Women define stalking

[themessenger]

I'm thirty years old and have been around the block a few times. At this point there are certain women that act a certain way, talk a certain way which makes them apear questionable. Yet some of these women have an uncanny ability to mwke me feel wrong for feeling that way. When I do some investigating then I get I am a stalker thrown at me when ofcourse I find what I thought was true. Now I dated girl who is constatnly going back and forth woth a guy who doesn't investigate coud care less or is just ignorant to wht she is doing or saying. Now does me confirming my suspisions make me a stalker? Is she more comfortable with him because she can get away with more ****? But in reality he doesn't care about her so he could care less what she does. in the past she was like"this guy doesnt ask me what i do, that guy doesn't ask me ehat i do" i said ok bye. Then months down the road she called me crying about how these guys use her for hewr body and she thinks she wants a boyfriend. I'm there for her for two months and now she we've had a falling out and i'm getting that gut feeling again. If she wants to see other peoploe fine. if she wants to just be with me fine. why do i feel like I'm in the wrong for wanting to know when someone is lieing to me? Why do I feel like this other guy is better then me for not caring?

[themessenger]

Its so good to hear you guys say that

[AussieJack]

.. why do i feel like I'm in the wrong for wanting to know when someone is lieing to me? Why do I feel like this other guy is better then me for not caring?

 

Because she has set "the frame" and you are being manipulated.

 

Read up on Histrionic Personality Disorder, Borderline Personality Disorder and Narcissistic PD. You will find her in all that chaff.

She is a looney tunes and YOU need to start thinking about why you willing to tolerate this faked-up drama for another microsecond.

[themessenger]

could you please define the frame. and why does she do all the things to me that she hated her exboyfriend for doing to her? why did she come to me when just dating didn't work for her and now she is going back

[NuTuDating]

First, dump her. Second, find someone new.

 

Two months of seeing two people is too long, IMO. She's a flake, or worse.

[eDave]

Listen to AussieJack.

 

Look up and study up on BPD, NPD and HPD. Get started here: www.bpdfamily.org/index.php#7 This takes you to the discussion forum for Borderline Personality Disorder. Read up there and you will swear they are talking about your GF. Look at the "Undecided" and you will see yourself. Look at the "Leaving" and you will see the extent of the damage and how loooong it affects you. Lastly, look at the "Staying" and you will practically beg them to leave, and you don't even know them. Looking into the last one will give you a look into your future should you stay in this. It will be daily hell. Daily, and sometimes hourly.

 

You sound like you are already living it. You don't have too. I lived 2 years in that hell and it nearly destroyed me. You will see plenty of posts from me there and you will know my story. It is not pretty. It makes ME sick when I read my older ones.

 

You will see YOUR life in there. Take my advise for what it is worth to you but you have an opportunity to avoid the hell the people on that forum did and are going through. None of the stories are made up. It is real life. You will learn that to some degree it IS your fault because you LET her do these things. You will also see that most of the things she convinced you was your fault were not. It is a sick, twisted world they live in. And they are totally oblivious to it.

 

They are parasites. Suck someone dry then move on to the next. But they know you will regroup so they will come back to you, the host, and suck you dry again. In keeping with the insanity of BPD, you will allow this over and over and over again until you say "NO! Not anymore!" A host is what you are. A host, nothing else.

 

There are no feelings of love no matter what she says or acts, and act is the key word.

 

Please think about this. It is true. Sorry to say.

 

All I offer you is the truth and it will set you free.

Edited March 12, 2008 by eDave

[Tony]

Please remember, if you recommend the commission acts of violence (in your advice to members on this site), which are illegal in all jurisdictions, you may be permanently banned from this site. Several people above gave that kind of advice and it's totally inappropriate in our forums. Regardless of what you're thinking, AT NO TIME should you ever even joke about someone committing an act of violence upon another regardless of what they may have done.

 

Your cooperation in advising peaceful, lawful resolutions of problems in these forums is very much appreciated.

[eDave]

Why is she doing to you what she hated from other guys? Projection and protection. She is doing it before it is done to her. OR, she couldn't do it to them because they ddin't let her. You do.

 

It's like joining a fraternity. When you are a pledge, you are treated like crap. Once you are in and the next pledge class comes through, it is always the most recent new members who deal the most abuse, because they can now.

 

You are paying for the sins of others. And since she is doing it, that is an indication of how deep it runs in her. It is now part of who she is. You have NO CHANCE to change that.

 

To be brutally honest: Look around and find your dignity and run like hell. And DO NOT look back. You will get sucked back in.

 

You may love, you may care. You may keep hoping that person you love is in there somewhere. That is why you are putting up with that. That person you met is gone, if she ever really existed.

 

I know BPD. I know NPD. I know what I am talking about. I am obligated to warn others away from the gates of hell. If you are already in it, I feel it necessary to reach in and pull you out.

Edited March 12, 2008 by eDave

[underpants]

Alright,

 

I admit. I only skimmed the first line of a couple of pages of your previous posts.

 

Firstly to answer the 'is it stalking' question. What actions are you taking to "find out the truth?".

