Ball and chain...at 21?! .

[thebelljar]

Okay, this might be a bit of a lengthy post (many issues), but please bear with me, help and advice would be appreciated more than I can say.

 

I've been with my boyfriend for about 4.5 years now, since we were at school together, and we are now in our final year of university. We love each other very much and are extremely involved in each others lives (nautrally), although we don't live together. But things are very hard...

 

Things started to get more difficult when we got to university - everyone else is out having fun but we are in a serious relationship. This doesn't really bother me, I find I can have fun going out with my friends, dancing etc. probably almost as much as I would if I was single. My boyfriend is having a much harder time however. Despite the fact he used to really enjoy going out (before we were together) and enjoy hanging out with "cool" friends, he says that it makes him feel too sad now. He feels as though he is missing out on his young life and never really got to have one. So, he stays in most of the time mixes with "loser people - apparently they make him feel less like he is missing out" and feels depressed. He thinks maybe it will change as he gets older and "accepts that life is over anyway, its just because right now is the time you're supposed to have fun". He says he doesnt want to lose me and would still rather have me than the "young life" but our realationship is really suffering because of these difficulties. I don't understand why he is so sad and get angry and accuse him of just wanting casual sex. He insists its not that but more the feeling of freedom and how it feels to be single and go out "wondering what could happen". I try to understand and suggest us going out together but he says that not fun either and he doesn't like being around other people with me.

 

Sex is a main area of discontent. He says that we have become so close now that it's as though he no longer views me as a girl. When he looks at me, despite the fact that objectively he can see I'm attractive (I think I'm no so bad either!), it feels to him as though we are now so close that it is like looking at his own body (not really a turn on!) He seldom comes during sex becuase he can never reach that 'high'. He says he needs to view me as a girl again and suggests a threesome but I am so insecure because of our problems that I know it would just make me upset and see it as him getting fulfilment from someone else (he insists it is about seeing me in a new light but I get angry and say he's just so frustrated he sees it as a way to sleep with someone else without cheating). Furthermore, he is very well endowed (!) and I'm semingly very small (I'm petite anyway) and I can only take about half of him without it hurting. This adds further problems because it is hard to stimulate him enough, and it makes positions other than missionary very difficult. Please don't suggest spicing up the sex life....we've tried pretty much everything normal.....dressing up, light s&m, acting out fantasies, (and weirder stuff back in the early days!) but please help!

 

These collective problems lead to him feeling unfulfilled, and me feeling insecure and angry. I often have such angry outbursts I wonder if i need anger management, and he says the snappiness makes me seem even less sexually attractive!

 

A very negative picture I've painted, and it probably looks to you like we should break up but we can't bear the propect of that and are so happy when were together, except for sex! Despite all these problems we've stuck together and love each other so so much, we just want things to work, but think we were too young for such a serious relationship without prior expreiences.

 

I'm sorry for such a long post, thank you so much to those who have taken the time to read it, i really just want to sort out my broken relationship! xx

[shadowofman]

That sounds like me and all of the stupid watered down expressions I have used in the past. Except for the endowment part.

 

He is a promiscuous man in love with a monogamous girl. That is his problem. Welcome to the club, and I am oh so sorry.

 

"loser people - apparently they make him feel less like he is missing out" and feels depressed.

 

That's harsh! Is that his term or yours? I can understand his problem but I can't relate to this. I am the one in my relationship that wants to socialize, while my wife is a hermit. Not just with "losers", but alone all the time.

 

He says that we have become so close now that it's as though he no longer views me as a girl.

 

This is an attempt to express himself without making you angry or sad. What he means is that he wants to sleep with other people besides you. That he craves variety in his sex life. His problems with ejaculating come not from you being not attractive enough, it's his libido that requires variety to stay stimulated.

 

He says he needs to view me as a girl again and suggests a threesome

 

He suggests a threesome because he is a promiscuous man and wants variety. Not at all because he can't see you as a girl anymore. That is a ridiculous thing that he came up with so that he wouldn't hurt her feelings. It's hard for a man to express himself when his feelings will me misunderstood as insensitive.

 

These collective problems lead to him feeling unfulfilled, and me feeling insecure and angry.

 

This is the future of your relationship. Neither of you can be happy at once. Either he will be unfulfilled, or you will feel super-insecure.

 

A very negative picture I've painted, and it probably looks to you like we should break up but we can't bear the propect of that and are so happy when were together, except for sex! Despite all these problems we've stuck together and love each other so so much, we just want things to work, but think we were too young for such a serious relationship without prior expreiences.

