If you're asking this question, the odds are high that you've already crossed the line into an affair...into cheating...and are now looking for some way to rationalize/justify/"make ok" what you've done. Give that line of thought up now.

 

It'll never be "ok".

 

You'd be better served with figuring out how to make the situation right.

[whichwayisup]

I've become involved in a situation where this question is very relevant, so would really appreciate some opinions from anyone who's cheated or ever thought about it. The scenario is, you're married, reasonably content but not uber happy;

 

Did you talk to your spouse? Try to work on your marriage, make it better? Go to marriage counselling?

 

you meet someone else who's crazy about you, and start fall for them, not just physically but especially emotionally.

 

Not good since you're married. You made a committment to your spouse. How would you feel if your spouse was doing what you were doing?

 

Here's the question; do you feel there are levels of unfaithfulness? as in, would you feel less bad/guilty/reserved about hugging/holding hands/some light caressing/etc, than say kissing/heavy groping/full sex?

It's cheating. You are allowing something to happen with someone else who isn't your spouse...That's going against your vows.

 

Or, is it just black and white; you feel no worse about having secret sex than having a secret caress, so you may as well go the whole way?

That's not a justification for cheating. What you are doing is wrong and noone here is going to tell you to go for it. Sorry to sound harsh, but you're being really selfish by allowing this to continue..Think of your spouse!

 

Or maybe you edge along one step at a time and slowly allow yourself to go further?

 

The bottomline is, if you're unhappy in your marriage either fix it or divorce. THEN go pursue someone else.

 

Do you have children?

[carhill]

OP, I've walked this path and my simple answer to you is, if you can perform whatever behavior you are describing in front of your spouse and they are not affected negatively by it, then it's OK in your relationship.

 

Rather than draw a line like others have here, I think you and your spouse need to do that for yourself. I've found, as I age, I'm more aware and accepting of different kinds of love and their importance. As an example, "I love you" can mean many things. It's individual. The important thing is that you and your spouse are on the same page about emotional and physical relations you (or he) may have with others.

 

That said, from the tone of your post, you seem to be thinking that what actions you are taking or contemplating might be harmful to your relationship with your spouse. I'd listen to that voice. It usually doesn't lie. Remember, it's your actions and intent which are important. Hope everything works out for you

[OWoman]

What you are doing is wrong and noone here is going to tell you to go for it.

 

...And then along came a dissenter.

 

I'm not going to tell you to go for it, though. And I'm not going to tell you not to. You need to live with YOURSELF. You need your conscience to be OK with whatever decision you take. If you're comfortable with what you're doing, with the consequences it may unleash - including any pain or disruption the discovery may cause to others - and really believe the benefits outweigh the costs significantly enough for you to be able to live with the costs, and then some (there will always be unanticipated costs) then proceed. With caution. If the potential costs are significant, you may want to put the brakes on before they fail entirely.

 

It's not an easy decision, but it does need to be a considered and informed one, as these situations quickly develop a life of their own once they get going.

[malaclypse]

Here's the question; do you feel there are levels of unfaithfulness? as in, would you feel less bad/guilty/reserved about hugging/holding hands/some light caressing/etc, than say kissing/heavy groping/full sex?

 

Or, is it just black and white; you feel no worse about having secret sex than having a secret caress, so you may as well go the whole way?

 

 

I don't think there's levels to cheating, because what matters is that the trust is broken, not how...

[Trimmer]

Or, is it just black and white; you feel no worse about having secret sex than having a secret caress, so you may as well go the whole way?

I look at this from the opposite angle, and say, since I would feel guilty and bad having a secret caress, then I shouldn't even do that. Your premise here starts with "a caress is more or less OK, so why not go all the way;" my point is that even the caress isn't OK.

 

Or maybe you edge along one step at a time and slowly allow yourself to go further?

I think lying to oneself is a big component of a lot of affairs. It starts with "a caress isn't really cheating", and then you boil yourself like a frog with every little step further along the way. You are making it sound intentional, as if you "edge along" with a knowledge of what you are doing. Many cheaters end up at the other end, protesting "I don't know how it happened; I never though I would be in this situation," when in fact, every step along the way was a conscious choice that they just refused to take responsibility for until it was too late.

 

...who has not had fantasies or minor flirtations with a person other than their spouse, that they would not want to confess to their spouse, but at the same time, they were not in any way looking to cross any real lines of physical or emotional intimacy?

I agree with this, and one of my boundaries for myself and any future partner will be that when you start to share intimacies with another person, you've stepped outside the boundary. I believe this is Owl's point here:

 

If you're doing something with someone else that your spouse would be hurt to know about...its cheating.