 

Welcome communication and general and legal research is not stalking (IMO). Drive bys, hang ups, and hostile communication (accusations) might give her reason to be suspect. Contact beyond a request to stop is over the line.

 

Now then. From my brief skimming (and please correct me if I am out of line). You seem to be in some kind of competition with this other fellow. FLAG NUMBER 1. A good woman would never put you in a cross fire.

 

You should address within yourself why you need to compete with another dude for the affections of a woman. Also, what woman worth your time would play one against another? What (broken) part of yourself wants to win and what are you winning ...really?

 

Overall, it sounds like a toxic relationship.

 

Give yourself time away and look for a healthier approach and partner.

[themessenger]

wow thats some deep stuff dave, if your correct thats crazy stuff. I hope I'm not being paranoid about all this. but maybe thats part of being a victim of these people.

[NuTuDating]

OP,

 

She's a pssssssyyyyyyyyyyccho. Wants to eat the cake, have, it, too, and lick all the icing around the edges.

 

Dump her.

[themessenger]

Underpants I can't totaly say that its her fault because they are friends with the same friends. Then again who knows, she has other exes that contact her. I guess I have made acusations but thats only because I've caught her lieing in the past. And what I did to catch (going somewhere I thought I might catch her with him and did) you call tell me if thats going to far. I had to know that I wasn't going crazy. I don't want to attack her or lambaste her. Anyways that was a long time ago. shes come along way now but she still emails him is constant ly looking at his myspace page. And seems sneaky about it. for what? He called on valentines day tryed to get her back and it screwed with her emotions. i feel like if he can do that shes not over him. last weekend she wanted to try coke and i freaked because she used to give me crap about the people i hang out with. She used to accuse me of doing it which i don't she learned that now lol. then my niece is sick (I mean realt sick borderline!) the next weekend shes acting distant and doesn't have the curtosy to call and see how she is. so thats where the huge fallling out started. i said realy nasty things. and now i assume shes with him and feel bad for the things i said. anyways screw it your right its toxic.You know how theres always two sides to a story? I wonder if she came in and told her side would she persuade you guys in her way? I don't see how. I'm trying to give the full story

Edited March 12, 2008 by themessenger

[eDave]

NuTuDating summed up my "blog" very accurately I think.

[themessenger]

I don't know eDave some of these BPD cases i'm reading about are pretty extreme

[eDave]

Messenger. Lets look at the facts:

 

-- You were suspicious. Red flag.

-- You caught her with another again and again.

-- You caught her in lies. Many.

-- She is pissed at YOU because you found out. Projecting blame onto you.

-- She is ping-ponging between you and another guy

-- She goes to him for freedom, to you for feeling

-- She is "cheating" on you. And him (not that he cares right?)

-- She has feelings still for another. He tried and it ****ed her up

-- She wants to do drugs (guess what, my BPD ex was a coke addict. Coincidence? Read up on what I suggested and you will see. It's what they do. Mask their inner pain. Self medicate. She will soon bebouncing between you and the other guy. Her only true love with be the coke.

-- She has no empathy for you regarding your sister.

 

You are not being paranoid. These are the facts nice and bulleted for you. Put them on your fridge, make them your PC wallpaper.

 

And of course you are feeling maybe her actions are her fault. That's what BPD's and NCP's do dude!

 

You are willing to let her TERRIBLE behavior continue because you have convinced yourself that you have to take the bad with the good. That's OK. I did that too brother. It's a must to a certain extent. Especially as the dating pool gets smaller and the pullution level increases. But I have yet to hear you talk about the good. Know why? The bad is outweighing the good by a large margin.

 

Oh, and let me guess, the sex is out of this world right? I know it is. Another BPD characteristic. They know sex sets that hook. More manipulation as Aussie said. I would bet the other guy doesn't care because he knows what he's got. A crazy bitch who is great in the sack. He has removed his emotions. He is taking what is presented to him and will until she stops. He's using her. Serves her right. That is why she comes crying back to you with the "everyone just wants me for my body" bull****. You reap what you sow.

 

Seriously, the bouncing back and forth between guys? I am dealing with that with my 14 year old son.

Edited March 12, 2008 by eDave

[eDave]

OK. Read your post before this one. Did you read anything from me in there? It's just something to consider. You are here for advice. I/we are giving it to you. You are resisting. Some are simply saying dump her with no real explanation as to why and that doesn't help you. I am giving you sound reasons, by using YOUR words. Do what you think is right. But before I leave you to your own demise, remember this:

 

You are thinking with your heart. Start listening to your head. Your head is the stronger muscle and is protective of your heart.

 

In addition, your gut or conscience is God speaking to you. Listen!

 

Sorry for being harsh. I just want you to be armed with knowledge to fight this fight. You can thank me later.

Edited March 12, 2008 by eDave

[themessenger]

Wow dave your good! I'd be lieng to you if I said I wouldn't like another romp with her. Come to think of it though. I'm not sure if shes the best I've ever had. She is good. I just realy like it with her. And I kind of feel challenged as well. apparently shes a squirter and i havent seen her do that yet. we came close until we had our falling out. the sad thing is I wish i could feel for her the way he does. man dave, when i first met her she had sweet heart written all over her. Its when you get close to her you see the real her and not many people get to see that. If you met her you would be like, you have got to be kidding me.