 

I really, really feel for you on this. This is my exact situation. Good luck. I have no solution.

[lovelorcet]

Break up and figure you own life out. You 2 still have a lot of growing up to do and you are not going to be able to do this together.

[LucreziaBorgia]

It sounds like your relationship has run its course and you have outgrown each other. Think of it this way: any future you build will have your current relationship as a foundation, and nothing is likely to change or get better. I expect within the next six months or so you might get the "love you but not in love with you" talk, or something similar as he tries to find a humane way out of the relationship.

[TechDude]

I doubt this is the answer you want to hear, as I remember what it was like at 21, but ...

 

21 is still young ... much younger than you realise.

 

I was married at 21 (still am, but that's another story).

 

Based on my own experience, looking back, I can understand you boy friends desire to get out more and experience life (that doesn't necessarily mean he has to "sow his oats" everywhere).

 

I'd suggest that you tell him that he is right for wanting to experience life and that because you care for him, you are going to cut him loose to do what he likes ... without you.

 

Go your own ways, grow some. Worry about commitment further down the track.

[JerseyShortie]

Okay, there are more then a few red flags here with your boyfriend. Being young, I can understand his standpoint of wanting to get out there and experience other things but some things he says are strange.

 

I try to understand and suggest us going out together but he says that not fun either and he doesn't like being around other people with me.

 

RED FLAG. Why the heck doesn't he like being with you infront of other people? That would be a huge red flag to me. It sounds like he is hiding something.

 

Sex is a main area of discontent. He says that we have become so close now that it's as though he no longer views me as a girl.

 

RED FLAG. Okay, what the heck, he is blaming you for his lack of desire and discontent. It is not your fault or responsiblity to be his play toy. Sexual desire is something you sometimes have to create yoruself. Instead of trying to make the situation better he is blaming you for it.

 

He seldom comes during sex becuase he can never reach that 'high'.

 

RED FLAG. Again, this is his fault and issue, not yours. If he can't reach that "high" he needs to work at figuring out how to do that. He is blaming you again for somethign that is HIS to control.

 

He says he needs to view me as a girl again and suggests a threesome.....

 

RED FLAG. He knows you are having relationship probelms and he wants a threesome? Look, I am sorry but it doesn't sound like he is thinking about you at all and just himself. And it sounds like you are thinking about him, and not yourself either. Having a threesome isn't going to fix anything and really this is a completely selfish suggestion on his part.

 

 

These collective problems lead to him feeling unfulfilled, and me feeling insecure and angry. I often have such angry outbursts I wonder if i need anger management, and he says the snappiness makes me seem even less sexually attractive!

 

RED FLAG. He is completely discounting your feelings and needs and tryign to shame you into something that is easier for HIM to deal with.

 

A very negative picture I've painted, and it probably looks to you like we should break up but we can't bear the propect of that and are so happy when were together, except for sex! Despite all these problems we've stuck together and love each other so so much, we just want things to work, but think we were too young for such a serious relationship without prior expreiences.

 

Make time to talk to a free counselor. If he really wants to make this relationship work, and if you do too, you will both do what you can to make the other happy. As it stands, he really isn't doing that.

[shadowofman]

I'd suggest that you tell him that he is right for wanting to experience life and that because you care for him, you are going to cut him loose to do what he likes ... without you.

 

I think this is the best advice, belljar. Only wish it was an option for me too.

[Green]

I don't see any RED FLAGS' and it doesn't sound like he is blaming you for the fact that he no longer finds you attractive. Neither of you probably know how to break up and pushing for this threesome is probably his horny way of figuring a way out of your relationship. Its over if hes telling you that he no longer finds you sexualy attractive. This doesn't have to be a horible sad break up

[shadowofman]

But he does still find her attractive. I will bet you money he does. He is using language that is intended to cushion a blow, but he is not doing a good job. What he really wants to say is that he wants variety, something new and dynamic.

 

He says he needs to view me as a girl again and suggests a threesome but I am so insecure because of our problems that I know it would just make me upset and see it as him getting fulfilment from someone else (he insists it is about seeing me in a new light but I get angry and say he's just so frustrated he sees it as a way to sleep with someone else without cheating).

I don't understand why he is so sad and get angry and accuse him of just wanting casual sex.

 

The point is that "he says he needs a threesome". He is just using cryptic language to make his wants seem less insensitive. (This is why men don't express themselves much. The truth hurts the feelings sometimes.)

 

But she gets angry at his promiscuousness. This insecurity is a bit unattractive to him. He would be excited about sex if she wanted the same things as he does. He has lost hope in fulfilling his sexual future ideal.