 

I also agree with carhill's point that the important boundaries are those drawn by, and understood by, both partners together.

 

Finally, I'm not necessarily opposed to OWoman's "economic" argument, which is essentially, "understand what the costs and benefits are, and live your life in a way that your benefits are worth the costs." That, in essence, is how we all live each day.

 

Just don't fool yourself: there's a good chance that the "cost" of even a minor dalliance may be the loss of your marriage, and/or significant pain caused in the lives of everyone involved. In order to do a realistic cost/benefit tradeoff, you must not fool yourself that these consequences aren't a possibility - and this is the downfall of many affair participants. Beware if you are convincing yourself "Our affair will be different; we'll be really careful; we can keep it hidden," and remember the so very often heard refrain: "I never thought this would happen to me; I never believed I would be in this situation; I never meant to hurt anybody." Don't fool yourself.

 

And finally, consider that one of the "costs" of your choices may be that somewhere down the road, you will still need to look in the mirror and respect the person you see looking back. What kind of person do you want that to be?

Edited March 14, 2008 by Trimmer

[OWoman]

Just don't fool yourself: there's a good chance that the "cost" of even a minor dalliance may be the loss of your marriage, and/or significant pain caused in the lives of everyone involved. In order to do a realistic cost/benefit tradeoff, you must not fool yourself that these consequences aren't a possibility - and this is the downfall of many affair participants. Beware if you are convincing yourself "Our affair will be different; we'll be really careful; we can keep it hidden," and remember the so very often heard refrain: "I never thought this would happen to me; I never believed I would be in this situation; I never meant to hurt anybody." Don't fool yourself.

 

And finally, consider that one of the "costs" of your choices may be that somewhere down the road, you will still need to look in the mirror and respect the person you see looking back. What kind of person do you want that to be?

 

Absolutely - my point about considering ALL the potential costs, and then some. You can't anticipate reliably what those costs are likely to be from where you're standing now, so you need to paint the bleakest possible picture and then consider whether that would still be worth it - because that may well come to pass. It's very easy in the heady rush to see the benefits, the thrill and the excitement, but you do need to make sure that you have the resources to cash the cheque down the line (since Trimmer has painted this as an "economic" argument, let me exploit that metaphor!!)

[Jess-Belle]

I've become involved in a situation where this question is very relevant, so would really appreciate some opinions from anyone who's cheated or ever thought about it. The scenario is, you're married, reasonably content but not uber happy; you meet someone else who's crazy about you, and start fall for them, not just physically but especially emotionally.

 

Here's the question; do you feel there are levels of unfaithfulness? as in, would you feel less bad/guilty/reserved about hugging/holding hands/some light caressing/etc, than say kissing/heavy groping/full sex?

 

Or, is it just black and white; you feel no worse about having secret sex than having a secret caress, so you may as well go the whole way?

 

Or maybe you edge along one step at a time and slowly allow yourself to go further?

 

Thanx all.

 

If I felt entitled to do anything, I felt entitled to do it all. That was back then.

 

Now I'd consider any of it at the same 'level': it's all cheating, it's all betrayal.

[Meaplus3]

IMO, anything you wouldn't do in the presence of your spouse is considered cheating in my book. Of course, not all people see it that way which is fine. If you feel guilty for doing something you shouldn't, then there's probably a reason why. But then again, guilt alone is not reason enough for someone to stop what they are doing.

 

I agree 100 % with JackJack!

 

 

AP:)

[twice_shy]

I've become involved in a situation where this question is very relevant, so would really appreciate some opinions from anyone who's cheated or ever thought about it. The scenario is, you're married, reasonably content but not uber happy; you meet someone else who's crazy about you, and start fall for them, not just physically but especially emotionally.

 

Here's the question; do you feel there are levels of unfaithfulness? as in, would you feel less bad/guilty/reserved about hugging/holding hands/some light caressing/etc, than say kissing/heavy groping/full sex?

 

Well I don't know, and I will never know about the levels of guilt felt when cheating.

 

But if someone cheated on me, I wouldn't care if it was just kissing or full sex, either one is just as bad as the other in the context of a relationship and is grounds for a right good dumping.

[danavladeem]

Hmmmmm....shouldn't this be the question pose to Elliot Spitzer?

[OWoman]

Hmmmmm....shouldn't this be the question pose to Elliot Spitzer?

 

who is elliot spitzer, for us non-americans?

[blair08]

who is elliot spitzer, for us non-americans?

 

 

He was married, and governor of NY, and got caught paying call girls for sex.