Edited March 12, 2008 by themessenger

[eDave]

Dude I know (not the part about being good ). But about that; I speak from sheer experience. I have been on the front line. However, I wish I was never in that place that sent me looking for answers. I wish I didn't know what I know. I am glad I do now, but I wish I didn't HAVE to know.

 

Regarding your comment about sweet written all over her. Well, take a peek at my thread "42 and Dating Again". It tells of my apprehension towards sleeping with a woman I met overr the weekend. She had sweet written all over her face. But so did my ex at first.

 

So there I was in a pretty good situation and all I got were rememberences of the ex and how sweet she was and how sour she turned out to be. And speaking of sex as the hook, her wanting to sleep with me on the first night brought up memories of that door to hell. Memories of sex as the bait and hook.

 

I haven't divulged this in that thread as it just now came to me as to why I decided what I did, morals aside, so thanks.

 

Look man, you ARE going to go back to her. You ARE going to give it that one last shot either for the sex or for that opportunity to change her or for that opportunity to show her YOU have changed and as a result she will. You will hope that the other guy will get tired of it too, or she of him, leaving you as the one and only. You will. No biggie. Just heed what is being said to you here. Maybe work on removing the emotions, the rest will come.

 

Oh and my line:

 

And of course you are feeling maybe her actions are your fault.

 

I meant YOUR fault, not hers. It's never her fault. Does she apologize to you?

Edited March 12, 2008 by eDave

[AussieJack]

 

... She had sweet written all over her face. But so did my ex at first.

 

So there I was in a pretty good situation and all I got were rememberences of the ex and how sweet she was and how sour she turned out to be. And speaking of sex as the hook, her wanting to sleep with me on the first night brought up memories of that door to hell. Memories of sex as the bait and hook.

 

Women with BPD (or more correctly Axis 2 Cluster B) Personality Disorders commonly present as "sweeter than sweet" ..These are the "butter would not melt in her mouth" ladies or the delicate and feminine "china Doll " types . They usually start getting getting sexual very early in order to HOOK you in ,then the mindgames start, the lies and the cheating and the playing one man agianst another. Sound familiar ? If so you need to bail NOW.-

You are being warned by men who have been there with Satan's Daughter, so ignore us and regret later.

Edited March 12, 2008 by AussieJack

[eDave]

I will assume you are talking to Messenger and not me. Because believe me, I KNOW. The hard way unfortunately. If it was directed to me, go ahead and talk down to me all you want but it will never be worse than I did to myself when finally breaking free. I am still ****ed over the whole thing in just about every way. Again, I am not sure who you are addressing.

 

That being said. Dude, you have the best, most poignant advise around here. Nice job. Now that that is out of the way:

 

There is a joke that goes something like this, and I am paraphrasing:

 

3 men go to hell. The first two are so scared and fearful of satan. The 3rd is not. satan asks why he does not fear him. The 3rd responds "because I married your daughter. You can't possibly be worse"

Edited March 12, 2008 by eDave

[AussieJack]

I will assume you are talking to Messenger and not me. Because believe me, I KNOW. The hard way unfortunately.

 

Regards to you eDave, my comments were directed at the Messenger NOT you. Sorry if you thought otherwise...

You have obviously BEEN there with a BPD woman and you will recover eventually. You may need a "soul transplant" because the woman that you had surely almost destroyed the one that you had, Right ?

You and I know the signs and symptoms of these monsters at work .

Too bad the OP is not listening.

[eDave]

Aussie,

 

Cool! Thanks.

 

I am actually quite fine. A better person for it actually. She, on the other hand, not so much.

 

Messenger will get the message. Whether it be co-dependency or his own insecurities, he will get it.

 

Messenger, not intending to talk behind your back dude.

[SpanksTheMonkey]

I went thu the ops original post here haven't made it thu much else except the girl being called a flake by some.

 

Which I think is a little premature given the vagueness of the Op 1st post that being said and moving on.

 

I don't know about stalking but "finding out the truth" can mean a few different things?

 

If your following her when she goes out all the time with out her knowing and listing to her phone conversations then yes I'm sorry in my book that is stalking.

 

Wither or not your in a relationship or not yes its stalking on some level. Do you even have strong reason to suspect shes cheating on you?

 

Or are you just basing it on her past experiences with other men you have seen?

 

If thats so then you should have never gotten into a relationship with her unless you could give things a clean slate JMO on that one.

 

So do you actually have any hard proof? Cause if not then I hate to say but you sound a little paranoid and maybe controlling and thats issues that you have to work on not her so much.

[dreamergrl]

If you have to "investigate" over and over and over - that should be the sign to pack up and leave. She's not going to change - not for anyone. You'll move on, and she'll find another man to float with. It's kind of like an epidemic - she'll continue to spread herself through out men.

[themessenger]

i have proof spanks the monkey. It started with my gut and then I got the proof.

Edited March 12, 2008 by themessenger