 

When he looks at me, despite the fact that objectively he can see I'm attractive (I think I'm no so bad either!), it feels to him as though we are now so close that it is like looking at his own body (not really a turn on!)

 

Consider the fact that he is so in love with her that he feels that she is an extension of himself. He feels as if her body is his feminine half. That they are a sexual team, and their purpose is to experience sex with other humans. His ultimate partner will complete him sexually as his female half. If he likes going to the movies, he prefers to go with her. If he likes to have sex with a variety of girls, he prefers to do it with her.

 

I bet that he would not feel fulfilled by sleeping around, because he would be missing her the whole time. And that is why he won't leave her either. He wants her to be a part of him, and that includes a part of his sexual orientation (which is promiscuous).

[JerseyShortie]

The point is that "he says he needs a threesome". He is just using cryptic language to make his wants seem less insensitive. (This is why men don't express themselves much. The truth hurts the feelings sometimes.)

 

I don't know any man that says he wants a threesome because he is trying to be so sensitive to his partner. That is BS.

 

 

But she gets angry at his promiscuousness. This insecurity is a bit unattractive to him. He would be excited about sex if she wanted the same things as he does. He has lost hope in fulfilling his sexual future ideal.

 

Duh! Of course she is goign to be upset at his desire to be promiscuous. And OF COURSE it is going to cause insecurity. That is a direct threat to the relationship. It works both ways, if he was more excited about sex himself, I am sure she would be too. And if HE wanted the same things relationship wise that she does, I am sure thigns would be easier.

 

 

Consider the fact that he is so in love with her that he feels that she is an extension of himself. He feels as if her body is his feminine half. That they are a sexual team, and their purpose is to experience sex with other humans. His ultimate partner will complete him sexually as his female half. If he likes going to the movies, he prefers to go with her. If he likes to have sex with a variety of girls, he prefers to do it with her.

 

OMG, you don't really believe this BS yourself do you? A relationship isn't about having your cake and eating it too. It isn't about having one person committed to you, while you get that person AND get to run around with other people. Funny how you make mention about he should expereince other women AND have her but you make no mention of her having the same and getting to be envolved with other men. Aside from that, I find this whole paragraph of what you typed completely BS anyway. You are only looking out for him and his needs and competely forgeting she is a person with needs of her own. Most people, men and women, don't want to share their partner.

 

I bet that he would not feel fulfilled by sleeping around, because he would be missing her the whole time. And that is why he won't leave her either. He wants her to be a part of him, and that includes a part of his sexual orientation (which is promiscuous).

 

It's called being selfish, not this other bull honky you are spewing. Wanting to have your cake and eat it too because thinking about yourself over your partner. Even though you are suppose to be considering your partner too.

[Mr. Lucky]

The point is that "he says he needs a threesome". He is just using cryptic language to make his wants seem less insensitive. (This is why men don't express themselves much. The truth hurts the feelings sometimes.)

That fact that she (or most any partner, male or female) would find his rejection of their relationship hurtful has absolutely nothing to do with men's reluctance to express their feelings. "I'm not turned on by you" and "I want to have sex with other people" would difficult for either gender to hear...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Ladyjane14]

...He says that we have become so close now that it's as though he no longer views me as a girl. ...

 

...He says he needs to view me as a girl again and suggests a threesome...

 

Run, girl.

That's not love. You're only 21. You've been with this boy for four and a half years, and from an adult standpoint...you don't KNOW anything else but him.

 

You're already a scapegoat for his angst and that's unlikely to change at ANY point in the future for the very simple reason that... he gets away with it. He'll never learn better as long as that dynamic is allowed to exist.

 

Hon, you're young. Don't tie yourself down yet with a partner who doesn't really respect you for the person you are. The world is still your oyster. You can make your life into anything you want it to be. Don't let this guy hold you back from doing that.

 

Oh and just between us girls... never settle for a boy when you can have a man.

And here's how you can tell.... boys only care about their own diddles. But men know how to appreciate a real woman.

[shadowofman]

I don't know any man that says he wants a threesome because he is trying to be so sensitive to his partner. That is BS.

 

What he has been saying is not what he means. I'm telling you you have to read between the lines. What he should have said was, "I want to be promiscuous, and I want you to join me. I am bored with monogamy in general, not just with you. If I am going to ever have a high libido again, I need to fulfill or at least express this aspect of my sexuality. One person will never be enough to keep me interested in sex."

 

Have you ever tried to tell this to a partner? It's never taken well. He used very poor words in his attempt to express this desire. I have used similar stupid explanations and worse manipulations.

 

Duh! Of course she is going to be upset at his desire to be promiscuous. And OF COURSE it is going to cause insecurity. That is a direct threat to the relationship. It works both ways, if he was more excited about sex himself, I am sure she would be too. And if HE wanted the same things relationship wise that she does, I am sure things would be easier.

 

Of course things would be easier. This is just evidence that their sexual orientations are not compatible. I agree that from her perspective, promiscuity is a threat to her happiness. And from his POV, monogamy is a threat to his. Not compatible!

 

OMG, you don't really believe this BS yourself do you? A relationship isn't about having your cake and eating it too. It isn't about having one person committed to you, while you get that person AND get to run around with other people. Funny how you make mention about he should expereince other women AND have her but you make no mention of her having the same and getting to be envolved with other men. Aside from that, I find this whole paragraph of what you typed completely BS anyway. You are only looking out for him and his needs and competely forgeting she is a person with needs of her own. Most people, men and women, don't want to share their partner.

 

Ooooook. Well I am debating from his perspective because it is also mine. And this BS that I am spouting is my BS. I will ignore your "cake" analogy because it is meaningless. And I will at this point make mention of her having a right to be involved with other men. Obviously if his end of the relationship is opened, her's should be as well. Finally, if her needs are to be in a trusted monogamous relationship, then she needs to find one, just as he needs to find the relationship that he wants. Not compatible!

 

It's called being selfish, not this other bull honky you are spewing. Wanting to have your cake and eat it too because thinking about yourself over your partner. Even though you are suppose to be considering your partner too.

 

Well, monogamy is selfish too. Monogamy requires possession of another person, and possession is selfish. Wanting what you want out of a relationship is selfish no matter how you look at it. As long as he is willing to open her end of the relationship as well (so, not an *********), then he is actually selflessly allowing her to be free of possession. It's all far from bull honky.

 

Have you cake and eat it too. lol Worst analogy ever!

[shadowofman]

That fact that she (or most any partner, male or female) would find his rejection of their relationship hurtful has absolutely nothing to do with men's reluctance to express their feelings. "I'm not turned on by you" and "I want to have sex with other people" would difficult for either gender to hear...

 

That's the thing. I don't really think he is not attracted to her. I think he is just choosing to make an excuse for not wanting to hold up the original monogamous arrangement. "I'm not turned on by you" is obviously the worst thing he could have said. He knows it is difficult to hear, so he is babbling it all out. He does love her, as strong as she has expressed. It's unbearable for them to split, so he is breaking down sexually.

[JerseyShortie]

You're already a scapegoat for his angst and that's unlikely to change at ANY point in the future for the very simple reason that... he gets away with it. He'll never learn better as long as that dynamic is allowed to exist.

 

Glad I'm not the only one that sees it!

[Green]

I don't think this guy is bad. This is probably the first real relationship he's had to end and he just doesn't know the right way to go about doing it.

[2Wings]

Sorry sister Ive been there and eventually he wanted to break up and he blamed me for him staying around the house all the time only I wanted him to go out but as you said he felt sad well my guy said he felt guilty leaving me home I'd leave him if he dosent stop the guilt trip talking because if you let him get away with it and keep giving him simpathy he will turn it on you and we were together 6 yrs:lmao:

[I Luv the Chariot OH]

Run, girl.

That's not love. You're only 21. You've been with this boy for four and a half years, and from an adult standpoint...you don't KNOW anything else but him.

That says it best right there.

 

From all that you've said, I can't possibly imagine this realtionship lasting into adulthood. Even if you don't get out immediately, just know that you'll have to (and it sounds like he'll be the one initiating that) eventually.

[luvstarved]

I find it very hard personally to understand the difference between selfishness/laziness and "orientation". My H and I had YEARS to sow wild oats and we both did (actually, me much more than him) and we still have sex issues. Now, I want monogamy and to work on keeping it exciting with one person through mutual EFFORT. H does not seem to want to make this effort. Is he selfish or just a slave to his "orientation"...ie, is there hope for change or will things always be basically the same.

 

If I can't figure it out after years of relationships mixed in with hedonistic behavior, then your BF is not likely to either.

 

From what you have posted, it does sound to me like he wants to break up and does not know how to do it. It sounds like he feels some guilt about it and is not handling that in a mature manner, but is trying to turn things around in some way to be "your fault". I agree with the poster who said that the "love but not in love" speech is likely in your future.

 

Snippiness, sarcasm, insecurity - no they are not turn ons...but what does he expect when he's basically telling you he has lost sexual interest in you?

 

If it were me at this point and at your age (with nothing else to lose or consider)...I would gather up my self-esteem and call him on it.

 

"I don't want to be with someone who does not want me. I do not want a threesome, or to jump through hoops trying to be the one thing you want and the one thing I cannot be: a different person. You are entitled to go out and screw whatever you want, you just aren't entitled to have me at the same time. You do have your freedom, as do I. You are free to go f**k somebody else, and I am free to not accept that. If you're not happy with me, then get the F**K out of my life, but quit blaming me for YOUR feelings that you apparently have shame over. No I do not admire your need for sexual variety but if it is what it is at least admit to it and quit trying to characterize it as being 'too close' to me. Quit trying to say that we have SO MUCH INTIMACY that it's depressing and boring. Are you F**KING KIDDING ME??????????????"

[Sal Paradise]

He is a promiscuous man in love with a monogamous girl. That is his problem. Welcome to the club, and I am oh so sorry.

 

 

I don't think a 21 year-old desiring multiple partners means he is promiscuous. At that age that is pretty normal. The truth is he is too young and too immature to be in a committed long term relationship. That doesn't mean however in a few years he won't be ready.

[shadowofman]

I don't think a 21 year-old desiring multiple partners means he is promiscuous. At that age that is pretty normal. The truth is he is too young and too immature to be in a committed long term relationship. That doesn't mean however in a few years he won't be ready.

 

The definition of promiscuousness is: desiring multiple partners. And yes, promiscuousness is completely normal. It is probably more common then a lack of promiscuousness. And the way I see it, committed relationships can exist along with promiscuousness. Commitment is not exclusively sexual monogamy, but can be an emotional bond. Something that most people are driven to as well as promiscuousness.

 

I agree, he will eventually cheat, leave her, or learn to stifle his promiscuousness. Which is more likely?

[luvstarved]

Well, at 21 he might be too immature to handle the situation or be ready for a committed monogamous relationship...but that does not mean that he should not be expected to treat her respectfully when he's called on it.

 

I mean, I can understand a guy wanting to do his thang at that age...and I can understand him feeling sheepish, guilty and not knowing how to handle breaking up so doing the stupid stuff he's been doing, trying to twist it into something a little different, trying to somehow make it sound correct and noble...or not his fault at least.

 

And it isn't "his fault". But - at 21 he should be at least mature enough to have his immaturity pointed out to him and be accountable for it. And by his immaturity I do not mean his desire for multiple partners...I think anyone is entitled to that personally as long as they are not professing to be monogamous at the same time, that's everyone's choice and tradeoff.

 

I mean the skirting and mischaracterization of the issue, trying to make it sound like they have "too much intimacy" for the sex to be good. WHA...?? He does not know how to say it and does not know how to get out of the relationship without sounding like an oversexed dirtbag...but it isn't fair of him to hint that it's HER problem, and I still think she should shine the light on him and make him grow up a little...and hopefully learn from the experience.

[shadowofman]

EXACTLY luvstarved. He is acting this "immature" way as you have called it, because his true nature of being promiscuous would be characterized as dogish.

 

Ultimately he should be saying, "I'm only 21. I am not really cool with monogamy, though I may have thought I could be cool with it. With you anyway I thought it was going to be possible. It's sad that I found someone that I have such an emotional and loving connection to, but sexually we are incompatible."

[JerseyShortie]

EXACTLY luvstarved. He is acting this "immature" way as you have called it, because his true nature of being promiscuous would be characterized as dogish.

 

 

Actually, I think what she said was that he is acting immature because he is only 21. And it isn't that being promiscuous is doggish. It is the desire to want to have it all, multiple partners, and one partner's love because there is nothing in that situation you have to committ to or give anything of yourself to.

[shadowofman]

And by his immaturity I do not mean his desire for multiple partners...I think anyone is entitled to that personally as long as they are not professing to be monogamous at the same time

 

Along with the fact that he is 21 and placing blame on her for his mistake.

 

And it isn't that being promiscuous is doggish. It is the desire to want to have it all, multiple partners, and one partner's love because there is nothing in that situation you have to committ to or give anything of yourself to.

 

Nothing doggish about wanting a loving relationship with one person and wanting to be promiscuous too. He just needs to find a girl that wants or at least is cool with the same. I completely reject this notion that commitment must include monogamy. I require emotional/life commitment in my relationships but I do not need sexual possession to go with it. Just love me forever and I'm happy.